Clinton's Choice: Scorch The Earth Or Prepare To Fold

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First Posted: 05-30-08 07:01 PM   |   Updated: 06- 7-08 05:12 AM

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Hillary Clinton

Clinton campaign operatives face a crucial decision Saturday morning.

Their first alternative is to go into the Rules and Bylaws Committee (RBC) meeting with a scorched earth strategy: refuse compromise and keep the dispute over the Florida and Michigan delegations alive all the way to the August convention.

The second choice would be to go for a partial victory that would grant some legitimacy to the Florida and Michigan primaries. That, in turn, would strengthen Hillary Clinton's claim that she has won the popular vote by adding the 1,185,359 votes that she won in Florida and Michigan to her total, and the 569,041 votes Barack Obama won in the two states to his total - with a net Clinton pickup of 616,318 votes.

The Obama forces face a similarly tough set of choices: whether to agree to a compromise tilted in Clinton's favor in order to resolve the issue and prevent a convention floor fight, or go to the mat in an attempt to gain as many possible delegates out of the deal as possible.

On the surface, the Clinton forces have a weak hand, their own representatives on the 30-member RBC split between the goal of winning the nomination and refusing to push the rules to the breaking point.

That does not, however, guarantee that Clinton will emerge the loser. Instead, the RBC session could well reach an impasse, with no majority emerging for any solution to the issues of seating the disputed Florida and Michigan delegations.

That outcome would have the potential benefit to Clinton of having an issue to raise at the Denver convention in August. If, as some Clinton backers continue to hope, a new controversy emerges to damage Obama's bid along the lines of Jeremiah Wright's videotaped sermons, having a procedural vote on hand can prove to be a vehicle to force more debate and to raise more doubts.

Today, less than 24 hours from the start of the RBC session, some Clinton loyalists on the Rules Committee are publicly questioning whether they would support Clinton's demand for seating all the Florida and Michigan delegates with full voting rights.

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Donald Fowler, a former chairman of the Democratic National Committee and the South Carolina Democratic Party, said that in the case of the 210-member Florida delegation elected on January 29, "I'm going to have to think long and hard before I support the position that we won't settle for anything less than 100 percent. There are institutional concerns that have to be respected."

Instead, Fowler indicated he is inclined to back seating the Florida delegates with the proviso that they get only half a vote each. The case of Michigan, where Obama did not appear on the January 15 primary ballot, is a far more difficult state to find an acceptable solution for, Fowler noted.

Another key pro-Clinton member of the RBC, Elaine Kaymark, holds similar concerns to Fowler but, in a brief phone interview as her plane was about to take off from Boston to Washington, she would only say "I don't know yet," in response to questions about how she intends to vote.

The Democratic Party in 2007 voted to strip Michigan and Florida of all their convention delegates if they went ahead with plans to hold January primaries in violation of party rules prohibiting contests before February 5, with exceptions for Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada. Florida and Michigan went ahead anyway, and Clinton won the popular vote in both states.

Since then, everyone, including Clinton and Obama, have agreed that both populous and highly important battleground states should have some representation at the convention in order to prevent alienating voters in Michigan and Florida, potentially fatally damaging the chances of the Democratic nominee in November.

While the Clinton forces are divided, that does not mean that the Obama backers will emerge winners.

Obama's operatives have pointedly avoided explicit descriptions of their goals at the RBC session - "We're of course going to and have been working towards a fair and equitable resolution to the seating of the delegations," said spokesman Bill Burton.

In a conference call earlier this week, Obama campaign manager David Plouffe said "we've been clear for some time now that we're open to some compromise that's fair," adding: "the attention of both the voters and the parties is quickly turning toward the general election so we're hoping that, you know, there can be some reasonable resolution on Saturday."

Other sources, however, say that the Obama campaign would accept the Florida half-vote solution, which would give Clinton a net gain of roughly 19 delegates -- no where near enough to catch up to Obama.

The more difficult issue for Obama and Clinton is the 156-member Michigan delegation. Since Obama did not appear on the ballot at all, there are no delegates pledged to him. Hillary won 55 percent, while "uncommitted" took 40 percent, and the rest went to minor candidates.

A number of Obama's supporters contend that at least 40 percent of the Michigan delegates should be assigned to him. The proposal they are actually preparing to press would be to declare the Michigan contest to be an unfair test, and seat all the delegates, splitting them right down the middle, 50-50, between Clinton and Obama.

In the case of Michigan, however, the Clinton forces appear to be unanimous in their view that she should get at least 55 percent of the state's delegate votes. They are, in addition, deeply skeptical of, if not explicitly opposed to, the assignment of any Michigan delegate votes to Obama.

Clinton supporters Harold Ickes, her chief delegate hunter, and Fowler - both masters of party rules - contend that delegates chosen by voters casting ballots for "uncommitted" cannot be assigned to a specific candidate by the Rules Committee.

They argue that to do so would be to impute an unknowable motivation on the part of the voter, a theoretically dangerous step for any political body to take.

"Giving us no delegates in Michigan," Plouffe countered, would not be "terribly reasonable."

Clinton campaign operatives face a crucial decision Saturday morning. Their first alternative is to go into the Rules and Bylaws Committee (RBC) meeting with a scorched earth strategy: refuse comprom...
Clinton campaign operatives face a crucial decision Saturday morning. Their first alternative is to go into the Rules and Bylaws Committee (RBC) meeting with a scorched earth strategy: refuse comprom...
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Hey NDW,
You want to go back and complain about Clinton voting for the Iraq War, then why don't you ask
Obama why he voted for the Protect America Act this past August, 2007.
Iraq was decided when the country was in a state of chaos. There were some, like myself, that argued to let the United Nations continue doing what it was doing. That there was finally some progress being made.
PAA is a further loss in our civil liberties. Beig an independent I'd think that you be against that.
It seems that in recent times democrats have decided that it's ok to destroy our civil rights. This flies in the face of what the party should be standing for.

So... I ask you.. is this a real democrat or a fringe element liberal?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:50 PM on 06/01/2008
- vsign I'm a Fan of vsign 35 fans permalink

Obama is now in control of the Democratic Party machinery as demonstrated in the Rules and Bylaws Committee. His first act of control is to get his solution to the votes in Florida and Michigan out of this committee. He just made each voter in these two states worth only 1/2 that of other voters in the rest of the 48 states. In Michigan, he took 600,000 votes away from Hillary and just gave them to himself.

Yessum Mr President Dictator Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:46 PM on 05/31/2008
- Cunningham I'm a Fan of Cunningham 127 fans permalink
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Obama did nothing what you claim, nor is he what you disgustingly claim.

If you can't get a life, at least buy a clue.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 AM on 06/01/2008
- McPander I'm a Fan of McPander 4 fans permalink

now its tome to clean out the DNC of the remaining DLC people

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:37 AM on 06/01/2008

Excuse me, you are side-stepping the FACT that is has been Hillary who has made this a major issue... Mr. Obama has done nothing to stand in her way. Do you have a problem understanding how the Democratic process works and why such a process exists? FAIRNESS! As for the "yessum" remark... that is definitely a racist slur...shame on you!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:46 AM on 06/01/2008
- liseworks I'm a Fan of liseworks 142 fans permalink
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Imagine Hillary trying to negotiate : anything if she were Prez -
I can't.

It's all so exhausting ......

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:22 PM on 05/31/2008
- tellinya I'm a Fan of tellinya 2 fans permalink

Folks Ive been saying for days now and their are atricles that agree that the Clinton camp cant quit due tot he promises they made to large Donor/Investors.
Theyre going to use this as an excuse to go to the convention. Plus theyll stab Kennedy in the back by arguing that he went with a lot less delegates.
Theyre boxed in the 700 million bucks.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:04 PM on 05/31/2008
- dawlishgal I'm a Fan of dawlishgal 222 fans permalink
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Are you saying that the Clintons (in their separate beds) can expect to wake up next to a horse's head?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:37 PM on 05/31/2008
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Here's my prediction:

HRC will continue her nomination fight, against any type of Florigan compromise. She will take it to the convention floor. In the meantime she suspends her campaign for the summer, hoping something catastrophic happens to Obama in that time-frame. After the convention she will go on all the morning shows and political shows that would have her, and she and her supporters will continue to complain that the nominating contest was unfair to HRC for a variety of reasons. They will continue to fight the legitimacy of a Barack Candidacy, all the way through Nov. 4th. On Nov. 5th, HRC will say I told you so.

THE OBJECT OF THIS STRATEGY:

-She doesn't have to campaign for her rival, Barack Obama.

-She keeps division and hate alive so the party can't come together behind Barack.

-She doesn't have to fundraise for Barack, so she can earn money to ease her own debt.

-She ensures Barack will lose in the fall so she can say "I told y'all I was more electable".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:46 PM on 05/31/2008

And,

- She commits political suicide and loses her Senate seat in 2012.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:26 PM on 05/31/2008

She won't view it that way and will still run for POTUS in 2012.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:33 PM on 05/31/2008

Continued hating of the Clintons is unbelievably asinine.
Europe rightly laughed at us because we pried our trailer trash, Jerry Springer noses into The Clinton's marital life.
The absolute "bottom line" is the economy was very good in the 90's and it was a progressive decade. Look what's happened since and it can be blamed solely on the Bush administration.
The extreme hating on the Clintons has been shameful and while,it is true that the Clintons are big enough to defend themselves, no amount of defense is excusable or justifiable in news commentators calling Hillary Clinton the "B" word on the air or making derogatory, stereotypical comments like 'her claws are out' or 'it must be her time of the month'.
This type of misogyny is inexcusable and should not be publicly tolerated in a 'progressive' 21st century.
That type of commentary is on the same exact level as 50's commentators making references of 'watermelon', 'ribs' and 'mammy' towards African Americans.
There's little doubt that the Clintons have flaws, but so does Obama, and while I, as a loyal democrat, have vowed to support Obama, I wish fellow Obama supporters shared the integrity he has now adopted towards the Clintons and their supporters.
Obama is intelligent enough to know that continued hating on the Clintons' and their large support base could be dangerously costly come the general elections in November.
You are merely casing all kinds of possibly irreparable harm. Besides, aren't liberals supposed to be nice and open minded?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:55 PM on 05/31/2008
- liseworks I'm a Fan of liseworks 142 fans permalink
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edhillfiker -
I have to commend you on this post & : you're right.
I admit to letting my outrage & raw emotions get the "better" of me - I'm not, of late, on the regular High path that I usually walk.
For this, on behalf of myself & some others who maybe have seen their worse side emerge, I apologize - some will not agree with my apology, but I make it.
I can't say I'll be able to calm down or get back to my easy-going self, but frankly, I've had it.

I still applaud you for your good thoughts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:36 PM on 05/31/2008
- iLogos I'm a Fan of iLogos 6 fans permalink

I agree conceptually but he wasn't hating on the Clintons, he was speculating that based on her current and past actions that he does not believe the statements she has made about seeking party unification.

She has only talked about party unification when she is asked about it, or when she does bring it up, it is lip service right before she starts to talk about Sen. Obama's supposed weaknesses and unelectibility, most of which for everyone who isn't an ardent supporter knows is reaching or in some cases even imaginary.

Pointing out the conflict between what she says and what she does is not hating, it is not productive, but it is not helping. With a fraction of her real supporters and the massive amount of Republican agent provocateurs stirring up trouble it is easy to over react, to become defensive.

I would like to ask all Democrats to let he process play out, the RBC will come up with some sort of answer we should all accept it, our nominee will be our nominee and we should all support them. Period. If you don't like what they accomplish in four years of the presidency then campaign against them in 2012, NOT in 2008.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:05 PM on 05/31/2008

Obama has been a gentleman as well as co-dem in this competition. Obama has only express nothing but high regards for Hillary (is a formidable opponent). HIllary has drug Obama's name through the mud, back over him with her bus, and not once gave him any positive anything. She has misspoken, she said thing implying about assassinations, and the news media took off statements Hillary would make about Obama making jokes about assassinations; Michelle Obama has sufferd the media scrutiny and negative comments from Clinton and McCain supporters.

But Obama and his campaign were prepared to take such abuse. Are you implying that Hillary cannot deal with this kinda of mediocre stuff. Remember, the president of the US must deal with other nation too. So, are you saying with all that just happen today that Hillary is feeling hurt behind this decision? Because if you are saying this, Hillary is not the person I want to be president....to be President you have to take the bitter with the sweet...that mean decisions in other country's may not agree with our President. I wouldn't want Hillary to be president if I knew she was going to cry everytime some one said something about her or they didn't agree with what she wanted.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:37 PM on 05/31/2008
- dawlishgal I'm a Fan of dawlishgal 222 fans permalink
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She won't get away with the "I told you so" crap. Her bad sore loser behavior and her encouraging spitefulness and paranoia among her supporters is already being blamed for any possible Obama loss. if she has any sense, she will campaign her little butt off to get him elected so she can regain the respect she once had among the other senators. Last time she appeared on the senate floor she got quite the cold shoulder (according to Andrea Mitchell).

And many people I know who voted for her in NY are saying that if they had it to do over (knowing what they know now about her) they wouldn't vote for her again. She has a lot of fences to mend, and the sooner she starts, the better. not only for the Clintons and their squandered and soiled legacy, but for the rest of us.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:31 PM on 05/31/2008
- JackND I'm a Fan of JackND 28 fans permalink

I like this Ms. Germond...she seems very fairminded and agenda-less.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:26 PM on 05/31/2008
- JackND I'm a Fan of JackND 28 fans permalink

Give 'em hell, Carl!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:17 PM on 05/31/2008
- JackND I'm a Fan of JackND 28 fans permalink

I have to totally agree with Mr. Levin about New Hampshire and Iowa...their eternal "first" status is infuriating and outrageous.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:11 PM on 05/31/2008
- dawlishgal I'm a Fan of dawlishgal 222 fans permalink
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Perhaps Levin is right, but they should concentrate on fixing this for next time around instead of changing the rules afterwards. What kind of organization would give the prize to the person who is most adept at breaking the organization's rules and has the most intractable, vindictive and destructive followers? I suspect we are about to find out that the Democratic party is not going to be blackmailed by the sore-loser brigade.

BTW, Levin is also off of my "most admired list". He joins the other Hillary mindless shills like Ed Rendell, Paul Krugman, Ellen Goodman, Gloria Steinem and my former best friend of 50 years. It is almost impossible to express how liberating it is to finally see the true character of these people and to cross them off my list. Not that it matters to them, but it does matter to me how much utter bullcrap I can accept and still have some regard for somebody.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:36 PM on 05/31/2008

Wow, your best friend of 50 yrs.. That truly sucks. Hillary on her mission, breaking up lifelong friendships. Ya gotta hand it to her.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:23 PM on 05/31/2008
- McPander I'm a Fan of McPander 4 fans permalink

Traditions are not always a bad thing.......the problem comes with having a big state early leads to a shorter process....an a candidate with name recognition win.

I feel for the rust belt states....but they continue to vote against their own interest....so sad

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:12 AM on 06/01/2008
- JackND I'm a Fan of JackND 28 fans permalink

Mr. Levin is anticipating that the Clinton argument is going to be 73-55 rather than 73-0?

I guess we'll find out soon.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:09 PM on 05/31/2008
- liseworks I'm a Fan of liseworks 142 fans permalink
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I expect Al Gore to finally "come out" for Obama at tonight fundraiser party -

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:24 PM on 05/31/2008
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Ickes agenda so apparent. It's sad that he can't separate his campaign for the better of the party. Someone should nudge him and let him know that he really looks bad.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:00 PM on 05/31/2008
- JackND I'm a Fan of JackND 28 fans permalink

This guy is disingenuous too. Saying Republicans will still be able to assert Democratic abandonment if only half the delegates are restored, when half is the same punishment Republicans leveled.

This guy is a piece of work.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:37 PM on 05/31/2008
- JackND I'm a Fan of JackND 28 fans permalink

Okay...how long before that snippet of Mr. Wexler totally owning Mr. Ickes gets to YouTube?

It was awesome!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:17 PM on 05/31/2008
- PAposter I'm a Fan of PAposter 143 fans permalink
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It sure was! I was taking a nap on this rainy day in PA, and was awakened by Wexler's voice, I'm so glad I didn't sleep through that.

He was brilliant, he shut "Icky's" stupid ass, right up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:29 PM on 05/31/2008
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Great stuff. Ickes really looked bad.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:35 PM on 05/31/2008

And very pissed off.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:25 PM on 05/31/2008
- SaulGood I'm a Fan of SaulGood 33 fans permalink

dang!!!! ran down to the cafe for a quick lunch, they had foxnews on and i asked them to change it- and they did - but i had no volume!! aaarrgh!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:51 PM on 05/31/2008
- JackND I'm a Fan of JackND 28 fans permalink

It was glorious!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 PM on 05/31/2008
- liseworks I'm a Fan of liseworks 142 fans permalink
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THIS is the kind of guy anyone wants at his back - GREAT JOB, Wexler !!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:41 PM on 05/31/2008
- JackND I'm a Fan of JackND 28 fans permalink

I don't know much about Wexler, but damn I love that guy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:15 PM on 05/31/2008

You gotta love the "Clintonian" sense of fairness.
One for you & one for me. Two for you & one, two for me....
Like nobody's watching?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:15 PM on 05/31/2008
- JackND I'm a Fan of JackND 28 fans permalink

Two very biased committee members that I don't trust any further than I can throw them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:12 PM on 05/31/2008
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