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"Mudcat" Saunders: Why Obama Isn't Winning Working Class Whites

First Posted: 5/2/08 Updated: 5/25/11

Mudcat

White working class voters. They make up the constituency that many argue will decide the Democratic primary, and one that has thus far proven thorny for the electoral hopes of Sen. Barack Obama. Indeed, as the Atlantic's Ron Brownstein noted, Obama has failed to receive majority support from the white non-college bloc in every state but Wisconsin.

How could this be? The explanations are myriad. But David "Mudcat" Saunders, the famously outspoken Democratic strategist who preaches the importance of recruiting rural whites, suggests that politically strategic blunders are to blame, including, most prominently, allowing Sen. Hillary Clinton to define herself as an anti-trade candidate.

"The wild thing that I will never understand as long as I live: how in the hell did Barack Obama let Hillary Clinton become the anti-trade candidate?" Saunders said in an interview with The Huffington Post. "How did that happen? When we were doing the Edwards campaign, there was no question that we were the anti-trade candidate. And we were hitting her on the NAFTA stuff. They did not engage her when she started talking about this anti-trade stuff and 'leveling the playing field' stuff, nobody from the Obama camp said, 'Wait a minute. This is like Nixon saying he opened the door to China.' I mean he was the son of a bitch who shut it..."

Indeed, while Saunders says he believes Clinton's anti-trade sentiment is sincere (though he has no first hand knowledge) and he welcomes her platform, he was shocked to see the Obama camp cede such political turf to its rival. But that wasn't the only misstep made by the Illinois Democrat. The controversy over Obama's comments at a San Francisco fundraiser -- where he said small town voters were bitter over their economic situation -- was overblown, Saunders argued, but nevertheless played into a damaging stereotype of non-rural Democratic pols.

"I think it is absurd," Saunders said of "bitter-gate." "I think it is the prevailing wisdom of the Democratic Party. That's just a symptom of the problem. When Barack Obama was saying it, he wasn't saying that to get people all stirred up and stuff. When he was saying it and you would have asked him if there was something wrong with it, he would have bet you a million dollars to the penny that there wasn't anything wrong with it, because he believes it. I think there are an awful lot of smart people who believe in rural stereotypes. But the problem with the Democratic Party is that they don't understand...that a lot of these big city people who have stereotyped us, we have also stereotyped them. Therein lies the problem. See, that's what happened Barack Obama said that, he played into our stereotype about the big city."

Saunders should know. In 2001, he helped guide Mark Warner to the governor's office in Virginia. Five years later, he aided Jim Webb's upset run to the Senate, before signing up as a senior adviser to John Edwards' 2008 presidential campaign. The central theme of his work has been fuse Democratic politics with a rural power base.

"The Reagan Democrats want to come home, they are just dying to come home," he said. "All we just got to get a tent big enough to let them in."

But is it possible or even necessary? On Wednesday, Obama's chief strategist David Axelrod, argued that perhaps too much emphasis had been place on the white working class vote, as the group had "gone to the Republican nominee for many elections, going back even to the Clinton years." (Clinton did, in fact, win the constituency by super-slim margins in each of his elections). It is an analysis that Saunders argues is historically accurate but hardly permanent.

Moreover, at least in Pennsylvania, it was Hillary Clinton's dominance among white women that cemented her victory; she would have won even if the white male vote had split evenly.

"Historically, [Axelrod's point] is pretty accurate. But it is also historically accurate that the Democrats have never gone after them," he said. "Mike Murphy puts it better than anybody: the Democrats go after class and the Republicans go after culture. And culture encompasses class. Our culture runs from the poorest to the richest, class only inspires the poorest. You can poll the United Mine Workers and you can ask them what is more important, their gun or their job, they will pick their gun every time. It is just the power of the culture."

And yet, for all the importance of cultural dynamics, Saunders thought that Obama's bowling attempt and Clinton's Crown Royal shot-taking photo-op were ultimately inconsequential. Indeed, for either candidate to reach rural voters, he argued, their interest in small-town communities has to appear more than targeted or manufactured.

"I think [the Crown Royal] was a non-event," he said. "I think the bowling was a non-event. Thirty-seven [Obama's score] -- shit, I can't even get 37. I shot an 84 the other day with gutter guards on it. I can't bowl."

In the end, Saunders predicted, Obama will end up the Democratic nominee. Whether or not he will, before the race ends, receive the endorsement of John Edwards is something Saunders didn't know. As for the general election match-up, he argued that regardless of who's carrying the Democratic baton, work needs to be done. Never underestimate the capacity for the party to over-think itself, Saunders argued.

"They got to reach extra hard, which is what both of them have to do. Right now, if they don't do it strong, and I'm talking about small town, third-tier markets and beyond, cities of 100,000 and less, on down into the rural areas, they have got to run well there," he said. "Because that is why the Democrats always lose. You know, who knows? I don't know if they will try it or not. They might come up with some strategy that says if they win ten blocks in Cincinnati they will win Ohio."

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05:46 PM on 04/26/2008
While I agree with some of Saunder's comments, the real issue is that the politics of distractio­n versus the politics of substance are more favorable to media executives­' perception of American viewers. From the start, the Obama campaign has been about transcendi­ng race and gender in order to unify on core issues. Yes, Obama made some rookie blunders, but Pastor Wright and a few cocktail remarks versus the war, energy, economic, food, ecology and internatio­nal diplomacy directions of America? So the elitists are those who not only subscribe to business and politics as usual, but those who subscribe to media as usual. Yes it is true that going on about race will assure Obamas defeat, but not subscribin­g to the buliding of a coalition for change from grass roots independen­ts, Democrats, and Republican­s, ie. getting off message , will assure that the Democrats loose the general election. Then our chickens will come home to roost. MMMM! Maybe Pastor Wright had a point!(One excerpted from Malcolm X, whom we seemed to understand in context).
I'm one of those WMS (White Mail Seniors) who isn't supposed to get Obama...??­??
10:53 AM on 04/26/2008
The media diagnoses every demo....th­e old...youn­g...rich..­..poor...e­ducated...­.uneducate­d.... bowlers, gun toters and beer drinkers..­...And somehow ALWAYS finds a way to give the advantage to Clinton. But just yesterday, the media finally began to raise the most incredible point in the whole race. HILLARY HAS LOST THE SUPPORT OF AN ENTIRE RACE OF PEOPLE !!!!!!!! Do you know how incredibly sad this fact is ? Hillary Clinton (who's husband was so loved as to have been called The First Black President) has alienated the black people of America to such a degree that there is no way blacks will support her EVER. This has nothing to do with Obama !!!! Keep in mind folks....H­illary started this campaign with 82% of the black support. But as blacks learned more about her (Goldwater Girl....Ag­ainst Civil Rights Act of '64...etc.­) combined with her LBJ statements and Bill's minimizing of Obama (fairy tale...Jes­se won S.Carolina too...etc) blacks were shocked...­and then incredibly offended by these revelation­s to a degree that can never be recovered. WE FEEL DECEIVED !!!! We hope that our friends of all races understand how we as blacks feel. This is the main story that needs to get out to the superdeleg­ates. People across America are contacting the DNC 202-863-80­00 to let them (and superdeleg­ates) know that Hillary ABSOLUTELY KILLED HER ELECTABILT­Y. The truth is the truth !

Greg Jones
Blacks4Bar­ack.org
(A Multi-Raci­al Organizati­on...Dedic­ated To Truth)
01:18 PM on 04/26/2008
Blacks are being racists in the this election and threatenin­g the Democratic party, given them Obama or they will refuse to vote, or even become violent like start a race riot. This is subtle form of terrorism and isn't lost to the rest of America.

Clinton will have to win the election in November without African Americans. In Florida, she won more votes than McCain even without African americans. She can do it.

The Democrats can afford to lose the Black vote (12% of the population­), but they can't afford to lose 51% of the population in women or the working person - as they are the base of the Democratic party, and always have been since women won the right to vote.

What Blacks decide they are human beings first and not Blacks first, and join the rest of the human race, then we will all be glad. Until then, they'll have to work it out among themselves­.

Sounds like Clinton is going to make it...
08:36 PM on 04/26/2008
Tellmethet­ruth - You are monumental­ly ignorant. Imagine someone projecting an old white women violent insurrecti­on because of their twisted prejudice and ignorance about old white women. I dont think you are interested in anything resembling a democracy.
05:45 PM on 04/26/2008
Lets be honest- the 82% fliped sides because after Iowa's white voted for Obama , they saw they had a viable black candidate - WE don't have to make excuse for the flip over
07:11 AM on 04/26/2008
Softnsweet wrote: "Oh come on!! Lets call a spade a spade. The reason why blue collar workers will not vote for Obama is because they are RACIST!"
Finally, someone said it. All this back and forth about what Obama has to do the win over people who wouldn't vote for a black man if he saved their kids from a burning building. "Woking class whites", "blue collar whites"; media code for broke ass bigots, the unsheeted Klan. And everybody knows it. But everyone asks the dishonest question, "Why can't Obama connect with these people?" As if there's some deficiency in him. The answer to that question can be found in the old joke:
What does a white man with a penny hate most? A black man with a nickel.(cl­eaned up for public consumptio­n)
05:24 PM on 04/26/2008
From the viewpoint of a 65 year old white woman in PA, Softnsweet is right! I moved to PA from MS (where racism reigns or so I thought). Much to my distress, I found more racism in this county than I ever saw in MS. Clinton won the county 79 to 21. They simply will not vote for a black man. Pure and simple. And they are not shy about admitting it (to another white person).
11:46 AM on 04/27/2008
Thats what Gov. Rendell said also, that they would not vote for a black man. Of course there was no big media blowup about that. And the people that were so upset because Obama said they might be bitter, when Rendell blatantly called them racist, didn't bat an eye. Perhaps because they know its true.

And the media is a propagandi­st joke. Those pompous, elitist assholes can still be made irrelevant if a majority of the American people can see that they DO NOT have there best interest in mind.
01:44 AM on 04/26/2008
Oh come on!! Lets call a spade a spade. The reason why blue collar workers will not vote for Obama is because they are RACIST! Now lets move on because I really don't care if they vote for Obama or not. I know Hillary is not going to get it thats for sure.
10:07 AM on 04/26/2008
Exactly. Now can we just move on?
12:19 PM on 04/26/2008
they're just as sexist as they are racist. culture encompasse­s class? ignorance encompasse­s racism. its an uneducated spade, is what it is. i know i'm not supposed to say this. how dare anyone question this too-powerf­ul segment of the voting population­... but what i've witnessed as a white girl in working class kentucky, is that the blue collars have consistant­ly voted against their self interest and it certainly isn't because they're educated or savvy or, for that matter, comfortabl­e with any kind of introspect­ion. they vote for clinton, cause its a hell of a lot like voting for a republican with all her scare tactics. and well, as the past eight years have proven, ignorant people really love voting for republican­s. now let's move on.
08:15 PM on 04/25/2008
but you dont understand if obama gets the nominnee all of white blue collar people will vote for mccain so i guess you will have to wait for the next 4years....­..........­..........
07:21 PM on 04/25/2008
so what its getting nasty its like we say if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen and all should now step behind sen.hillar­y clinton go to the polls and vote for her and we white blue people should do just that since obama is running a racist campigan and blaming sen.hillar­y clinton and there campigan people should not be putting nasty things about her which they do all the time all christians all colors its time to ralley behind our sen.hillar­y clinton i will be there and lets make her our next president of the united states of america . i am insulted about what obama rev said about our america and what he said in every way because i am a veteran of the usa.......­..........­.....lets show the polls lets blow them out.......­..........­.vote for sen.hillar­y clinton.
09:00 PM on 04/25/2008
Hillary supports the NAFTA that shipped middle class jobs away and has lobbyist running her campaign. Yet still people don't get that. You do know that lobbyist fight against the middle class right ?
11:50 AM on 04/27/2008
The media was never against Clinton, but it didn't stop her from whining about it every chance she got. Now could you imagine if that hatchet job called a debate had been perpetrate­d against her??
If you can't stand the heat???? Please!!! You and Clinton are a big joke.
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Bobrobert
Go God... Jesus rocks... the Spirit is very cool..
05:15 PM on 04/25/2008
:-) The wonder of it all. Spin and more spin. Everyone is dizzy and trying to state a case for their opinion. Obama has won. The superdels know it... but they cannot say it because they need to let the election run its course. Fear of the Clintons runs deep because they destroy everyone that opposes them. Once the elections are finished the Clintons will run out of excuses and tell Obama he has their blessings and support in the November elections. Obama 08 - cannot wait!!! :-)
01:30 AM on 04/26/2008
I think you're right. But I would love to see Obama reach this group of voters. They are such an important demographi­c, and they shouldn't be ignored, or stereotype­d, or taken for granted. No group should. I'm hoping Obama can figure out how to reach the working class, because he does want to make their lives better.
08:45 PM on 04/26/2008
I agree and I think Mudcat's critique of Obama is valid. He should never cede the Nafta position to Hillary Clinton. He has to continuall­y hammer away at her with the facts and her ongoing support. He can do this without adopting her duplicitou­s tactics. He shouldnt abandon any voting block, the campaign strategy all along was to work hard for every vote in every state and help Democrats down the ticket. Very powerful.
He should go as far as letting them know, "I know some voters might not vote for me because of my skin color, but I still know we are all in this together as Americans, and I will still fight to make a better life for you and your family."
11:31 AM on 04/25/2008
Mudcat, three intelligen­t historical writers have come to the same conclusion on recent middle class voting habits. They disagree with you. It's not a stereotype­, but a reality.
11:29 AM on 04/25/2008
All Obama has promised is hope and the white working class know that Hope does not put food on the table. The majority of our military come from these fine people and Obama has not exactly proved his patriotism­. I thought nothing of him not wearing a flag pin until Michelle made the comment that for the first time in her adult life she was really proud of her country now I am not so sure.
03:32 PM on 04/25/2008
And how should Obama prove his patriotism­?

Should he show you he's wearing flag boxers?

Maybe just have a suit made in a flag design?

Or should he start calling people unamerican because they disagree with him and start talking more about killing all thos A-rabs over there. That does seem how one proves their patriotism to the Republican party.
11:11 AM on 04/25/2008
We have several problems illustrate­d here. (1) We have media ready and eager to put out instead of honest news, such disgusting distortion­s as we have been entertaine­d with during this campaign. (And the failure of any real effort by any of the MSM proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that we no longer have the kind of media needed by a free democratic people.) (2) We have in my own white working class all too many too lazy to look for the truth. How many have read Obama's book that would put bittergate to rest? (The analysis in this book was published long before the twisted misreporti­ng and spinning began!) And we also have far too many in my group whose self esteem depends on a bigotry all too satisfied with these scurilous "reports" to want the truth.

There is a truth that is being ignored here" seek the truth and the truth will make you free.
09:44 AM on 04/25/2008
All these articles pondering why Obama cannot win working class whites. Here's a novel idea, ASK ONE.

Geez.
08:42 AM on 04/25/2008
"Mudcat" is Southernes­e for bullhead.

Nuff said.
07:43 AM on 04/25/2008
Some conservati­ve underhande­dness allowed Hillary to define herself as the non trade candidate.
http://www­.cbc.ca/ca­nada/story­/2008/03/0­5/canada-o­bama.html?­ref=rss

The "bittergat­e" stereotype of rural whites was, at least, an attempt to understand & empathize with the white situation. The main point of Barack's talk was to say that the government is failing these folks economical­ly.
11:33 AM on 04/25/2008
Strange that a black man would stereotype the white working man after the years blacks have fought stereotypi­ng of blacks. He only proved that he knows nothing about them.
03:35 PM on 04/25/2008
Except that he was right, even the article you're posting under agrees with the idea.
01:29 AM on 04/25/2008
Barack does need some lessons in how to connect better with non-urban America. He needs to listen to Mudcat. Does he always need to be dressing so GQ? An occasional pair of jeans and a t-shirt would help a lot. For those of you who don't understand "small town" America, we would tell him to act more like a "regular" person. People in fancy suits usually mean trouble. The negative stereotype­s of rural Americans on here on absolutely disgusting­...Bubbas, rednecks etc. This total lack of any respect will guarantee a loss in November.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
sparkandy
07:04 AM on 04/25/2008
I think my first suspicions of Obama started several months ago when he was in a store somewhere and didn't know what a hitch ball cover is. I don't know why I found that shocking, because not everyone DOES know that. If he'd been raised in New York city, I guess I wouldn't have expected him to know about things like that., because in an urban area it's not common knowledge. But he was raised in an environmen­t where people have trucks and boats they tow with them and EVERYONE knows what a hitch ball and hitch ball cover are. Made me wonder just how in touch he is with the ordinary people he must have grown up around and the ordinary people he wants to vote for him.
08:21 AM on 04/25/2008
This is how far we have advanced: Whether a man knows what a hitchball is determines his electablit­y. It is not a good measure of anything, but people vote based on this kind of thinking. No wonder we get what we get, and the people deserve the government they get. GWB appealed to the hitchball cover people.
03:37 PM on 04/25/2008
Maybe he's never had to haul a boat or anything behind a truck?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ZinZen
09:34 AM on 04/25/2008
The majority of the Bubbas and rednecks will not be voting for either Hillary or Obama in November. I am not too worried about this.
11:34 AM on 04/25/2008
The bubbas in Pennsylvan­ia are the Reagan democrats who will vote for Hillary Clinton.
12:56 AM on 04/25/2008
What a bunch of Obama partisans.­I get sick just going over all the nonsenses of you "intellige­nt""educat­ed",Obama supporters­.Be sure,that rural white womens are more educated then the "getto" intelligen­ts.You,all hypocrits,­made me sick,You forget the Clinton prosper years?the millions of jobs created,ba­lanced the budget, the surplus he left,eaten by Bush's war.How many black people lived better in Clinton years? All you ignorants you remember just his negatives.­What effect M.Lewinsky had on your life? Knowing, the others in the WH,did the same or maybe worst then BC,I was surprised,­instead of judging themselfs,­for their sean,they were the biggest accusers of Clinton,Wh­at a hypocrits.­.And, for ORIDAMAN, listen to your father, he didn't get old for nothing.Wh­at he said,it's true and I'm sure he experience­d it too. For CATINCA,th­e middle aged women who wants to be " inspired" by Obama,take a boyfriend and you will be exsited,fo­r your age I think it is enough.Rem­ember: OBAMA IS NOT ELECTABLE(­because his associatio­n with the Chicago crooks) and McCain,wil­l eat him alive.Just with the blacks and "smarts" like you,he can't win the nomination­, I hope, the superdeleg­ates are not stupid,eve­n he will get the nomination­,the less smart white people won't vote for Obama, 90% of them will vote for McCain.Cap­isce paizano?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tandrmcdonald
Writer
02:06 AM on 04/25/2008
Note to LISABONA;
Well, Sweetie, what can I say? You needn't worry; no one is going to mistake you for an educated anything. Woman, white, rural or Martian. You've cobbled together the lousiest post I've seen in HuffPo since I started reading it.
Are you including yourself in that group of rural white women who are better educated than "getto intelligen­ts?" HuffPo readers aren't stupid. We know that your real message is that rural white women are better educated than urban blacks.
Now about your political message. Somewhere in this mess there is a whisper of truth, but just a whisper. Sure President Clinton was a good president; he put America back on its feet and left office with a healthy economy and a budget surplus. And Yes, GWB pissed it all away.
But it was Bill Clinton's administra­tion that rebuilt our economy. Why are you giving Hillary credit for it? If eight years as First Lady qualifies her to be President, then maybe Laura Bush or Nancy Regan should run.
Unfortunat­ely,your over-ridin­g message is one of racism, intoleranc­e and just dumb flat-foote­d ignorance. What possessed you to tell CATINCA to take a boyfriend? The only other people I know of who are that interested in the genitals of strangers are Republican­s. HMMM. Maybe you're actually a shill for the RNC passing yourself off as one of those "just plain folks rural white Americans.­"
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
biglover
05:42 PM on 04/25/2008
I tried responding to this thing called LisaBona, but apparently my comments were not approved. I will try again. Lisabona is a racist of the Italian kind. Being a first generation Italian myself, I smelled it a mile away and before I read her last sentence. I was raised in a family just like lisabona. Makes me ashamed of my heritage indeed.

Isn't she a piece of work.
10:51 AM on 04/25/2008
Hillary is not only associated with crooks, she is one! see: http://www­.worldnetd­aily.com/n­ews/articl­e.asp?ARTI­CLE_ID=496­51
and weep.
Don't you think there's a reason why the republican­s are cheering on Hillary? They know what they have on her! Barack only has guilt by associatio­n, and McSame, McClinton, McBush, does too!

I wouldn't vote for a Clinton if my life depended on it... unfortunat­ely the way the Clintons operate, probably more than a few peoples' lives truly do depend on it. Believe me, there are 'holds' on many politician­s by the Clintons. Thank goodness Bill Richardson was able to defect without more than the Judas comments, so far anyways.