Obama On FISA: Security Trumps Suing Phone Companies

In a press conference on Wednesday, Sen. Barack Obama explained his support for a compromise on FISA legislation, saying that concerns over American security trumped, at this point in time, objections over immunity for telecommunications that participated in the previously illegal program.

"The bill has changed but I don't think the security threats have changed. I think the security threats are similar," said the Illinois Democrat. "My view on FISA has always been that the issue of the phone companies per se is not one that overrides the security interests of the American people. I do want accountability, and making sure, as I've said before, someone is watching the watchers, that you don't have an administration that feels that it can make its own determinations about when warrantless wiretaps are applicable without going through a FISA court and that's what we had."

Obama's support for the compromise legislation, which includes a sweeping overhaul of the nation's electronic surveillance laws and grants conditional immunity for telecommunications companies who participated in the previous program, has effectively cast him against prominent members of his own political party. The House of Representatives passed the legislation this week with the majority of Democrats voting nay. The Senate, late Wednesday, voted to end debate on the measure, which could pass that body as early as Thursday. Only 15 Senators voted against cloture.

For Obama, however, the trickier aspect of this debate is explaining why, during the Democratic primary, he promised to defeat any FISA compromise that included telecom immunity and now, in the general, he is seemingly hedging on that pledge. The Senator, in a previous statement, said he would work to remove such a provision from the bill and offered to support an amendment doing just that. On Wednesday, he elaborated on that statement.

"It is a close call for me, but I think that the current legislation with the exclusivity provision that says that a president, whether it's George Bush or myself or John McCain, can't make up rationales for getting around the FISA court, can't suggest that somehow there's some law that stands above the laws passed by Congress in engaging in warrantless wiretaps. The fact that that provision is in there I think is very important and provides us protection going forward. The fact that that provision is in there I think is very important and provides us protection going forward."

His remarks may not be enough to placate Democrats invested in the fight. For this faction, the issue of immunity remains one of constitutional limitations -- as in, citizens, organizations and others should have the right to sue the government over illegal electronic surveillance. Obama, however, is framing immunity as a sticking point to a much more important legislative objective: putting in place a legal security apparatus. And thus, for critics, his support for the new FISA compromise seems more about demonstrating national security toughness than righting past wrongs.

Comments

[The Hedonistic Pleasureseeker]

http://exitthematrix.dod.net/matrixmirror/index.html Exit the Matrix

I haven't had a chance to go over this information yet but I thought y'all might get a kick out of it so here it is. This is what it's coming to, folks!

[akkadian]

doesn't smell right this, smells like politics as usual to me, washington stylee

[GingerB]

Here's a way to make the telecoms pay for their complicity...

Switch your long distance and/or moblie carrier.

http://www.workingassets.com/

http://www.credolongdistance.com/

http://www.credomobile.com/


When the ACLU sued the National Security Agency over warrantless wiretapping, CREDO joined in with an amicus brief " the only phone company to do so.

AT&T's Political Action Committee contributed the maximum amount allowable by law to the Bush/Cheney campaign " twice. CREDO has given more than $60 million to progressive nonprofits like Planned Parenthood, Earthjustice and Iraq Vets Against the War.

Verizon tried to block NARAL Pro-Choice's text messages, calling them "unsavory." CREDO supports text messaging for progressive causes through our Mobile Action program.

AT&T censored Pearl Jam's criticism of Bush during a concert webcast. CREDO fights for net neutrality as a member of the Save the Internet Coalition.

--

This is a great progressive, socially conscious, politically active, green company. I've been with them for many years and have no complaints.

[SCG]

Thanks for that information!

[tommybones]

Yes, thanks.

[Prism]

To quote Obama quoting Farrahkan quoting Malcom X: We've been hoodwinked and bamboozled.
Just another two-faced pol saying anything to get the Dem. nod. It's not too late for a brokered convention, folks. Let's show him we ALSO have the power to completely change our minds after the fact. If he wants to play bait and switch, so be it. Superdels TAKE NOTE. This new breed of weasel-pols ain't worth the primary ballot paper his name is printed on. Does he really believe we'll shrug something this important off?

[gditty]

Suing phone companies does nothing more than make them to raise rates, and pass the settlement back off unto the customer.

[tommybones]

Um... perhaps you could, you know... choose another phone company? You know, one that didn't spy on you? just an idea.

In any case, the idea that we shouldn't punish these companies in order to avoid higher rates is as naive as it is cowardly. It assumes, erroneously, that the primary reason for the lawsuits is monetary damages. It isn't. Because our gutless Democratically led Congress decided to abdicate their responsibility to the Constitution by taking impeachment "off the table," these suits stand as the only remaining opportunity to compel the release of information pertaining to the illegal spying program. In order to understand this egregious program and, more importantly, prevent it from happening again in the future, we must a) know precisely what happened and by whom and b) punish the lawbreakers to the fullest extent of the law. It's very simple. You want the law respected? You must ENFORCE IT. The idea that we should abdicate our own responsibility of vigorous oversight, merely out of fear that we will be punished by "higher prices" for phone calls is cowardice dressed up as pragmatism.

Take a stand for civil liberties. The founding fathers risked life, limb and fortune standing up to British tyranny, the least you can do is "risk" a bump in your bloody phone bill.

[Changeling]

Well said.

You hit it. Seriously.

[AbbieXHoffman]

And immunity does nothing but allow the phone companies and others to continue to break the law if the president asks them to.

[loupbouc]

Obama is the “change” candidate -- changes like Hillary & McCain. Oh, he doesn't lie -- like Hillary or McCain. He plays Bill's game: “It depends on what 'is' is.” “Oral sex is not SEX.”

“I said I want telecom accountability, to protect 4th amendment rights -- and I'd do all I could to block immunity.

“But the 4th amendment doesn't apply to telecoms. I meant I wanted accountability AND ALSO to protect 4th amendment rights (against Presidential intrusion). Notice the comma between 'accountability' and 'to protect' of my last paragraph.

“I did NOT say I'd trash national security -- when I said I want telecom accountability. And wanting is not the same as having for unbearable cost -- like 'national security' loss.

“Yes. National security includes security of privacy. Soon I'll explain how destroying privacy makes privacy secure -- when I find the right prose.

“I saw -- yesterday -- that national security trumps telecom accountability despite telecoms invaded privacies of millions, millions of times. Telecoms will not secure privacy by invading privacy if they're accountable for invasions. So yesterday I saw that national security trumps privacy ... er, trumps accountability. I DID 'all' I could to block immunity. In this case, 'all' = nothing.”

Obama is Bill wearing blackface. (Bill was the first Black president.) Obama is Hillary after sex-change. (Women lie. Men speak dissembling prose.)

Vote for a THIRD party candidate. Show you won't settle for lesser evil. Mussolini was evil as Hitler despite he didn't harm

[Sabreen60]

Check out all the latest state polls. 0bama is kicking butt. Go 0bama !!!!!!

[tommybones]

I've looked at you profile and it seems clear you are here merely to antagonize those having a true debate on the subject. You have added NOTHING of substance to the discussion. What's the point?

[Sabreen60]

And I care what you think. I've been here a lot longer than you. My purpose - to alert those about your 0bama bashing. Don't like it? Tough!!!!

[MarcoVincenzo]

Well, Obama just lost my vote. All I can do now is hope that the supreme court will reinstate the 4th amendment along with the 2nd.

[plainsman]

Telecom immunity is nothing more than a red herring. The restructuring of FISA is the real culprit. It legalizes everything that was illegal about the Bush administration's spy program. The immunity portion of the bill was just the easiest way to kill the bill.

[nonbeliever]

Obama is still better than Mccain by a landslide but he had the chance to really be something more, he didn't take it. I hope this is what he feels he must do to get elected and not something he believes in. The sorry truth is that Bush could not have undermined the Constitution without the slobbering suck-up help from Democrats.

[rzan1]

All you constitutional scholars on this site will be happy to know that the hand gun ban in Washington DC has been lifted. Hurray for the right to bear arms. (only kidding)

[Bagger]

I'm sick of all you liberals.

[ChiGuy]

Bye-bye then.

[EdCoughlin]

How is this a liberal issue? In a Melman group poll not only were democrats opposed to immunity for the telecoms and warrantees wiretaps, but a majority of Republicans were as well. Overall about 6 in 10 Americans are against both practices so how is this a liberal issue? Obama has not betrayed some hippie liberal base, he has betrayed the Constitution and gutted the fourth amendment. It is not only liberals who should be angry here, but every patriotic American. If this passes with immunity in it the donations during the primary were my last, Obama's cowardice won't earn him another dime from me (hope I'm not alone in that).

[tommybones]

That's how the plutocracy wins this argument. They pretend it's opposed by those extremist "liberals" and applaud themselves for standing up to the "fringe".

[indianadem]

If your sick of all us liberals....why the heck are you here?

[plainsman]

I guess you're sick of your liberties and freedoms as well, you know, those things that the terrorists hate.

[tommybones]

Yes, don't trust the government is a "liberal" mantra. All of those decades where it was the rallying cry of the conservative movement was merely pre-9/11 thinking. Now, the conservative movement realizes that they should, in fact, completely trust the government because they are here to protect us from cave-dwelling radicals. After all, we spent decades defeating mush bigger enemies while protecting civl liberties! But that was all before 9/11!!! Now we must cower in fear and beg big brother to protect us! Leave all that talk of civil liberties to the lefties! I'd rather be a cowardly lemming!

[tbone99]

No one is criticizing Obama for ONE vote. It's a pattern and history he has now established in his very brief career. His tendency to backtrack and back down.

Its quite obvious now, that had he been in the Senate, his famous anti -war stance woud have been a yes vote, for "security reasons." Taking his anti war position off his web site ,once in the Senate.,perfectly captures his willingness to capitulate when its expedient.

People don't hate liberals. They hate cowards. Because if you're willing to back down on your fundamental beliefs, then people assume you'll back down on anything if it's politically convenient.

[ChiGuy]

"It's a pattern and history he has now established..."
__________­__________­__________­__________­__________­____

Isn't it curious that you provide no examples of this so-called "pattern".

O.K., not really.

[tbone99]

Position on public financing, Isreaii Palestian relations, unconditionals talks with Iran and Cuba, position on the the Cuban embargo, his church , funding of the war, school vouchers .decriminalization of marijuana, NAFTA, CAFA, subsidies to agribusiness., ...

[tbone99]

Oh , and FISA!

[thatvisionthing]

See "Obama: I Might Be There For Dodd's FISA Filibuster"
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2007/12/obama_i_might_be_there_for_dod.php

In December 2007 when FISA came up in the Senate and the candidates were in Iowa, Dodd took a stand against it, promised to filibuster, left Iowa and went to Washington. Obama issued an "unequivocal" statement against telecom immunity and urged others to do the same. In fact, he said, he might even be there himself to support Dodd's filibuster:

"Senator Obama unequivocally opposes giving retroactive immunity to telecommunications companies and has cosponsored Senator Dodd's efforts to remove that provision from the FISA bill. Granting such immunity undermines the constitutional protections Americans trust the Congress to protect. Senator Obama supports a filibuster of this bill, and strongly urges others to do the same. It's not clear whether he can return for the vote, but under the Senate rules, the side trying to end a filibuster must produce 60 votes to cut off debate. Whether he is present for the vote for not, Senator Obama will not be among those voting to end the filibuster."

How'd that turn out? Obama in fact didn't leave Iowa; neither did Clinton nor Biden. Dodd's threat of filibuster got Harry Reid to postpone the bill till February, when neither Obama nor Clinton voted. The sword was in the stone and Obama failed and failed again. And again.

[patmancando]

"Isn't it curious that you provide no examples of this so-called "pattern".


His 126 present votes in the Illinois state legislature, his re-writing of an energy bill in the Ill. legislature to favor a nuclear energy co. who employed Axelrod as a lobbyist, his absent status when the senate voted on the Kyl/Lieberman amendments and subsequent criticism of Hillary for taking a stand............go to his record and you will see an avoidance of controversy pattern. Oh and back to that Illinois state legislature energy re-write..­.....follo­wed up with a yea vote on Cheney's energy bill that gave tax breaks to energy companies.....(oil) and supported building more nuclear energy plants in this country.

Enough examples for you to establish a pattern?

[2lib4oh]

Obama knows a lot more about what is going on than you do, tbone99.
I'll explain.
Obama takes a pragmatic point of view on FISA. Nothing will change significantly for the 4th amendment no matter which way people vote.The real problem lies with the Patriot Act.
Obama is a pragmatist.He knows this.We all need to know this.
Things can be changed if he is president.I guarantee noting will change if McCain is elected.
Don't get played by this.

[greer8054]

Who do they think there kidding? This is not about suing the telecoms, its about finding out the truth. They could have easly made the Government liable for any damages to the telecoms. We need to know exactly what happened. This bill is nothing but a CYA for the Bush administration and the Dems have folded again. Ther goes your judgement angle Obama.

[bygollymissmolly]

What a friggin cop-out. We have all the security we need with FISA written the way it is now. O'bama is selling his soul so he doesn't have to stand up to a right wing onslaught of "soft on terror". He has the skills to beat back an onslaught like that, he is choosing not to. I will no longer financially support O'bama. He has once again become the "lesser of two evils".

[ComicBooksandPolitics]

"I will no longer financially support O'bama."

After reading the contents of your profile, it seems highly unlikely that you ever really Finacially supported B H- O>. If you disagree with the man, that's fine. But don't come on here making up ish,
it only makes you look desperate.

[buckygreen]

Feel free to check my profile. I have donated almost $1000 and hundreds of hours phone banking and registering new voters for 0Bama since November. I will still vote for 0bama because the alternative is ridiculous, but he will not see one more dime from me.