Max Follmer

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Max Follmer

The Huffington Post

2008 election, 2008 Elections, huffpolitics, Barack Obama Florida, Barack Obama Michigan, Clinton Florida, Clinton Michigan, Cost of revoting, Democratic Presidential candidate, florida delegates, Florida Primary, Hillary Clinton FLorida, Hillary Clinton Michigan, Michigan delegates, Michigan Primary, New elections in Florida, New elections in Michigan, Obama Florida, Obama Michigan
2008 election, 2008 Elections, huffpolitics, Barack Obama Florida, Barack Obama Michigan, Clinton Florida, Clinton Michigan, Cost of revoting, Democratic Presidential candidate, florida delegates, Florida Primary, Hillary Clinton FLorida, Hillary Clinton Michigan, Michigan delegates, Michigan Primary, New elections in Florida, New elections in Michigan, Obama Florida, Obama Michigan

Price Tag Precludes Re-Vote In Michigan And Florida

February 11, 2008 06:23 PM


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The controversial Florida and Michigan Democratic primaries will most likely not be rescheduled, as some activists have recently demanded, according to sources in both the national and state parties who spoke with The Huffington Post.

The sources claimed that neither state party nor the Democratic National Committee had the sufficient financial resources to restage the primaries and that any money raised for such an effort would be better spent on the general election.

When both states defied DNC rules on early voting and held their primaries on an advanced calendar last month, the national party ruled that delegates elected from both states would not be seated at the party convention in late summer.

But in the midst of the neck-and-neck race between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton for the Democratic nomination, a suggestion has emerged from diverse quarters that voters in Florida and Michigan should return to the polls in order to empower delegates that could be seated at the convention.

Mark Bubriski, spokesman for the Florida Democrats, said the state party is not planning any alternative contest, and that party officials would respect the votes of the 1.7 million Floridians who turned out for the Jan. 29 primary.

The minimum price tag for a new round of balloting in Florida - such as a vote-by-mail contest - would be $4-5 million, a sum that is beyond the reach of Florida Democrats, according to a source familiar with state party finances. The price tag for a new primary could be as high as $18 million.

After the DNC stripped Florida of its delegates to the national convention as punishment for defying party rules, the major candidates all refused to campaign in the state.

But Floridians still went to the polls, and Hillary Clinton defeated Barack Obama in the state's Jan. 29 primary 50 percent to 33 percent. After the polls closed on election night, Clinton flew to the Sunshine State to hold a victory celebration.

Some supporters of Barack Obama claimed a foul, arguing that Clinton should not be exploiting a victory in an election in which the candidates agreed not to campaign and when the delegates would be invalidated.

Few observers predicted that the Democratic race would be as tight following the Super Tuesday contests as it is today, and large delegations from Michigan and Florida could swing the pendulum in favor of one candidate. As the Democratic contest has escalated, so has the controversy as to how the delicate question of enfranchising the voters from the two renegade states should be settled.

Democratic observers have long suspected that whoever the eventual nominee was would move to seat the Michigan and Florida delegations, rather than appear to disrespect two pivotal states ahead of what could be a heated general election.

The current delegate count from the Associated Press gives Clinton 1,136 delegates to 1,108 for Obama.

Stacie Paxton, a spokeswoman for the Democratic National Committee in Washington confirmed that party rules allow for two courses of action in trying to seat the delegates from Michigan and Florida: the states could hold new votes - which would be paid for by the individual state parties - or they could appeal to the convention credentials committee, which will meet this summer ahead of the August convention

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- kgb999 I'm a Fan of kgb999 23 fans permalink

Wow, over 100 comments and only 2 on topic!

I agree with a previous poster: compared to the obscene amounts of money being spent on the campaigns - the cost of an extra primary seems rather small. EACH campaign is spending in the 100 million+ range - before the general election even starts. Saying that there isn't enough money seems like BS.

There are a bunch of sub-plots and hurt feelings, but the DNC and the State party officials should work it out and get an unassailable vote taken! (if possible)

It would actually be WELL worth the money - the PR line: "Even though the REPUBLICAN legislature stole your votes - and gave up half their own to do do it - the DEMOCRATS will make sure your vote counts!" Then play up the fact that republicans only gave their supporters "half representation" during the entire general election campaign!

The publicity would far exceed anything $25-30M could purchase and would give a huge boost to Democrat's visibility much closer to the general election in two rather important states (something that is being lost in the States' moronic race to have the earliest primary).

Of course, I'm not sure it's the money. The friggin logistics on something like this would be a NIGHTMARE.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:47 PM on 02/13/2008
- Bobleblah1 I'm a Fan of Bobleblah1 21 fans permalink

What is going on in Florida and Ohio?
They have been at the center of every election fraud claim for 8 years. What is wrong with these fucking people?

I think there needs to be a serious probe into the election boards of these two states. How is it possible that the same two states over and over are the central players in robbing the people of any trust in the electoral process?
If Hillary decides to make this race a legal spectacle(WHICH SHE WILL), Florida and Ohio will be right there, helping her destroy this entire process and aid republicans chances at the white house.
what is wrong with these people that they cant follow the rules, read ballots, certify voting machines, stop election fraud by Deibolt, or notice mass voter fraud by Bush Cheney in 2004?

Its like someone planned this in advance.
The preponderance of evidence involving these two states is beyond troubling and needs to be exposed.
Who made the decisions to move the primaries up? What candidates are those officials supporting? This is shaping up to be an absolute circus.
Can you imagine how outraged Obama supporters are going to be if Hillary wins using Bush florida 2000 tactics?

this is going to get really fucking ugly.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:47 PM on 02/12/2008
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How are you drawing Ohio into an issue involving Michigan and Florida? Ohio voted out our corrupt State Attorney General. This year's election should be fair.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:10 PM on 02/12/2008
- bccity I'm a Fan of bccity 3 fans permalink

Why would Hillary use use Bush tactics? The people voted and there does not seem to be a problem with the count so lets just recognize the right of the voters and count them. Oh, more voted for Hillary than Obama, well boo hoo. Nobody campaigned so it was an even race so stop all of the whining. Nobody cares if you are upset because all you do is bitch about Hillary picking on your poor little "yes we can" boy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:09 PM on 02/12/2008

At least in Florida, half the blame rests with the state party and half with the DNC.

When it became clear that the Republicans in the state legislature would not allow any change to the primary date, the matter was out of the state party's hands.

The DNC needs to consider some method of allowing the voices of Florida Democrats to be represented and it's very unfair to force us to accept the results of 1/29, since most Democrats never thought they had a voice in the matter.

The state party and the DNC need to come up with some way of sharing the costs of caucuses, whatever.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:41 PM on 02/12/2008
- bccity I'm a Fan of bccity 3 fans permalink

Just curious but would you be talking caucus reruns if Obama had received the most votes?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:12 PM on 02/12/2008

What do you think: the new President abolishes superdelegates as the first Presidential act on day one?
http://www.ondayone.org/

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:37 PM on 02/12/2008
- stlrfan I'm a Fan of stlrfan 2 fans permalink

Do any of you folks think the Dems can win in Nov without Fl. and Mich. Howard Dean should seat the delegations then resign for creating the biggest faux pas in political history.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:26 PM on 02/12/2008

Dems already lost Florida when it became clear that McCain would be the Rep nominee. Older voters make up a huge part of any state's electorate, but Florida is astronomical.

The Clinton-NY thing could help her some, but I doubt it'd be enough to tackle McCain.

Michigan, don't know - maybe African-Americans in Detroit would offset suburban and rural voters. That one might be up for grabs. If Obama wants MI, he needs to make himself more of a friend to working class Americans - perhaps by pulling the US out of NAFTA, GATT and WTO. He won't, but it'd be quite a statement.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:36 PM on 02/12/2008
- EinChicago I'm a Fan of EinChicago 35 fans permalink

Yeah. because alieanting 1.7 million voters in Florida, a state where literally 1000 dem voters can mean the difference between a McCain or dem presidency is a GREAT idea.

If just 1 percent of those Florida voters decide not to vote in Novemeber because of being disenfranchised, that's 17,000 votes that the dem candidate won't get.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:24 PM on 02/12/2008

MAX FOLLMER - YOU ARE NOT HONEST.

"After the polls closed on election night, Clinton flew to the Sunshine State to hold a victory celebratio­n." She was in Florida before this for a photo op and "fundraising" on 1/27.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:39 AM on 02/12/2008

She was in Florida many times as was Obama. Fund-raising was not precluded under the agreement with the DNC.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:37 PM on 02/12/2008

BUT not the day before in a carefully choreagraphed manner. i don't know if obama should be the nominee, but the sad way in which hillary followers are so blind to the truth is disgusting. reminds me of the repubs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:48 PM on 02/12/2008
- cambio I'm a Fan of cambio 4 fans permalink

Hey, they broke the rules, tried cutting in line, if they are just allowed to seat their delegates as is, there will be total chaos in the Democratic party since no one will respect the rules of the DNC, and it will be a giant F-you to the 48 states that actually followed the rules. Not to mention Hillary essentially ran unopposed in both contests, so the results were in no way fair. A revote is the only way in which everyone wins, but if they can't do that, then they shouldn't seat them at all, because to do so would be the worst possible solution. The party leaders knew exactly what the consequences would be and did it anything, this is on their heads an no one elses.

Hopefully Obama can rack up enough of a delegate lead that Michigan and Florida will become moot, that is the only bloodless way out of this that I can see..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:32 AM on 02/12/2008
- bccity I'm a Fan of bccity 3 fans permalink

"Not to mention Hillary essentially ran unopposed in both contests". --- Bull shit dude, Obama was on the Florida ballot just like Hillary was. Neither campaigned so it was an even contest. Just seat the delegates and stop whining. The only problem here is with the Obama supporters, but then who is surprised by that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:26 PM on 02/12/2008
- Macready I'm a Fan of Macready 64 fans permalink

since both states defied DNC rules . . . that is it . . . they knew what they were doing . . . so tough they don't get to be seated at the Democratic National Convention .. . they made their decision . . .

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:58 AM on 02/12/2008

Look, the Clintons don't like playing by the rules. Why should this be any different. It's called "winning at all costs". It's also called "scorched earth". The Clintons, unfortunately, are 50 + 1 Democrats.

The bottom line: MICHIGAN AND FLORIDA VIOLATED DEMOCRATIC PARTY RULES. They were repeatedly told of the consequences. If the Clintons are fooling enough to pursue this, they will only have themselves to blame for a huge Republican victory this fall -- not only the presidency but down the entire ticket -- thus sealing the demise of our democracy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:31 AM on 02/12/2008
- bccity I'm a Fan of bccity 3 fans permalink

Boo Hoo, the sky is falling.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:28 PM on 02/12/2008
- mrJJ I'm a Fan of mrJJ 23 fans permalink

Let them caucuss those 2 states... allow it to be done on a Sunday... no BS exscuses about work, traffic etc..

The Dem state Party bosses of those FL & MI screwed up... they both had 30 days to follow the rules

DNC Strips Florida Of 2008 Delegates
No Convention Slots Unless Later Primary Is Set

Sunday, August 26, 2007; Page A01

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/25/AR2007082500275.html?hpid=topnews


Judge OKs DNC sanctions over Fla. primary

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2007-12-05-florida-primary_N.htm

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:41 AM on 02/12/2008
- JackWOrf I'm a Fan of JackWOrf 10 fans permalink

The Democratic candidates and the DNC don't have the money? DON'T HAVE THE MONEY??? Obama was just BRAGGING about raising 7 million dollars in TWO DAYS. Hillary raised 10 million dollars in ONE WEEK.

And THAT pays for a new FULL-BLOWN ELECTION. $17 million dollars.

And what else are the candidates going to spend the money on? Advertisements pimping out mothers and daughters? Advertisements pimping out JFK?

It is about time that the DNC admit that they made a HUGE mistake, and take the opportunity to correct it now.

Otherwise, this is never going to go away. And if Obama manages to STEAL the election by IGNORING Hillary's MASSIVE victories in Florida and Michigan, he will be SPIT ON when he campaigns down here in Florida!!!





It takes ONE WEEK of the candidates fund raising.

Is there any CONCEIVABLE reason for not doing this??? Are you OUT of YOUR MIND?

Certainly, if Obama takes the nomination without a revote, he won't have a prayer. If you think that Floridians were pissed after 2000, that's nothing compared to THIS crap from the DNC.

Rules? What f**king rules justify DISENFRANCHISING 1.7 MILLION Floridians and another million Michigonians.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:05 AM on 02/12/2008
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It is quite easy to win "Massive" victories when no one else is on the ballot, Integrity thy name is not Hillary.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:37 AM on 02/12/2008
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Fortunately, Florida and Michigan will not be needed to secure the win for Obama.

The country is speaking out Loud and Clear that we want Barack to be our nominee.

The Super Delegates will have no choice but to adhere to the wishes of the people, this movement is on the march and there is no stopping it now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:42 AM on 02/12/2008

Seqoiabison are you from Florida? obviously not... All 7 democratic candidate's names were on the ballot in Florida.
The truth is, probably most of us as voters are NOT willing to forfeit our right to vote, despite the fact that our party (and state) is run by a bunch of idiots. This whole scenario being played out is practically unbelievable in it's stupidity. Most of us were probably pitting hope against hope that all the powers that be would come to their senses and allow Florida to have their delegates. It's funny - despite all
downplay from media pundits the turnout of democratic voters were about on par with Republican turnout in Florida. I think we made it loud and clear that we want our voices heard. And no democratic candidate had an advantage over any other. NO SIGNS - even at the polls had been posted - NO ADS - but we do have internet and television down here - even newspapers, so we are wll aware of who the candidates are.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:10 AM on 02/12/2008
- JUSTME I'm a Fan of JUSTME 17 fans permalink

I remember you, JackWOrf. You were on here a couple of days ago spewing all kinds of vile racist garbage. I knew it was you when you used the word "disenfranchising" because you used it over and over last time around. It was like a child who learns a new word and just wants everyone to know it: Disenfranchising, disenfranchising, disenfranchising.

I think the idea that the next occupants of the White House are going to be African American is making you loco, guy. I can literally imagine the spittle dripping down the corner of your foaming mouth as I read your rant. Relax, dude. You're going to give yourself a stroke.

Maybe you'd be happier with the rest of the nut jobs in the Republican Party. If you haven't heard, they're looking for a few good bigots to add to their Base.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:38 AM on 02/12/2008

What would happen if Obama were to win Texas and Ohio and Hillary "got" Michigan and Florida? How many delegates will she get (by any means necessary) from those two disputed States as opposed to how many would Obama get from winning Texas and Ohio?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:06 PM on 02/12/2008

JackWOrf:
You seemed to have overlooked that maybe another 1.7 million Floridians (including me)refused to vote because they had been informed that no delegates would be awarded, anyway. In your scenario, enfranchising your 1.7 million would be disenfranchising mine and would be an abysmal failure to advance, or even demonstrate, democracy in action, in the Democratic Party. It would be far worse for Michiganians.
WintonyMay.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:27 AM on 02/12/2008
- ntmessage I'm a Fan of ntmessage 38 fans permalink

Unfortunately every argument and rationalization on this subject so far is both inferior and intellectually dishonest. The obvious solution is to count all votes - all delegates and all voters – as their conscience wish and as they are. You can also count all delegates OR all voters. Not some delegates and some voters and some states. No more and no less. This is the only “democratic” solution that is both “ethical” and does not disenfranchise voters who have already voted. The current endless permutations will only give life to additional “corruption” issues with the Democrats. It is amazing every rationalization to the contrary continue to be oblivious to this obvious blind spot and fundamental flaw in objective thought.

Keeping this issue unresolved helps Obama since objectively he is way behind, but the media and the campaign can portray him as the leader and thus increase his non-objective lead.

What this all means is that the objective best candidate thus far against McCain may not win the primary. The flawed truth in the primary will be stunningly evident in the presidential election since that system with all its issues will be more honest than the Democratic Primary.

In the future would too much to suggest the obvious - a primary that resembles the actual election the nominee will participate in and try to win? Or we would rather continue to select the best checkers players for the upcoming chess match again.

The Democrats - in the process of snatching defeat from the Jaws of victory. Again?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:02 AM on 02/12/2008

No more elections, no more caucases, reinstall Florida's delegates and move on. The democrats in Florida turned out to vote because we wanted our voices heard - plain and simple. I don't understand why Florida saw fit to move primary elections nor do I understand why DNC stripped FL and MI of their delegates - and why they should hold such control like that. I for one, am not planning to make any contributions to DNC unless this is resolved. The whole thing is ridiculous.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:42 AM on 02/12/2008
- mthespian I'm a Fan of mthespian 5 fans permalink

Yet many Michigan and Florida voters voted to prove they were involved, but with full knowledge that those delegates had been stripped of the vote. Others didn't vote because they knew the delegates didn't count.

Aren't you misinterpreting their actions if you seat delegates from the flawed primaries.

To me, if no further primaries or caucuses can be held, I think the best choice would be to gather as many superdelegates as delegates represented by the two states. Have the superdelegates vote to the opposite candidate from the FL and MI delegates. Thus much of the bizarro superdelegate wonkiness is handled without them being forced to make a choice. Simultaneously you seat the delegations so no one is disenfranchised.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:13 AM on 02/12/2008
- genmalia I'm a Fan of genmalia 6 fans permalink

There was a property tax amendment on the ballot as well, correct? So you got to vote for something other than the presidential nominee.

It was not as though Florida and Michigan weren't told they wouldn't get their delegates AFTER they voted. They were told in advance, and when they didn't move the date, the DNC revoked their delegates and asked the campaigns not to campaign or advertise there.

You've got the frontrunners: Clinton, former first lady married to a popular ex-president, Edwards, former VP nominee, and Obama relatively unknown in Florida.

You honestly think that the majority of Floridians researched these candidates, knowing they had no delegates?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:14 PM on 02/12/2008

And you are being intellectually dishonest as you know that the DNC (with the knowledge and agreement of the Clintons) had warned the State officials of the penalties involved. The Clinton knew and agreed! Any resolution would have to be one that both campaigns agreed to and that would be fair to both. Clinton should not be allowed to bull-doze the DNC into giving her those (uncontested) "wins".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:11 PM on 02/12/2008
- bccity I'm a Fan of bccity 3 fans permalink

Why not?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:48 PM on 02/12/2008
- TruthLives I'm a Fan of TruthLives 5 fans permalink

Obama's candidacy, movement, rock star status, is nothing more than another cult as is "Scientolo­gy"...... to trade on your mothers pain, suffering, and death for votes is just about as low as a candidate can go.....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:51 AM on 02/12/2008
- ljsfolly I'm a Fan of ljsfolly 6 fans permalink

Your "truth" is not true nor real. Just because he has the "something" that people see as a new direction means just that nothing more. He doesn't pass out koolaid at the campaign stops he gives people hope. You must be really young and I will be nice and not call you stupid but misinformed. Just because someone doesn't agree with your choices or beliefs does not mean they are something like a cult. There have been great people before now who have also had this "something" and we never have looked at them like they were using mind control on us. You need to go to scholl and re-learn history as your thought process is crew up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:07 AM on 02/12/2008
- CVale I'm a Fan of CVale 2 fans permalink

What?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:42 AM on 02/12/2008

cut.. paste.. paste... paste.. my whole pathetic day....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:48 AM on 02/12/2008

Can you say that one more time? I didn't catch that in the 12 other threads you posted it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:46 AM on 02/12/2008

Okay, so now they have poll-tested the word "cult" and it looks they it could do some damage. Is that it? For the first time in a very long time, people are energized and pumped up and ready do some good, make a difference and for that they are being marginalized and insulted. Well, those of us who are for Obama should then redefine the word cult because if it is a cult, it is a good cult. It is a cult that asks us to believe that we can the change the way the Government operates. Tens of thousands of Iraqis and thousands of young Americans would still be alive today if we had this cult-like mindset a couple of years ago. We could have mobilized and made sure that our Government didn't take us into an illegal war, a war that should never have been AUTHORIZED.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:17 PM on 02/12/2008
- bccity I'm a Fan of bccity 3 fans permalink

The problem was that the majority of Americans supported the war and the cult now has many of them in it. A lot of the cult members did not say anything about going to war and some of them must have even voted for the moron running our country into the ground. So live with it dude because you are not special.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:59 PM on 02/12/2008
- TruthLives I'm a Fan of TruthLives 5 fans permalink

Obama's candidacy, movement, rock star status, is nothing more than another cult as is "Scientolo­gy"...... to trade on your mothers pain, suffering, and death for votes is just about as low as a candidate can go.....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:58 AM on 02/12/2008

Sucks to be you and in denial.

Sore loser!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:27 AM on 02/12/2008

cut.. paste.. paste... paste.. my whole pathetic day....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:49 AM on 02/12/2008
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