31 of 53 teen girls at FLDS ranch are pregnant or had baby

SAN ANTONIO — More than half the teenage girls taken from a polygamist compound in west Texas have children or are pregnant, state officials said Monday.

A total of 53 girls between the ages of 14 and 17 are in state custody after a raid 3 1/2 weeks ago at the Yearning For Zion Ranch in Eldorado. Of those girls, 31 either have children or are pregnant, said Child Protective Services spokesman Darrell Azar. He didn't specify how many are pregnant.

"It shows you a pretty distinct pattern, that it was pretty pervasive," he said.

State officials took custody of all 463 children at the ranch controlled by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, saying a pattern of teen girls forced into underage "spiritual" marriages and sex with much older men created an unsafe environment for the sect's children.

Under Texas law, children under the age of 17 generally cannot consent to sex with an adult. A girl can get married with parental permission at 16, but none of these girls is believed to have a legal marriage under state law.

State officials said earlier that they had found girls who were pregnant or had children of their own at the ranch, but they had not provided more than rough estimates until Monday.

Church officials have denied that any children were abused at the ranch and say the state's actions are a form of religious persecution.

FLDS spokesman Rod Parker said he does not believe the CPS count is accurate. He said that from talking to ranch residents, he believes at least 17 of the girls may actually be adults but have been labeled by CPS as minors.

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Agency officials have called into question claims of adulthood among the girls since the raid and have in some cases disputed documentation provided, saying the girls look younger than 18. Because many FLDS members share similar names and have complicated family relationships, identifying all of the children taken into custody has been a challenge.

"I do have serious questions about how they are determining age in there," said Parker, who is trying to get a better count from FLDS families.

He noted though that since law enforcement confiscated every document that might show family relationships as part of its weeklong raid, the sect is at a disadvantage in proving names and ages.

The latest information from CPS comes with "absolutely nothing to back it up other than it's coming from them, and they think we should trust them," Parker said.

All the children are supposed to get individual hearings before June 5 to help determine whether they'll stay in state custody or that parents may be able to take steps to regain custody of their children.

Civil-liberties groups and lawyers for the children have criticized the state for sweeping all the children, from nursing infants to teen boys, into foster care when only teen girls are alleged to have been sexually abused.

No one has been charged since the raid, which was prompted by a series of calls to a domestic abuse hotline, purportedly from a 16-year-old forced into a marriage recognized only by the sect with a man three times her age. That girl has not been found and authorities are investigating whether the call was a hoax.

On Monday, CPS also revised its total count of children in state custody to 463, up one from Friday. Azar said the change resulted from finally getting the children out of the San Angelo Coliseum and into foster facilities around the state, where they were able to get a more accurate count.

Of those 463 children, 250 are girls and 213 are boys. Children 13 and younger are about evenly split _ 197 girls and 196 boys _ but there are only 17 boys aged 14 to 17 compared with the 53 girls in that age range.

Azar said the numbers could still change slightly because authorities have not seen documentation on all the children and have struggled to positively identify everyone.

On Monday, all were assigned caseworkers, who will work only on FLDS cases.

The sect, which broke from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints more than a century ago, believes polygamy brings glorification in heaven. Its leader, Warren Jeffs, is revered as a prophet. Jeffs was convicted last year in Utah of forcing a 14-year-old girl into marriage with an older cousin.

Comments

[alwaysthere]

A picture of the Mormons pulling their hair out !!

"What !
You did it the way we told you too !!

seems insincere !!

[Trueheart]

It seems to me a great injustice that the few posters here who are trying to observe the legal principles of PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE and BURDEN OF PROOF BELONGS TO THE STATE are being so vilified. There is a great deal of speculation about what actually went on at the YFZ Ranch, but the truth is that we don't know anything for sure because INDICTMENTS have not been issued, and details of the investigation are not public information.

The invasion of the ranch and the taking of all children was done regardless of individual circumstances. Without consideration as to whether or not they were the children of resident non-polygamous couples, or visitors. We should ALL be concerned when government acts with such sweeping disregard for individual circumstances. If you can't see that your own rights are jeopardized when something like this happens, then you will lose them.

Arguments about the particulars of lifestyle and religion are irrelevant here. If young girls were forced into marrying and having sexual relations with men, then the church leaders and the guilty men have broken the law. Their leader, Warren Jeffs, is doing time in jail for forced rape. Lawbreakers should be charged and tried. Children and their mothers should not be punished.

[MourningDude]

Doesn't our society believe in redemption? Doesn't it believe in rehabilitation?

Why won't CPS allow these families with young children to make an oath that they will abide by all state laws regarding marriage for their children? Since they didn't actually DO anything abusive to their children yet, it would be more of a pre-demption. A pre-habilitation.

Instead of thinking of creative ways to punish people that haven't been charged with anything let alone convicted, why don't people spend their time thinking of creative ways to save these families while keeping the children safe?

They seem very, very willing to comply with the state, if only CPS would give them a chance to do so.

[Trueheart]

MourningDude, You ask: Doesn't our society believe in redemption? Doesn't it believe in rehabilitation?

No, I don't think we do. We talk the talk, but we don't walk it. Most of us believe in punishment with no mercy and we do not forgive those who trespass against us. On the whole, we are still living with "An eye for an eye" mentality.

Those who have this ability to forgive are few and far between, but try to recall the inspiring dignity and actions of the Amish whose children were slaughtered in that schoolhouse a few years ago. Oh, wait, I forgot....they are a wierdo separatist religious cult too, aren't they!

It never hurts to remember the words of another wierdo, the "Little Father," Mahatmah Gandhi: "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

[Mariel]

The worst thing I heard about this cult is that they say the boys who are asked to leave, or are thrown out, are told they are on the way to hell.

Sex is not their chief crime; telling people they are going to hell if they don't obey the cult leaders is the worst crime. Of course the girls who leave are also told they are going to hell--but the girls all say they had to run away.

Why is anyone defending these people? Even if they didn't have plural marriages or young wives below the legal age, they are ruthless cruel manipulators. And they think they are so "heavenly."

Yes, that's true in lots of religions. I can sympthize with those who say there should be no religions, but some religious groups do not exert such cruel brainwashing on their children. Kids do need moral guidance and often get it through churches. Or through the effect churches had on their parents, even if their parents are now atheists.

It's not an easy row to hoe, following the Lord.

[Mort]

This group is the FLDS. They are NOT Mormons.

Poligamy is illegal. So to get around that, they have "spiritual" unions. Any girl who has started puberty, as young as 12, is eligible. They're coupled with much older men and told to have children as often as possible, usually every year. Since they're not technically married, all these single mothers and kids can get welfare. Welfare fraud is a big deal with most of these groups. Funny, because their leaders have huge land holdings and interests in large, profitable business all over the place.

So let's see... raping and abusing children, welfare fraud, imprisonment, perjury, to name a few. In Texas, children under 16 and their parents cannot give permission for marriage or sex. There are obviously many cases of pregnancy and children with children of their own. Find out who the fathers are and put them in prison. Place all the kids in homes away from their parents. They're not even safe with their enabling mothers. Shut down and auction off the ranch and use the money to support the kids.

It's not about figuring out exactly how many kids have been abused or haggling over the methods used to age the children. It's not about understanding their religion or being sensitive to their way of life. It's not about our hesitation to break up families. It's all about protecting the children!!! These pedophiles lost their rights when they defiled the innocents. It's time to let the hammer fall!

[BadCompany]

This group is the FLDS.
They ARE mormons.

[drewmarden]

People who usually try to distance the beliefs of LDS and FLDS are almost always mormons on the defense.
Look up the history of both. Not what the churches teach about their history, but what the real world regards as history.
The two are not the same, but are definitely associated by belief and foundation.

[MourningDude]

The only ones trying to link the two are either:

1) ignorant that there actually is a difference.

2) purposely trying to defame the LDS church.

Neither of the above groups is a very good one to share company with.

Anyone that's not too ignorant or lazy to use correct terminology (adding that extra F is SOOO hard...) should do so. Using "mormon" is needlessly vague.

[quadman]

And everybody is supposed to believe that you are an expert on LDS and FLDS doctrines? Funny that you say that as an anonymous participant on an internet sounding board. I also find it interesting that you have only posted remarks when it is convenient to bash the LDS etc. You clearly have an ax to grind and your air of supposed superior knowledge smells of sanctimony and hubris. If you are convinced of your superior intellect and wisdom compared to any Mormon, then you should be able to communicate it without sinking to petty insults and characterizations. Happy posting!

[MourningDude]

Mort, I disagree with you.

People like Warren Jeffs should be prosecuted, convicted, and punished. But the vast majority of these people are honest, devout, and respect the law. Some have said that they were not aware of Texas laws about the age of consent. This does not excuse them, but it SHOULD be considered when doling out punishments, and it DOES provide a reasonable probability that they will change their actions in the future now that they have been made painfully aware of it.

More troubling to me is that all these children were seized based on BELIEF, not based on actions.

There are many, many children that have never been abused in any way. CPS is arguing that because of the BELIEF SYSTEM of the people, they are in danger. They're prosecuting the religion, not the abusers.

Many atheists think parent indoctrinating children with Christianity are abusing them. So if the head of CPS in your state is an atheist should all Christian children should be rounded up?

That's not what this country is about. If you listen to these parents, they will do ANYTHING to get their kids back and their families home. They have been driven to desperation. If someone signs an affidavit that they understand Texas laws on marriage, and agree to prevent any such crimes from happening to their young children in the future, that they're going to be stupid enough to go ahead with it anyway? CPS won't take yes for an answer.

[UncleSquinky]

"More troubling to me is that all these children were seized based on BELIEF, not based on actions."

They were seized because at least one victim called the authorities about being raped. Now after checking/testing it turns out that 60% these teenage women are or were pregnant. That's statutory rape at the very least. So they weren't seized just because of their religious beliefs, but because the sect's religious beliefs appear to include child rape and/or protecting those who are child rapers. You apparently either didn't read the article's headline even, or you condone child rape.

[SuspiciousMinds3]

I have read about 5 different versions of what has been going on within this group and the reason they went there in the first place. These girls were alowed to leave if they wanted to, they didn't want to, the men offered to leave the premises as long as the children and the mothers could stay, they were not allowed to do that. The children looked healthy and happy and the women seemed satisfied with the way this commune was set up, "looking young" doesn't stand up in court and these women can't prove their children are theirs or even how old they are themselves because the state took all of the documents in the house. The first report was that there didn't seem to be any abuse, that later changed to some abuse and now it has spread to the boys have been abused as well. The person that called 9-11 is now a 33 year old woman who has called in before, they have no 911 recording of a call, that is unheard of. They took the kids DNA, which will go into a data bank for the future, they have probably been chipped as well. The social workers said they were dressed as if they lived a 100 years ago, well what about the Hasidic jews and the Amish, do they look modern to you? This is all part of the "Comprehensive Child Development Programs" Separating the child from the parent and nationalizing them .

[outnow]

I just saw the movie September Morning about Brigham Young's slaughter of the 120 people on the wagon train, an allegedly true story. With the controversy about Rev. Wright and the endless bickering about the values represented by religion and the wars being fought over the so-called values has anyone ever stopped to question why people have religion. The FLDS stuff is just more proof of the lunacy of religious followers. I am reading the trial of Galileo - again, lunacy in the solar system . He had to beg for forgiveness each day for saying that the world was not flat and the center of the universe. The priest molestation story. A friend of mine settled the case in San Diego County for $200 million - just for the San Diego cases. The Pope is even sorry. Then the Aztecs were featured on KPBS sacrificing victims' hearts to appease the Gods. Has anyone ever done a reality check out there? If God is talking to you, you should see a psychiatrist.

[helonias]

This idea about the universe did not sit well with the Catholic Church. They lured Giordano Bruno to Rome with the promise of a job, where he was immediately turned over to the Inquisition and charged with heresy.
Dont forget GB

Giordano Bruno spent the next eight years in chains in the Castel Sant’Angelo, where he was routinely tortured and interrogated until his trial. Despite this, he remained unrepentant, stating to his Catholic Church judge, Jesuit Cardinal Robert Bellarmine, "I neither ought to recant, nor will I." Even a death sentence handed down by the Catholic Church did not change his attitude as he defiantly told his accusers, "In pronouncing my sentence, your fear is greater than mine in hearing it."
Immediately after the death sentence was handed down, Giordano Bruno’s jaw was clamped shut with an iron gag, his tongue was pierced with an iron spike and another iron spike was driven into his palate. On February 19, 1600, he was driven through the streets of Rome, stripped of his clothes and burned at the stake.

[gcallaghan]

It's a good thing nobody in the administration is familiar with history or those guys in Gitmo would be so fucked.

[kburlz]

At least it appears the raid was justified. There better be a good reason to take kids form their parents, and it appears there was.

[ljwaldron]

Why aren't The Spears family in the same trouble? Their daughter is under 17 and pregnant. Shouldn't the same 'judgment' apply to stage families? Why do we condone in some what is condemned in others?

[susieq1001]

These kids are not in custody because they're pregnant. They're in custody because there is suspicion that they were being forced into marriage and abused.

[mikatollah]

We are not talking about 15 year old girls having sex and getting pregnant by their 16 year old boyfriends. These are underage girls having sex with grown men. Texas law is very specific about the age of consent, but also factors in age differences. But in no case is it legal for a man over 21 to have consensual sex with a minor.

[klmebane]

i think the difference in this instance is that baby spears was dating this guy for a few years and they weren't that far apart in age. if a 16 year old and a 17 year old have sex its a youthful indiscretion. if a 16 year old and a 56 year old have sex its statutory rape.

[googlymoogly]

Agreed, also its time the US tax payer ends suporting religions. Start taxing churches like any other business. These people FLDS are not contributing only taking like all religions. Slowly helping to destroy the county....

[MourningDude]

"At least it appears the raid was justified."

That's like saying invading Iraq was justified because we've killed so many terrorists there.

The raid was based on a hoax. They didn't find what they claimed they were looking for. Now there are hundreds of innocent children suffering in foster homes.

Was the "raid" even necessary? Couldn't the same thing have been accomplished through the normal due process?

If CPS can take 462 kids in one fell swoop, they can take 10 kids and interview them, then 10 more, then 10 more. They could have taken only the 53 teenage girls, since they were the only ones at "immediate" threat. They used a sledgehammer when a scalpel was more appropriate.

[petecook5]

I didn't know that people this ignorant actually existed in the is day and age. "THEY DUN TOOK MA BAAABY! I DUNNO WHY? DADDY WAS ONLY DOIN' THA LAWD'S WORK!

[CapitalistTool]

Did any of Mitt Romney's DNA show up in those tests?

[mabinog]

Wrong kind of LDS dude.

[hmmmmmer]

No matter what is going on the ick factor here is humongous. I watch these women on the news and the look on their faces and the expressions in their eyes is just plain scary. The 17 boys to 53 girls in the 14 - 17 age range is just plain disturbing. They need to take these children away from these idiots, but if it holds true as it does with many social services inflicted on people the solution may be just as harmful as the problem. The Mormon Church should do something in the line of education, but I don't see that happening. Put it to the Mormons like the press put it to the Catholics, shame them into doing something.

[MourningDude]

These are not "Mormons", they are FLDS. They are completely different, and the "Mormon church" has no sway over them.

[NowhereFast]

They are too mormons, although I would agree that the main mormon cult doesn't own this splinter cult.

[drewmarden]

very clear and sickening as to what your motivations are. all throughout, you defend these brainwashed cultists over and over.
hmmmmm..... which one are you a part of?
far enough away to claim no link to the fundamentalists, but close enough to defend them, eh?
brainwashing is strong in Mormons and FLDS. It's a shame that yours is so strong that you are here to defend their actions.
LDS and FLDS are both brainwashed.

[mabinog]

I was under the impression that the FDLS follow Mormon faith just like the mainline church except they did not eject polygamy from church doctrine like the mainline church did.

How else are they different? Noting that pedophilia, rape are not the doctrine of the mainline church.

[GalaxieGal]

Are you the commenter formerly known as MormonDude by chance?

Your strong support of these actions suggest you may be reporting from deep inside the YFZ compound.

[j.gold]

I believe that our government is selectively enforcing the law by religious bigotry. There is an epidemic of teen girls impregnated by older adult men. This is a large factor in poverty and single parenthood. We need to hold the men who do this responsible for their actions and responsible for the support and care of their children.

from Wikipedia . . .

Teen Pregnancy -Age discrepancy in relationships/statutory rape

Studies indicate an important contributing factor in (teen pregnancy ) is an age discrepancy between the teenage girl and the man who impregnates her. Teenage girls in relationships with older boys and in particular adult men, are more likely to become pregnant than when involved with someone their own age. They are also more likely to carry the baby to term rather than receive an abortion. A review of California's 1990 vital statistics found that men older than high school age sired 77 percent of all births to high school-aged girls (ages 16-18) and 51 percent of births to junior high school-aged girls (15 and younger). Men over age 25 fathered twice as many teenage births as did boys under age 18, and men over age 20 fathered five times more births to junior high school-aged girls than did junior high school-aged boys. A 1992 Washington state study of 535 adolescent mothers found that 62 percent of the teenage mothers had had a history of rape or sexual molestation by men whose ages averaged 27 years.

[MourningDude]

Yep, there was a story a couple of weeks back about syphilis among teenage girls skyrocketing. The rate in teenage boys isn't following the same trend, but the trend among 30-40 year old men is!

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what's going on. But that's all okay, because they didn't try to marry each other...

[UncleSquinky]

j.gold,

You are equating unsystematic child rape with the systematic sort. Yes, there are a lot of underage women having sex and many of them pregnant, but I doubt most of their parents condone or support it. In this case we have a community in which child rape was condoned, supported and protected from the law. I would bet that were there a rich, gated community in which 60% of the teenage girls were or had been pregnant, the law would come down on it.

With individual cases of pregnant teenagers it is a lot harder to find the perpetrator and prosecute, particularly if the girl doesn't cooperate in the investigation or press charges. In a closed system like this sect was, it is far easier to round up the perps and accomplices, i.e. ALL the adults, male and female there.

And BTW, this sect is a fundamentalist sect of The Mormons, no getting around that. They are a flavor of Mormonism. Anyone who says else wise is a moron.

[Ohjin]

It seems as if the definition of BRAIN WASHING (widely used in the comments) is determined by who holds the soap.

[NowhereFast]

Yeah, mormon soap, christian soap, muslim soap, scientology soap, jewish soap...

[MourningDude]

Absolutely. If a Hindu/Japanese/African psychiatrist interviewed your kids, they would probably be decreed emotionally abused and taken away from you.

It doesn't seem like CPS is making ANY ATTEMPT whatsoever to understand the FLDS culture. They're just doing their normal smash and grab routine.

[readreza]

pregnant children, systematic rape, polygamy (it's against the law)...
what are you talking about??
even if they call it a religious practice, finding scores of pregnant teenagers does not call for "understanding their culture", it calls for criminal prosecution.

Any woman who joined this group as an adult and allowed this to happen to her children should be prosecuted. The pedophiles (that would be ALL of the men on the compound) should be prosecuted. And none of them should ever see those children again.

[EileneLepht]

What's to understand?...Dirty old men wanting to have sex with young girls. Everyone gets it. They have a few men with lots of women and girls. Keep 'em pregnant so they can basically take over the world. Boys discarded like trash because they threaten the men's plans. What 14 to 17 yo girl is going to pick 58 yo Norman the Morman over a cute boy her own age. I get tired of hearing people defend this behavior with the tired old logic that it falls under their freedom to "worship". That's a bunch of BS!!! If I said I was into beastiality or cannibalism and worshipped with others would it be OK to build our "church" next door to you?

[mabinog]

MD I don't have a freaking clue what you are talking about. Smash and Grab? You think this is some tribal thing where you go and steal a nubile bride?

Look, this cult is theocratic and authoritarian and patriarchal. The select men of God are the ones who decide like a stereotypical feudal lord who does what. As a mother in this culture you would be told where to send your 15 or 16 year old daughter to be married off to some older guy or someone would just come by and take her from you. They submit to this because of their culture even when they know that the dude who will "marrrying" her is some 50 year old goat. AFAIK there is no dating, no relationship building. Hell this is not even an anrranged marriage it is much closer to assigning a sex slave and personal servant.

[klmebane]

im a little lost as to what "a Hindu/Japanese/African psychiatrist" has anything to do with this topic, dude.

[bygollymissmolly]

I hope that the state holds firm and does not give these women back their children. Any woman who would willingly allow herself to be a baby machine and then turn over her teenage girls to do the same IS NOT A FIT MOTHER.

[hallelujahanyway]

Anybody else find the disparity in the birthrate of boys to girls a bit chilling?
I hope I'm wrong.

[helonias]

A bit more than chilling, Infanticide?

[Trueheart]

There was an article on HuffPo about the low rate of birth defects in the YFZ Ranch population, and high rate of girl/boy births. It had something to do with the fact that although there's a lot of intermarriage, this community has not engaged in consanguity (close cousin marriage) and hasn't been intermarrying long enough for genetic birth defects to show up. But the high number of girls to boys did have something to do with the limited gene pool. I tried to research it, but it was way too scientific for moi. And then there are the reports of teenaged boys who break rules being shunned and thrown out of the community.

[hallelujahanyway]

Didn't that same, or a similar article imply that the young YFZ men are sometimes shunned & thrown out on the *pretext* of their having broken rules? "Sorry, Pardner: This Ranch just ain't big enough for...."

Civil liberties must be recognized and respected by the state! Yes! But predatory cults and cult leaders must be recognized, rejected, discredited, exposed, disbanded.

Freedom of religion for the individual. Yes.

Freedom to entrap and indoctrinate the vulnerable. Um... NO!

Trueheart, not yelling at you.

[doc1400]

ANY ANIMAL CAN BREED