J Street :
A new Israel lobby group has launched to combat the dominance of American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) in advocating American policy in the Middle East.
Check out the progressive organization J Street here.
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Shalom Haver LBM,
Your reference to "England" (actually the United Kingdom) owning Palestine and 'giving' it for the establishment of Israel shows little understanding of the situation and obligations under the League of Nations Mandate. It's also worth mentioning that the United Kingdom (Great Britain) ABSTAINED on the UN partition resolution (UNGA 181). As to the nature and character of Palestine in the 1930s, I commend a reading of the Hope-Simpson Report:
http://www.mideastweb.org/hopesimpson.htm
I remain a fellow wisher for Peace and Justice in that troubled land.
Salaam/Shalom
ed
LBM (below),
"If you put this in the American perspective. The Jewish people are the native Americans and the Palestineans are the foreigners who came in and took the land to make their country pushing aside the natives and killing them....."
Not so. The whole area had been mostly Arab for at least 1000 years. Minorities of Jews, Christians and others lived in general harmony with the dominant culture, if not always as equals. Jews began "returning" in greater numbers (but still rather small) in the late 19th Century. The Zionist project expressed the desire to establish a state based upon Judaism, and it's not surprising the long-term resident native population was disturbed by this idea. Your simile is reversed - the Native Palestinians are the Redskins and the Zionists are the European colonisers.
In a number of places, there are records of the Zionist intent to "transfer" the native population out of Palestine in order to facilitate the formation of an ethno-religious Jewish state. This insane idea lies at the heart of the Palestine/Israel situation.
Some insight into why there was Arab resentment of the presumptive Zionists:
http://www.cactus48.com/verses.html
Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Dorood/Peace
-ed
The imbalance of violence in Palestine, as compiled by B'Tselem:
http://www.btselem.org/english/statistics/Casualties.asp
and innocent children killed:
http://www.btselem.org/english/statistics/Casualties_Data.asp?Category=13
Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Dorood/Peace
Namaste -ed
Very interesting compilation of statistics which fail to mention how many rockets per day are launched from the de-facto Gaza state into a neighboring nation as a daily act of WAR.
As wars go, after eight years of compiling these statistics, the total does not come near to a half a year of the occupation in Iraq. What is even more interesting is that the misery of Darfur or Zimbabwe seems to get a hell of a lot less attention from the far-left as does Israel.
Uhmmmm......is this concern for humanity we see here, or an exclusive concern for Israel's enemies?
I mean if we are comparing numbers, that is...
Coyote,
As to your "daily rocket attacks, from the UN:
11 Israeli civilians, including four children, have died since 2004, from the 2,696 Qassam rockets fired by Palestinian armed groups from the Gaza Strip into nearby Israeli towns, particularly Sderot.
total number of Israelis,both civilians and Israeli Defence Force (IDF) combatants, killed by Palestinian armed groups and individuals, is declining.
In contrast the total number of Palestinians, both civilians and combatants killed by the Israeli security forces or Israeli individuals, remains relatively high. In 2007, for example, for every one Israeli death there were 25 Palestinian deaths compared to 2002 when the ratio was 1:2.5.
http://tinyurl.com/yof2bu
Salaam/Shalom
ed
This can't hurt I must admit. I can't stand AIPAC...they are the main reason for the trouble with Iran.
As a liberal Jew who supports a two-state solution, I am not convinced that this additional lobby is a good idea. I would rather see the people here working with AIPAC to create a mission that brings liberal and conservative Israel supporters together. Breaking us up into little divisive organizations doesn't help the cause as much as bringing us all together would. We all want peace.
From what I know of AIPAC I don't think they're interested in having anything to do with liberal Israel supporters.
I just looked through AIPAC's website and I don't see anything that looks geared to conservatives only. It looks very balanced to me. I don't know much about the organization. I don't get involved with lobbies, but it always is better to have one voice rather than several on the same issue. We are all pro-Israel and pro-peace, so we should work together.
LBM Just what do you mean by "the cause"? Unless one knows what "causes" a lobby group stands for, it is very hard to join or support it. Please explain what you think the "cause"is.
Peace in the middle east and a safe and secure Israel is the cause that I'm talking about.
Which "two-state solution" is it that you support?
The "roadmap",
http://www.mideastweb.org/quartetrm3.htm
complete with the 5sraeli "reservations",
http://www.mideastweb.org/roadmapreservations.htm
??? Or a return to the "pre-1967" borders, themselves the result of Israeli aggression and expulsion/dispossession of the resident majority population of Palestine, as documented in the British Mandate's census of 1946:
http://nakbaonline.org/Acre/Books/Story832.html
A good summary history of the conflict from Jews for Justice (not included in the "new" lobby):
http://www.cactus48.com/truth.html
I don't have all the answers and I am wary of information from any website that could be biased one way or another. The goal is to have a safe and secure Jewish homeland that is recognized by its neighbors as legitimate and that they believe has a right to exist. I would support any peace plan that gets us all to the place where both sides of the conflict are satisfied with the compromises that must be made and that they themselves support. My great-great-great-great-great grandfather was one of the founders of the Jewish community of Hebron in 1816. All the Jews who lived there were massacred in 1929 by the Palestineans who didn't like that they were their neighbors. Anyone who thinks that this conflict began after World War II, doesn't understand the history of the area.
I'm really tired of Israel controlling so much of my government. The Israeli government told Jimmy Carter not to speak to Hamas? Who are they to tell him what to do? Obama is called to genuflect repeatedly, to publicly chant "I support the unconditional U.S. alliance with Israel." Why? I don't. I don't support any alliance between the U.S. and Israel at all. What does any person in the U.S. get out of that? Absolutely nothing.
Our money is stolen and sent to support the lifestyles of the Israelis. Why?
If Israel wants two states, if they don't, if they make peace or not, I could care less.
Want to end the fighting? Cut off the money. Israel only continues its genocidal assaults on the Palestinians because the U.S. keeps sending them money. And the U.S. politicians keep sending them money because if they don't, then "support" groups inside the U.S. spend millions to get those politicians out of office.
I want politicians committed only to the people of the U.S., not the Israelis, not the Iraqis, not the Mexicans. Just us. They never manage to do that job, working for the people of this country. It's like we're home paying the bills and our political "spouses" are constantly out screwing around with someone else. I say cut Israel off immediately, 100%. Not one penny more.
Careful what you say - I see a coyote coming down the hill.......
You are totally right, but if you say that out loud you are called Anti-Semitic. You are not allowed to criticize Gods people in the eyes of about 50 percent of the public...which is insane of course.
NABNYC posted: “I want politicians committed only to the people of the U.S., not the Israelis, not the Iraqis, not the Mexicans. Just us.”
.
It was called America First and the movement kept America out of the first two years of WW-2 while our allies begged us for help. America First was connected to American Nazis who feared our involvement. They were very successful convincing the voting population that it was none of our business, that if it did not affect us then it was none of our business.
Our government and armed forces wanted involvement, but we, the American public would have none of it. Until the first Pearl Harbor, that is.....
And here you are thinking that such an attitude is an honorable or rational position. Ha ha ha .......funny.
And the "second" Pearl Harbor so conveniently allowed the current American administration (read that Fascists) to invade our (read that Israel's) "enemy".
Ha ha ha..........Ignorant.
Ditto. you said as well as I could have. Thank you NABNYC
Anyone who is in favor of ending apartheid is on the right track as far as I'm concerned.
but, I am against any additional lobby being created in America for any purpose.
This lobby will most likely just overlap with AIPAC, and will be essentially saying the same thing.
So to the degree that they will be an alternative is unknown. Most likely members of AIPAC will end up being members of Jstreet, who just tone down their rhetoric because public opinion is widely turning against AIPAC.
I hate to be so skeptical about this organization, but I have just seen to much of this sort of thing to give it much attention. Palestinians and Israelis have been fighting for ever, How on earth could another pro-Israeli lobby change anything in that reality?
At the end of the day, the people with enough power to actually make decisions about Israel will never change what they have been trying to do for 40 years. Meaning all that will have been achieved is another Israel lobby in America.
I don't know how that helps anyone who's home is being foreclosed on, or anyone who is buried in debt, or losing their job.
But we can all hope that they actually attempt to do what they claim they want to do. It would be refreshing on some levels.
I think I am willing to give this a shot.
The ONLY problem with the current Israel lobby is that their solutions are all wrapped up in military interventions aimed at extending the reign of the bloody and internationally condemned settler movement.
One thing is for sure though. This group, in order to properly delineate itself from AIPAC MUST come out very strongly against the settlement and the occupation, although, upon first glance, that is what they appear to be doing, which really warms my heart and gives me hope that I might be able to travel to Israel in good conscience sometime in my lifetime.
FABULOUS. FABULOUS. FABULOUS.
Read Philip Weiss at http://www.philipweiss.org/ to keep up with this as well.
Thanks for that link! A good man, that Mr Weiss.
http://www.cactus48.com/truth.html
Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Dorood/Peace
Namaste -ed
A "progressive alternative" is in the eye of the beholder - let's wait and see how they propose to restore Palestinian rights and autonomy before declaring this organization progressive.
Is there an echo in here? Didn't you just say that 4 posts below? I guess you really have no "progressive alternatives" yourself to offer.
^ Stalker alert!!!
So, comments on an article that describes an organization as a "progressive alternative" (NOT my words) requires the commenters to post their solutions? Since when? And who the hell are you to demand such?
FYI: My comments make it clear what I believe the focus of their lobbying should be.
Coyote2- I have, I have "progressive alternative' as you ask for. It is the following:
1. Get Israel the hell out of the occupied lands of Palestine.
2. Get the settlerments out.
3. Tear down the apartheid wall
4. Negotiate with the true representatives of the Palestinian people who voted them in; the Hamas
5. Release all Palestinian prisoners
6. Finance your wars with your own money, not Ameican taxpayers'
These are just to start the peace process.......
Be wary of lobbiest they come with ties and have their own agenda's in mind. Israel can take care of its self. "Israel' involvement with nuclear technology started at the founding of the state in 1948. Israel is a nation with a state religion, but its top leders are not religious Jews. 1997 400 deliverable thermonuclear and nuclear weapons. The secret nature of the Israeli nucler program has hidden the increasing problems of the aging Dimona reactor and adverse worker health effects. Information is only now public as former workers sue the government. This issue is now linked to continued tritium production for the boosted anti-tank and anti-missile nuclear warheads tht Israeli continues to need. Israel is attempting to a new, more efficient, tritium production technology developed in India.-by Warner D. Farr, LTC, U.S. Army (sept.1999) Future warfare Series No.2. In 1980 Israel bombed Saddam 's nuclear plant. Annnddd everyone is worried because why??? They don't need our help but the oil would be good from Iran.
Finally, another group that people can attack for supporting Israel.
Don't delude yourselves, that is all that will happen.
American Middle East policy has been based on demonizing Arabs and de-humanizing Palestinians
It's time for a change
Time to recognize the just and legimate rights of the Palestinians
It's time to recognize that ALL sides commit terrorism
It's time to stop ignoring human rights abuses by Israel
It's time to start looking at human rights abuses by all sides
Watch AIPAC start flinging charges of 'self-hatred' and anti-semitism
Okay, here goes -
Just an "alternative" conduit to funnel US taxpayer money to Israel.
Their proposals on Palestinian rights will determine whether or not they are a "progressive alternative".
Okay, Mr/s. Progressive Alternative, what are your progressive alternatives?
........................hello?.
Do words have any meaning to you, or do you just type nonsense without thought?
I'm delighted to see the rise of this new group. I cannot condone my country right or wrong, and
I cannot condone an Israel right or wrong. I would like to see both our countries on the right
side. I wish you every success, and hope you recruit many from what has been the alternative.
I had hurried off to file my tax return, and thought about your strange choice of name for your
organization. As I was driving it hit me as a play on K street where all the lobby organizations
are, I always appreciate wicked wit.
I better clarify the above- I've asked my moderate and progressive Jewish friends (nearly all of them) why they didn't have an organization like this. The pro-AIPAC friends, I don't talk to about foreign policy at all.
You have pro-AIPAC friends? Do you hang out with Joe Lieberman? : ) JK
I have been asking my Jewish friends why they didn't do something about this for years! To be fair, my European friends have been asking me why we haven't removed Bush for years.
My two Jewish friends who agree with AIPAC's goals and tactics are both converts. We just don't talk politics.
Your friends are supporting a murderous organization thats the cause of thousands of solder deaths and could be the cause of thousands more if the attack Iran. Israel is why they are threatening Iran.
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First Posted: 04-15-08 01:22 PM | Updated: 04-23-08 05:12 AM