Thomas B. Edsall

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Thomas B. Edsall

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Is Obama Or Clinton The Better General Election Candidate?

Is Obama Or Clinton The Better General Election Candidate?

March 11, 2008 12:38 PM


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The extended battle between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton raises numerous interesting questions: Which candidate can better put the Democratic party back together for the general election? Is a nomination fight that could last all the way to the convention a negative or positive? Which is better going into the general election, the Clinton or Obama primary coalition?

These questions and others have captured the imagination of many of those closely watching the contest.

Take, for example, William Frey, a Brookings Institution demographer. On the assumption that the general election will ride on who wins the battleground states, the question then becomes, which are the battlegrounds?

"In my mind, there are slow-growing battlegrounds, including much of the Great Lakes and Midwest (e.g. Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania, among others) and fast growing battlegrounds (e.g. Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico, as well as Florida, among others)," Frey says.

If the fight comes down to the slow-growing states, "Hillary should have a strong advantage, because Obama's post-boomer appeal will turn off the aging baby boomers and seniors who would be more likely to go for McCain than to someone much younger and hipper, not to mention non-white."

Conversely, Frey argues, "Obama will have the advantage in the more diverse, fast growing battlegrounds. Not only is he a self proclaimed post-baby-boomer, but in many respects, he leads the way toward a post-ethnic, post-partisan America, which is spreading out to these states."

Frey suggested that "this election, like the last one, could depend on the 'old white belt' of the slow growing battlegrounds, in which case Hillary would fare better in perhaps the last battle of aging white presidential candidates."

Looking at the election on a state-by-state basis, Emory political scientist Alan Abramowitz came to a different conclusion:

"Obama does better in the western states. She does better in the Northeast, but those states are almost certain to end up in the D column anyway. So on balance, I'd say he looks a little stronger because of his ability to generate higher turnout of some Democratic constituencies and his ability to turn some previously red states into battlegrounds: Virginia, North Carolina, Colorado, maybe even Texas."

American Prospect contributing editor Adele Stan looked at the issue from the vantage point of completing constituencies, contending that the general election advantage falls to Obama:

"Barack Obama stands to inherit most of Hillary Clinton's coalition, minus the party's racists. Clinton will likely lose more of the party's sexists, plus its new contingent of young voters (who may just stay home) ... Hillary's strength is among white people over 50; Barack's is among young people of all backgrounds. McCain could cut into Hillary's advantage with older whites, but is unlikely to get Obama's young people. So, I would say that the Obama coalition has a slight advantage over Clinton's in the general.

Robert Borosage, co-chair of the Campaign for America's Future, contended that Obama is the higher risk candidate, but he is also the candidate who could give the Democrats a major payout:

"Race is a powerful force in this society. Obama has potential, in my view, to have far greater upside than Hillary -- you can imagine him creating a realignment, with young people, Latinos, independent professionals, etc., joining working people in a new majority coalition. But Republicans will turn him into an alien, and since folks haven't had a chance to know him, the risks of a real downside are greater also."

The strongest case for Obama was voiced by a Republican, Alex Castellanos, who was a senior media consultant in both of George W. Bush's campaigns and in Mitt Romney's failed bid for the nomination.

"Obama is the hope and future of the Democratic Party, not Hillary, and everyone knows it. He is the one bringing new energy and voters. He could be a Democratic Reagan, invigorating the party for 25 years. If the Clinton people knee-cap Obama, it would be like killing Santa Claus Xmas morning in front of the children. The children won't forget or forgive."

Castellanos warned, however, that Obama carries his own liabilities:

"He is a weaker, consensus leader, not a strong leader in an uncertain world. Hillary is the past, polarizing, but a tough, strong leader in uncertain world. In 50's America terms, it is role reversal: It might be said that she is the tough, daddy bear candidate, and Obama is the weaker, consensus mommy bear candidate."

The costs (and benefits) of the exceptionally long Democratic nomination fight are not easily agreed upon.

Author Katha Pollitt sees it as pretty much an unmitigated disaster:

"I think it is BAD for the Democrats for the fight to go on, because inevitably Hillary and Obama will have to do their best to tarnish each other in ways that will turn off less-committed voters and will give McCain ammunition. HRC's saying she and McCain were ready to be commander-in-chief but Obama has just given speeches is a good example."

In contrast, Borosage contends that the length of the nomination fight "has been good thus far, getting the country accustomed to a black or woman at the head of ticket, getting both campaigns more ready for prime time.

"I think people overplay the negative effects of a nomination struggle. This one has helped excite people, kept Democrats in the news, raised masses of new donors and activists etc. Once over, both candidates have a stake in bringing party together. And while activists are bruised, low information voters are just getting sense of what's going on, and are not likely to be dismayed."

While Borosage anticipates that the contest will soon "get more destructive," he is sanguine about the detrimental consequences of some of the tough charges the candidates are throwing at each other.

"If Hillary's peddling Moslem, black church, Farrakhan, inexperience, yada-yada now -- and Obama learns how to respond (and how to talk to working people) -- she's not saying anything the Republicans won't say in far harsher terms."

Castellanos, however, sees virtually no pluses on a long primary fight.

"Look at the land wars across Russia. It didn't work out too well for Charles XII in 1707, Napoleon in 1812 or Hitler in 1941. In each case, the long campaign was no "victory" since the great armies were obliterated on the way. In each case near certain victory was turned into defeat by the length of the bloody campaign."


 
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Hillary Clinton has lost some women voters, not all but lots. It's a chronic problem:many women don't like to see other women succeed. Unless it's their daughter or their best friend. And sometimes even that's problematic because it forces us to examine ourselves. If we are firmly planted on the ground of our own lives, then we can hold up our heads and look in the eyes of a successful woman and be happy for them. Or at least understand their drive and success. Voters in the USA need to understand Clinton, not vilify her. She is a smart woman who works hard for this country and now wants to be president, the hardest job there is. Barack Obama is a man who happens to be black. That's amazing and wonderful. That's who he is and wants to be. It's a fact that he won't step away from, it enhances him. But he is selling hope--that's what is moving his campaign. How ironic. As Ellen Goodman writes, women have finally achieved something great--the ability for a man to deliver a very female message which has caused Hillary to put up her dukes and fight like a man. What a reversal. Hillary is a woman. That's who she is and wants to be. It's a fact that some would like to pretend they are ignoring (I'm a man and I can hate her cause she's a dumb woman) or (I'm a woman and I can hate her because she's not acting like a woman should act and I have this narrow definition of what a woman is and I created it to keep myself safe. Women like Hillary are here to stay. If Hillary doesn't win over Obama she has done many of us a great service by paving the way. I'm backing her all the way.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:24 AM on 03/12/2008

At this point I think Obama is the stronger candidate in the general because of how viciously the media has savaged Hillary throughout this entire process. It's been disgraceful.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:49 AM on 03/12/2008

The answer to the question of who could do a better job in leadership, is obvious. Barack Obama. I say this for several reasons. Number one (no, not 'Day One', just a mere number one), where Hillary does not divorce a philandering husband.

You have to ask yourself why didn't she? Then you get a glimpse of the real Hillary. She wants to upstage her husband, and she wants to prove to herself she's a better man-hence the pants suits to hide her widening hips-and the out and out lies about her 'experience'. She has none. Other than being a disgrunted homemaker, who failed in that category long, long ago.

Next, she offers up the curious notion that she can do a better job, because if the call comes at 3. a.m., she'll be the one to answer it? If anyone ever tried to get through to the White House at 3 a.m., you might find an army of obstacles in your path, starting with the operator.

In other words, it is a sheer fantasy that she, or anyone else, will receive that call, unless it is from a major general raising the alarm that the new foreign policies set in place have just triggered a calamity.

Then there's the other thing. The thing no one cares to admit to, which is that little Billy is not in his room, or in his bed, at 3 a.m. In fact, no one knows where little Billy is, not daughter, not Commander-In-Chief, and not even the Secret Service. So where could little Billy be, you wonder? Where indeed. It's obvious to those who know the man. Heck, his history gives you a clue. He's probably out doing a Spitzer - and you have to ask with who?!

Now those are just a few of the problems Hillary Clinton has, along with a rotten temper, a divisive personality, and a penchant for lying about anything she can get away with, which includes her rewriting her bio, and telling the world what an 'experienced' person she is ... whatever that means.

Thus, if Barack Obama has any sense at all, he'll just stand back and watch her self-destruct. Those in the DNC know all about her. She was okay to put up as a candidate early on, given the mood of the a tired nation, but to oppose a John McCain? Not likely. In fact, not welcome. No, she has too much baggage, and against a dinosaur like McCain, you better have a game plan that makes sense.

Using the 'experience' profile against this old warrior, whose major offering for his candidacy is he survived a Vietnamese prison, is more than idiotic, it's ludicrous. You'd have to prove that the entire basis of his life was built up from a lie, aggravated by a foreign policy that made up its own 'evidence' as it went along, and that curiously enough, it is more alike Iraq than some would appreciate knowing.

Barack Obama, on the other hand, could have no trouble proving that, and by so doing show what a mess we made of our foreign policy. In fact, considering that Barack Obama has no baggage to make him stumble in any sort of debate, in all modesty, we might have to give the man a halo because he's normal!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:12 AM on 03/12/2008

This is meant to be an honest, non-biased view of the two candidates and where they stand now in this political race. It's very obvious, Obama has a lot of young, vibrant, multicultural supporters (many who are new to politics); on the other hand, Hillary has maintained much of the core Democratic base with the exception of African-Americans.

To sum it up, Obama has expanded the Party and Hillary has maintained the base but alienated African-Americans.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:28 AM on 03/12/2008

Voters' Memory Loss:
Clinton has the dubious distinction of being the only first lady to ever be indicted for perjury and obstruction of justice. It's like John Edwards said (and this is not a direct quote): The problem with nostalgia is that you only remember the good. If you really want 4 more years of unbridled ambition, secrecy, fear-mongering and hubris, she's your girl, but she will never get my vote. Never. And I have alot of company.

Check out the YouTube video: Hillary: The Movie 1/9.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:52 PM on 03/11/2008

Hillary Clinton has never been indicted for anything. I don't think you have a memory loss problem. I think you have a selective attention problem.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:47 AM on 03/12/2008

It's very strange how Barack can't seem's to carry a big state , Will that not be problematic in the general
for him? Is supporters will try to spin this to blame HRC . You have to win OH, TX, I'm sorry but didn't he just lost OH By 11 points . As a open minded Dem , Mc Cain just might steal Nov . then we'll all blame
HRC for dividing the party , Letting the golden boy off the hook like we do now.

My fellow Dems stop the identity politics vote for candidate who will adavnce the democratic agenda . Not
some dude because he is black , or the other because she is woman. Look at the issues , who would be better against Mr McCain that what at stake . Not the guy you like the most or the one you hate the
most.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:44 PM on 03/11/2008
- gtt I'm a Fan of gtt permalink


The big state agrument is flawed logic. There is little doubt that any democrat will win the big states of New York and California. To suggest that Senator Clinton will do better in Texas as the democratic nominee than Senator Obama is not to understand the make up of this state. In the pool of democratic voters, which included tens of thousands of republicans that crossed to vote for Clinton so as to try to stop Obama, Clinton was able to win by about 80,000. In a general election in the Lone Star State she would not likely get much more than 40 percent against McCain. Senator Obama could possibly carry the State by winning big in the major metro areas of Houston, San Antonio, Austin, Ft Worth, El Paso and Dallas. Obama would also do much better and could possibly carry western states like Colorado and New Mexico that Clinton would likely lose.
Simplistic "we won big state" claims are shallow and deceptive.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:49 PM on 03/22/2008

There are a number of factors in play here. The most important factor is the appeal of Obama. He has attracted millions of people to his campaign. If he is the nominee, these people will turn out to the polls in record numbers. They will also, in all probabillity, vote for other Democrats as well. This is an important consideration. Today, the Democrrats hold a thin majority in the House and a thinner one in the Senate. Just watch CSPAN and see how the 'minority' Republicans are wreaking havoc with the people's business. If Hillary is the nominee these newly attracted voters just may stay home on election day.
Another factor to consider is the Independent voter. McCain cannot win without them. Obama will attract a large number of these independents to his cause. Hillary will not.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:20 PM on 03/11/2008

It is time for Hillary to step aside...for the Democratic Party and voters to pull together the longer it goes it will give the Republican the win...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:42 PM on 03/11/2008

Obama will bring more new members into Congress...If we fail to do that in Senate you think the Republicans will block Clintons nomination...how going to stop them...see this movie before.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:01 PM on 03/11/2008

In November the Repubs and Independents that voted for Obama in the primaries will vote for McCain and the smaller states he carried will not win him the general election. They have already begun to start opening the closet doors looking for skeletons, Rove (who is now working as advisor for McCain) will do what he has to do(that is smear, rig voting booths, etc) and Obama will lose by a wide margin. Fear still trumps the economy even though people may be standing in soup lines next year and McCain will eclipse Obama in that department. It's sad but Obama's not even near strong enough to go up against the Republican machine. He better be the Second Coming if he wants to beat him and I don't think anyone really believes he is.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:40 PM on 03/11/2008

I do find it odd that Obama can't pull down the big states that are the ones he would need to be the next big guy. As far as McCain killing the economy, I don't think you would have any grounds to make that point. If anything, Obama would really kill the economy if he got all of the free handouts he promised in place (which won't happen anyways).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:49 PM on 03/11/2008
- abot I'm a Fan of abot permalink

BOfever

I don't know why people are concerned about the Big states CA, NY, NJ and CT.

These states have historically been blue and they will continue to be blue no matter who runs.

Use your brain do you really really think that CA, NY, NJ and CT are going to turn red.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:27 AM on 03/12/2008

Oh REALLY??? I'm an independent and you're right, I will vote for McCain in the fall...if Hillary gets nominated.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:56 PM on 03/11/2008
- abot I'm a Fan of abot permalink

so will I

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:24 AM on 03/12/2008

About half of the Democratic party is ready to vote for McCain of either side doesn't get the nomination. While I believe it is reprehensible to vote for a Republican and couldn't do it; I will vote for Nader if Hillary doesn't get the nomination. It didn't have to be this way; we could have had the white house for the next sixteen years.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:51 AM on 03/12/2008
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So will I. And I have voted for the dem ticket for over 20 years now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:48 AM on 03/12/2008

While I don't trust Rove or the Republican right to do anything but behave as they have in the past. I do believe Obama can pull the voters together! McCain has Bush to live down and the GOP has created too many bad moments to overcome! Don't let your cynicism carry you along!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:44 AM on 03/12/2008

It depends on which of them has Diebold as their VP.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:00 PM on 03/11/2008

Obama does not turn off this white, female, 60 year old boomer. He excites the heck out of me and my husband. Every boomer should think back to the 60's when we were the young new voters excited by the likes of JFK and RFK and MLK. We fought to end the Viet Nam War - we fought for civil rights and women's rights. College campuses were alive with change!

No sir, Obama does not turn me off but he does envigorate me and restore my faith that indeed there is still someone out there that will save our country and get the youth of this country excited about taking back our government for the people. There is hope for us yet and I believe that hope is our hands with Obama in the White House.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:25 PM on 03/11/2008


* high-fiving * you, enoughalready.

I hate when people generalize against the adults, older boomers whose "time" per se was the 1960s, 70s...Some of you are very vocal and bitter, but the flip side are people like who are vocal and recognize that you've seen this energy before with people motivated by the leaders you mentioned.

My mom grew up in late 60s/70s and her stories still excite me. And I'm glad we'll have our own to add to those great stories. (I may concede you guys' music blows ours away because Sly Stone, Motown, the Beatles, Muddy Waters and the Stones and HENDRIX kick ass on the iPod)

People complained the youth were apathetic...now some are mad the youth woke the hell up...others have joined the day-to-day quest for something better.

With terror alerts are part of the everyday schlog, we may as deal try to live whatever we have of our lives in something better, more efficient and forward-thinking than a Bush-Clinton-fear-driven fog.

Far as I'm concerned? I haven't seen a perfect president yet, and we never will. Obama is a deserving, fine leader, whom I believe will do great, and deserves as much right as any of our 43 all-white male presidents to screw up, let us get mad at him and work it out LOL.

I hope to vote for a woman for President in my lifetime who lies a lot less, acts less entitled to the position, and who's husband doesn't evolve into such a class-A spaz.

Peace be unto you my fellow Americans.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:37 PM on 03/11/2008

Let's see if you STILL feel this way in November...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:24 PM on 03/11/2008
- abot I'm a Fan of abot permalink

enoughalready

I am glad someone older has some sense in their head.

HRC's majority base is women over 50 and the uneducated and unemployed. The so-called blue-collar workers. Unfortunately from going to many blogs I feel and I say this with objectivity that most HRC supporters are stubbornly ignorant. All of their arguments are generalities. They never can give specific accomplishments or sources to backup their claims.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:32 AM on 03/12/2008

This is funny. There is no way to post the size of the senate records for Hillary Clinton for the 107th, 108th, and 109th sessions, they are available from Thomas. In case you are as stupid as enoughalready suggests, The Library of Congress' Thomas service maintains a complete record of legislative activity in Congress. It is the best place to find information on bills that Senator Clinton has sponsored, co-sponsored, and supported.
You can do the same for Barack Obama. Is THAT specific enough for you????

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:04 AM on 03/12/2008
photo

The reason that both Hillary and Obama are fighting tooth and nail for the nomination is because they each know whoever gets it will be the next President! Americans will not elect a Republican in 2008,period!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:21 PM on 03/11/2008

Are you sure about that one? Both Clinton & Obama have a ton of unanswered questions left on the table and McCain can sit back why they club each other on the head. I wouldn't count your chickens before they hatch.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:51 PM on 03/11/2008
- abot I'm a Fan of abot permalink

I truely believe that most folks do not want another 3 years of Bush.

Yes you always have the hardline partisans that will vote for McCrazy not matter what but I really don't think that the Dems will have a hard time at all with the election cause the nation is ready for change. Just look at all the money the dems have raised and how many folks have turned out at the primaries.

The only reason why the MSM makes a big deal that the Gen race will be tuff is so that you will tune in.

On Bill Maher's show Real Time Mr. Morning Joe said that the Dems are going to win. He's a repub. He has stated that other folks in the MSM have confessed this to him as well.

The dems can have their Donkey run and it would be elected as our POTUS.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:13 PM on 03/11/2008
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The economy will be McCain's downfall. The dem nominee will need to focus on the major changes that have occurred in the last 7+ years due to deficit spending, irrational tax cuts, subsidies for oil companies (use XOM's $42B+ PROFIT for 2007), and the war. The nom will need to highlight the radical increase in the price of gasoline ($1.15 to $3.25), the massive increase in debt that does NOT include the cost of the Iraq war, etc. The point the dem nom will have to make is that allowing the rethugs another 4 years in the WH will be ruinous for the American economy.

Bill Clinton beat George I primarily because the economy was recovering slowing from a mild recession. Economists will tell you that one of the last events of a recovering economy is the hiring/rehiring of workers. That hiring/rehiring hadn't started by the fall of 1992. Hence, Bill Clinton was elected.

"It the economy, stupid,"

Obama08

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:14 AM on 03/12/2008

Hummm... let's see, the psychotic socialist (that would be Hillary) or the play-by-the-rules socialist? Gee, I'm torn.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:55 PM on 03/11/2008

How much do you want taken out of your paycheck? Obama would bump your rate to 70-75% while Clinton would keep it at a modest 60-65%

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:52 PM on 03/11/2008
photo

Based on what?

Link or leave, troll.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:15 AM on 03/12/2008

Anybody who seriously thinks their taxes AREN'T going to go up when the country is coming up on $10,000,000,000,000 in debt is a complete idiot who shouldn't be allowed to vote. It doesn't matter who goes in your taxes are gonna go up. If you McCain, Clinton or Obama isn't gonna raise taxes after the cretan from crawford ran wild with the national credit card for 8 years you're a moron - they need to get raised, and they're going to be raised. The blame for that can be placed squarely on the doormat of George W. Bush.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:54 PM on 03/11/2008

Play by the rules socialist? Chicago isn't called the windy city because it is windy. It is called the windy city because of politics. Barack Obama is a product of those politics. Illinois has never experienced this "change in politics" that Barack keeps stumping on. If you can't change the politics to improve the lives of the 12 million, you certainly can't for 300 million.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:07 AM on 03/12/2008

Hands down, Obama is the best GE candidate.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:45 PM on 03/11/2008
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