Some Coffee Fans Take Grim Delight In Starbucks' Woes

Reuters:

One coffee drinker's bad news is another coffee drinker's good news, it seems.

Financial woes at Starbucks Corp., which is planning to close 600 underperforming U.S. stores, is evoking glee and little sympathy from aficionados who say they resent the coffee shop giant and favor small independent cafes.

Read the whole story: Reuters

Comments

[oxygen]

everytime I tried to buy a cup of coffee from these idiots they would claim it was a mild type like - you know who's but it was always - even their so called light stuff was way too bitter and strong and I could never believe so many people really liked coffee that strong they just followed each other in there like herd animals- there's another one called seatlle's or something what that has to do with coffee who knows but they have the same problem a million varieties but not even one normal one? I just buy one at mcd' then drive to the bookstore with that normal one so it's no wonder they aren't doing well

[rmc53x]

Does anyone under the age of 40 know the difference between a Coffee HOUSE and a Coffee SHOP?
Only uncool people call coffee houses "coffee shops".

Denny's is a Coffee SHOP. Beatniks and folksingers in the 50's did not read poetry and sing protest songs in Greenwich Village Coffee Shops...they were hanging out in Coffee HOUSES.

Let me explain it in a way you kids can understand by using examples from your favorite TV show reruns: Monk's on "Seinfeld" is a Coffee SHOP; Central Perk on "Friends" is a Coffee HOUSE.

It's not a matter of semantics but a distinct cultural difference.

By the way, Starbucks, Peet's and many other large chains call themselves Coffee STORES.

[gn482]

Regrettably the matter is more confused than Coffee Shop vs. Coffee House. What west coasters call a Coffee Shop (which can be a chain or independent outfit, basically serving brewed coffee and food) is in the NE referred to as a diner. Leastaways in NY. You may think a diner is a long narrow place with a counter and maybe a row of tables next to the windows, serving burgers, hot dogs, and breakfast. But in NY diners are big restaurants similar to coffee shops in the west.

A coffee house remains a place where you get high grade coffee.

[DragonMama]

And here in the dysfunctional Mecca that is Cleveland, what are elsewhere "coffee shops" or "diners" are here called "Family Restaurants". Yes, as in "Hooters Family Restaurant" (indeed, the one with the shirts designed to show off their wait staff's mammalian traits). Many of these "family restaurants" are open 24 hours and located directly adjacent to bars.

FWIW, the "coffee houses" are frequently called cafes here, and we have several independent or at least regional ones. Some have "coffee house" as part of the name I think, many don't. And some serve beer too... ar, we be a working class town.

[ResearchGuy]

Whatever Starbucks calls itself, its house coffee is awful. Better to get a double espresso, which I already know will taste strong and bitter, but at least there is not much of it. Better yet to go out of my way to anyplace else with coffee. Or make a cup of instant at home, or break out the Mr. Coffee.

[TripperDay]

There's a lot of people who root for the underdog, no matter how untalented and undeserving of encouragement the underdog is. Just like soda preferences are determined more by marketing than actual price, there's a lot of people who say Starbucks coffee tastes terrible and just happen to be the same people who think all corporations are evil.

It's incredible that Starbucks actually sells fair trade coffee (our worst tasting coffee, IMHO) and provides pretty good health benefits for its employees, yet there's a certain segment of society who bemoans the demise of a corner coffee shop that bought the cheapest beans it could get away with and paid its employees minimum wage.

I used to work there and really liked it. I won't go into the motivations of our customers but all the employees in my store took coffee very seriously. One guy could honestly be called an evangelist. Once a customer came in on a slow night, and when that manager heard it was the customer's first time at Starbucks, we made two french presses of coffee in addition to the coffee of the day and got three desserts that the different coffee blends, and they sat there for an hour trying coffee and seeing how each dessert was complimented by different blends of coffee.

[Mintra]

Hey, how come you didnt put on my short comment? Cuz I live in Bangkok? - though we have our Starbucks here, too. Not that I ever go there, as I dont think a good cup of coffee needs to cost that much. People pay that much because they think it's cool to sit in Starbucks. But wasting money isnt cool.

[AxelDC]

Starbucks = Yuppie 7/11

Give me Tim Horton's any day!

[hopefull2008]

Right on .. Dunkin Donuts too !

[Raymondf]

A three pound can of kroger costs 5.99 I can make approx 45 pots of coffee out of that. Don't care for any of the fancy coffee drinks. I drink coffee at home. Sometime if I'm out I'll buy a cup at Hardees they have better coffee anyway, at 1/3 the price.

[oxygen]

and it was always so strong it tasted like they didn't want to use filters and so expensive it was crazy and they still refuse despite all the varieties they have to have just one - just one - normal one, not everybody likes coffee that strong and bitter yuk makes me thirsty just thinking about it, and or were they trying to make even more money not using filters is that the deal they couldn't afford them and were going broke but didn't want to tell me - I feel like everytime I asked them if it was mild and paid alot for a damn cup and it wasn't I got ripped off - I don't trust their answers anymore and bring my own when I go to the bookstore

[Raymondf]

Love good coffee, Starbucks is very bad, and expensive coffee.

[DaphnesDad]

Starbucks fell victim to its own hubris, wanting to squish any competition and corner the market on coffee shops everywhere How else do you explain that in the Dupont Circle area in Washington, DC, you have two Starbucks stores literally within one block of each other? And others close by.

There's a lesson to be learned for any company that wishes to be the monopoly on any consumer item. Sooner or later, it always backfires. It seems like a classic tale of one of the flaws of American style capitalism, which keeps repeating itself over and over and over and over again. When will they learn?

I just feel badly for all those Starbucks employees who will now be without jobs.

[rmc53x]

this is exactly the business plan that 7-11 had in the 80's, find an old gas station on a corner near a Mom & Pop grocery store and take over. The God of Free Market Competition will decide who survives. except that Corporate subsidized the new stores.

Funny you should mention DC-- during a World Bank protest, our affinity group was supposed to meet outside "the Starbucks near DuPont Circle" -- none of us found each other.

ps. it's Coffee HOUSES not Coffee SHOPS.

[internCyndi]

One of the comments makes mention of "wal-mart closes small business, and no one seems to notice," and there are several other comments making the point that starbucks started small and is now big --- so what is the big deal? the big deal is the question of where they get their coffee from? is it from countries who are part of the World Trade Organization, where labor standards are non-existent, unfair wages are paid, and people are subjected to chemicals and other hazardous, health-threatening working conditions? I think yes. AND people DO care about wal-mart. the activism groups fighting against huge corporations like Starbucks and Wal-Mart are typically people who are fighting a bigger issue of wanting labor regulations in all countries and fair wages for the workers.

There's a new site -- www.starbuckers.org - that has some great information about the company and the activists who are standing up against unfair practices.

another site -- www.whocontrolstheworld.com talks about fair trade vs free trade issues.

it's so good to see people engaging in this conversation. this stuff is so important!

[Raymondf]

Neither site is in business.

[MemphisBuffalo]

What? They sell coffee? I was thinking it was music, clothing, pop culture and statis. A store that celebrates the joy of excess and waste the new American value system.

[speakyourmind]

I think the word you were looking for was "status."

[DragonMama]

or maybe stasis

Stasis: /ˈsteɪsiz, ˈstæsiz/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[stey-seez, stas-eez] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation.
1. the state of equilibrium or inactivity caused by opposing equal forces.
2. Pathology. stagnation in the flow of any of the fluids of the body, as of the blood in an inflamed area or the intestinal contents proximal to an obstruction.
(hijacked from dictionary.com)

[speakyourmind]

At one time, Starbucks was a small, independently owned business. So they became successful. At exacty what point does a small business who becomes successful deserve your scorn? Exactly how much money's worth of business does a coffee shop need to do before you feel it's worthy of your scorn? What's the dollar amount cut-off?

[Raymondf]

A 1.00 a cup.

[DragonMama]

Coffee costs more than that anywhere that provides a place to sit and drink it anymore, and I live in an area where gas is selling for under $4/gal down the street. Anyplace, from diner on up, charges at least a buck fifty around here. Gas station coffee can sometimes be got for under a dollar anymore. Coffee is an import and shipment costs a lot more than it did in 1999, thankyousomuch Mr. President.

[qwr]

My scorn started when I saw a deliberate strategy of driving other shops out of business, and when SB started opening in locations that could not have been profitable, and instead pursued a marketing strategy. It's not a dollar amount. If SB opened in places that needed a coffee place, where they could turn a good profit, I wouldn't avoid them as I do now. Something tells me I'm not alone.

[rmc53x]

Hey Speaky Our Mind--

Don't you understand the concept of "selling out"?

If you once saw your favorite band in a bar for $10 would you pay $100 to see them in a stadium?

what's wrong with supporting UNsuccessful local neighborhood coffee houses instead of the suck-cesspool Starbuck's down the street?

[DragonMama]

"Hey Speaky Our Mind--"

I do hope you were kidding there, I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be speakYOURmind

[Tom95134]

Starbuck's coffee is marginal. All they bring to the market is a bunch of variations on the prepackaged concentrate they dispense. When is the last time you saw a Starbuck's that used a REAL espresso machine?

The other thing about Starbuck's is they aggressively buy-out the competition. If they see a coffee shop that is impacting the business of their shops they will buy the other shop and close it. When Starbuck;s can't win on quality they either overwhelm or simply eliminate the competition.

[johnnygoodwud]

i have a starbucks in my local train station 4 blocks from my house. it used to be a ritual every morning for me. coffee, chicago tribune, back home read the paper, enjoy my cup of joe, and begin work. now, home brew, read the paper on line. a large venti coffee is the price of 1/2 gal. of gas. it's not that i can't afford the coffee, but when you think in terms of gasoline, it makes you wonder

[paulfromportland]

Or you could really start your day well by trying some Hairbender from Stumptown Coffee in Portland - You can buy it online - But, the biggest point if that the founder, Duane Sorenson, from Seattle originally, truly cares for, not only his baristas and roasters, but, the people in Central and South America who grow the beans - Really behind "Fair Trade" - Another point in their favor, he will not sell to coffee houses unless their baristas go through training at the Stumptown roasting store.

Of course, not to forget the splendid Community Coffee from Louisiana - Excellent.

Yeah, Howard was merely the marketing man who came in after Starbucks started - He did bring upscale coffee awareness to much of the US, even with their over roasted product. LA and Vegas, as two examples, were coffee waste lands, prior to the arrival of Starbucks - But, please, support your local small roasters, if possible, and roasters, such as Duane Sorenson of Stumptown, who really have a major concern for more than just the bottom line.

[CharlieMarlowe]

"upscale coffee awareness"-isn't that one of the signs of the Apocalypse?

[ShakeYourComplacency]

Walmart closes down small business, but nobody's complaining. Taco Bell serves me literally dog food for meat. McDonalds? I don't know what's in their meats, but you can barely see the meat anyway, it's all bun and condiments. Wendys - gone way down, food is terrible and prices are higher than they should be. Einsteins - overpriced and cutting back on the portions, the food is served sloppy sometimes. I could go on and on. You want to talk coffee? The coffee price at McDonalds was doubled. Dunkin Donuts? The coffee is still good, but the size of the small cup is unbelievably small. Their donuts haven't been good since 1975. And yet..................Starbucks is what has you all riled up?????? I don't get it.

I saw Starbucks as a progressive, community aware organization that paid it's employees well. Yes, it got more corporate as they opened more stores, but they still tried to maintain the quality, unlike any of the other stores I mentioned above. I don't see the wonderfulness in them closing stores. It just means some college kid is going to have to work at McDonalds now, instead.

[qwr]

"Nobody's complaining"? You're kidding, right?