Joe Biden On Iraq: Staying Is "Killing Us"

Senator Joe Biden continued to press his argument against the administration's strategy on Iraq across the TV dial this morning. On the Today Show, he assailed both the cost of the Iraq war, the lack of a plan forward, and the fact that there seems to be "no end in sight." "The costs of staying are immense," Biden told Today host Matt Lauer, "It's killing us."

LAUER: You didn't wait to hear from General Petraeus last week. You said the surge is a failure. Yesterday you heard him say the progress is real but it's fragile and reversible. Did he say anything yesterday that changed your mind?

BIDEN: No. Look, what I said was that the military side of the surge works. It's brought down violence. But we went from drowning to treading water. And now we're having 30 to 40 Americans die a month, 225 a month wounded. and we're spending $3 billion a month with no end in sight, Matt. They have no plan how to get down below 140,000. They have no plan how to end this war and they have no political prescription as to how to bring the parties together.

LAUER: In terms of the security improvements that have been made -- General Petraeus laid those out -- with the challenges with the Iraqi government, when he uses those words, "fragile and reversible," Senator, are you okay with the fact that withdrawing troops might take us backwards in Iraq?

BIDEN: No. Look, Matt, we can debate whether or not the cost of drawing down troops will hurt. That's debatable. For example, as many military experts argued if we were to withdraw gradually and more substantially from Iraq, that al Qaeda would be hurt more than if we stayed. I asked yesterday -- I asked our ambassador and I asked Petraeus, where is the greatest threat from al Qaeda, in Afghanistan where we don't have enough troops to fight them, by their own admission, or in Iraq? They said they're more dangerous in Afghanistan. We don't debate the cost of staying, Matt. The costs of staying are immense, as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff has said...it's killing us.

[WATCH.]

Biden went on to correct Lauer's contention that the planned drawdown Petraeus plans will take troop levels below their pre-surge status (they won't - Petraeus plans to stand pat at 10,000 troops over the pre-surge level). He also disputed Lauer's contention that Petraeus' plan seemed "level headed," saying, "It doesn't seem level-headed when you don't have any plan."

Asked to evaluate the performance of the three presidential candidates, Biden told Lauer that he only saw the questions of Barack Obama. He praised the Senator's line of questioning, but continued to withhold any sort of endorsement.

Biden also appeared on The Early Show, Morning Joe, and American Morning.

Comments

[akaJohnQ]

It's a shame that Biden couldn't get enough support to stay in the presidential race for any longer than he did. I wanted to vote for him. He is truely qualified to be POTUS. He has a keen understanding of foreign policy. His assertion that the Iraq war is killing us correct. While other governments appropriate funds to improve the lives their citizens, ours chooses to borrow billions of dollars to fund a war that was unnessary, and that few Americans support . Shame on the U.S government . Shame on the congress for being complicit with the Bush regime in starting and continuing this war. The purpose of our military is to protect the people of the U.S. Our soldiers have been bruised and abused in Iraq because the same people keep going back for multiple 15 month tours. If a situation arises where we are genuinely threatened, our spent military will be hard pressed to respond. Starting the Iraq war was one of the biggest foreign policy blunders ever made by a president, and this guy was rewarded with a second term.

[Neef]

I'd have voted for Joe in a a heartbeat. But I'm in PA, and that ship sailed LONG ago.

It's ironic hearing the two remaining candidates fight over "voters having a voice", when most of the time, we later states have a fairly small set of options, or none. What do PA Repubs have to do on primary day?

Sort of a broken system, our primaries.

[booker52]

Biden has a point. The other senators had points too as to the Iraq government banking their assets in America while we foot the cost of this war. I cry BS. This whole war is BS. Bush and McCain would have us over there forever if they could get away with it. I say end it and end it now. This war does nothing to keep us safe. It never has. This whole General and Crocker dog and pony show was a waste, the person who should of been sitting there answering questions was the Presdient.

[Teritt]

Sorry Ray....Biden is right. All the Bushies have is 'we haven't been attacked since 9/11'. Well let me ask you this: what happens if -or when- we are attacked? What will we have left to fight except a bunch of over-extended soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan? Who will 'lend' us the money to fight back? Do you really think Mitt's sons are going to the front line then? And while you are at it, explain exactly what 'victory' in Iraq is. Let's see - we had Saddam executed, there were no WMDs, they've had their elections, (I won't even bother to say Mission accomplished), and over 900 American soldiers have died since the 'surge'. So what exactly are you looking for before we get our soldiers out of there?

[peaceplez]

We are destroying Iraq, a country that had NOTHING to do with the terrorism committed here. There were around 6000 innocent people terrorized here so WE TERRORIZE (murder/incite murder) innocent people there and ask is "the surge working?" Isn't it time finally (like, maybe, now) to be asking different questions?

[peaceplez]

In respose to the headline "Joe Biden On Irag: "Staying is Killing Us" "

Killing Us? Yes it is (us and the U.S) and I am a very very sad that so many or our poor soldiers have died in this war (that we never should have started ) but PLEASE what about the poor Iraqis...how many innocent people have died over THERE?!! How many lives over there have been lost, what have WE done to that country. A nation that was one of the most advanced in the region is now decimated. There have been polls in where +-80% of the people say they want us out. But no we have to stay..."We're bringing democracy there"

[Raymondf]

Don't critisize the people on here that call us neocons, because all your comments will be removed just like mine were bunch of cowards on this site they just want their voice heard and no one elses. Put my comments back or I will keep you busy eraseing all night because I'm retired, and I want give up.

[CindyKay]

OHHHHHH ! A Good Old Boy , Now That Explains EVERYTHING!! LOL!

[hydethesalami]

You have to know the hearings were catastrophic for the Democratics these 2 days.

Very little media coverage (they saw what was going to happen), Media Matters fell silent, Huffington couldn't defend them, and all HuffPo could muster was from Joe Biden and something from John Podesta !!!!

Soon the donks will refuse to hold any more hearings if Petraeus is going to be there.

[1differentdrummer]

Mr. Hyde, what were you watching?

[Raymondf]

Biden your an Idiot, no wonder you had to drop out of the prez race. You don't have enough sense to run for the county line!

[booker52]

No, you're an idiot. How do you figure Biden is an idot?? This war is based on lies and the General and Crocker are nothing more then Bush toadies.

[boyleebob]

The surge was supposed to give the politicos in Iraq time to work out their problems. Since the original benchmarks have not been met (that's right, benchmarks, remember those?) the surge is a failure. How much longer should we follow this path? No more war for oil!

[hydethesalami]

12 of 18 benchmarks met.

That's 2/3. And progress on the others.

They were of paramount importance in September when was only 3.

Now? Not so much.

The Demagogicrats moved the goalposts overnight Monday after their strategy session to prepare for getting their doors blown off by Petraeus ... and the benchmarks were casualties.

[1differentdrummer]

Come on, Mr. Hyde, what is the troop mission today? Why are our troops there? Why did the US invade Iraq? How will you know when the troops have won?

[booker52]

Those benchmarks are BS, and please none of them have been met. Only in the minds of the Bush toadies are they close. Just like the bullshit war he started based on lies. The goalposts keep moving. The surge is a bust. But that was just another BS move to get more troops into the field. Just like their stop loss (backdoor draft).

[guntotinganglion]

Sorry Joe, you've got it wrong. This is not killing us, it's killing them. Them being, innocent Iraqi's. They didn't choose this war, we did, so our casualties don't count in this way. They didn't attack us, we attacked them. All of our casualties were also volunteers, they went willingly. The dead Iraqi's have been murdered, but we call it war. When it's totally one sided, and the other side never attacked you, and never had a chance to begin with, that's murder. Call it involuntary manslaughter by most of our troops if you like, but it's just parsing the word murder.

So far, based on the worst and best estimates, the percentage of innocent civilian deaths in Iraq, to US troops deaths, is between 99.6% and 95.5%. That is, the innocent dead Iraqi's amounts to between 22 and 300 times as many as we've lost, depending on who's numbers you wish to believe. Bushemada of course, believes the absolute minimum that can be documented...but then, he's an inveterate liar. If his mouth is moving, he's lying.

So Joe, fine to try to stop this, but let's get something straight, Iraqi's are the injured party here, NOT US.

[Neef]

"so our casualties don't count in this way"

A life is a life is a life. Any time you can justify a casualty as meaningless, you're abdicating an important part of your humanity.

The war IS killing us,*along* with the Iraqis.

[guntotinganglion]

I did not say they were meaningless. I said they didn't apply in the same way as innocent civilian deaths which are of an entirely different nature. The dead Iraqi civilians did not choose the risk, the troops did. When you accept that risk, you enter an entirely different realm. And I agree that all life is precious, but some is given willingly, and some is not...and that is the difference.

I also believe that many of our troops went with honor...but that doesn't mean they were sent with honor. Their honorable service has been dishonored by those who lied and cheated their way into this vicious mess. This can only end badly, the only question now is, when?

[guntotinganglion]

Perhaps I shouldn't have said "injured party", instead, "wronged party". All sides are injured in this insanity...it's just that the ones who are paying the dearest price are the Iraqis.

The sheer magnitude of their losses over ours just fills me with a deep sadness for all concerned...including the kids in our army who's lives have been forever changed, and not for the better, by the brutality they've been forced into using by the madness of this utterly useless and unnecessary "war".

[jatu707]

All of you who were paying attention to the news yesterday know that neither of these candidates are going to do what they say regarding troop withdrawals. Biden is the only one who would have brought the troops back in a timely manner. Why? Because he is more that just a typical politician who just says whatever makes the people happy. Sad to say that Hillary and Obama are so driven to be president they will mislead whoever they have to. We will be in Iraq for at 4 more years.

[Neef]

Well, 4 beats 100, so it's sort of a moot issue.

[RocketmanBob]

There was a time when I respected Senator Biden, but that seems like long ago now. One could sense his posturing for the cameras during yesterdays testimony. After condescending both Petraeus and Crocker he made sure that the cameras caught sight of him gladhanding and backslapping the same two men-all the while with the cheshire cat smile......

Joe Biden essentially demonstrated his intellectual dishonesty during the many interviews he has given today. He had made his mind up that no matter what report had come to congress he would feign disgust and act impatient; all the while displaying the well rehersed look of skepticism thaat he and Tim Russert do so well. And how much do you wanna bet that he arranged for the other senators to let Obama go first, and have longer in the spotlight than what was alloted to the other members. Is this some form of senatorial affirmative action, or ios he just making his bid for VP?

Here's a tip Joe. Give up the phony "costs too much " argument now. Although 1$ or 1 life is really too much to spend on this war, it is far less than the number of military dead during the Clinton years, and far less money, as a percentage of GDP, than any previous war.

[JacobSinger]

Let see some figures supporting your claims on Clinton-era military deaths and war costs...otherwise, I'll have to call BS on that one....

[donaldw6]

All but a handful (20? 30?) were from natural causes, accidents, illness, etc. Sorry I don't have the link handy, but press this guy for data, then you can do the research. He's lyin'.

[Neef]

I thought the cost argument was compelling, and it was certainly not the only argument he brought to bear. Here we sit in a recession, I'm not so cavalier about bleeding the equivalent of an aircraft carrier every two weeks.

All politicians posture in front of the camera, but he's asking questions his constituents voted him in office to ask. This is a man doing his job.

[YankeeCanuck]

So, we should keep it going because it's an econo-war?
Our government has failed to act in many situations that called for action-- genocides in Cambodia,Iraq, Bosnia, Rwanda, Sudan, Kosovo to mention a few. Apparently , these situations didn't threaten American interests.
Actually, some of these were during the Clinton years and because of the military deaths we sustained in Somalia, the Clinton administration was loathe to send in troops and risk that cost, and also risk Clinton's dove-ish reputation.Not a bad impulse, but not good foreign policy.

[CindyKay]

Biden ia an Intelligemnt , Honorable & Honest Man !
I have Great Respect for Him & I couldn't care any less what You may think about Him.
I Would LOVE to see an Obama/Biden Ticket!!!

[CindyKay]

Correction: Intelligent

[Raymondf]

What! what! he is with the exception of Murtha, Reed(both Reeds) and polosi. the dumbest people in Washington D.C.

[SonnyBono]

RocketmanBob - still drinking from the same old kool-aid stand.

Dishonesty? So did you bother to mention that the phony neocon figures on military deaths during the Clinton years included deaths by all means - illness, accidents, murders, as well as deaths due to enemy action so the number of deaths due to hostile fire was like one or two percent of the total and no where close to the 4000 and counting under Bush Jr.

Costs? Tell you what Bucky, give the US your American Express card number so we can charge the war to your account and not have to borrow from the Saudis and Chinese.

The implication that Senator Biden wasn't nice to Petraeus and Crocker - what a crock of horse manure. Why should anyone be nice to a couple of office boys for the Bush crime family? Petraeus wears a lot of ribbons for a guy that didn't see a shooting war until the first Iraq war - you remember the one where Bush Senior was smart enough to stay out of Bagdad. I believe that Petraeus was a general in Iraq One - so there was little chance of him getting fired on - FYI, this country hasn't lost a general to enemy action since WW II.

Bill O'Reilly called - he wants his talking points back.

[Raymondf]

You better listen to Bill O you'll be on his talking points next.

[tbone99]

Joe Biden On Iraq: Staying Is "Killing Us"

Yeah ,Joe but you should see the Iraqis.

Truthfully we're getting what we had coming.The Iraqi's hadn't done anything, we've absolutely ruined their country .At least we still have electricity and water.( well, some of us)

[hydethesalami]

12 of 18, baby. 12 of 18.

Here's a prediction about the Democratics. And I'm never wrong about the Democratics.

There will be a point when they can no longer make believe it isn't working.
You will know when that time has arrived because they, and you, will be saying something like
"Sure, things are much better but we wasted 3 years."

Unless, of course, one of the Bobbsy Twins is elected.
In which case, if he/she are really so stupid as to keep their campaign promises, you will be able to see the fire in the Middle East from the space station.

[lornejl]

WMD's, you were wrong, DEAD WRONG.

[Raymondf]

Yes we were wrong after all the dems in the house and senate leaked it and suddam sent them all to syria to be hidden.

[JacobSinger]

Your comments are nothing more than GOP-sponsored nonsense. Sell it if you can; no one with more than half a brain will buy it.

[donaldw6]

Well, we know all the reasons why this is so important to you, and they're all just under the surface. But your Plan B looks like you want to keep things in just enough "doubt" so you can try to spin Obama's Iraq plan as "defeat". That's what we can all look forward to in 2009, a bunch of bitter hawks and vultures screaming at the Democrats for "surrendering".

What an impoverished outlook on life you people have. Which Shia faction will we side with tomorrow? This is nuts! And to guess where your mind is I only need to look at your name.

[Neef]

"you will be able to see the fire in the Middle East from the space station."

Not true.

We will have melted our telescopes into bullets long ago. Along with all our wealth and ideals.

Meanwhile, the superpower NOT throwing away 3 billion dollars a week will be sitting pretty.

[dsbsh]

"And I'm never wrong about the Democrats" tells me all I need to know. President Bush is never wrong about the Democrats either, or about Iraq, or about any policy. Because he knows he's right; therefore, the facts don't matter.

Of course more U.S. troops in and around Bagdad will reduce violence in and around Bagdad (at the cost of more U.S. lives, but who's counting). While the level of violence is still unacceptable, it has gone down. But the justification for the surge was increased stability leading to political progress, to be measured by a series of benchmarks-- Bush & Petraeus laid them out last year. Regarding that "progress," Petraeus had to spin mightily to make avoid being laughed out of the room. What happened to the benchmarks? Petraeus never mentioned them this time. When moving the goalposts ceased to work, they simply removed them. If we end up with a fire in the Middle East visible from the space station, it's because "Bush & Company have spent the past several years building a gigantic bonfire and surrounding it with torches. Calling the Democratic candidates names won't change that fact.

[hydethesalami]

"killing us"?

How about when that military genius, Joe Biden, INSISTED that Gen. Petraeus tell him
[and at the same time AQI, Sadr, etc.]
what exactly would be the conditions that would convince the General that it's hopeless.

Would that have helped them kill us?

Biden is what happens when someone loves to hear himself talk SO much that he talks TOO much.

[lisakaz]

But how is he wrong? He isn't. He is far more accurate that anyone Bu$hco can trot out to lie for their continual cluster----.

[CindyKay]

I can Suggest a Few Places to Hide Your Salami & 1 Includes Larry Craig! LOL!

[BlueBoomer]

LMAO!