LA Times: Did The US Photoshop Syrian Nuke Photos?

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LA Times   |  Borzou Daragahi   |   April 28, 2008 07:26 PM

Read More: Syria, Syria Nuclear Photos, Syria Nuke Photos, Us Intelligence, US Intelligence Photoshop, US Photoshop, Breaking Politics News
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Professor William Beeman at the University of Minnesota passed along a note today from "a colleague with a U.S. security clearance" about the mysterious Syrian site targeted in a Sept. 6 Israeli airstrike.

The note raises more questions about the evidence shown last week by U.S. intelligence officials to lawmakers in the House and Senate.

Read the whole story here.

 
 

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- MikeDu See Profile I'm a Fan of MikeDu

No water pipes running to/thru the place? Judging by the size of the trucks in the pictures that building's significantly smaller than they want us to believe. I recall the Reagan admin did much the same in the 80's, cam out with a booklet of scary looking cartoon drawings depicting the 'formidable' Soviet military threat.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:32 PM on 04/29/2008
- dr4Will See Profile I'm a Fan of dr4Will

they lied before and no one said anything--why not try again--that's the bush,cheeny mentality!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:05 PM on 04/29/2008
- jake666 See Profile I'm a Fan of jake666

Why is Israel the only ones allowed to have nukes. Maybe if Isreal didn't have nukes, no one else would need them

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:56 PM on 04/29/2008
- jake666 See Profile I'm a Fan of jake666

Why is Israel the only ones allowed to have nukes. Maybe if Isreal didn't have nukes, no one else would need them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:52 PM on 04/29/2008
- noliberals See Profile I'm a Fan of noliberals

It doesn't matter the Syrians wouldn't even admit there was an attack they had to have been up to something. They would have been asking the world to condem the attack, instead they pretended like it did happed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:22 PM on 04/29/2008
- TXfemmom See Profile I'm a Fan of TXfemmom

The Israelis desperately are working with the neocons, i.e. Cheney, etc., to get the U. S. to hit Iran, as they did with Iraq. The Israelis want us to hit what they consider to be their boogeymen and they haven't learned anything from the mess and disaster of Iraq.

They want to give Cheney lies as evidence, and Cheney is using his people remaining within the community to try to justify hitting Iran, no matter what the consequences, and Cheney and the Israelis are as crazy about this as Hitler was, and they are leading the U. S. down the road to destruction, just as surely as Hitler did Germany. Cheney sees his opportunity slipping away and he is using the same lies, distortions, trickery, and TREASONOUS actions which he used to get us into Iraq.

The American people and the media better call his hand and stand up now, or Cheney will do something right after the election in respect to hitting Iran and causing WWIII, if McCain is not elected. Of course, if McCain is elected, he would probably start the war, in any case, but for now, it is imperative that the people of this country stand up and YELL HELL NO TO CHENEY AND THE NEOCONS.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:10 PM on 04/29/2008
- cam See Profile I'm a Fan of cam

The photo may not have been digitally enhanced by hand - it may be what is known as a synthetic aperture image based on several images taken as the satellite flew at an angle over the site. The narrowly focused detail would follow.

Shadows that do not correspond with the objects that cast them are more likely to be associated with ground relief than with an incompetent photo artist.

Moreover, the photo has very little value in making the intelligence case. Even if it was photoshopped it would have little impact on the rest of the intelligence case for believing the site was a nuclear site. The corroborating evidence is very pursuasive - ironclad if you believe the photos of the reactor were actually taken onsite.

The waterpipe and the lack of powerlines supports the argument that the reactor was designed to produce plutonium. All they needed was cooling - they weren't interested in generating power.

Finally, the most damaging evidence is post mortem. If the site was not a nuclear site the Syrians would have opened it for international inspection immediately after it was destroyed. That obviously wasn't an option.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:25 AM on 04/29/2008
- Birdman See Profile I'm a Fan of Birdman

So lets see in your you rmind it is okay to say well I think they did this or they did that to enhance this phote and therefore it is ok to me. Well lets say you are right, and the process as you explain it is benign then why not say so to everyone viewing the picture, that this enhancement is what we did to get the details etc. They did not tell anyone it was digitally enhanced, and why is that? It si possible there were no windows on this building they were placed there digitally to mimic or duplicate the Korean structure to show a connection to the North Koreans and part of the bigger lie to make the connection, see this is a reacotor building, somithing looks familiar, wait a minute... it lookes just like this Korean one, and we know the Koreans are bad bad people. Yes you may be correct in your analysis, but since my government has a habit of lying thier asses off to suit their own needs, you will excuse me if I tend to be overly critical of anythign they say or do, and you should as well, if we do not poo poo these obvious fakeries or at least challenge them on having better proof, them we will contine to have one Iraq aftter another., and frankly I have had enough.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:48 PM on 04/29/2008
- Chavez08 See Profile I'm a Fan of Chavez08

Well, I happen to think it's important to neutralize these middle-eastern countries militarily, pre-emptively.

I believe we should attack Dubai and Saudi-arabia immediately for the safety and security of this great nation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:04 AM on 04/29/2008
- castrochavez08 See Profile I'm a Fan of castrochavez08

Wow cam, you are so smart. You can tell all of this from the photo, sure.

The photo has very little value in making the intelligence case?
Or is it just part of a pattern of lies like WMD in Iraq, yellow cake from Niger, being sold to us by ex-Generals on the Pentagon payroll?

Each of their lies was just one small lie in and of itself, but taken together it was a propaganda campaign.
This photograph is more of the same.
But it is very nice of you to drop by and explain it all for us. Is this your point?
Nevermind the fake photography, forget about it. Syria is bad, really bad, they have nukes, be afraid, be afraid. Did I miss anything?

Your water pipe to plutonium logic is quite remarkable.
Maybe you have a water pipe of your own in use right now, or maybe you think we do. How else could you expect anyone to be fooled by your pro-war comment?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:49 AM on 04/29/2008
- cam See Profile I'm a Fan of cam

If the photo was photoshopped by someone, as the original post claims, then it would be represhensible because it would be distorting the data subjectively. But if it was done algorithmically - say by cross-correlation - then it is acceptable because it is simply revealing information that is present across several pictures but not evident in any single one. It is a similar procedure to taking two pictures at slightly different angles and then viewing them with a stereoscope to see three-dimensional data - the same procedure that was used by the British to detect hidden German radar installations during WWII.

The perception the photo was photoshopped by some propogandist is naive. The photo shows a building - nothing more. Now if the building's existance were in dispute ...?

And yes, if the Syrians were intending to produce plutonium then there are good grounds to be concerned. Certainly the evidence on hand suggests it.

And I am not pro war - just pro truth.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:41 AM on 04/29/2008
- castrochavez08 See Profile I'm a Fan of castrochavez08

cam, to your paragraph #1. Your babble is just another way of stating the obvious, the photo was digitally manipulated and you accept this as fair. Fair would be if they told us of this cross-correlation, or whatever processes they used to change it. They did not tell us.

Naive is a perfect description for the fools who still believe all this neocon war hype. Not many of those left, too bad for you. What is a good word for those who peddle the lies of neocons and their pro war agenda. Chicken Hawk? Traitor? Snake?

The evidence on hand suggests that you are not naive. So what are you?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:36 PM on 04/29/2008
- rroy See Profile I'm a Fan of rroy

Whoops,I just nodded off reading some of the endless conjecture about what is really going on!!
To tell the truth,I can't figure out the motivation or evidense that justified an Israel Air Force bombardment-of course with American made aircraft-of Syrian Terrirtory!
Some of the things that really bother me are;we and our brainwashed leaders continue actions and attitudes that have gone on for,in some case centuries,and simply can not come to grips with the facts that tese attitudes and their consquences are totaly outdated and unjustified.
Just about every action and attitude promulgateed by America and Isreal is a manifestation of continued Colonial arrogance!
We simpy cannot accept the fact that both the U.S.and Zionism are colonial intruders from a foreign land!We cannot and will not stop intruding in this ara and let the people of the area determine their own destiny.
Until some force is placed in power in the U.S.that is capable of thinking outside the traditional Colonialist Box the Middle East and it's Colonialist intruders is doomed to eventual disaster.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:24 AM on 04/29/2008
- bogananda666 See Profile I'm a Fan of bogananda666

Israel is not a Non Proliferation Treaty[NPT] signatory and Syria has signed the NPT. At the behest and with USA equipment Israel, the non NPT, attacked Syria, the NPT signatory, for the ALLEGED production of nuclear weapons although the facts are to the contrary. Let's see a nuclear weapons program without guards or fences, hmmmm. Just when you think, always wrongly, that the Bush maladministration can't get more absurd or insulting they surpass what they had done the previous hour with their insults and absurdities. Anyway, their is something very wrong with the USA having a non NPT signatory, Israel, attack a NPT signatory, Syria. It's total insanity.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:23 PM on 04/29/2008
- PierreLeClerke See Profile I'm a Fan of PierreLeClerke

Maybe the only person this hack job snow job was intended to sway was the decider himself.
incurious george was put in his position because he does not think for himself. Watch him closely when he gives a speech. There are several occasions that george suddenly gets what he just said and is impressed with the text as if he had thought of it himself.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:18 AM on 04/29/2008
- BPCentrisAmerican See Profile I'm a Fan of BPCentrisAmerican

The bigger question is why wasn"t the appropriate committee in Congress not briefed on the fact the Bush Administration was inserting themselves into an attack on another country. The bigger question is, do you really think Bush-Cheney aren"t going to hit Iran without Congressional approval? I think if a Democrat is president elect, you can bank on it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:21 AM on 04/29/2008
- Gargett See Profile I'm a Fan of Gargett

The building looks like one of the 3-D jobs in Google Earth, especially the ?overhang? on the side nearest the bottom of the photo. Amateurs!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:18 AM on 04/29/2008
- ottonomy See Profile I'm a Fan of ottonomy

FYI the screenshot everybody is saying is Photoshopped is part of the 3-d model from the video. There are "real" photographs mixed in with a 3-d simulation of the building in the video presentation. Go to armscontrolwonk.com for the video and photos etc.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:30 AM on 04/29/2008
- Chavez08 See Profile I'm a Fan of Chavez08

Question:

How do you know when the War Party is lying?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:01 AM on 04/29/2008
- LaurieLee See Profile I'm a Fan of LaurieLee

Whenever they open their mouths?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:01 AM on 04/29/2008
- nicho See Profile I'm a Fan of nicho

This fascist administration has told nothing but lies for eight years. I can't believe anyone even entertains the ludicrous possibility that they might now be telling the truth. Of course, they're lying.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:54 AM on 04/29/2008
- escobar See Profile I'm a Fan of escobar

Their plan is laid out in the PNAC papers published years ago.
The vision to establish a New Roman empire in the absence of Soviet power.
It was signed by the most influential men in the country today.
The government has taken out loans to finance two wars based upon lies now.
They went after Bin Laden late then let him go. Now they find others who will shoot back. Where is the surprise? The Afghans have always resisted foreign dominance. There will always be people willing to fight. Especially when they have nothing to lose.
The entire scene has nothing to do with anything but international corporate interests and that of the weapons makers.
Of course, they are lying!
They haven't told the truth since before the Gulf of Tonkin incident.
If the public were not so gullable it would be funny.
There is nothing special about that building.
It could be a school, hospital, insurance company, anything at all.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:04 AM on 04/29/2008
- bogananda666 See Profile I'm a Fan of bogananda666

A secret nuclear facility without a fence, yea sure.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:25 PM on 04/29/2008
- ImmanuelGoldstein See Profile I'm a Fan of ImmanuelGoldstein

And without power lines and a substation. Do you have any IDEA how much electricity uranium enrichment takes?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:10 AM on 04/30/2008
- bob5701 See Profile I'm a Fan of bob5701

Adobe strakes again.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:30 AM on 04/29/2008
- drblack See Profile I'm a Fan of drblack

With the technology available today why trust anything the US government says or does?
We need to send real ,actual people to investigate things. Fuzzy images aren't enough even if they were real.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:58 AM on 04/29/2008
- Americanium See Profile I'm a Fan of Americanium

The fact that people are questioning the veracity of the CIA is a disturbing thing. The CIA has lost a lot of credibility and this will be a problem for them in the future.

People will grow up wit ha healthy dose of distrust for an institution charged with providing the US Govt with credible evidence on which to act.

Clearly the CIA needs to improve its image with the American people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:54 AM on 04/29/2008
- ProfessorDuh See Profile I'm a Fan of ProfessorDuh

The Pentagon lies constantly to the American people. They regard it as their mission. Why should the CIA be any different?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:44 AM on 04/29/2008
- mamacat See Profile I'm a Fan of mamacat

When has the Bush team ever lied to us before? :)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:10 AM on 04/29/2008
- sparkey See Profile I'm a Fan of sparkey

I zoomed in on the picture to 200% and noticed that the shadows look like they were put in with the paintbrush on windows imaging. It doesn't look like anybody even cared to do a half way good job. Whoever did it must have figured we were too stupid to notice the bad shadows.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:01 AM on 04/29/2008
- cruisepuppy7452a See Profile I'm a Fan of cruisepuppy7452a

Like I said, this and the bin ladin tapes are all fakes. They obviously hires some guys who are not even adequate in adobe and assumed nobody would notice. Um, how dumb do they think we are? This is just sad and desperate. Bush can't get his war any other way than to falsify documents. That is treason folks, grounds for a war tribunal to find him guilty of war crimes and arrest him. As for the bin ladin tapes? Anyone else notice how the guy's face keeps totally changing, as in its not the same guy twice? Hello.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:01 AM on 04/29/2008
- axt113 See Profile I'm a Fan of axt113

Bush is wagging the dog

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:31 AM on 04/29/2008
- journey80 See Profile I'm a Fan of journey80

The thing that continues to strike me is that they don't even bother to do this stuff well. I could do a better job than that. Astonishing.
I used to think it was some kind of up-yours-we-don't-have-to-care thing, but more and more you have to wonder if, man, these people really are that incompetent.
On balance, though, I still have to go with the up-yours thing....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:32 AM on 04/29/2008
- skibum49 See Profile I'm a Fan of skibum49

I guess I fail to see the significance of this debate. Of course this is not raw imagery from a reconnaissance satellite. These photos don't show up in 3D format. This photo has been enhanced. So what? Anybody who has experience with photo analysis knows that these photos are often modified as a 3D enhancement will sometimes show details not apparent in the raw image.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:54 AM on 04/29/2008
- laserbob See Profile I'm a Fan of laserbob

What I'd like to know is where are any power lines?.
I've looked closely around this facility in Google
Earth and there are no power lines to be found.
Yes, it's possible that it could have been run from
a genset, but I suspect that except in an emergency,
it would not be a wise thing to run any type of
nuke processing off of a diesel generator. Also,
as this was intended to be a covert facility, a genset
would put off tons of IR that could easily be
spotted by satellite. As would the constant
movement of trucks in and out to refuel the
generators. Also, it's damn hot there, working
without air conditioning would be just about
impossible, and with a building that size, it's going
to be a pretty hefty AC service to cool something like
that down to normal room temps. I've worked in both
Damascus and Aleppo in the summer, and it gets
up to +135 during the day, so this lone building seems
to be lacking the utilities that would be needed to
make it inhabitable for work.

lb

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:49 AM on 04/29/2008
- fourex See Profile I'm a Fan of fourex

yes they did

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:22 AM on 04/29/2008
- JoeBlough See Profile I'm a Fan of JoeBlough

A copy and paste from a video game. You rubes will believe anything.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:17 AM on 04/29/2008
- evilzed See Profile I'm a Fan of evilzed

Are the wonderful mainstream media, who gave us Saddam"s mythical Weapons of Mass Destruction, lying to us again? The answer is yes.
Last fall, journalist Laura Rozen spoke with Joseph Cirincione, director of nuclear policy at the Center for American Progress. Cirincione says
"In attacking Dair el Zor in Syria on Sept. 6, the Israeli air force wasn"t targeting a nuclear site but rather one of the main arms depots in the country. Dair el Zor houses a huge underground base where the Syrian army stores the long and medium-range missiles it mostly buys from Iran and North Korea. The attack by the Israeli air force coincided with the arrival of a stock of parts for Syria"s 200 Scud B and 60 Scud C weapons."
Cirincione says that there is a small Syrian nuclear research program, which has been around for 40 years and is going nowhere. "It is a basic research program built around a tiny 30 kilowatt reactor that produced a few isotopes and neutrons. It is nowhere near a program for nuclear weapons or nuclear fuel," he said. Over a dozen countries have helped Syria develop its nuclear program, including Belgium, Germany, Russia, China and even the United States, by way of training of scientists, he said.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:00 AM on 04/29/2008
- evilzed See Profile I'm a Fan of evilzed

So what is really going on here? Cirincione told the BBC that "This appears to be the work of a small group of officials leaking cherry-picked, unvetted "intelligence" to key reporters in order to promote a preexisting political agenda." The preexisting political agenda may be promoting a war with Syria and/or Iran, or torpedoing negotiations between the US and North Korea. Finally, Cirincione adds ominously "If this sounds like the run-up to the war with Iraq, then it should."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:04 AM on 04/29/2008
- Rog49Thomas See Profile I'm a Fan of Rog49Thomas

First, there is an extensive discussion at the LA blog article referenced here pro and con as to why the picture is or isn't "photo shopped". That really needs to be read.

Second, whether the picture is or isn't photo shopped is an important issue and no doubt one's conclusion may well be driven more by ideology than fact.

What's very interesting is what this demonstrates about the level of credibility of Pan's Administration.

That the allegationof photo-shopping is not dismissed out of hand.

It shows the profound damage that Pan has done to our national credibility. Which like it or not is an important "weapn" in advancing our national security interests.

Third, I just can't resist ....

"The British Government has learned that Bashir Al Assad recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Bob Novak."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:52 AM on 04/29/2008