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Obama: Seniors Making Under $50,000 Wouldn't Pay Income Tax

ANDREW TAYLOR | August 12, 2008 04:56 AM EST | AP

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Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., speaks to the media about the conflict between Georgia and Russia conflict in the driveway of the home he is staying Kailua, Hawaii, Monday, Aug. 11, 2008. Sen. Obama is in Hawaii for a vacation.(AP Photo/Alex Brandon)

WASHINGTON — If you're a senior citizen and make less than $50,000 a year, Barack Obama has a deal for you: the rest of your life free of federal income tax.

Sounds appealing, right? Maybe to many seniors. But tax policy experts in Washington are giving it bad reviews. They see it as another subsidy for senior citizens, who already get federal help through Social Security and Medicare and often have economic advantages over other demographic groups.

Seniors typically have paid off their mortgages. Many have investments and usually don't pay taxes on their Social Security benefits. The kids are usually grown, so they're not saddled with day care or college costs.

"The odds are the retired folks _ they're getting pensions, they're getting Social Security, they have investment assets, they own a house _ so ... they're better off than somebody who is 30 or 40 years younger who's trying to buy a house (and) trying to start saving," said Clint Stretch, managing principal of tax policy for Deloitte Tax.

The Obama campaign says the idea would give tax cuts averaging $1,400 to 7 million seniors who are battling inflation with mostly fixed incomes. The campaign also says the plan would relieve millions of older people from having to file complicated tax returns.

"If you work hard and pay into the system, you've earned the right to a secure retirement," says a description of the plan on the Obama campaign's Web site. "But too many seniors aren't getting that security, even though they've held up their end of the bargain. Lower- and middle-income seniors are struggling as their expenses on health and energy skyrocket while their incomes do not keep pace."

Some of Obama's allies in Washington think he's onto a bad idea.

"Most low- and moderate-income seniors already owe no income tax. Among seniors with incomes below $50,000 who do owe income tax, a significant number have modest incomes because they are retired but possess substantial assets," said Robert Greenstein, who heads the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a liberal think tank. "Given all the problems and needs the nation faces, targeting relief to this group isn't a priority."

The Tax Policy Center, a think tank run jointly by the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, gave the idea bad grades in a recent study of the two presidential candidates' tax plans.

Seniors already get preferential treatment in the tax code. They get to claim an additional standard deduction and only a portion of their Social Security benefits are taxed. Many don't pay payroll taxes because their income is from investments rather than wages.

"The proposal would exempt comparatively well off, though not affluent, senior citizens from tax and give them a benefit not generally available to working Americans," said the Tax Policy Center paper. It "helps only those low-income seniors who currently pay income taxes. Those too poor to owe any tax _ arguably those most in need _ would get no benefit."

Even the powerful seniors' lobby AARP doesn't seem excited about Obama's idea. An AARP bulletin on the presidential candidates' tax plans barely mentions it, saying that Obama's proposal could partly offset additional taxes that Obama would impose on seniors through higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains.

Tax experts across the political spectrum also fault the Obama plan's abrupt $50,000-a-year threshold. As described by the campaign, seniors making, say, $48,000 would pay no income tax, while someone with income slightly more than $50,000 could pay several thousand dollars in income taxes. Seniors nearing the $50,000 threshold would have incentive to quit working.

Congress likely would add a phaseout, according to tax experts. "Everyone knows there would never be this $50,000 cliff," said Ben Harris, a senior research associate at Brookings.

The proposed new tax break for seniors is one of about a dozen tax changes proposed by Obama, including raising rates on people making more than $250,000 a year; extending most of the rest of President Bush's tax cuts; subsidizing Social Security and payroll taxes for low-income workers; and boosting income and child care tax credits for low-income workers.

WASHINGTON — If you're a senior citizen and make less than $50,000 a year, Barack Obama has a deal for you: the rest of your life free of federal income tax. Sounds appealing, right? Maybe to m...
WASHINGTON — If you're a senior citizen and make less than $50,000 a year, Barack Obama has a deal for you: the rest of your life free of federal income tax. Sounds appealing, right? Maybe to m...
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11:09 AM on 08/14/2008
The bottom 50% of taxpayers earned between $10,000 and $31,987 in 2006. I can't find the data for 2007.
12:10 AM on 08/14/2008
I'm not sure what I think of Obama's plan. Personally, I don't think that anyone making less than $50,000 should pay income tax regardless of their age. Income tax should only apply to those who benefit from the economy, those who have good-paying jobs that provide disposable income after paying for basic necessities.

The income tax is a function of the realization that poverty will always exist even when the economy is healthy. It's a function of the desire for the relatively well-off to live in a society that isn't burdened by the effects of poverty: crime, dilapidated properties, troubled schools, struggling local businesses, etc.

The rise and fall of the conservative movement has created a generational divide between the older folks who received all the benefits of progressive policy and the younger Americans who have been subsequently denied those benefits by those same elders. I don't believe we need to further codify this generational tension by creating more age-dependent benefits for either side of the divide.
10:39 PM on 08/13/2008
Sen. Obama: As a senior citizen AND A VOTER!! I don't think we seniors deserve this special treatment. This is borderline pandering to people you know are going to vote. You have my vote anyway. How about offering every citizen a health care system Identical to medicare. This would be better.
10:17 AM on 08/14/2008
It would help if they would let the 62 and up have Medicare. People can retire at 62 and should get Medicare then.

I was hoping they would dedicate the taxes that will be charged anyway on boomers when they cash out their 401ks to pay the Social Security debt. Most won't cash out all at once so it would be a steady way to pay to Social Security as the Boomer's need it.
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gladys46
Know Your Interests, Vote
05:35 PM on 08/13/2008
This country does not want to take care of it's seniors!!??? Funny how the doctors & drug companys go after those same seniors like bees to honey ... addicting them to rediculous amounts of expensive drugs!!

"Tax policy experts in DC" say "they're getting pensions, they're getting SS. They have investments, assets, they own a house, so they're better off than somebody who is 30-40 who is trying to buy a house" Wouldn't it makes sense that seniors begin the same way 30-40 yr. olds do ... struggling to get there!!!
01:57 PM on 08/13/2008
Even AARP thought this was a hair-brained idea. Try again, Barry.
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
gladys46
Know Your Interests, Vote
05:45 PM on 08/13/2008
You're an idjitt ... that's right the laborious strong arm of the government continues with "conservatives"!!!? I suppose you merely dismiss the taxes that seniors have already paid all their young lives!! This is what that saying "throw granny under the bus" means, well reThugs know how to do that with precision!!!

O is correct!!
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05:58 AM on 08/14/2008
I have asked a number of seniors if increasing taxes on those making more than $250,000 would hurt them, or if increasing capital gains taxes would hurt them, or if eliminating taxes on those making less than $50,000 per annum would help them. I was unable to find a single person who would be hurt by Obama's plan. On the other hand, every single person I know would be helped by Obama's plan.

A perhaps unintentional benefit: one man I know who is collecting less than $50,000/yr spends more than 350 dollars per year for a tax specialist, because for him the tax codes are too complicated. Obama's tax plan would have the additional benefit of helping people in this man's situation by eliminating the need for him to pay an accountant.
09:51 AM on 08/13/2008
"Seniors typically have paid off their mortgages. Many have investments and usually don't pay taxes on their Social Security benefits. The kids are usually grown, so they're not saddled with day care or college costs."

Not sure what country Taylor is writing about. It sure isn't the United States. So, why does a jerk like Taylor get to use the Huffington Post to spew such garbage? Where are the HuffPost editors? Don't they read the articles they publish?

The myth that seniors have "typically" paid off mortgages reeks of outright ignorance of the facts. How many is many? Does it include the Enron investors, the hedge fund investors? The kids he refers to, are the ones that are grown and have had to return, because they can't make it on their own. Are those costs considered?

Taylor probably likes the idea of "saving" our financial institutions with corporate welfare, and laying on the old "independence and self-made individualists" that don't need assistance to have a high quality life. Last report had 8,000 foreclosures occurring every day of the week, with some 2 million more coming to grips this year. Wonder how many are seniors? Are they counted as "many"?
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texastrixie
I invented the internet.
10:20 PM on 08/12/2008
Obama needs to make a speech spelling out his economic plans for seniors. Specifically (I think I have it right):
> a plan to fix social security by taxing those making over 250,000 a small percentage
> no plans to cut the cost of living stipend
> no plans to raise the retirement age.
> this idea about not taxing seniors

The elderly in this country have no idea how much McCain plans to slam them with new fees and cuts in payments. He has already said he won't increase social security taxes AT ALL, thus mandating that the system has to be cut in either benefits or coverage (Medicare) or large sums will be have to be raised by forcing seniors to make large co-payments or fees, etc. Of course, if its a fee or co-payment that's not a tax. Feels like a tax, will take money from you like a tax, but technically is not a tax. What it really is, is a TAX ON SENIORS ONLY. Not even income neutral. If the medicare drug prescription fee doubles, you will pay it whether you receive the minimun social security payment or the maximum. So it directly hits the poorest among us the most (like most Republican taxes such as sales taxes) - everyone knows that the poor Americans are the logical group to pay more taxes.
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09:45 PM on 08/12/2008
From the article: "Seniors......usually don't pay taxes on their Social Security benefits." Says who?

To quote from the government web site at www.socialsecurity.gov:

"If you file a joint return, you may have to pay taxes on 50 percent of your benefits if you and your spouse have a combined income that is between $32,000 and $44,000. If your combined income is more than $44,000, up to 85% of your Social Security benefit is subject to income tax."

At a time when we see articles titled "Most U.S. corporations avoid paying taxes," someone thinks it is a good idea to balance the budget on the backs of seniors? Those who can affort to pay taxes, should. Those who are retired on a fixed income have already seen their income reduced by over 40% during the last eight years thanks to Republican induced inflation and increased medical costs due to Bush's "doughnut hole."

Obama's tax plan will be a big help to me.
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vippy
Carpe Diem!
07:10 AM on 08/13/2008
I agree. I am still working though I do get social security, but $ 1000 a month is a joke. And my
other retirement would squeeze me too. However, I have to give back to Social Security one out of
every two dollars I make. What a shame and I believe no one in congress/senate even knows how bad the average American is living today. They squeeze and squeeze more out for them,
they get a huge retirement while they cut ours, they get automatic pay increases while we can't get any, they vote against min. wage increase because they make too much and yet, still take bribes from the lobbyists. How fair is that. Time to vote them all out.
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02:40 PM on 08/13/2008
I just don't understand why the article tells the lie that Seniors don't pay taxes on their Social Security. That's just hooey.

By the way, once you turn 65 (or maybe its 66) you can earn all you want to without having your Social Security reduced at all. I know because I had a co-worker who worked until he was 70, and he fell into that category. However, you still have to pay taxes on whatever Social Security payments you collect, no matter how old you are.

Why is it that the GOP always calls Social Security an "entitlement," like it was something we weren't really entitled to? I've been paying into it since I started working, in High School. Every one I know thinks it is wonderful to be able to get something back later in life, when it is hard to work.

I was thinking that maybe Obama understands what it is like for Seniors because he spent so much time being raised by his grandparents, so he knows first hand what its like to try to get by in one's old age.

Elitest my a**! If he was an elitest, he'd be pledging to cut taxes further on Big Corporations, and to subsidise Big Oil some more, like his Republican opponent.
10:20 AM on 08/14/2008
If the elderly take $10,000 a year out of their 401k, most will pay taxes on Social Security.
07:55 PM on 08/12/2008
Yeah, Obama would get rid of the capital gains tax on those same seniors. AARP needs to do some more research.
10:25 AM on 08/14/2008
Most of the seniors will pay regular taxes on their 401ks. The money in a 401k is tax deferred, so it isn't eligible for capital gains taxes. We will pay regular taxes on every penny we pull out.
07:43 PM on 08/12/2008
I'm one of those "seniors" who "makes" less than $50,000 a year. In other words, the income on my tax return is less than $50,000. But I have well over a million $ in assets. There's no way that a guy like me should be at the head of the line for a tax break. It would be irresponsible.

Furthermore, the country is on the brink of insolvency... we should be hearing about tax INCREASES and spending cuts - not new tax cuts. The estate tax should be the first to be increased. It would do the country a tremendous amount of good to tax the likes of GW, the Waltons, and other third/fourth/fifth generation plutocrats out of existence. I'd like to see an exemption of maybe $500,000 per kid - perhaps 2 million for a disabled child - and the rest taxed at 100%. Use the proceeds to provide free training for good students, and to help fund creative/needed business start-ups for enterprising people. No more right-wing plutocrats with enough $ to become a pestilence, and an abundance of hard-working young people set off on solid footing.
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psychmaj323
07:53 AM on 08/13/2008
I understand this, but the average senior does not have millions of dollars, many of them rely on social security and to not give them some relief because a few of you have money, isn't fair.

That's why he's INCREASING taxes on the wealthy.
09:59 AM on 08/13/2008
Back when the debate on the estate tax first arose, I was impressed when multi-billionaire Larry Ellison announced that he supported the estate tax. He pointed out that without the historical 50% tax . the majority of the nation's wealth would still be in the hands of the Carnegies, Astors and Rockefellers, leaving no resources for people like him who started with nothing. The estate tax is what prevents us from devolving into a feudal system.
06:16 PM on 08/12/2008
If you are a senior citizen and working for under 50K a year you probably DON"T have a pension- or a paid off mortgage. Who can pay a mortgage for under 50K a year?

If you are a senior who has all the advantages that people are arguing make this a bad idea, likely you are either 1. buying lots of services to stimulate the local economy and support businesses or 2. doing lots of contributing through volunteer work and donations (if you are really well off and into more than just playing). If you are a senior citizen who loves working and has 30-50 years experience doing whatever you do- you probably make more than 50K anyhow, in which case you are still paying taxes.
I think EVERYONE making less than 50K a year should go tax free. Starting with the seniors is the best idea i ahve heard in awhile.
07:19 PM on 08/12/2008
Nah, it's a bad idea. I'm one of those "seniors" who "makes" less than $50,000 a year. In other words, the income on my tax return is less than $50,000. But I have well over a million $ in assets. There's no way that a guy like me should be at the head of the line for a tax break. Furthermore, the country is on the brink of insolvency... we should be hearing about tax INCREASES and spending cuts - not new tax cuts. The irresponsibility displayed by politicians is getting old.
10:51 PM on 08/12/2008
bobsmith,

Maybe the tax cut could include an asset cap. You get a tax cut only if you have assets of less than XXX. But then you run into the problem of punishing those who saved and invested vs others who made an equal amount of money who lived lavishly and didn't save or invest.

Maybe it should go by the wages you earned while working. That would eliminate punishing those who saved and invested and so have 'assets'.

I am proud to see that Obama realizes the middle class could use a tax cut, but I want to do what is best for the country, too.
05:40 PM on 08/12/2008
I am all for helping the seniors as much as possible. This government can piss away money on never ending wars, corruption at the highest levels , yet still have the balls to act like all seniors are well to do. It is a crime the way we treat our older people when they are of no longer of use to the state.
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thinklib
I will not mince words.
05:23 PM on 08/12/2008
Don't overthink this.

Whether the tax plan 'works' or not isn't the issue. Obama is making a play for the senior vote, pure and simple.
06:15 PM on 08/12/2008
Why shouldn't he vie for their vote, as long as he keeps his word and
helps them I am all for it. If it's good enough for Cindy and Exxon John
it should be good enough for my parents Senator Obama I am very proud
of you and your willingness to always help others.
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JayHorus
Your talking points don't impress me!
06:49 PM on 08/13/2008
At least Obama is thinking of something that can help a some of the seniors, even if it would benifit some of the seniors that don't need it like bobsmith. The interesting thing is that Obama is trying to at least help some, McCain's plan would screw them all.
03:07 PM on 08/12/2008
It's all good as long as someone else does not have to pay more taxes to fund it.
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karela
09:37 PM on 08/12/2008
Well, we found out today that two thirds of all corporations in America aren't paying any tax at all. Big oil gets huge tax breaks and McCain wants to give them billions more. Warren Buffet is the richest man in the world and he says that it's disgraceful that his secretary pays a higher effective tax rate then he does. The top 1% of the wealthiest Americans are on McCain's list to receive extended tax breaks, but not seniors or low to middle income families. I don't know about you, but I'm OK with some people paying more income tax. It's way past time that we got rid of all the loop holes in the tax code that have been written in to protect the wealthy at the expense of the poor. Not long ago there was a story about an 86 year old woman with an income of about $20,000/year who still had to pay taxes and as a result had to do without basic needs. We've been very zealous about protecting the wealthy. John and Cindy McCain are some of the wealthiest people in their state, but John still draws Social Security as well as disability from the Navy. That's goofy! Obama wants seniors to be able to live with dignity. I think it's a good idea. For a long time now the wealthy haven't been carrying their share of the load. Time to fix that.
02:07 PM on 08/12/2008
I am an Obama supporter, on Social Security. I've worked hard all my life, saved, and contributed into Social Security since I was 15. I've been a single mother for 24 years. I'm 63 (have become disabled), and am extremely frugal. My budget is tight with no leeway to buy anything extra but food and gas. My savings is essentially gone (no dividends/capital gains). I'm okay. I'm making it each month.

I've never expected anything from anyone and take pride in that I have not paid one cent finance charge on a credit card my entire life. If I can't pay for it within the month, I don't buy it. Other than regular bills each month, I have no debt. I consider myself lucky.

I don't mind paying income taxes on my Social Security, because I feel I need to contribute my share. I also know there are many senior citizens less fortunate than me. What makes me angry is seeing the waste in government and the increasing level of poverty in one of the richest nations on earth. I believe in Senator Obama, realizing he won''t be able to fulfill all his promises/plans. But I also believe in my heart he will do all he can by asking the rich to give a little more to help those struggling to make it in this economy. He has the integrity, intelligence and good judgment to provide the necessary leadership we need in Washington.
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dadw5boys
Disabled Vietnam Vet
02:26 PM on 08/12/2008
The old lady found a check stub of mine from a job I had at age 12 and the people had withheld S.S. on me then lol. I don;t think I even knew it.
Viper
Former repub, still repenting
05:13 PM on 08/12/2008
You did not get a deduction when you paid into social security. In otherwords you paid income taxes on what went into social security every year you worked.

Its been taxed once already!

To tax social earnings again when distributed is pure crap!

The Expert is wrong. First why should you pay more taxes to make up for some one else who is raising kids at their option? Absurd and they get tax credits for said kids that the senior does not lowering their effective tax rate.... Excuse me 50% of ones property taxes go to schools .. and the seniors dont have kids going there. Additionally they still pay sales taxes and property taxes and insurance. Even if the house is paid off (LT 5% of retires is that true for), their property and insurance is higher than their original total payments were do to increases over the years. And of course electric and maintenace continues to go up. Retirement funds from SEP/401Ks are taxed as regular income... 50K which includes the Soc Sec you have already been taxed on is not much along with your retirement distributions to live on. And remember healthcare for seniors is very expensive. Medicare does not start to 67.

Regards

Regards



Regards
11:08 PM on 08/12/2008
Viper, you need to go to Medicare.gov and socialsecurity.gov and read up on it.
Medicare starts at 65. You can retire and draw social security at 62, but the full retirement age is around 66 now and is gradually going to be raised to 67. You get 30% less if you start drawing SS benefits at 62 than if you wait until full retirement age.

I don't mind paying property taxes even though my children are grown. Most families have someone in the public schools most of the time. My mother went, my siblings and I went, then our children went, now their children are going and so it goes.

I do think that taxes on Social Security should be sent back to the Social Security fund and not put in the general fund. With computers that wouldn't be hard to do.

The last I knew, the Social Security office would keep sending checks to people who had died, then would swoop in and ask for the money back and have it put in the general fund. Another way to rip off Social Security?



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