Corruption In Wind Power: Upstate New York's Intimidation Problem

BURKE, N.Y. -- Everywhere that Janet and Ken Tacy looked, the wind companies had been there first.

Dozens of people in their small town had already signed lease options that would allow wind towers on their properties. Two Burke Town Board members had signed private leases even as they negotiated with the companies to establish a zoning law to permit the towers. A third board member, the Tacys said, bragged about the commissions he would earn by selling concrete to build tower bases. And, the Tacys said, when they showed up at a Town Board meeting to complain, they were told to get lost.

"There were a couple of times when they told us to just shut up," recalled Mr. Tacy, sitting in his kitchen on a recent evening.

Read the full story here

Related:

::Why Pickens' Plan Is No Surprise: Wind Is Just Like Any Other Business

Comments

[SurrealPumpkin]

Enough!

Wind Power is not perfect.
Fossil Pwer is not perfect.
Nuclear Pwer is not perfect
Solar Power is not perfect.

Come up with some constructive ideas.

I personally will probably go with a home solar power system. I live in Florida and wind turbines seem a bit dangerous. On the other hand I get lots of sun all year long.

Wind Turbines are noisy? Is anyone looking into mufflers or other solutions? What's a reasonable compromise between distance from residential areas and distance from the power grid? Come on, fellow posters, use those creative brains of yours and start find solutions, not problems.

[OrionGal]

Diversify the Portfolio of Energy -

don't put all our eggs in only Oil, or only Nuclear, or only Wind, or only Battery,
or only Solar (hello I live in the Pacific NW and we get a lot of overcast GREY days)

DIVERSIFY

[NTO08]

Hmmm...Pickens wants wind power so Huffpo has to put this out that it's corrupt...
I don't like the guy, especially after what he did to Kerry, but this nonsense is sad.

[dora rice]

Wind turbines are some noisy buggers. The noise will drive you crazy.

[mredder4]

I can honestly say that until now, I did not realize that I have seen them [windmills] from a distance, but have never heard them. I've been a proponent so far, but maybe I should go find a wind farm and see what the noise level is actually like before I say anything for or against it anymore.

[enilorac]

Great that the New York Times has finally come out to report that all is not well in the land of Wind Farms, which are really Industrial Parks of a sort. Wind Energy has been Romanticized as a panacea for all our energy problems, but they are not all for the good.
In New York State there are no regulations as to where they can be put, once one is talking ex ex ex-urbs ie the beautiful countryside and State and National park lands. The State house needs to work with the Preservation League of New York State to put some regulations into law. View corridors of great historic and touristic importance should be off limits, as should be any siting of Wind Farms near State and National Register parklands and buildings. Plus people, the locals, should be able to weigh in.
As the article pointed out, most of the investors in Wind Farms are not local, although they do pay locals as little as they can possibly get away with for use of their land, and often without neighbors having any say in the matter, or no effective right to weigh in on the impacts.
Every State needs to have a law that there is due process with these ghastly big machines coming into communities. People got all in a twist about cell phone towers a few years ago, but Wind Power machines are mythically, supposedly good, when they are not necessarily so.

[edis]

Okay, quit screaming "Liberal!" and "Conservative" at each other, children, or you'll be sent to bed early.

I live in Upstate New York, and we have bigger problems than windmills.

Right now, gas companies are engaged in a major landgrab in the Catskills. They want to use a new kind of horizontal drilling called hydrofracturing, which involves shooting toxic chemicals into the ground to release gas from the underground shale. In Wyoming, Colorado, Texas, New Mexico, West Virginia, and Pennsylvania, there have been thousands of wells poisoned by this process. Once those chemicals are in the springs or in the aquifers (which are basically great underground lakes), it's all over.

The companies are sending landmen around to con residents into signing leases, and swear that there have NEVER been any problems with this process. In short, to quote a landowner in Pennsylvania, "They lie, they lie, they lie, and the land is raped forever."

Doubly ironic is the fact that this process may poison the New York City reservoirs - you know, the same ones they sank entire towns to build.

A lot of people who used to object to windmills are taking a long second look.

They are coming for our beautiful mountains. Our only choice is: what will they be used for?

P.S. - Solar power up here has limited use. Our winter days are SHORT with limited sunlight.

[NTO08]

Right...spend a winter in upstate NY...you celebrate a day when the sun comes out.

[TheJibreelaMonsters]

haha, I'm a upstate NY lifer, and I know

[Robert59]

This article highlights an even bigger problem, the lack of a national energy independence plan. The best place to put wind farms is offshore. The state with the best wind is North Dakota. The wind turbines should be located away from populated areas making offshore siting and North Dakota (low population density) better locations.

I'm unconvinced wind is a better choice than solar thermal. A great deal of our country is sunny and lightly populated. Solar thermal can provide 24/7 energy which wind can't.

I fear we'll see the same thing happen in West Texas where people will lease land because they need the money. The good news is there's a lot more open land and fewer people.

These farms produce noise pollution which is why they need to be located away from people.

[Viper]

You have to locate the turbines where there is a population to use the energy nearby and transmission lines to that population. To get the wind generated electric in texas to the cities, cost as much as the wind farms.

This is more of not in my back yard! And why we are in this mess.

Regards

[Liberal2]

"...You have to locate the turbines where there is a population to use the energy nearby and transmission lines to that population. ..."

No you don't. SciAm recently had an article that offered a good idea. We have natural gas pipelines crisscrossing the country. The windmills could generate hydrogen from water and send the hydrogen across the nation via said pipelines.

[ilovemydoggy]

Anywhere there is money there is corruption. There should be adherence to a strict process in decision making if possible. We must forge ahead with new energy options.

Baby boomer views: http://www.Vaboomer.com

[cayuse1]

Living in Eastern Washington that is mostly desert with allot of wind and seeing Wind Farms stuck in the rare mountains. I understand the problem

Small poor local communities are being attacked by big business and foreign investment, while congress sits ideally or with their hands out.

This country needs a Federal or State policy and BPA needs to take control of managing effective and efficiency here

Most farms are being subsidized by Tax payer dollars (1.2 out of 2 million) and the local residence and tax payers are only going to get higher electric rates and uncontrollable growth while the real wealth of this power will come to business with CAP and TRADE agreements

The net will not be green energy, but GREEN BUCKS for the few

[mamacat]

One lady complained that the wind turbines made her dizzy. I suspect she was dizzy long before the wind mill went up.

[NL207]

I think we should construct a wind turbine farm on the land adjacent to your home without regard to compensating you for any negative effects it may have on your quality of life. We need green power and you couldn't possibly have any valid objections to such land use ....

[PurplePhase]

A NY sanitation worker can't sweet a sidewalk without the Mafia or government dipping into his pockets for what they consider is their fair share.

[elan4444]

Shock-a-rama photo! Hanging out clothes to dry. Do you realize that a clothesline is actually prohibited by some CC&Rs? The sight of clean laundry is considered visually polluting I suppose. All I remember from putting out the wash on the line as a child, as many will not remember, was the association of being out-of-doors, taking freshly wrung-out clothes and attaching them to the line with wooden pins so they could dry. Stretching the bottom hems of shirts would result in less ironing. I can still remember the lovely fresh smell of our sheets and towels that had been hung out to dry. My daughters were denied this experience until we moved to England where, quelle horreur! (to them) we were not provided with a clothes dryer. But they soon found that a special camaraderie grew between themselves just by hanging out the wash together. They found that they had to be cognizant of the weather, making a run for the back yard with a wicker basket in hand, if it began to rain. Some of the simple things in life can be some of the nicest.

[NL207]

The clothesline is about 2 meters tall. Large Wind Turbines are very close to 200 meters tall. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_turbine#Record-holding_turbines

[research]

This has nothing to do with wind energy...

Welcome to American Business.

[NL207]

This also has nothing to do with business.

It has everything to do with looting a natural resource, that is disrupting the aesthetic beauty of those regions in order to harvest wind power for the benefit of a large population center over 100 miles away. Not enough money is being offered to convince all local landowners necessary to lease their property for this purpose, so government force is being used to coerce the remainder.

Very simple, really, and the bad guys in this equation are the Liberal Democrats from New York City and their various political supporters. Your favorite people, I should think, the East Coast versions of Pelosi and company.

There are plenty of suitable offshore sites in the Northeast for wind power. If these coastal cities want to go green power, they can do it right in their own backyards without the cost of lengthy transmission lines. Instead it is more politically expedient to tyrannize a few remote landowners. This is the essence of what the founders were trying to prevent with eminent domain.

[jvarga]

Exactly how are you blaming new york city politicians on happenings in rural upstate new york? Especially since the story talks about LOCAL governments. You realize there is a whole state attached to that city, right? In case you don't, here's a primer. New York City is not local to vast majority of the state.

[research]

Mostly agreed, I like offshore for the big turbines.

But blaming the democrats is laughable. There was no discussion of the use of eminent domain.

These people volunteered to have the turbines on their farms. The people adjacent we paid for any noise inconvenience.

This one guy, Tacy, is pissed because his father wanted the money.

[RRK70]

There will be plenty of people, just as there are in Cape Cod, who will also claim that the aesthetic beauty is being destroyed. Who are you to state that Adirondack horizons are worth saving while Atlantic ones are not?

My point being, almost ANY alternative energy site can be attacked by NIMBY's for any one of various reasons. I guess as long as oil comes from the middle east we'll all be happy

[RRK70]

Ah, the NIMBY (Not In My Backyard) crowd rises again! Must be nice to be financially secure enough where energy prices are meaningless.
ANY energy source will require sacrifice of some source. Oil and nuclear may seem a nicer option for the "aesthetically concerned" crowd.

I urge them to go visit a nuclear power plant, uranium minds, uranium processing facilities and nuclear waste sites and tell the members of THOSE communities that they will have to just make due as the Upstate NY skyline is more important then these people's health and safety.

I also urge them to go to Walter Reed Army Hospital and tell the men and women their losing lives, limbs, and family that their sacrifice for the sake of the skyline is appreciated and to keep up the fight.

I LOVE Upstate NY, it is truly breathtaking scenery. However 1) the Adirondack State park is NOT being developed, and transitioning from coal to wind will actually preserve the ecological integrity of the region. 2) Wind is much more democratic than other energy forms. Nuclear or col, the residents of the areas would suffer all the negative consequences while not benefiting at all. 3) I think the windmills are beautiful, mostly for what they represent; a future that includes energy independence using renewable energy.

[NL207]

Maybe you should go there and explain all this to these narrow minded people? I'm sure they'd like to hear you. And do mind the men driving pickups with empty rifle racks in the back window.

[RRK70]

I'm not sure what your point is. Sorry, but anyone whose stance against renewable energy is purely based on aesthetics IS being rather narrow minded. I agree that utility companies have to be monitored closely for any abuses. The main point of my comments though was to address those who have aesthetic arguments against renewables.

[sheila]

since you are all for "democratic" energy, then why not support point of use renewables instead of heavily-recentralized Big Energy monopolies like "wind farms" and "solar farms" which destroy and steal properties, hijack ratepayers and taxpayers and do not make us "independent" from anything except other fuels also fully owned and operated by Big Energy. you saw the corruption - these are not "good guys" here!

total dependence on Big Wind is no more liberating than total dependence on Big Oil. they are the same mercenary creeps externalizing all their costs onto ratepayers, taxpayers, and the environment, while privatizing all the profits. time to start supporting harmless, clean power generation, storage, smart metering and conservation AT POINT OF USE, and stop making excuses for Big Energy to re-entrench their monopolies in a wind and sun fueled era.

[RRK70]

You raise some good points. I definitely support point of use renewables. I think it would be great. I am all for legislation that promotes point of use and backwards metering. The fact is though, that many might not be able to afford them, and they are not universally applicable.

No where did I state that we should be totally dependent on Big Wind. I am not making excuses for Big Energy, I am just concerned that the movement AWAY from petro and nuke will be absolutely PARALYZED by "infighting" regarding the route alternatives go.

I can guarantee you that Big Oil and their group will use every issue to divide progressives and slow development and promote the status quo. I just don't think that utility based wind and point of use are mutually exclusive of each other? Do you?

[RRK70]

I am all for Point of use, backwards metering etc. The more decentralized the better. I don't think that point of use is universally applicable. I just don't think that we can turn our backs on the development of any renewable energy alternatives.

We DO have to remain vigilant regarding utility companies or Big Energy taking advantage. I am VERY concerned that infighting will occur as to the best course for the future of renewables, and I think Big Energy will use wedge issues to divide and conquer and promote the status quo. I think this could paralyze ANY progress.

I don't think Point of Use or micro-renewables and Utility based renewables are mutually exclusive.

[Viper]

Yes a 100 ft wind turbine in everyones yard really solves the problem.. that way everyone can complain ..... and servicing them will be a real problem...

Its pretty plain to see we might as well stick to oil.... wind is now not good to use either and those harnesing it and selling it are stealing a resource and destroying the world... just to enrich themselves... Its not like no one will get elecrtrci to heat and light there house.

No wonder the DEMs are in trouble! Never a rational solution .. just donts... which leave us right in the mess we are in.. Complain about $5.00 per gallon and global warming... but no wind turbines until they cut the power off.. and then it will be crying time!

Regards




Regards

[jvarga]

They've been doing this in upstate new york for a while. I remember reading about it when I was home for Christmas from college (5ish years ago). Most shocking to me was that there was such a strong tourism industry in the area that they felt it would be ruined by wind mills.

[RRK70]

I wonder how the tourism would be affected by acid rain produced by all the coal power plants?

Change requires sacrifice. The photo in the article is very apropos, as I have seen articles where people have complained about people drying their clothes on clotheslines. Some think this is aesthetically unpleasing and lowers property values. Others defend it as the most common sense approach to conserving energy.

[Tamalpais]

There are NIMBY's that have lived in a location for decades and they do have a valid right to voice their concerns over what happens in their local area. At least they have made a long term commitment to that community. It is the NIMBY's that move into an area and act like they have been there forever who are the real problem. I can only assume that you live in some hell hole that has already lost any aesthetical quality. If you truly believe the cost vs. kilowatt argument then you should not be oposed to any type of energy regardless of the source. None of these windmill farms are going to close any excisting power plants.

[fumes]

the wind turbines ruin the beauty that is upstate ny, it's a shame. i've been there, and i've seen it. great concept though, just an ugly result. a redesign perhaps? cloak them like the cell phone towers? dunno

[jvarga]

I lived there for the first 21 years of my life. Seems fine to me. Hell from my parents house (on top of a big hill) you could see the cooling tower of the nuclear plant in Oswego on a clear day., many miles away People down the road from them put up their own wind turbine and no one seems to care.

[fumes]

your point?

[Viper]

If you cloak them.. then you will sheild the wind from them...

Gee, change is such a hard thing... No matter where they are put they will change some ones view.. thats a given... Many people think the dessert and the sunsets are as pretty as upstate NY.

Palm Sprigs is also a tourist area and it is surrounded by large wind farms. I had a condo there adjacent to one with over a h8undred towers in the middle 80s. No Big Deal!

And clearing the land for farming also by the way changes the view as does building a house.

So if you are against affecting the view, then wind turbines are out...

Regards

[JScott]

Perhaps if they sited 'danish or dutch style' windmills instead of wind turbines, not quite as efficient but seems to me there would be less opposition, more could be built.

[Checquoline]

Good idea.