one more point, is there a correlation that both states in question are states that support Hillary? who are these state officals {knowing} that the Big Boys said not to have primaries till feb 5, and went ahead knowing the voters may be disenfranchised? Who do you think Pelosi is supporting? also caucuses are not proper, Because voters "Will" be intimedated, primaries must be the Rule. Obama has old clinton people with him and old reagan people with him, so were is the change? and the future is now and I not interested in changing the world . fix health care , stop the war, help the middle class , get kids education, ect,ect,ect.

This isn't something that happened overnight. The voters of Florida and Michigan should have protested before their primaries. Sen. Hillary Clinton, if she really was concerned about the voters in Florida and Michigan being disenfranchised, should have spoken before the primaries. That what leaders do.

As a Michigan voter , who voted, I want my vote to count!!--Pelosi can speak for her calipornians but keep her mouth shut about our votes!!

cc Letter to Editor:


Unbelievably, millions of voters have been thrown out of the 2008 primary. This time it's not faulty voting machines and hanging chads! To recap how we got to this sad place of disenfranchisement, here's the history. For lack of space, I'll focus on Florida, though Michigan's voters need to be addressed too.


The Florida State Legislature (under Republican rule), not happy with being lumped together with everyone else on Super Tuesday, moved their primary date up to January 29. They purposefully chose this date following the earlier primaries/caucuses of Iowa, NH, Nevada and South Carolina, so as not to encroach upon the first primary status of those states. This legislation was then signed into law by Florida's Republican Governor (05/21/07).

The problem is this new legislation did not follow the Democratic National Committee rules, so the DNC imparted a 2-part punishment. And who does the DNC punish? Their own Democratic voters! -- who have become innocent victims of this whole insanity.


Anyway, here's the punishment: First, the presidential candidates would not be allowed to campaign in Florida. If punishment were warranted, this was harsh enough, but the DNC added a second stick: Florida's Democratic voters, who by the way turned out in record-breaking numbers, will not be represented at the National Convention. Talk about throwing a baby out in the bathwater!! For the DNC to tell millions of voters not to bother to vote because they don't count is incredibly short-sighted and just plain STUPID!!


Doesn't the DNC know how critical Florida and Michigan are to the general election? Why are they alienating millions of their own Democrats?! In effect, the DNC has disenfranchised its own people, voters who themselves had nothing to do with the Florida State Republican-ruled Legislature's rescheduling of the primary date.


Is this what we call representative democracy?

Holy Moly! Everyone needs to check their facts (including the Speaker).
First, it wasn't the voters of Florida who broke rules; it was the Republican-ruled Legislature and the Republican Governor. The DNC is following a Bush mold with their misdirected punishment. Post 9/11 Bush invaded Iraq who had nothing to do with 9/11; similarly the DNC has disenfranchised millions of its own voters who had nothing to do with the primary change. (maybe Rove was behind this!)
And to those of you who think it's not fair to discouraged Floridians who did not vote. What nonsense. Floridian Dems turned out in all-time record-breaking numbers! (61% in my mom's county)-- not exactly voter apathy here!
Also it should be noted that Iowa, NH, and SC all broke DNC rules. So the DNC ouught to be fair and disenfranchise all those voters too. Rule 11.A specifically set the date for the primaries & caucuses for those three states as "no earlier than 22 days before the first Tuesday in February" (Iowa), "no earlier than 14 days before the first Tuesday in February" (New Hampshire), and "no earlier than 7 days before the first Tuesday in February" (South Carolina).
Iowa held their caucuses on January 3rd. That's more than 22 days before the first Tuesday in February. New Hampshire held their primary on January 8th. That's more than 17 days before the first Tuesday in February. And South Carolina held their primary on January 26th. That's more than 7 days before the first Tuesday in February. (thanks to andrewalker for rules)
See below for a copy of a letter I wrote to my local newspaper (NH).

Is this the same Nancy Pelosi who has been so totally ineffectual as Speaker of the House? The same Nancy Pelosi that we all cheered when she took the gavel because we thought (foolishly) she would follow the will of the people and voters of the State of California? When this is all over I for one, want her gone from the seat and have someone in there that will do something. I am tired to making excuses for her, tired of defending her. And I for one will fight like heck to make sure her daughter does not take over the state party.

Ms. Pelosi, the people, the voters of these states did not break the rules. That is just one of the things that keeps getting lost in this. Everyone keeps blaming the people/voters in MI and FL. And why do they blame them; because they didn"t vote for Obama when he was on the ballot and when his ground crew worked people hard to vote for "uncommitted". Had Obama won in Florida and the uncommitted vote exceeded HRC"s numbers do any of you really believe that the Obama devotees would not be fighting to have FL and MI seated? So now we are saying the voters should not decide the race. First the Obama people send out Jesse Jackson Jr to threaten the black electeds and black superdelegates, now we have the very transparent Speaker and her daughter saying the voters of MI and FL should not decide the race. Well then who? Anyone who will and can decide it for Obama. When are you going to wake up people? Take one moment away from your trace and look into the mans background. Research how he won his seat in the state senate and what he did to good democrats to go unchallenged. That"s how he wins.

Democrats have no problem disenfranchising voters when it suits the Democrats needs. But, unfortunately, it ultimately won't matter. Because this election the Democrat political insider super delegates will select the nominee in the back room.

this is bulls--t. pslosi, a million plus dems. voted and you people are saying they don't matter. what about the Super Delegates who switch there Vote. they changed the rules. if you didn't want the florida and michigan vote to count you should not have let the voting take place. as for this point alot of Obama's people stayed home is bulls--t. if you were going to vote {like the million plus} you would have voted.

And by the way, if you cannot see the dishonest on the face of the "count the votes" in FL ad MI debate without some measures to take into account the fact that were not fairly run primary elections (if you can call them primary elections at all), than I think you may need to step back and examine your ability at objectivity with regards to your chosen candidate and the process. Aren't we the party that was burned in 2000 in Florida (where I in fact voted for Gore and distinctly remember the frustration when I was first introduced to Rove talk in regards to the way the count should move forward). I think it is a shame that the states were disenfranchised, but they were. If we want to enfranchise them, we need to actually hold a vote (primary or caucus), where the candidates go to the ground, speak to the voters, have both of their names on the ballot, you know, the way this thing is supposed to work. If you cannot support that as Clinton supporter, than you may be a bit influenced by the desire to win, and resemble the RNC in Florida in 2000 more than you would like to believe.

`
Lady Hill & Billy will do anything
to get to the Whitehouse.
They show contempt for those who oppose them.
They are intelligent, competent, sincere, ambitious,
BUT
... TRUTH ... is not a Clinton characteristic
... putting the country before ambition
is not a Clinton characteristic
... (e.g. Bill could have resigned over Monica
and allowed Gore to run as an incumbent)
After 8-years of Emperor Bush,
TRUTH is the #1 priority of thinking Dems.
putting the country before ambition is #2.
.

I really don't get the fervor for hillary as the true democrat and fighter compared to Obama. The entire Clinton strategy has been to pull US, the rest of the party to the center to appeal to some independents, the 51% strategy. The majority of Clinton policy has been hardly progressive, and now she has become so cynical about advancing progressive policy that she has gotten in bed with heath insurance/pharma and consistently voted in a very unethical manner on all things "war-related" (ie landmines ban) so as not to appear weak and hurt her election chances. This is not a hit piece, just a serious question for her supporters. I remember when we progressives were so very disappointed in the Clinton agenda and results, and I do not know anyone who is seriously impressed by her tepid term as a senator. What I see is a Clinton history of at best tepid policy and divisive rhetoric. Can anyone bring a serious response to this?

I think if half as much energy was put into holding party-sanctioned primaries in MI and FL as are wasted on web-chatter, we'd already have them scheduled, both candidates could campaign there according to the rules AND THEN THE DELEGATES FROM THOSE STATES COULD BE SEATED AT THE CONVENTION.

Wouldn't that be a good idea? If you're from Fl or MI and you feel disenfranchised, contact your state Democratic Party leadership and demand that they hold a party-sanctioned primary - or caucus - or whatever, as long as it allows the candidates to actively campaign for their delegates. Then all of this bullshit speculation and gnashing of teeth can be resolved in a productive and fair way.

If you're not willing to work within the system to influence it, then stop bitching about it when you don't like the results.

You have nobody to blame but yourselves.

8

The DEMOCRATIC convention has provisions for seating delegates, but IMO: Impeach Pelosi, then only count delegates from blue states.

Oh, I'm sure the Obama camp would like nothing better than overturn a million and a half Florida democratic primary voters in favor of a caucus where 50,000 show up.

http://tinyurl.com/2ucw43

YES WE CAN fool some of the people all of the time.