Obama Repeats Call For Merit Pay In Front Of Powerful Teachers Union

The Hill:

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama on Saturday thanked the National Education Association for its endorsement but also made it clear that he continues to support merit pay for teachers.

His position is a controversial one with the 3.2 million member group and it has earned him criticism when he addressed the NEA in 2007.

Read the whole story: The Hill

Comments

[thaphenomenalone]

Finally someone has the backbone to take on these tyrannical teachers unions and not be afraid of being politically incorrect. As a product of the Chicago Public School system, i can safely say that 95% of the teachers in my school never gave a damn and just showed up to get a check, never helped after class or even listened to what you had to say. The Chicago School System has been held hostage every year. This is one more reason to vote for Obama. These teachers unions act like the world owes them everything when our schools are falling apart. Hey note to teachers unions: spend more time with your hand out to shake a students hand and lead them to a better tomorrow and less time with your hand out wanting more money that in some cases you haven't earned!

Arigato.

[Sportswoman]

Hilary was also parroting the testing mantra ad nauseum. She offered nothing new or dramatic in the way of education; no great reforms. She did advocate better pay, but we've been hearing that for ions now. I will state that Bill did a good job of creating more programs in the schools, and the National Board certification was during his tenure. Bush, of course, took the financial incentives away.
MsT, YOU ARE TOTALLY OUT OF THE LOOP, GIRL, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT. Teachers are evaluted. It's called the Stull Evaluation. We also have had national tests before. I took mine at UCLA with hundreds of others.
A test cannot measure what you'lll do when Spooky or Psycho pass out in class, or Hoodrat starts describing last night's action during a reading of Pygmalion. A test doesn't tell a teacher what to do with 45 hormonal l8 year-olds vascillating between sleep and incessant talking,cellphone/ I pod programming, or using the trashcan for basketball practice. It cannot tell you what to do when a fight breaks out between a crip and a blood in class, or stopping tagging . It doesn't tell you what to do with 4 gifted, 9 average, and 35 learning- challenged children, The ultimate reality is that only experience teaches a teacher what is apt to work or not. John Dewey was the ultimate proponent of experiential learning, yet these bonehead politicians, not having visited a classroom since the Dodgers were in Brooklyn, are suddenly experts.

[tbone99]

H.C said she would do away with NCLB . One of the few , but very important reasons I actually considered supporting her.

[tbone99]

Merit pay based on false indicators of learning , such as NCLB standards is just one more way to drive teachers from the profession . Obviously teachers in hardship schools will be punished for low scores and nobody will want those assignments, building more support for vouchers.

Obama is starting to look like a Repug in Dem clothing- across the board!

[elr50]

I taught for over 30 years, and I am sure merit pay would never work. Who would judge the "merit" of a teacher, especially in the lower grades? Most principals or superintendents are not worth the money they are paid, I have worked for very few who were even worth what the custodian made. The parents? If their child is happy they are happy. That wouldn't work. The board? Oh yeah, people who know NOTHING about education but are elected to run the district. How would you like to be supervised by someone with no background in what YOU do?

It is the principal's job to evaluate performance, to observe the staff and ensure that teachers are performing. If that is not being done, it is the PRINCIPAL'S fault.

[barackobama4prez]

O also mentioned peer & student evaluations as ways to judge, not just test scores.

[bibb]

Merit pay might work under the following circumstances:

1. Teachers could be fairly evaluated. For this to happen, you would have to eliminate the politics in school systems and in schools. Schools are no different than other job environments, and the supervisors nurture their favorites, but not necessarily the best educators. Good luck there! Parents and students should not be involved, because their opinions are frequently the result of who is the most fun in the classroom and solicitous to parents, and not necessarily who is the most competent and challenging. The process of learning frequently involves hard work, and that is not always popular with today's children and their parents.

2. All schools would have to become equal in both the challenges of directly educating all student populations and in dealing with behaviors that interfere with learning. There is absolutely no equity there, and it IS more challenging and frustrating to be in an environment where learning is not valued and behavior is constantly interfering with instruction. When all students come into the classroom eager to learn, wanting to achieve, and without the baggage that their home environments provide, then the instructional playing field will be equal for teachers.

While the idea of merit pay sounds like a good idea to some people, it is much, more complicated because of the problems within the system and society that have nothing to do with whether a teacher is a competent educator or not.

[blindjester]

In school districts that are becoming increasingly authoritarian (a result of NCLB and 8 years of Bush, among other things) the "good teachers" are those who are most cooperative with authority, and most reactionary. This is especially true in low-income, low-score demographics.

Anyone who supports creative teachers, more exciting lessons, more relevant instruction and greater student interest should know that these are precisely the things being removed from education. Keying on raising scores on high-stakes tests pushes schools to strip context more and more efficiently from the classroom. Anything that slows the transmission of information connected to "power standards" is considered time wasted. Anything the students enjoy is suspect. Conformity between teachers and schools within a district is administrative nirvana.

Building connections between ideas, encouraging student interest, and allowing for deeper thinking on any topic is too time-consuming.

It's the health equivalent of restricting your diet more and more to just the essential calories and nutrients, until you're reduced to taking vitamin pills, drinking sweetened sludge and eating grass.

If you think rigid thought control, drudgery and conformity are the keys to improving education, then support merit pay. That's where the money will go.

[truthynesslover]

It may also help if the teachers could pass the high school equivelency exam! In mass. they tested the teachers and more than half couldnt even pass that test!

[blindjester]

Citation, please.

[truthynesslover]

Please see New york times,sunday,july 6th,education section title Union is urging a national test for new teachers,Sorry i dont know how to leave a link but this is one of MANY articles and studies showing many teachers cant pass a 10th grade exam.I thought this was old news?

[amandab42]

I am a teacher and let me tell you about all of the tests which I was required to pass in order to obtain my teaching license (not including my Master's in Education).

1. CBEST (California Basic Education Skills Test)

2. ORELA (Oregon Educator Licensure Assessments)

3. Praxis (Teacher Licensure and Certification - subject specific)

I was required to take AND PASS not one but three Praxis exams.

So, truthynesslover (by the way, truthiness is spelled with an'"i" d-bag), I'm relatively certain I am able to pass a 10th grade exam, and equally certain that I've earned the right to never take one again. Furthermore, I am a Special Educator, which under a merit based rewards
program would render my paycheck nil. As with NCLB , merit pay does not recognize the fact that even the best teacher cannot make every learning disabled student pass a grade level standards-based exam. My problem with the merit based pay system is just one, there are oh-so-many others that transcend my own circumstances. You are, of course, welcome to hold as low an opinion of educators as you like, but please remember your opinion is not fact. And your experience with your own education is not everyone's.

[truthynesslover]

GO OBAMA!Its about time somebody in the democratic party took on the teachers union.I remember when i was in high school there were many teachers who did as little as possible not even trying to make their subject of interest to students.M­any of those teachers should have been fired but that never happens.I went from a low c student in high scool {I got a full scholarship for art}to As in college because the teachers were enthusiastic about their subjects and it was contagious the opposite of my high school experience!

[mjc]

I substitute these days but know that most teachers of any merit are not thrilled at all about merit pay for teachers. The old canard is who is qualified to judge the merits. There are entire schools that are dedicated to getting the community's students through the system, teachers who won't and don't accept the state's mandates about new curricula or workshops on how to improve the teaching. I taught in one in which the least respected teacher wrote regents exams questions and participated in the changes in the curriculum. He was feared and later loved by the students because they actually knew they were learning something. His fellow faculty members saw to it that he got less and less of the students in the upper stream and had his classroom moved to the smallest and darkest one in the building. But I have also seen a grade school be transformed by a particularly gifted teacher. The other teachers were basically forced to follow because the kids in her classes were going home with such great praise. Judging teachers by merit is probably no more difficult than judging doctors by merit, and of course paying them on that basis.

[epictetus]

Pay teachers more and hire more of them. Make teaching a highly respectable profession again. Teachers aren't awarded the same respect as other professionals. Perhaps there should be challenging tests to certify teachers in their field. "Certified Professional Mathematics Teachers" could be paid higher wages than other teachers (who would, one hopes, be working towards the expertise required to become certified).

I imagine a future where teaching positions are competed for. It seems like anyone can be a teacher these days, because so many school districts are desperate to hire them. Most teachers are good people who have their students' best interest at heart, but some aren't (and some are just not competent), and a few bad teachers can have a powerfully negative impact. Imagine how damaging two years of incompetent math or english teachers could set a student back. They would find themselves in a hole that they can't dig themselves out of!

A productive strategy needs to be put together. Perhaps administrators and teachers should be more insulated from politics, maybe teachers need more freedom.

I stopped attending public schools after the 5th grade. I was able to go to Catholic schools instead, in part because I was able to secure scholarships awarded on academic merit. Many of my teachers took paycuts to work at these schools, because they had smaller classes and more personal freedom to shape their curriculum. The environment at these schools was strictly controlled, and behavioral issues were not much of a problem.

[pupbayer]

If you'll read posts below, you'll see much of what you've mentioned is discussed.

[JJeff88]

There's an irony here.

Sen. Obama has made a series of moves lately which might all be lumped into the single category of "being courageous enough to tell people what they need to hear rather than tell them what they want to hear."

Problem is, that by appearing to move away from positions assumed to be favored by his strongest supporters, he comes across as being anything but courageous.

Damned if you do; damned if you don't.

Welcome to national Democratic politics.

There's only one way out of this conundrum. "Go with what you believe in." (Just make sure you can communicate this clearly and forthrightly to your potential critics - easier said than done).

[jimmy2001]

I concur, everyone says we want our politicians to be more honest and candid now that we got one running for the POTUS, we have a problem with him trying to be this.

Its a dangerous game for BO because the truth bursts bubbles and some don't want their bubbles to be burst.

[Pquilson]

He is wasting his breath. All the NEA wants is higher salaries for incompetent teachers. It stopped caring about education a long time ago.

[pupbayer]

Not to mention merit pay for teachers doesn't work. All he had to do was a little research.

[blindjester]

You pack a lot of ignorance in such a brief statement. Well done.

[Raymondf]

Who's going to pick the merit pay teachers, most principals don't know as much as most of their teachers, supers, and board are mostly corrupt. The only way to pick a merit pay teacher is to give them tests every year in their field, and make the merit pay for the highest scores. Pay everyone that makes the highest score in their field the highest pay. Highest score in science would get the highest pay. Highest score in Math would get thesame pay as science. You would have to pay everyone with the highest pay in each field the same amount of money. Most states could not afford that, without federal help. this means higher taxes. I for one don't want higher taxes. I would rather my son or daughter be dumb as a coal bucket, thanto pay higher taxes.

[Midnightrain]

Yeah, I'm mostly afraid that children will be victimized by their teacher's desire to obtain higher pay - just like kids were victimized by NCLB.

Under NCLB kids and parents bore the pressure and burden of trying to achieve unattainable standards so that schools could get more federal dollars.

[VivaZapata]

while there is more ostensible fairness to your criteria for merit pay over allowing principals decide who qualifies for it, most knowledge of a subject area, or even methodological approach, does not necessarily translate into performance, either presentation or following up on student achievement. therein lies the problem, so many variables, so little ability to break it all down.

[senga6]

Why not let the use peer reviews and student reviews as the main vehicles for awarding merit pay? Let teachers (NOT Board of Ed administrators or principals) design the merit pay system and decide from the beginning of the year what qualifies for extra merit and what does not. In fact, why not let the unions themselves get involved? I don't see why people are so negative about this idea. It doesn't have to be all about tests and ass-kissing.

[Genmaicha]

They're negative about this because they understand the situation in schools through years of experience. If you haven't worked in schools or otherwise spent time with teachers its very unlikely that you'd have a realistic and clear picture of the situation.
I just wanted to add a comment about the proposal of student reviews. This may be a relevant concept for universities and colleges, but not for elementary school where I've worked. A 6-11 year old child is not mature enough to review a teacher. It would be meaningless.

[Skepticat]

Why am I not surprised - that a person who would rather have offspring dumber than a coal bucket than pay higher taxes - would propose merit pay based on tested knowledge of a subject rather than on the ability to convey this information to others and help them understand it.

[TheIndependenceParty]

I've worked in corporate life my entire career. "Merit Pay" does not work there, I am sad to say, where the product is pure profit! How do you evaluate a teacher's perfomance? Parental comments? Administrators' reviews, ... grades?

Merit Pay is a favorite of the Right, ... who love to control what our children are to be taught, ... creationism, ... straight sex, ... Christianity. They would love to use it as behavior modification to press their points. Once you load the books up with your talking points, ... you just have to keep those pesky teachers frm straying off task.

On its surface it sounds beneficial. The devil is in who designs the details! Usually it is some political hack, some obsequious administrator, or a school borad who believes they were appointed by God. Give me a progressive pay scale any day.

[VivaZapata]

the absurdity of CEO pay substantiates what you say.

[RedEyes]

Haha! No pay is absurd; even CEO's. You are worth whatever wage you can get in this country. That's called freedom. It's not like any Joe off the street can step into a huge company and take the reigns of a business.

[RTIII]

I don't have a dog in the fight, but merit pay CAN work. Treat the problem as a science - it isn't hard, really. Take a look at my 250 word suggestions elsewhere in this thread.

[blindjester]

You're exactly right. I appreciate your comments.

Besides, the entire proposition is insulting. It assumes, without offering any evidence, that the central flaw in education is that teachers don't work hard now, but would be motivated by some kind of bonus system.

It's so simplistic it can only be considered catering.

[Raymondf]

Well there goes the teacher votes.

[Midnightrain]

Not really. They're certainly not entertaining the thought of a McCain presidency. He wouldn't even come talk to them.