Mark Penn: Obama Independent Support Would "Evaporate" In General Election

Election Central:

On a conference call with reporters just now, Hillary pollster Mark Penn sought to make the case for her electability by dredging up bad memories of the GOP and right-wing media's successful efforts to redefine Al Gore and John Kerry, arguing that Hillary wouldn't succumb to such tactics....

...Penn said that Hillary has "withstood" this process, while Obama would find that his independent support "would evaporate relatively quickly once he faced the Republicans." Penn added that the GOP "is already playing the national security card against Obama."

Read the whole story: Election Central

Comments

[Independent voter]

McCain had some independent appeal 8 years ago. Although I voted for Gore, I gave money to McCain to fight against Bush.

Since 2000 McCain has lost all of his independent appeal with his votes on the war, his Bush lap dog status, his bomb Iran humor and other things.

Mark Penn is a fat idiot and this scare tactic bullshit doesn't float.

[Witchitalineman]

Clinton's first mistake was to pay this slob almost $5 million to run her campaign. I don't think these establishment dems and repubs get it, the electorate wants a change not more rhetoric from politicians!

[slow2]

Wlineman -- Billary wasted her 5mil on this one, didn't she? What a nasty guy and what a way to try to undermine the general election...Mark Penn needs to get a real job, like the rest of the working folks in the US...

[Dorian]

I cheer every time this guy comes out to speak for Hillary. He's definitely worth $5 million to Barack Obama.

[ProgressiveNotLiberal]

It is now up to 8million blown on this mental midget.

[SShaw490]

I keep seeing so many posts expressing concern about Obama being swift-boated by the Republicans. Let me just add something to that conversation:

Obama's campaign theme is prefectly suited to blunting those attacks. His theme is a new kind of politics withouth the devisiveness and personal attacks of the past 20 years; so the first time one of those ads hits TV, Obama can take the most offensive segment of the ad, put it into his own ad, and say, "This is a lie, and it's slander - and this is exactly the kind of politics our movement is determined to change" - followed by Obama doing his famous, "There is no liberal America, there is no conservative America, there is only the United States of America..."

In short, Obama's campaign theme itself has a way of automatically innoculating itself from slander attacks.

[Trollstakeyourmeds]

I think I know one direstion they are going to come at him from. And I am beginning to see it even on this site. David Brooks wrote in his editorial today (at least it's in the paper in the Atl., today), making fun of the Obama campaign starting to look like a cult. He pretended to be doing an interview, in which he made the statement that he's not sure how Obama gets that band of Cherubs to carry him in to give his speeches. This is the second editorial I've seen in the last couple of days moving in the same direction. He even said that soon we will be seeing people in orange robes at the airports, singing, playing tamborines and trying to sell flowers in "his name". I don't believe there is anything to the Rezko scandal, but I do think they'll paint his supporters as some type of loonie bin inhabitants.

[SShaw490]

That depends on how many of his supporters there are. Writers won't want to paint 50% of America as a bunch of loonies - assuming they'd like to continue their careers as writers. And if Obama's supporters are maybe a bit over-enthusiastic (especially if view through over-cynical eyes), that's because he really is a movement and attracts lots of young people that hold a lot of energy. By Brooks' standards, then they should have just fenced off the Super Bowl stadium, those people were acting like they were part of some kind of cult...

If Obama gets the nomination, or even keeps going with this wave of momentum, those charges will fade away. Like I said in another thread, winning solves everything.

[Dorian]

Yah, I've even heard the "cult" thing from Edwards supporters who are bitter about that loss. A few debates and McCain will look very old and tired by comparison. The opposition will be throwing everything but the kitchen sink, but I don't think any of it will stick.

[Vinkaye]

I would remind you that Democrats thought we had a lock pitting a decorated Vietnam vet against a collection of draft dodgers, and look how that turned out. Do not assume that Senator Obama is innoculated from anything.

[Troubledgoodangel]

Obama is a neophyte and a gringo. As such, he will be tested by the enemies of the United States on the second or third day of office (I grant him one day of peace). How he will react? He will be forced to reinstate the draft! He will draft into service all the young absentmindedees who voted him into office!

[PigsOnSoma]

Would a draft be so bad??? Think about it. If we had a draft even in peace time, perhaps the public would pay a tad bit more attention to what's happening around us. We wouldn't give the government carte blanche control over our kids. They might acutually have to answer to us.

No, administrations prefer mercs. If you pay attention, perhaps you'd understand we're using as many of them as we can in Iraq. Best of all, they're off the books.

[SShaw490]

How ridiculous can you get? "If we nominate Obama, we'll get a draft"? Sheesh...

[wm1066]

He got elected in the Chicago political arena.
It ain't for sissies. He HAS been tested.
What amazes me is his ability to tune in on what most americans need right now...hope... And he isn't running a Rove campaign.

[TruthLives]

Obama's candidacy, movement, rock star status, is nothing more than another cult as is "Scientology"...... to trade on your mothers pain, suffering, and death for votes is just about as low as a candidate can go.....

[Maxiesid]

As I have been reading through the comments lately I have begun to notice something. Does anyone else get a feeling of deja vu? Didn't we see this happening before somewhere? Let me think.. Oh Yeah.. I remember.. Howard Dean-a neophyte, rock star status, bringing in huge grass roots support, outdoing the DLC pick John Kerry... Kerry was so reviled that he even had to loan his own campaign money..Think I am lying..QUOTE: "Democratic hopeful John Kerry has loaned his campaign $850,000 and will mortgage his Boston home to come up with more campaign cash, marking the first time a candidate has tapped his personal fortune in the 2004 presidential race. The Massachusetts senator, once considered the front-runner in the Democratic field, has been struggling to overcome Howard Dean's political and financial lead in the race. 12/18/2003 http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/2003-12-18-finance-kerry-campaign_x.htm

That was it.. All these comments are recycled Dean comments!!!! I recognize them now, doesn't anyone else? Good luck with this ploy again.

[Independent voter]

Man, if you get deja vu from Howard Dean, you're going to absolutely flip out when 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue is turned into a corrupt whore house again by the dark queen and the wandering weenie.

[leahlex]

Yes that is as low as you can go. If he wins then I will vote for McCain and i will get all the people i can get to vote for McCain.

[OhPlease2007]

I am no fan of Penn, and I am not voting for Hillary, McCain, or Obama, but I have to agree with Penn about 'evaporating Independent voter support for Obama. The *ONLY* reason Obama is currently leading McCain in polls, is because the media-at-large has given Obama a free-pass and has not objectively vetted out Obama's complete political record. "If" Obama wins the Dem nomination, The GOP *will* vet-out Obama's complete record, cherry picking on the right-to-life, family-values, and national security issues, that appeals to Independent voter support, ... in McCain's favor. Right-to-life (Obama's "NO" vote in Illinois state senate of Born Alive Infants Protection Act), family values(Obama's "present" vote on keeping sex-shops away from public schools), national security(Obama's support in giving illegal aliens drivers licenses. Right or wrong, it doesn't matter ... the GOP grassroots, in the end, will successfully paint Obama as being too far to the left, and will successfully peel away critically needed Independent votes, who will end up voting for McCain; Obama would lose in the general election. Obama offers more red-meat to rabid GOP staple issues, than Hillary does.

[sparkandy]

I agree with you. I'm a progressive Republican who hates Bush and what he's done to our country. I'm actually thinking about voting Democrat this time around, but not if it's Obama. The Democrats are going to self immolate again this year, even more spectacularly than they did in '04. I'm not the only progressive Republican in this position, and the Independents are in the same boat, too. When all's said and done, McCain will be our next President thanks to the Democratic Party's ability to pick the greater of two evils.

[NoFactsJustTruth]

Great specifics, wing-nut. Try giving your "greater of two evils" definition or it's just troll farts in a wind.

[zooster]

Right - they'll swift-boat BO. That's why the Dems have to play safe and bet on an old warhorse like Hillary. She was WAY not my favorite but face it, she has survived a lot of right-wing malice. She's been raked over the coals already. BO has scandals the MSM and GOP are just saving in the closet for the real election (his slumlord pal Rezko is now in jail, and there is the Larry Sinclair cocaine orgy video)

The people ARE sick of Repukecans, but they are also easily manipulated, and the right wing hatchet jobs are expert at that. If it weren't possible to fool most of the people most of the time, how else would they have gone for Obamania?
See also "Why Obama is a Sure Loser – and the Prelude to a McCain-Lieberman Disaster" - at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOnFreedom/message/4184

[Giglawyer]

You Hillary shills need to stop the circle jerk. We aren't buying it. If you think the GOP will be tougher on Obama, you are fooling yourself. They have been waiting for Hillary. They will have her hidden papers from the National Archives (with Bush in charge, no problem). They will have the sealed text from teh Barrett Report, and that's just the icing on their cake.

[Maxiesid]

Ohplease, sparkandy, zooster....just thought I would point something out that you must not be aware of. All people have to do is click on the "see profile" beside your name and we can read every comment you have made before. So, when you say "I am undecided" or "I am thinking of voting democrat this time, but not if it is Obama" it tends to make people actually look to see your comment history. After browsing your comment histories, I would be surprised if you aren't all Clinton campaign staffers. It is hard to hard to tell that you are Republicans and Independents from all the posting you have done blasting Obama and supporting Hillary.

[Dorian]

Oh, peelllllzzz, do you know what Bill Clinton has been doing for the last 7 years? I'll guarantee you that the Republicans do. Once we hear that and see re-runs of the Clinton years, she would be toast.

[Justtellthetruth]

OOOOHHHH!!­!!ooooOOOO­OHHHH!!!

The Scary, terrifying republicans, already having failed on Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, the economy, and health care, are going to be SO persuasive and NASTY that a GOOD candidate, a smart and Principled candidate (Obama) could never stand up to them. No, it has to be a sellout hack who has pretty much voted LIKE a republican on all foreign policy issues such as Hillary. In fact, she'll be JUST as happy to send your kids into the foxholes of Iran and Iraq as John McCain would, because she shares just about every one of his and Joe Liebermans views on the Middle East, and will F**k it up just as badly as they would, given the chance.

Don't belive this BS for a minute. Hillary made EVERY mistake that the republicans did (Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, underestimating the threat of Pakistan) and ALSO completely SCREWED up health care so badly on a political and logistical level that it was scuttled for almost 2 decades.

She DID NOT stand up to this. Her Husband was impeached, and she impotently screamed about a vast right wing conspiracy when it came to light that her husband liked oval office head.

She Ran almost unopposed in New York, so no EXPERIENCE there.

Her ultimate response to the beating she took as first lady? She became a republican (again, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, wrong on Pakistan, and shares CRAZY views on maintaining Jerusalem settlements that are even further right than most republicans).

Is this standing up or FOLDING COMPLETELY?

[PigsOnSoma]

Thank you. People tout her experience, but she has a record that only backs political ambition, starting with her great work for health care. She's always blown with the wind to stay afloat.

With Murdoch and corporate America in her pockets, she is bought and paid for, and it's not by the people.

[zooster]

The MSM are setting up the Dems for a fall. They're fostering this Obamania hype. Clinton has solid support in the states and with the groups that the Dems need to win - big urban states, women, blue collar workers. She's ahead of Obama 2:1 in the electoral college! And women outnumber AA's 4:1.

The MSM ignore all this because BO is the straw puppet they can easily swift-BOat once he gets the nomination. The Obama phenomenon is straight out of the color revolutions and CIA / NED people-power-coup bag of tricks used to topple left-leaning governments abroad, perfected by the Albert Einstein Institution. See http://onlinejournal.org/Special_Reports/031905Mowat-1/031905mowat-1.html

[Justtellthetruth]

African Americans make up 13.3 percent of the population, dimwit. If you think that they alone are supporting Obama, your delusional. Women, as it turns out, are not necessarily as blinly fond of Hillary either. He's winning by between 10 and 50 percent in the states he's taking.

Hes going to Pummel McCain (Hillary and McCain don't have anything to argue about, as their both republicans) and go on to take this Nation back towards greatness and preeminent world standing.

[Trollstakeyourmeds]

Our paper today showed Hillary ahead of McBarelySane 42% to 41%, and Obama ahead of him 48% to 42%. Close, but still ahead no matter which candidate we choose.

[OhPlease2007]

"The MSM are setting up the Dems for a fall. They're fostering this Obamania hype."

Obama told the M$M that his Illinois records were thrown out, and the M$M bought it: hook, line, and sinker; they gave Obama a free-pass, and the Republicans are loving the M$M for it! Meanwhile, the New York Times is reporting that the GOP is pouring through Obama's complete record, and making a movie about it, to be released if Obama wins the Dem nomination. Until that happens, the Repubs have been in 24/7 scare-tactic mode in dropping Hillary's name, trying to scare Dems -&- Independents away from voting for Hillary; it is a GOP tissue of lies. The Republicans want to run against Obama, not Hillary. They know Obama will be easier to pick-off in the general, because, once the GOP vets Obama's complete record(should Obama win the Dem nomination), the GOP knows that the Independents will see Obama as being too far to the left, and will end up throwing their support to John McCain, leading McCain to win the presidency. The Republican base is lying low, giving the impression that they are not united, don't have the necessary registered voters, and wish to run against Hillary. But nothing could be further from the truth. If the Dems plan on relying on the '06 GOP apathy to see them through, they are in for a very rude awakening. The only chance the Dems have in winning the presidency, is to run the most moderate Dem presidential candidate, and that *is* Hillary Clinton; Obama is too far to the left.

[zooster]

"The Republicans want to run against Obama, not Hillary."
Exactly. Obama is floating up like a balloon, and they will pop him like one too.
The media hype, the fake polls, the swarming adolescents, are all stock in trade of the color revolutions the CIA has run in many countries.
Obama's top puppetmaster Zbig Brzezinski is an old hand at this. The US Democratic primary is just their latest exercise.
But BO's leftiness is fake too. IF he wins, he will be working for Wall Street. His top economic adviser Liebman wants to privatize social security!
Either way, a vote for Obama is a vote for 4 more years of fascism.

[OtayPanky]

Yes, well - after Mark Penn has finished milking Hillary and driving her campaign into a ditch with his strategery, he'll be looking for a new gig.

May I make a suggestion?

How about an MTV show, PIMP MY CAMPAIGN?

It can be just like the PIMP MY RIDE show - except it will feature sorry ass politicos whose campaigns are barely limping along.

Mark will "pimp it up" - and the candidate will drive happily off into the sunset, and victory.

Or mebbe not.

[user168]

It takes wisdom, compassion, and courage to vote "no" on the Iraq War. It also takes wisdom, compassion, and courage to run a country! America wants nothing less.

America wants TRUTH -

WISDOM, COMPASSION, AND COURAGE

America wants OBAMA

So be it that our YOUTH sees HOPE in TRUTH...

"LIVE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN THE WORLD."

"Always aim at complete harmony of thought and word and deed."

"A nation''s culture resides in the hearts and in the soul of its people."

GO! OBAMA, TRUTH IS THE NATION, THE WORLD, THE HOPE!

[Trollstakeyourmeds]

He didn't vote "no" on the war. He was not in the Senate at the time the vote was taken. He was in his state senate. He has already said, that had he been in the U.S. Senate, he's not sure how he would have voted. Having said that, it would be interesting to see him debate McBarelySane on their completely opposite stance. Finally the majority of the citizens of this country would maybe get our voices heard. 70% of us are against this war!!!

[user168]

When a person vote to support the Iraq War, she/he is either ignorant with no insight, has absolutely no compassion, or is a selfish coward, or, all of the above. Any other reason?

"Hell is This Thing called War!"

“How could man rejoice in victory and delight in the slaughter of men, women, and children?”

Is this what Hillary think is justice for those that are helpless, like women and children that have nothing?

Does Hillary really need to live through a war to taste Hell? No wonder she wants to bring up the sex issue so she can fight and create war that divides the country, and gives no peace to our children. She and Bill are the worst example ever to all youth. They are world pain!

Do you know why Hillary is being "hated" by not thousands, but tens and hundreds of thousands? I'll give you my reason: no one wants children to grow up without moral courage and standard like the Clintons. And no one likes the Clinton's "do whatever it takes at all cost to secure self-gain" attitude.

[avicenna]

Regardless of who is running against McCain, I will risk sounding politically incorrect in stating that it would be adverse to everyone's interests to have someone of McCain's advanced age in such a stressful position for another 4 years - at the end of his tenure he will be 75 years old. I've already noticed the decline in his sharpness over the last few years when he labours through jokes in his speeches. It is known that men after the age of 66 have significant shrinkage in both lobes of the brain. The frontal and temporal lobes control thinking, planning and memory. And greater shrinkage is seen in the parieto-occipital region of men which is located at the back of the brain and is responsible for thinking as well as integration of sensory information. To solve America's stack of problems that are a direct product of archaic modes of thinking, there is a real need for a sharp new perspective and mind.

[sparkandy]

Hey, I'm old - not as old as McCain, but pretty old. I'd prefer a younger person in the WH, too, but not someone who's all style and no substance. If Obama's the best the younger people can do, I'll stick with the old guy. And believe me, I'm not the only one. Our brains haven't shrunk to the point where we want to throw away what's left of this country.

[JasonEverettMiller]

It obviously has shrunk to that point if you can't do a simple Google search to find out all about Barack Obama and his 20 years of public service.

Barack is all style and no substance? Again, based on the many people who actually KNOW him, that doesn't seem to be a consensus opinion.

He has a long legislative record that you can look up. His history informed his answers in this 52-minute uncut interview with the editorial board of the SF Chronicle that was very illuminating, even for an Obama supporter: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?o=0&f=/c/a/2008/01/18/MNSNUH8DR.DTL.

There is all the substance anyone real person could ever need. Can you confront your obvious bias and prejudice against "our" candidate?

Obama '08!

[NewFrontier]

That could have been such a pretty headline with the word "off" added to the extant, "Obama beats McCain in the polls."

[lungfish]

Well, this is part of the reason why HRC isn't doing so well these days....
I am an Independant who has been fully repulsed by the GOP - I would vote for a dung beetle before I would vote for a Republican anything at this point.
I gave HRC a chance, how fashionable and trendy and oh-so-modern it would be to have a female president, I thought. But then the discussion of her vote for war authorization and her inability to own it proved to me that denial isn't just a Neocon trait.
Obama will probably get my vote but ONLY because I can't find a way to hurt both parties for their failings to defend the Constitution.
The Dems co-opted the peace movement in the most cynical play on its rank and file that I have ever seen. They aren't the slightest bit interested in confronting a corrupt Executive branch and DOJ so I have to wonder what the point is in voting for anyone?

In any case, Marky is definitely "pulling a Rove" in that he doesn't understand the situation on the ground at all.

[sparkandy]

Choice of lesser of two evils again, isn't it? I'm a progressive Republican who hates Bush and his Born Again brigade. But Obama's a bridge too far for me. Clinton, maybe, but never Obama. Much as I hate to, I'll probably vote for McCain as my lesser of two evils.

[Trollstakeyourmeds]

LOL...a "dung beetle". That pretty much defines the whole republican party doesn't it.

[ReasonIsMyReligion]

Things I believe:

I believe a sound ENERGY policy is more vital to our national security than WEAPONS SYSTEMS.

I believe a responsible BUDGET is more vital to our national security than burdening our grandkids with INSURMOUNTABLE DEBT.

I believe that teaching our children SCIENCE is more vital to our national security than teaching them RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE.

I believe that JUSTICE is more vital to our national security than STRENGTH.

I believe that FAIRNESS in our tax code is more vital to our national security than TAX RATES.

I believe that HEALTH CARE is more vital to our national security than the INSURANCE INDUSTRY.

I believe that ACCOUNTABILITY is more vital to our national security than a UNITARY EXECUTIVE.

I believe that the United States CONSTITUTION is more vital to our national security than SIGNING STATEMENTS.

These things I do believe.