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Iraq roadside bombs, Marine Corps, us casualties, warwire
Iraq roadside bombs, Marine Corps, us casualties, warwire

Bureaucrats' "Gross Mismanagement" Blamed For Hundreds Of Marines' Deaths

RICHARD LARDNER | February 16, 2008 07:28 AM EST | AP

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WASHINGTON — Hundreds of U.S. Marines have been killed or injured by roadside bombs in Iraq because Marine Corps bureaucrats refused an urgent request in 2005 from battlefield commanders for blast-resistant vehicles, an internal military study concludes.

The study, written by a civilian Marine Corps official and obtained by The Associated Press, accuses the service of "gross mismanagement" that delayed deliveries of the mine-resistant, ambush-protected trucks for more than two years.

Cost was a driving factor in the decision to turn down the request for the so-called MRAPs, according to the study. Stateside authorities saw the hulking vehicles, which can cost as much as a $1 million each, as a financial threat to programs aimed at developing lighter vehicles that were years from being fielded.

After Defense Secretary Robert Gates declared the MRAP (pronounced M-rap) the Pentagon's No. 1 acquisition priority in May 2007, the trucks began to be shipped to Iraq in large quantities.

The vehicles weigh as much as 40 tons and have been effective at protecting American forces from improvised explosive devices (IEDs), the weapon of choice for Iraqi insurgents. Only four U.S. troops have been killed by such bombs while riding in MRAPs; three of those deaths occurred in older versions of the vehicles.

The study's author, Franz J. Gayl, catalogs what he says were flawed decisions and missteps by midlevel managers in Marine Corps offices that occurred well before Gates replaced Donald Rumsfeld in December 2006.

Among the findings in the Jan. 22 study:

_ Budget and procurement managers failed to recognize the damage being done by IEDs in late 2004 and early 2005 and were convinced the best solution was adding more armor to the less-sturdy Humvees the Marines were using. Humvees, even those with extra layers of steel, proved incapable of blunting the increasingly powerful explosives planted by insurgents.

_ An urgent February 2005 request for MRAPs got lost in bureaucracy. It was signed by then-Brig. Gen. Dennis Hejlik, who asked for 1,169 of the vehicles. The Marines could not continue to take "serious and grave casualties" caused by IEDs when a solution was commercially available, wrote Hejlik, who was a commander in western Iraq from June 2004 to February 2005.

Gayl cites documents showing Hejlik's request was shuttled to a civilian logistics official at the Marine Corps Combat Development Command in suburban Washington who had little experience with military vehicles. As a result, there was more concern over how the MRAP would upset the Marine Corps' supply and maintenance chains than there was in getting the troops a truck that would keep them alive, the study contends.

_ The Marine Corps' acquisition staff didn't give top leaders correct information. Gen. James Conway, the Marine Corps commandant, was not told of the gravity of Hejlik's MRAP request and the real reasons it was shelved, Gayl writes. That resulted in Conway giving "inaccurate and incomplete" information to Congress about why buying MRAPs was not hotly pursued.

_ The Combat Development Command, which decides what gear to buy, treated the MRAP as an expensive obstacle to long-range plans for equipment that was more mobile and fit into the Marines Corps' vision as a rapid reaction force. Those projects included a Humvee replacement called the Joint Light Tactical Vehicle and a new vehicle for reconnaissance and surveillance missions.

The MRAPs didn't meet this fast-moving standard and so the Combat Development Command didn't want to buy them, according to Gayl. The study calls this approach a "Cold War orientation" that suffocates the ability to react to emergency situations.

_ The Combat Development Command has managers _ some of whom are retired Marines _ who lack adequate technical credentials. They have outdated views of what works on the battlefield and how the defense industry operates, Gayl says. Yet they are in position to ignore or overrule calls from deployed commanders.

An inquiry should be conducted by the Marine Corps inspector general to determine if any military or government employees are culpable for failing to rush critical gear to the troops, recommends Gayl, who prepared the study for the Marine Corps' plans, policies and operations department.

The study was obtained by the AP from a nongovernment source.

"If the mass procurement and fielding of MRAPs had begun in 2005 in response to the known and acknowledged threats at that time, as the (Marine Corps) is doing today, hundreds of deaths and injuries could have been prevented," writes Gayl, the science and technology adviser to Lt. Gen. Richard Natonski, who heads the department. "While the possibility of individual corruption remains undetermined, the existence of corrupted MRAP processes is likely, and worthy of (inspector general) investigation."

Gayl, who has clashed with his superiors in the past and filed for whistle-blower protection last year, uses official Marine Corps documents, e-mails, briefing charts, memos, congressional testimony, and news articles to make his case.

He was not allowed to interview or correspond with any employees connected to the Combat Development Command. The study's cover page says the views in the study are his own.

Maj. Manuel Delarosa, a Marine Corps spokesman, called Gayl's study "predecisional staff work" and said it would be inappropriate to comment on it. Delarosa said, "It would be inaccurate to state that Lt. Gen. Natonski has seen or is even aware of" the study.

Last year, the service defended the decision to not buy MRAPs after receiving the 2005 request. There were too few companies able to make the vehicles, and armored Humvees were adequate, officials said then.

Hejlik, who is now a major general and heads Marine Corps Special Operations Command, has cast his 2005 statement as more of a recommendation than a demand for a specific system.

The term mine-resistant, ambush-protected vehicle "was very generic" and intended to guide a broader discussion of what type of truck would be needed to defend against the changing threats troops in the field faced, Hejlik told reporters in May 2007. "I don't think there was any intent by anybody to do anything but the right thing."

The study does not say precisely how many Marine casualties Gayl thinks occurred due to the lack of MRAPs, which have V-shaped hulls that deflect blasts out and away from the vehicles.

Gayl cites a March 1, 2007, memo from Conway to Gen. Peter Pace, then the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, in which Conway said 150 service members were killed and an additional 1,500 were seriously injured in the prior nine months by IEDs while traveling in vehicles.

The MRAP, Conway told Pace, could reduce IED casualties in vehicles by 80 percent. He told Pace an urgent request for the vehicles was submitted by a Marine commander in May 2006. No mention is made of Hejlik's call more than a year before.

Delivering MRAPs to Marines in Iraq, Conway wrote, was his "number one unfilled warfighting requirement at this time." Overall, he added, the Marine Corps needed 3,700 of the trucks _ more than three times the number requested by Hejlik in 2005.

More than 3,200 U.S. troops, including 824 Marines, have been killed in action in Iraq since the war began in March 2003. An additional 29,000 have been wounded, nearly 8,400 of them Marines. The majority of the deaths and injuries have been caused by explosive devices, according to the Defense Department.

Congress has provided more than $22 billion for 15,000 MRAPs the Defense Department plans to acquire, mostly for the Army. Depending on the size of the vehicle and how it is equipped, the trucks can cost between $450,000 and $1 million.

As of May 2007, roughly 120 MRAPs were being used by troops from all the military services, Pentagon records show. Now, more than 2,150 are in the hands of personnel in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Marines have 900 of those.

One section of Gayl's study analyzes a letter Conway sent in late July 2007 to Sens. Joseph Biden, D-Del., and Kit Bond, R-Mo., two critics of delays in sending equipment to Iraq.

More heavily armored Humvees were determined to be the best response to the 2005 MRAP request, the commandant told the senators. He also said the industrial capacity to build MRAPs in large numbers "did not exist" when the request was submitted. Additionally, although the trucks had been fielded in small numbers, they were not adequately tested and exhibited reliability problems, the letter said.

The letter to the senators is evidence of the "bad advice" senior Marine Corps leaders receive, Gayl contends. The letter, he says, portions of which were probably drafted by the Combat Development Command, omitted that the urgent 2005 request from the Iraq battlefield specifically asked for MRAPs _ and not more heavily armored Humvees. It also ignored the Marines' own findings that armored Humvees wouldn't stop IEDs.

Conway's assertion there was a lack of manufacturing capacity to build MRAPs is "inexplicable," Gayl says. Manufacturers would have hurried production if they knew the Marines wanted them and any reliability issues would have been resolved, he says.

In late November, the Marine Corps announced it would buy 2,300 MRAPs _ 1,400 fewer than planned. Improved security in Iraq, changes in tactics, and decreasing troop levels allowed for the cut. But Marine officials also listed several downsides to the MRAP: The vehicles are too tall and heavy to pursue the enemy down narrow streets, on rough terrain or across many bridges.

If MRAPs arrived to Iraq late, or proved too bulky for certain missions, the Marine Corps should have come up with different and better solutions several years ago when the IED crisis was growing, Gayl contends.

A former Marine officer, Gayl spent nearly six months in Iraq in 2006 and 2007 as an adviser to leaders of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force.

His stinging indictment of the Marine Corps' system for fielding gear is not a first. He has been an outspoken advocate for non-lethal weapons, such as a beam gun that stings but doesn't kill and "dazzlers" that use a powerful light beam to steer unwelcome vehicles and people from checkpoints and convoys.

The failure to send these alternative weapons to Iraq has led to U.S. casualties and the deaths of Iraqi civilians, Gayl has said.

Gayl filed for whistle-blower protection in May with the U.S. Office of Special Counsel. He said he was threatened with disciplinary action after meeting with congressional staff on Capitol Hill.

Biden and Bond rebuked the Marine Corps in September for "apparent retaliation" against Gayl.

___

Associated Press researcher Monika Mathur contributed to this report from New York.

___

On The Net: http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/homepage?readform

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So how long 'til we hear a blast from Bush that these critics "don't support the troops" and are "on the side of terror"?

Oh...wait a minute...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:29 PM on 02/16/2008
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Don't hold yer breath. And has anyone else noticed how silent the regular rightwing HuffPo trolls are nowhere in sight on this story?

Kinda like Condi, Rove, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Cheney in the public eye these days; nowhere to be seen as the American people are drawing closer to an election. ..

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:27 AM on 02/17/2008
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"Kinda like Condi, Rove, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Cheney in the public eye these days; nowhere to be seen as the American people are drawing closer to an election."

I think there's a simpler explanation: they all decided to play in a sandbox, and some cats came along and covered them up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:27 AM on 02/19/2008
- realpolitic I'm a Fan of realpolitic 141 fans permalink

This article is simply another reason why Rumsfield should be in jail.

Funny and heartbreakingly sad how even multi-billion dollar requests for weapons systems comes down to the discretion of one incompetent bureaucrat, in this case a civilian logistics official with little experience with military vehicles.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:54 PM on 02/16/2008
- helonias I'm a Fan of helonias 222 fans permalink
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Bureaucrats' "Gross Mismanagement" Blamed For Hundreds Of Marines Deaths Who Are Not From The Bush/Cheney/Romney Gene Pool.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:51 PM on 02/16/2008
- realpolitic I'm a Fan of realpolitic 141 fans permalink

Someone should raise this question to Bush the next time he speaks in front of a military audience.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:05 PM on 02/17/2008
- plages I'm a Fan of plages 17 fans permalink

As an x Marine, this is truly sad . . .

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:40 PM on 02/16/2008
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Thank you for your service to our country.

As the son of a WW2 US Marine who volunteered straight after Pearl Harbour, a man whose brothers include one who served in combat under Patton, this tale is beyond the merely sad!

IMHO it is now firmly in the realm of criminal incompetence, if not treason. The people responsible up to and including the Secretaries of Defense under this rogue administration should be marched into a courtroom and placed on trial for maiming and murdering God-only-knows how many Marines and GIs due to this malfeasance!

Hanging's too good for such as these.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:30 AM on 02/17/2008

Here is the most significant sentence in this article:

"Stateside authorities saw the hulking vehicles, which can cost as much as a $1 million each, as a financial threat to programs aimed at developing lighter vehicles that were years from being fielded."

They were a financial threat to the big contracts that had been awarded to the pals of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc. Nothing took higher precedence in the Bush administration than the making of money by their cronies. This is what ought to be investigated, but it won't be.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:02 PM on 02/16/2008
- jbatch I'm a Fan of jbatch 41 fans permalink

Wow. this may be the stupidest piece of reporting I've ever seen.

If this reporter had done an iota of research, he would have found that while Gayl raises a legitmate point, he blames the wrong guys. The fault is Bush's, Cheney's and Rummy's.

The need for the MRAP has been kicking around at much higher levels than "the bureaucrats" since 2004, when congressmen began sending letters directly to Rumsfeld (Graham, and later Dems, Biden and Levin) about the need for more MRAPs.

For Bush, Rumsfeld, and senior Pentagon offcials to suggest they were not aware of this need, is simpley impossible. Letters from Senators don't get ignored, and the replies were polite blow-offs.

Here's the deal: Bush, Cheney, Rummy, and crew wanted to wage war on the cheap: Examples?

- Hillbilly armor;
- Walter Reed sell out of soldiers;
- bake sales for body armor;
- You go to war with the army you have, not the army you want;
- Firing Shinskeki for saying it would take 400,000 troops;
- Bush firing his chief economic advisor when he said it would take $100,00 million to conduct Iraq war;
- ignoring State department bureaucrats who said we needed a plan for post-invasion strategy;
- ignoring the cogent strategy they developed;

But go ahead, blame it on the Republican's favorite scapegoat -- big gubmint and the bad ol' bureaucrats. Play right into the Republican meme of "government is the problem; not the solution."

Well, turns out that's right, about half the time -- that half would be the time the Republicans are in charge.

Fact is, bureacrats told Bush 911 was imminent, but he ignroed them;
Told Bush there was no reason to invade Iraq, but he ignored them;
Told Bush he needed a plan for the occupation, but he ignored them;
Told Bush it would cost more and take more troops --but he ignored them.

Yep, those bur'crats sure are dumb.

Gayl's report is merely the latest indictment of Bush's failure to protect troops. The only two people in the world who don't seem to be aware of that are Gayl and this idiot reporter.



    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:49 PM on 02/16/2008
- puffhost I'm a Fan of puffhost 11 fans permalink

Well put. To say they were not aware of the need is another in the long list of lies. I recall John Kerry bringing up this point time after time in the 04 debates and Bush standing there looking like and idiot until he got his rebuttal from Rove via the earpiece he was wearing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:03 PM on 02/16/2008

young soldier's die needlessly while conservatives grossly and incompetiently manage this war ...

this is the most corrupt, incompetent and slimey bunch ever

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:05 PM on 02/16/2008
- RumiSouth I'm a Fan of RumiSouth 34 fans permalink
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Price of one Joint Strike Fighter: $200,000,000

Price of one MRAP vehicle: $200,000

Rhetoric about "supporting our troops" while not giving a shit about them: PRICELESS

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:47 PM on 02/16/2008

I attended the funeral of a guy I grew up with who was in the military, sat on weapons that had undepleated uranium. When he died, the autopsy said testicular cancer from unknown source. Here is the catch, many more like my friend also suffered the same fate, and all ended up sitting on bombs that also had the undepleated uranium before they came down with it. I don't believe in coincidences. I am tired of the lies of this and past administrations. Our troops have a right to know what they are getting exposed to, and the risks involved. Lying to them is crimminal and grounds for treason. My friend's family tried to get the pentagon to come clean, only to be told, sorry, its classified. My ass. Tell that to the guys whom we buried.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:12 PM on 02/16/2008

You have to look at the broader piture. Look at how much more they enriched themselves and their friends by denying and delaying the soldiers life saving armour.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:35 PM on 02/16/2008
- Johnniedog I'm a Fan of Johnniedog 4 fans permalink

Everyone that views this article knows that the people that stopped the production of the armored vehicles were told to do so by those that be in power in the Bush Administration. These minions have access to the same media stories that we do and "for sure" knew we were in dire need of the better vehicles. Those great Patriots (the republicans), that support the Troops, pulled another bonner on the Troops and the American people. This, and all of the other lies of the Republicans, are the reason they will loose the next round of elections in 08. REPUBLICANS SUCK!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:12 PM on 02/16/2008
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I would advocate hanging for the Marine bureaucrat­s-in-unifo­rm responsible for this fiasco, except IMHO it would be better to ship them all to Iraq to perform mine and IED clearance duty using bayonets and bare hands like my Dad's generation of Marines during WW2.

They dare to infest the Marine Corps with their despicable and incompetent presence, then let them at least be useful in some small capacity rather than getting fellow Marines killed due to their egeregious incompetence.

Hanging's too good for these sacks of s***!

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:22 PM on 02/16/2008
- lastams I'm a Fan of lastams 50 fans permalink

Well we seem to have no problem pumping out money for Virginia Class Submarines. Maybe we can put wheels on them and mount a few deck guns.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:22 PM on 02/16/2008
- Nyland8 I'm a Fan of Nyland8 90 fans permalink
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Or build a shiny new submarine base on the outskirts of Plainville, KS ...

... with tunnels to Portage IN, Port Arthur TX, Portsmouth VA and Portland OR

That ought to confound the axis of evil.

And create a nice public works project for the country.

8

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:13 PM on 02/16/2008
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2/16/08
4:42pm
Library of Congress

In 2001 I began reasearching terrorist activity in Israel because I was very upset by 9/11 and I'm a former US Army auditor who thought that could never happen to us.
Well, in 2001 I began reading about the IEDs being used in Israel during the "Intifada" and I was sure that these kinds of weapons would eventually be used against our troops--hopefully not against our citizens on the streets.
Anyway, I created a spreadsheet which showed how devastating these IEDs can be but, of course, NOBODY would discuss it with me or even look at it, I suppose.
God knows I tried to get the Washington Post, the NY Times, and others (even David Letterman)­interested­.
It was just common sense to start planning for this kind of attack when we first saw it used against Israeli troops and civilians.
Protection of our troops should be first priority.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:51 PM on 02/16/2008
- Synoia I'm a Fan of Synoia 6 fans permalink

The South Africans built one of these for use in the Caprivi Strip in the '70s. (Called the PIG). Didn't cost $450,000+, or anything like that amount.

Why do these things cost so much?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:23 PM on 02/16/2008
- TakeSake I'm a Fan of TakeSake 18 fans permalink
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$200,000 to build the vehicle.

$800,000 to grease the system.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:03 PM on 02/16/2008



Friggin bureaucrats.

And some people want an even bigger government.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:57 PM on 02/16/2008
- blueshift I'm a Fan of blueshift 2 fans permalink

This story is out because some officer is covering his ass for his own dereliction of duty. --- It's easy to blame 'bureaucrats' whether inside the government or inside the even bigger insurance company that same 'bureaucrat' at this very minute might be deciding your insurance claim by looking into your history, regardless of your needs. --- 'Bureaucrats' get the blame, but they are NEVER, EVER the responsible party. It's the officers' job to know the big picture, and read the reports, and issue final judgments. --- Does your boss rubber stamp everything you pass up? I very much doubt it. --- if YOU AREN'T THE BOSS, YOU'RE A 'BUREAUCRAT' TOO.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:27 PM on 02/16/2008
- blueshift I'm a Fan of blueshift 2 fans permalink

Some of us want BETTER government, no matter what size it is.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:29 PM on 02/16/2008



Better is a great goal.

Bigger is seldom better.

In this case there were too many poorly informed links in the chain and they f'ed up. Bigger government means more links to fail.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:38 PM on 02/16/2008
- jbatch I'm a Fan of jbatch 41 fans permalink

Actually, this report missallocates the blame. The "bureaucrats" were responding to pressure from the polticals (Bush and Rummy) to do a war on the cheep.

Some in Congress, GAO and others had begged Bush to up the number of these vehicles beginning in 2004, but he -- advised by Cheney and Rummy -- steadfastly refused on a cost basis.

Remember Rummy "You go to war with the Army you have, not the one you want?" Was that the bureaucrats decision? Nope. They fought the war, and the notion it could be done on the cheep.

Remember "hillbilly armor" -- hand-made armor from junk? Remember Murtha and the Dems trying to get better body armor but being blocked by the Repugs in 2004-05?

And who is it that has eviscerated government by blaming about "friggin' bureaucrats?" You guessed it -- Bush, Cheney, Rummy and the Repugs.

Nobody wants a "big government," but the fact is, if this country had listened to the "friggin bureaucrats" we wouldn't have gone into an undecessary war; if Bush had listened to the "fringgin' bureacrats" he would have known 911 was coming (remember when he sent the Mid-level CIA guys home from Crawford, saying "you've covered your asses, now go back to Wahsington" when they tried to warn him that an attack was imminent?)

And --having monumentally screwed up and attacked the wrong country, if Bush had listened to the "friggin' bureaucrats" we would have waged a smart war and won the hearts and minds of Iraqis.

Bush and the Repugs have laid the blame for their criminal malfeasance on their one-size-fits-all whipping boy, big gubmint. And idiots like you fall for it.

So, I have some advice for you -- think for yourself and quit mouthing mindless soundbites, or shtut the hell up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:33 PM on 02/16/2008
- anelder I'm a Fan of anelder 18 fans permalink
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Since you obviously know your stuff and deliver it with passion it would be helpful if you held back a little with all that testerone. It would alsohelp if your words and passion turned some people on to not off of the facts as they are.

In case I'm speaking to a woman not a man don't take offense. Many of our daughters get that way due to too much testoterone in the amnionit fluid. Not worry, it's not fatal.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:54 PM on 02/16/2008
- anelder I'm a Fan of anelder 18 fans permalink
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Your correct, a bigger government wouldn't solve the matter. Conversely neither would a smaller one. Somewhere in those thoughts you must acknowledge it's a more efficient one that we need. And possibly that more efficient system would begin with a sure fire way of getting rid of those who are dead weight.

It seems much to easy to get into a government job with who you know rather than what.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:47 PM on 02/16/2008

Accountability is spelled I-M-P-E-A-­C-H-M-E-N-­T.

Gross negligence is spelled P-R-I-S-O-N.


Support the Troops!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:25 PM on 02/16/2008
- Nyland8 I'm a Fan of Nyland8 90 fans permalink
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The whole premise of the headline is absurd. In the final analysis, it presupposes that we have any business whatsoever being in Iraq ... and we don't.

ALL military fatalities can be theoretically attributed to service personnel not having the latest and greatest armor/coun­termeasure­/weapon/ta­ctic/intel­/medical treatment ... etc, etc. And all of those things depend on military bureaucracy ALL the time. So headlines like these serve to obscure the real cause of all of those deaths - which is the fact that those soldiers should never have been placed in harms way to begin with. Moreover, after that fact was confirmed years ago, they should have been removed from harms way.

So the blame for their deaths should not be attributed to slow procurement. We've had soldiers die in EVERY vehicle we've placed in Iraq, including Strykers, Cougars, Bradleys and M1-Abrams tanks, of which we've already lost more than 80. So WTF ??? If we want our fighting forces to survive, the place for them is out of the Middle East. If we had no right to invade - and we didn't - then we have no right to remain.

Bring all of our forces home, ASAP.

Anything else is delusional.

8

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:04 PM on 02/16/2008
- anelder I'm a Fan of anelder 18 fans permalink
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I too never approved of this war. But as in all things once done you don't just dessert the men we send there. And I do mean we. It's our government. They are our men. We owe them.

We also owe something to those civilians who die every day due to our actions. I'll stay away from "I am my brother's keeper" and just go for the "it's the right thing to do".

Please don't say "right in whose opinion", that's too old an axiom to have any weight.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:59 PM on 02/16/2008
- Nyland8 I'm a Fan of Nyland8 90 fans permalink
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"But as in all things once done you don't just dessert the men we send there."

Leaving them there for no good reason IS deserting them. And the only thing we "owe them" is the decency to return them to their families.

We do not owe one more American life to Iraq. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Niente. And to hell with anyone who says otherwise. You go tell the families of the next 100 service men who die in Iraq - NOT IN DEFENSE OF THIS COUNTRY- that their loved ones owed their lives to the Iraqis. Bullshit. And there is no evidence. None. Zippo. Nothing. Zero. Nada that our presence in Iraq is responsible for saving or protecting even a single life. In the greatest trail that will probably ever exist in the history of Iraq, the trail of Saddam Hussein, we were unable to protect the judges, we were unable to protect the prosecutors, and we were unable to protect his defense attorneys. So I call bullshit. The only ones we are there to protect are ourselves, and any other assertion is naive at best.

Quite the contrary, we protect Iraqis in at least three ways by leaving.

We do not victimize them. We've killed thousands.

They do not die as a result of being near us when we are targeted by insurgent forces.

They do not die because they are found to be complicit with us. Iraqis kidnap, torture and murder collaborators.

So, again, we had no right and no business invading Iraq in the first place, and we've certainly got no right to continue to occupy.

Bring ALL of our troops home immediately. The Iraq war has never served the interests of the American people, and it does not now.

8

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:35 PM on 02/16/2008
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