Jim Webb Speaks Out On Race, Addresses Grievances Of White America

It's refreshing when someone makes the effort to advance the discussion of this year's election beyond debating a black/white divide. So when that someone is oft-mentioned potential Democratic running mate Jim Webb, it's worth taking note.

Webb appeared on Morning Joe today to speak about his newest book, A Time to Fight: Reclaiming a Fair and Just America, and to dodge questions about whether he would accept a spot on Barack Obama's presidential ticket. But since the Kentucky primary had just provided pundits with fodder to discuss the ever-popular "Does Obama have a working whites problem?" Webb weighed in on the election results and his Scots-Irish heritage.

The Virginia senator suggested that race is indeed a factor in Obama's poor performance among white voters along the east of the country, saying, "we shouldn't be surprised by the way they're voting now." But he bristled at what he suggested is a simplistic interpretation of the issue. "When I hear people say this is racism, my back gets up a little bit, because that's my cultural group."

Webb sought to explain what motivates Scots-Irish Americans. First, says Webb, it's not a generic race or geographic label, but rather "a very powerful cultural group that's always underestimated, and it's not always in the Appalachian mountains." And the issue is not Obama himself, who Webb thinks is "saying a lot of good things that will appeal to this cultural group in time."

Rather, Webb -- whose previous book Born Fighting explores the effect of Scots-Irish culture on America's formation -- argued that Scots-Irish voters' unwillingness to support Obama is less about the candidate himself, than about a sense of injustice among the community manifested by the government assistance afforded to minorities in the post-Civil Rights Era:

This isn't Selma, 1965. This is a result of how affirmative action, which was basically a justifiable concept when it applied to African Americans, expanded to every single ethnic group in America that was not white, and these were the people who had not received benefits and were not getting anything out of it. And they're basically saying let's pay attention to what has happened to this cultural group in terms of opportunities.

Webb even drew a parallel between this bloc and African Americans, suggesting that their grievances with and needs from the federal government are remarkably similar.

Black America and Scots-Irish America are like tortured siblings. They both have long history and they both missed the boat when it came to the larger benefits that a lot of other people were able to receive. There's a saying in the Appalachian mountains that they say to one another, and it's, "if you're poor and white, you're out of sight." ...

If this cultural group could get at the same table as black America you could rechange populist American politics. Because they have so much in common in terms of what they need out of government.

A powerful coalition indeed. If only there were two politicians who understood these cultures, and had the desire and capacity to unite them for a common cause...

[WATCH -- race discussion starts at 4:30]

Comments

[epictetus]

01:20 PM on 05/25/2008

Interesting. In his book "Black Rednecks and White Liberals", Thomas Sowell argues that contemporary black urban culture adopted many of it's features from poor Southern whites, especially the Scotch-Irish and others who lived on the border of Scotland and England.

I'm not sure if I agree with the thesis of his title essay, but many of his points are compelling. Contemporary black culture was certainly not brought from Africa.

[Raymondf]

01:15 PM on 05/25/2008

Whats Scotts-Irish got to do with anything, with only being 1% of the population.

[Raymondf]

01:12 PM on 05/25/2008

Although I think she would like to unite the party. She will not take second place, she may campaign for Obama, but she is not interested in second place.

[peacebypiece]

02:29 PM on 05/25/2008

Ray, the "two" Mr Thomas is referring to are Obama and WEBB, not "she" (Hillary).

[Raymondf]

01:03 PM on 05/25/2008

I hope Obama chooses Webb as his running mate, then I know McCain can beat him, I use to live in Virginia although he has a good military record, he is a joke.

[DDDOOONNN]

11:53 AM on 05/25/2008

Webb shouldn't steal this VP from Hillary....It is Hillary's right to take or leave it.

[Ashera]

10:16 AM on 05/25/2008

For just all these reasons, we must bring the round table discussions and lift this country higher in all scenarios. So far the Senator Obama, of White and Black Heritage, but some are still looking through dim broken (thoughts) glasses! Has shown that it doesn't matter who and where one comes from, if one takes the hard and truthful road, given all the chances to learn from others either positive/negative situations, one can cultivate oneself to a level where others will come and assemble.

To date, once a Clinton supporter, now a Obama supporter and as a 60+ Single Parent White Female, lets refuse to turn back history, only to learn from it and move forward for future generations. Remember, White Females received the vote first, other races who where corraled into the dark skin category, came last! Unity not division in fears as Clinton has campaigned on.

Lets really take this verse to heart "The UNITED States of America"! "For ALL The People"
And, live accordingly, we have arrived to the Historical part in USA, as bringing together a better country.

[letuckerchicago]

02:40 PM on 05/25/2008

For readers who are interested in a serious, thoughtful consideration of these issues, I urge you to check out the sermons being delivered at Trinity UCC - yes, that Trinity - this Sunday, May 25th. The theme of each sermon is "A sacred conversation on race." The first two sermons this morning were delivered by White female theologians (yes, White people both worship and preach at Trinity!) You can check out the monring services on demand and also go to the site for the live webcast of the 6 PM (CST) service. Check it out at the Trinity website: www.tucc.org

Hope trumps fear!

[mamacat]

01:40 AM on 05/25/2008

I always loved the way that MLK could connect with all Americans, including Whites. Even when he was personally leading protests against institutionalised racism, he never made us feel that he was attacking "White America." It may be difficult for minorities to understand, but most of the White's in this country can't afford to be members of any country clubs. MLK was so extraordinarily visionary, in that he understood so much about American society. It may have been true that 99.9% of the richest 2% were White, but there were and are a whole lot of hard working poor Whites, as well.

Whlie I have seen some signs that Sen. Obama has the vision of MLK, I have seen no indication whatsoever that he is tainted by the bitterness of a Rev. Wright, or the intolerance of a Pastor Hagee.

By the way, Sen. McCain is helping to perpetuate educational disadvantages, by saying that today's veterans should not be entitled to educational benefits after only one enlistment. I think he does not understand that not everyone has the advantages that come with having a father and a grandfather who were four-star admirals. Some of us, in fact most of us, cannot afford to go to college. The GI Bill was a huge help to me after the Vietnam War, and I think that McCain is the one who is out of touch with the needs of our veterans, not Obama.

[RJII]

05:39 PM on 05/24/2008

HELLO! White woman, somehow determined a minority, are some of the biggest beneficiaries of Affirmative Action.

Also, 8a contracts set aside for minority business owners are repeatedly given to white women that have been set up as fronts for their husband's businesses. Seen it over and over and over again.

And don't get me started on the cash cow called the Farm Bill that pays rich to middle class farmers subsidies (welfare) costing over $300 billion. In many cases, farmers who earn million dollar profits get checks in the hundreds of thousands each year for nothing. Sorry Scots, get in line.

[rowzeer]

01:31 PM on 05/25/2008

That is true, white women are the biggest beneficiaries of affirmative action. Corporate welfare is abundant, but you don't hear us complaining about that.

[Arleang]

12:29 PM on 05/24/2008

What Webb says is true and what John Edwards and Jesse Jackson said is true. Jesse Jackson and his Rainbow Coalition may have been ahead of its time but it basically addressed poverty . . . not black poverty but poverty among people of all colors. John Edwards has the same message. This should be the message of the Democratic Party.

Why can't the body politic accept the fact that poverty produces intolerance because everyone is fighting for a piece of the pie . . . not trying to make the pie larger and serving a piece to everyone?

Words do matter. We need to find the words and the speakers who can talk to all Americans. If we can't make America the land of opportunity for all and tolerance for all, in truth, we are all lost.

[mjc]

04:42 PM on 05/24/2008

And....., in that same vein, why hasn't Obama been more interested in eliminating poverty? You really don't hear him say much about it. My reason, he doesn't really feel that connected to poverty among blacks even in the City he began working in. Perhaps his skills, his degrees, his presence don't have any relevance.

[epictetus]

03:32 AM on 05/25/2008

Why hasn't he been talking about poverty?

I wondered if he would begin to address poverty more prominently after Edwards dropped out. I think he probably chose not to adopt Edwards' talking points because it would have distracted from the message that he'd been delivering. It's disconcerting to see a candidate change their positon too quickly, it makes them seem unworthy of trust.

He doesn't talk about poverty as directly as Edwards did, but his goals are in line with making life easier to afford for all Middle and Low income Americans. He constantly talks about the problems with a lack of affordable health care, and with home foreclosures, and the fact that gas prices are rising(along with everything else). Addressing these issues will help Low-income Americans disproportionately. It will help them more than other groups, and I don't see a problem with that, I'm sure Obama doesn't either.

[cmbaldwin]

10:42 AM on 05/25/2008

Where have you been mjc? He talks about addressing poverty and social injustice often. He certainly hasn't had the privileged upbringing of a Clinton or a McBush

[educated]

05:40 PM on 05/24/2008

Amen !!!
Arleang, There is no better words to described race, poverty & anger relationship as you did. We as an American & Human have to start understanding the other side.
I have been watching Jim Webb from his last senate bid and I am impressed by his outlook.
Obama & Webb can bring the dream of our founding fathers. And enlighten the rest of the humanity.

[dlbdpb]

11:00 AM on 05/24/2008

Even though Webb could stand toe to toe with McCain on anything military, I don't
believe his theory and don't want him for the V.P.
I believe there are just alot of ignorant people in this country
that do not read, listen or investigate anything. It's
like the ones who watch Fox news, they always mouth the same lies and want
others to think they
are intelligent.

[StephenJK]

11:01 AM on 05/25/2008

So you believe that racism is acceptable in mainstream America?

[DelvinMcGee]

02:08 PM on 05/25/2008

do those "ignorant" people include the 90+% of blacks who vote democratic, or the 95% of blacks who are supporting their black candidate? Or are you just a hypocrite?

[Magno]

09:44 PM on 05/23/2008

James Webb for Vice President. I spoke to Barack Obama last night in Hollywood Florida the Westin Diplomat hotel event and told him that as a veteran I would love for him to pick Webb and Bill Richardson as Secretary of State would be good too.

OBAMA WEBB a winning combo America

[kroses98]

03:56 PM on 05/24/2008

AMEN, "Magno," you are absolutely correct about that! I have been thinking of Webb for this slot, during the entire campaign.

He would be perfect!

*OBAMA-WEBB/ '08*

[DDDOOONNN]

11:40 AM on 05/25/2008

Does Webb has supporters like Hillary and the hard-working white Americans

[Donnat]

04:52 PM on 05/23/2008

Guess Webb is going to be Obama's pick, since he's suddenly in the news all the time and now he's talking about affirmative action.

But Scottish Americans a down trodden group? What about Andrew Carnegie?

three 'low income' voters from WV were shown in a brief clip on the Daily Show; one said race was the reason she didn't support Obama, another said it was because he was a Muslim and the third one said it was because his middle name was Hussein, I guess that meant he was a muslim by default.
They weren't edited or taken out of context.

So, I think the 'problem' that Obama has with 'Appalachian' voters is that they are dumber than cinder blocks.

[mjc]

11:30 AM on 05/24/2008

Those are the kind of comments I am sure Senator Webb would deplore. The Scotch Irish are folks like Daniel Boone who were explorers, individualists, pragmatists who were always on in the lead on the American frontier. They moved west and south in order to find the wealth of that particular day, land. Andrew Carnegie certainly was a pioneer too, but in corporate enterprise, not land acquisition. But they are also the folks that economic circumstances left behind, especially in the south. They were referred to as "white trash" by more prosperous whites and for the most part their dislike of blacks was in part due to their place on the ladder of prosperity. Blacks were a step down from them, in their view. And even after slavery was ended there was a resentment for blacks gaining anything, political office, the right to vote, property. During Reconstruction it seemed as if blacks got a lot of things that the poor whites didn't, and couldn't, get like political office, representation in the national government, and property. The rise of the KKK and a change in political representation in Washington and in local units took most of those gains away, but still, the poor whites really didn't benefit from the return to unequal justice. But the bitterness about the blacks remained, probably through the 1970s in some places.

[chappelforpres]

08:27 PM on 05/24/2008

One part of me certainly comprehends the confining box poverty, isolation and cultural ignorance places on these rural Scotch-Irish descendents. On the other hand, their limiting view of blacks as inferiors, or their deep seated resentment of black accomplishments, no matter how insignificant, is a self-defeating mechanism that ultimately fails to compensate for their low social status.

It's ironic that they would shun a black candidate whose tenor on education, jobs health care and paths of opportunity, would do more to improve their individual lives than any other candidate. Instead, their vote will turn on race, fear, war, welfare, immigration and a host of other typically conservative issues completely unrelated to their marginal existence. Issues devised to deflect their anger, instead of focusing it squarely on the abject poverty, political apathy and lack of opportunity they're mired in. At what point must they actually blame themselves for the bleakness of their lives?

[Argente]

04:36 PM on 05/23/2008

Perhaps Sen. Webb should get out of Fairfax County more often. Despite his notion that the Scots-Irish are a close-knit group, the population of West Virginia seems to be a cultural group unto its own: 95% White and 3% African American; 99% of the total population was born in West Virginia; of people over 25, 57% did not graduate high school. As the numbers show, the majority of the people of WV are undereducated, culturally inbred white people. Attributing the voting behavior of West Virginia to their Scots-Irish heritage only serves to defame that ethnic group.

[mjc]

11:35 AM on 05/24/2008

Maybe you ought to travel a bit more in the State. Charles Town, Shepherdstown, Charleston, etcetera, do not have many culturally inbred white people, are quite affluent, and well-educated, and lots of the population increase is from folks who have retired there, not born and bred. Have relatives who live there and they would laugh their heads off if you suggested that to them.

[GeorgeGlass]

03:26 PM on 05/23/2008

I think Webb gets himself into some trouble by saying other minority groups don't deserve to get affirmative action. Latinos, Asian-Americans, and Native Americans have historically faced just as much discrimination as African-Americans. But to his larger point, that affirmative action should be class based instead of race or ethnicity based, I agree with him. The student from a poor school where most don't graduate who gets a 1200 on his/her SATs should get more credit for that than the student from a top-notch private school who also gets a 1200. Or at the very least the fact that they achieved this score despite a tougher upbringing should be a consideration in accepting them to a university.

I also think its high time we get rid of allowing children of alumni of top schools to receive special preferences when applying to the school. You never hear the people who want to do away with affirmative action call for this practice to go away as well even though it is completely unfair.

[afgail]

01:15 PM on 05/24/2008

I agree. If the legacy admission was banned George Bush would have had to attend a junior college as a stepping stone to get into a 4 year college.

[rowzeer]

01:39 PM on 05/25/2008

What.... he never would have been able to get into a four year college. He wasn't even admitted into the University of Texas because he was so mediocre.

[BryantG]

07:38 PM on 05/24/2008

Only AAs were enslaved for nearly three centuries, a condition, the legacy of which is a peculiar set of problems perhaps requiring a uique set of remidies.

[jerzyjc16]

01:26 PM on 05/23/2008

I love James Webb, but let's be honest: Affirmative action or no, African Americans as a group lag behind all others in real income growth, life-expectancy, asset accumulation and just about any other metric. How can anyone support the idea that minority groups have been "sitting at the table" and, I guess, in Jim Webb's view, feasting at the expense of poor whites? Just to whom and where have we seen all of these incredible benefits go? Poor and working-class whites need to understand--and Webb should be helping them to understand--that their interests lie with other poor and working-class citizens, not against them.

The perception is real, but it's a seriously misguided one and Hillary reinforced it big time when she applies the term "hard-working" to white people--as if they alone are working and Blacks are not ("welfare queen" anyone?). Nixon, Reagan, Bush Sr. and Jr. have all used the code and capitalized on the fears and insecurities of white working class and poor people. It's in the playbook. Come on, Jim, wake up and use your heritage and influence to tell it like it is!

[StephenJK]

11:12 AM on 05/25/2008

"Poor and working-class whites need to understand--and Webb should be helping them to understand--that their interests lie with other poor and working-class citizens, not against them."

So when will they benefit from affirmative action?