Water-Fueled Car Too Good To Be True?

Water-Powered Cars
Like clockwork, every time oil prices shoot up journalists scramble for stories about energy, and a few water-powered cars and perpetual motion machines always make it through. That's what happened with the Genepax Water-Powered Car featured on Reuters (and then a bit too uncritically on TreeHugger, but also on many other green sites like Environmental Leader, Celcias, etc).

How this Water Car Probably Works
One thing that helps fuel the conspiracy rumors surrounding water cars is that the media run these segments where they show "water cars" actually driving around, and it all seems to work, and then we never hear about them again. People figure that Big Oil (or the Illuminati, whatever) is suppressing the technology. The reality is more mundane: It is actually possible to make a car look like it runs on water without breaking the first law of thermodynamics. The way it's usually done is with metal hydrides. These react with water to produce hydrogen, which is then used to power the car. But since these hydrides will deplete with time, they need to be replaced and so they are actually the fuel, not the water. And you can be sure that more energy will go into producing them than will be taken out, making them an energy carrier, just like a battery.

Water Cars Create False Hopes and Real Apathy
There is a real danger in widely reporting these stories without debunking them, or at least being cautious to say that the "water car" is probably not doing what it claims it does until rigorous proof of the contrary.

The danger is that it creates false hopes, which then turn into real apathy. Either people believe that there's a solution to all our energy problems "coming real soon now", and so there's no need to worry and make efforts. And the people who've been around longer end up disillusioned and frustrated because they've been promised "water cars" for decades and it never comes, so they think that there's a big worldwide conspiracy against it (and somehow none of the dozens of "inventors" and "engineers" who worked on these projects were able to put the technical information on the internet).

The Bottom Line on Water Cars
As Carl Sagan used to say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The next time you hear about a water car, remember that and don't get your hopes up too quickly.

Comments

[VirginiaDreaming]

When hydrogen and oxygen combine to form water, a significant amount of energy is released. The trick is to control the reaction so the energy can be harnessed. That is the basis of the hydrogen fuel cell, and if the membrane where the reaction occurs is made properly, a fuel cell works quite well.
Breaking water into hydrogen and oxygen is the reverse chemical reaction, and cannot happen unless you add the same amount of energy to the reaction. So, It is not possible for a car to run by splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen by itself. Reacting water with metal hydrides to release hydrogen and using that hydrogen in a fuel cell requires that the energy is used to make the metal hydrides.
The most sustainable system would be using solar energy to crack water, releasing the oxygen gas into the atmosphere while capturing the hydrogen gas. Then the oxygen and hydrogen are recombined in the fuel cell, and pure water is produced, and returned to the environment.
It takes energy to move a car. Which means only a chemical reaction that releases energy can be used to move a car.

[Krackonis]

Wow.... Just Wow. What kind of reporting is this? PROBABLY WORKS?

What the reporter didn't even ASK the company to explain it? Call them on the phone? Ask for an Email?

This is disinformation spread by the whim of the oil execs...

You can make a water based generator easily enough, instead of AMPERAGE, use FREQUENCY and VOLTAGE.

[ImmanuelGoldstein]

Guy, you are gibbering, you haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about.

[KillTheMessenger]

He did pick a really descriptive pseudonym, though. ;-)

[jabailo]

According to this report:

http://media.cleantech.com/3002/water-fueled-car-criticisim-fuel-cell-genepax

There are no metal "catalysts" used in the process for separating H2 from H20.

There are metals used in the fuel cell part that uses the H2 electrons...but that is standard in all hydrogen fuel cells.

Yes, extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence; however, I find that most bloggers criticizing this technology have very little understanding of chemistry, catalysis and other sciences needed to make an evaluation.

[KillTheMessenger]

These are all frauds. Con men exploiting the gullibility of people who failed science class. If someone did not understand energy conservation in high school, chances are they will never understand it. Along comes the criminal and picks their pockets. Not a big deal, really. If you see one of these, call the DA, have them investigate the company for fraud.

[MyTake]

What does this clown not understand about a hydrogen fuel cell?

You strip the hydrogen atoms from the oxygen atom through common electrolysis, then you compress the hydrogen gas and transfer it to a hydrogen gas tank on the car, then you flow the hydrogen atoms against 1 side of the membrane in the fuel cell, you put ambient oxygen on the other side of the membrane and the hydrogen atoms then snap back into place and reform the water molecule. This snap back produces a sub atomic electric spark. You get trillions of these little sparks taking place on that membrane at the same time and you can then draw an electric current with which to drive a electric motor which then drives your wheels. You put that fuel cell in buses, trucks and cars and you then have greatly reduced town and city air pollution.

Who the hell cares if you have to use fossil fuel to power a $250 million dollar hydrogen gas plant to make the hydrogen gas. As long as the cars, buses and trucks are emitting zero pollution, everyone's has better health as a result.

There is more energy in a glass of water than there is in a barrel of oil!

[ImmanuelGoldstein]

"There is more energy in a glass of water than there is in a barrel of oil!"

Only if you are putting the hydrogen from it into a fusion reactor.

[MyTake]

Would it have been better if I said "There is more energy in a barrel of water than there is in a barrel of oil"? There is no loss of atoms when you split the molecules apart. The hydrogen atoms are atomically attracted to the oxygen atom and recombine. Therefore this barrel of water can be made to continuously supply energy with zero loss of atoms. Try doing that with the gasoline, diesel and flight fuel produced from a barrel of oil!

If Tesla devised his theory on providing free distributable electricity before the Morgan/Roc­kefeller/W­estinghous­e cartel put him out of business, we would not be having this conversation today. No fusion reactor needed!

[KillTheMessenger]

Another prime example of how US high schools fail to provide people with quantitative and qualitative reasoning skills.

[MyTake]

Oops, sorry, I was not educated in the U.S. thankfully because American education was corrupted on the day that the Rockefeller syndicate established the "General Education Board" back in the early 1900's.

You should take some time to read the book (starting at page 950 for 20 pages thereafter) of Dr. Carroll Quigley called Tragedy and Hope. He was Bill Clinton's mentor in "Word Affairs" (a lot of good that did Clinton). Anyway those 20 pages tell you how your eduction is corrupted and who sponsors that corruption.

So the confused American audience will spew pollution from oil until someone asks about the hydrogen fuel cells used in the Space Station (a state secret, no doubt) and why the common folk can't have one for their house!

[Beowolf741]

Darn my world is shattered. Gone is the idea of amateur scientists being kidnapped by big oil. They and their silly little plans and their little dog too are locked in dungeons never to be seen again.

[lvogt]

I still prefer electric cars because the hydrogen fueling stations are still based on the big corporate, gas station model. Electricity can be had anywhere including produced from your own solar or wind resources.

[feelu4ia]

So, what is the verdict on Hydrogen boosters used in a gasoline engine? I see all these posts on youtube and several websites dedicated to the electolysis technology that state it helps increase gas mileage up to 50%. Yet, I have friends that saw them demonstrated on Mythbusters proving that they don't work. I'm no scientist, but from what background I do have in science, it seems to me like this should work.

[KillTheMessenger]

One can improve the efficiency of an ICE by improving ignition conditions, but this will only give a few percent efficiency increase, at best, unless the engine is rebuilt to operate at higher compression ratios and is probably equipped with a compressor with inter-cooler. Mythbusters got it right. All of the crap sold online and in papers to improve car efficiency is nonsense.

If you don't believe it, compare the efficiency of a Prius with that of a small 1970s car with a 1.4-1.5l engine. The ICE in the Prius is only marginally better (by 20% maybe thanks to Atkinson cycle). The hybrid systems boosts performance at low rpm enough to make the car feel more powerful than it really is and the more constant operating point of the ICE (the car gets the required power/torque envelope expanded by the electrical machines) gets most of the remaining improvement. Regenerative breaking adds a few percent more in city driving to give the car an almost constant consumption independent of driving conditions.

[yodaveg]

I have a bicycle that run on water. And peanut butter sandwiches and Cliff Bars.

[thatsNotWhatIHeard]

haha, go Lance!

[humanbeinghuman]

i also have one of those bicycles and also a beer powered lawn mower.

[KillTheMessenger]

A peanut butter sandwich plus a bar is about the price of half a gallon of gas. A little engine could run that bike for almost a hundred miles on that much fuel. Can you?

[hydrokevin]

By showing photos of the BMW HR2 hydrogen car and the Japanese Genepax water car side-by-side you are confusing two very different technologies. Be sure when you are calling out a bogus technology that you are calling out the right one, please.

[KillTheMessenger]

The BMW HR2 is a bogus technology, most likely a million dollar money loser made to satisfy the CA hydrogen car requirement. It's the management's answer to the risk of doing business in a state that sometimes goes overboard with its laws.

[NYRalf]

The compressed air driven car is the way of the future.

[darthdarcy]

I agree and they should be used as cabs in our inner cities first..

They and Hydrogen buses would save so many lives, and billions for Health Care costs..!

Germany's buses are mostly Hydrogen already..they share a common fueling depot, one of the hurdles for private automobiles...

[UnbiasView]

And this would save lives how?

[noneIn2008]

And the source of hydrogen is? At what cost? How is the hydrogen generated?

[KillTheMessenger]

Darcy, I don't know where you grow your nonsense, but you seem to have excellent soil.

Germany has a dozen of so test projects with hydrogen powered buses. That's it. Most every other bus drives on either diesel or... and here you have a little point... methane or natural gas. But that is a decades old technology. Natural gas powered cars have been around since I was a teenager. They make sense for the owner because there was, if I remember correctly, no gas tax on compressed natural gas. And refining costs are lower, too. So the stuff if less than half as expensive than gasoline or diesel.

[ImmanuelGoldstein]

I'm putting all my money into a compressed air mine right now....

[Jonahson]

When I was in junior science class I remember an experiment where my science teacher passed 9volts current through two platinum electrodes in a beaker of water. Oxygen was boiling out from one electrode while hydrogen came out the other end. The H2O molecules were actually being split apart by eletrolysis. I wonder if anyone has try that yet.

[FloridaMalamute]

That does work. Those pesky laws of physics and thermo dynamics make it take too much electricity to make any usable amount of hydrogen. The power companies would burn a lot more coal too and coal is dirty.

[Krackonis]

Assuming you are using Amps to make it. Understand the frequencies can push over the electrolysis by sheer voltage potential. This is why you see the water cars almost all use the same 'carburator'.

[UnbiasView]

I could care less about the water car, it'll never be seen in Minnesota anyways. -40 degrees this last winter, I think we would need an ice powered car.

[research]

Some Swedish guy actually built a car that ran on ice....for about 10 minutes.

[GMC360]

Dad always said no such thing as a free lunch.

[Ajita]

I've been arguing about this for ages with some of my friends. So many people don't understand the law of conservation of energy and the new-age-y types are the most gullible.

[frantaylor]

When someone shows you a perpetual-motion machine, the best question to ask is:

"Where do you put the battery?"

[aristippe]

in space