Pakistan Fires On US Recon Helicopters As Tensions Mount

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FISNIK ABRASHI | September 25, 2008 03:35 PM EST | AP

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US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Pakastan's President Asif Ali Zardari shake hands as they arrive for their meeting at the Intercontinental Hotel, Thursday, Sept. 25 , 2008, in New York. (AP Photo/ Louis Lanzano)

KABUL, Afghanistan — Pakistani troops fired at American reconnaissance helicopters near the Afghan-Pakistan border Thursday, and ground troops then exchanged fire, the U.S. military said.

No injuries were reported, but the incident heightened tensions as the U.S. steps up cross-border operations in a volatile region known as a haven for Taliban and al-Qaida militants.

Two American OH-58 reconnaissance helicopters, known as Kiowas, were on a routine afternoon patrol in the eastern province of Khost when they received small-arms fire from a Pakistani border post, said Tech Sgt. Kevin Wallace, a U.S. military spokesman. There was no damage to aircraft or crew, officials said.

U.S. Central Command spokesman Rear Adm. Greg Smith said Pakistan and American ground troops exchanged fire after Pakistani forces shot at the helicopters.

He said a joint patrol of Americans and Afghan border police was moving about a mile and a half inside Afghanistan with the helicopters above them. The ground troops reported that Pakistani forces fired toward the helicopters and when they saw that happen, they fired off suppression rounds toward the hilltop.

They did so, Smith said from Centcom headquarters in Tampa, Fla., "to make certain that they (the Pakistanis) realized they should stop shooting."

The Pakistani border patrol forces then shot back down on the joint location of the U.S.-Afghan patrol. "The whole thing lasted five minutes," Smith said.

The Pakistani military, however, said its troops fired warning shots after the helicopters crossed "well within" Pakistani territory.

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"On this, the helicopters returned fire and flew back," the Pakistani military said in an English-language statement.

And in New York, Pakistan's new president, Asif Ali Zardari, said his military fired only "flares" at foreign helicopters that he claimed strayed across the border from Afghanistan.

Zardari said his forces fired only as a way "to make sure that they know that they crossed the border line."

"Sometimes the border is so mixed that they don't realize they have crossed the border," he told reporters before he began a meeting with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.

The Pakistani military said the matter was "being resolved" in consultations between the army and the NATO force in Afghanistan. A NATO statement said the militaries were "working together to resolve the matter."

The U.S. has stepped up attacks on suspected militants in the frontier area, mostly by missiles fired from unmanned drones operating from Afghanistan. The incursions _ especially a ground raid into South Waziristan by American commandos Sept. 3 _ have angered many Pakistanis.

Pakistani army spokesman Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas said last week that Pakistani field commanders have previously tolerated international forces crossing a short way into Pakistan because of the ill-defined and contested nature of the mountainous frontier.

"But after the (Sept. 3) incident, the orders are clear," Abbas said. "In case it happens again in this form, that there is a very significant detection, which is very definite, no ambiguity, across the border, on ground or in the air: open fire."

On Wednesday, Pakistan's army said it had found the wreckage of a suspected surveillance drone in South Waziristan, but denied claims by Pakistani intelligence officials that troops and local people shot down the aircraft.

In Washington, Defense Department spokesman Bryan Whitman said the coalition immediately requested an explanation from Pakistan for what he described as a "troubling" incident.

"It would be fairly hard to mistake a helicopter flying in that region as anything but ISAF or U.S.," Whitman said.

He said militants have always tried to exploit the border region.

"It's a challenge along the border and that's why we continue to look for ways to improve our coordination," Whitman said.

Asked how Pakistani forces could mistake U.S. helicopters for enemy forces _ especially since Taliban and al-Qaida forces don't have aircraft _ Whitman said: "Only Pakistan can articulate their intent."

Pakistani civilian leaders have condemned the cross-border operations by U.S. forces, which have been authorized by President Bush, while the army has vowed to defend Pakistan's territory "at all cost."

"We will not tolerate any act against our sovereignty and integrity in the name of the war against terrorism," Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani told journalists Wednesday. "We are fighting extremism and terror not for any another country, but our own country. This is our own war."

Pakistan's tribal areas have become a breeding ground for Taliban and al-Qaida militants, who are launching attacks inside Pakistan but also across the border into Afghanistan, where the levels of violence have reached record heights since the ouster of the Taliban from power in the U.S.-led invasion in 2001.

More than 4,600 people _ mostly militants _ have died this year in insurgency-related violence in Afghanistan, and the levels of violence in the eastern Afghanistan are 30 percent higher compared to the same period last year, officials say.

___

Associated Press reporter Pauline Jelinek contributed to this report from Washington.

KABUL, Afghanistan — Pakistani troops fired at American reconnaissance helicopters near the Afghan-Pakistan border Thursday, and ground troops then exchanged fire, the U.S. military said. No in...
KABUL, Afghanistan — Pakistani troops fired at American reconnaissance helicopters near the Afghan-Pakistan border Thursday, and ground troops then exchanged fire, the U.S. military said. No in...
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- Hrotea I'm a Fan of Hrotea 2 fans permalink

WHAT HAD NOT HAPPENED BEFORE FINALLY DID: PAKISTAN AND U.S. EXCHANGED FIRE AT AFGHAN-PAKISTAN BORDER WHEN AMERICAN PILOTS IGNORED ISLAMABAD WARNING

By Hermie Rotea

Pakistan Thursday showed that it meant business when it had issued an order to its soldiers to shoot at United States planes or troops that cross its border in pursuit of Al Qaeda militants. Pakistani troops fired at two American reconnaissance helicopters near the Afghan-Pakistan border. Ground troops then exchanged fire. Luckily no injuries or damage were reported by the U.S. military based in Kabul.

U.S. Central Command spokesman Rear Adm. Greg Smith confirmed that Pakistani and American ground troops had exchanged fire after Pakistani forces shot at the helicopters.

The incident illustrated once again that U.S. military authorities based in Afghanistan still do not get it. In their frustration and failure to kill or capture Osama bin Laden and his Al Qaeda forces that flee in the direction of the Pakistani border, they are carried away by the great temptation to stray near or cross the Pakistani border in pursuit of the enemy.

They must realize that although Pakistan is an ally of the United States in its so-called war on terror, the Islamabad government of Pakistani President Asif Zardari, widower of former U.S.-exiled and assassinated Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, had made it plain that it does not want the United States to continue violating Pakistani sovereignty. Why can the U.S. military do it right?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:44 AM on 09/26/2008
- AnnArky I'm a Fan of AnnArky 35 fans permalink
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So now, in this so-called war on terror, it's the "good guys" against the "good guys" it Us against Us. We have so totally f*cked this up that we no loner know against whom we're fighting And the Taliban is laughing all the way to the bank. May God/Allah (if he or she is listening) help us all.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:40 AM on 09/26/2008
- Marichu I'm a Fan of Marichu 16 fans permalink
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The US and Afghan ground troops fired on the Pakistanis "to make certain that they (the Pakistanis) realized they should stop shooting." But the Pakistani border patrol didn't stop shooting. They in turn "shot back down on the joint location of the U.S.-Afghan patrol." This is certainly a convoluted way of getting people to stop shooting at each other.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:19 PM on 09/25/2008
- LITU I'm a Fan of LITU 106 fans permalink
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"Sometimes the border is so mixed that they don't realize they have crossed the border," he told reporters…

I’ll lend them my Tom Tom.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:23 PM on 09/25/2008

probably TomTom of USA helicopters does not work too :(

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:00 AM on 09/26/2008

first off . . who the hell just fires "flares" at a helicopter? . . .this man must think we're all idiots. if they fired at us, then we should have blown them away.

this never would have happened if they'd just give up bin laden and the rest of them. because everyone knows that that's where they are hiding.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:29 PM on 09/25/2008
- anthead I'm a Fan of anthead 10 fans permalink
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WOW what a great idea that is. Get your head examined.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:05 AM on 09/26/2008

ITS PAKISTANS FAULT (PART ONE)

On Wednesday, (24th) September, (US/MIC/IA) United States Military Industrial Command in Afghanistan, provoked incident number (9) nine in a sting of incidents dating back to September (1st). This was the (9th) ninth attack upon Pakistan by the either (JSOC/CIA/RSO/IC) Joint Special Operations Command, Central Intelligence Agency, Regional Senior Operative, In Charge, and now by the (US/MIC/IA) since the (1st) of September, (5) five missile attack, and (3) commando unit incursions, with (2) two repelled, and now a reconnaissance over flight, not counting the downing a (UAV) Unmanned Aero Vehicle, on reconnaissance. And by repeating these operations the (US/MIC) is daily deepening the well of resentment against itself that no amount of aid or pious diplomatic platitudes will ever fill, within the region or Muslim world, creating organizations such as "Fedayeen Al-Islam", Arabic for "Islam commandos" in Pakistan.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:03 PM on 09/25/2008

IT'S PAKISTANS FAULT ? (PART TWO

Two American (OH-58) reconnaissance helicopters, known as Kiowa’s, were on a routine afternoon patrol in the eastern province of Khost when a Pakistani border post unit, with very clear orders not to fire across the border, fired anticipatory warning shots, and or flares, when the helicopters passed over their border post positions well within Pakistani territory trying to make sure that the two (ISAF/OH-58) reconnaissance helicopters knew that they had crossed the border line, the (2) two (ISAF/OH-58), returned hostile fire against the Pakistani boarder unit, making a rapid retreat into Afghanistan territory, and out of Pakistani Territory.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:02 PM on 09/25/2008

IT'S PAKISTAN'S FAULT ? (END PART)

Tech Sgt. Kevin Wallace, one of the (ISAF/OH-58) reconnaissance helicopters crew members says it was O.K. because they never crossed the border, no one was hurt and there was no damage to the helo’s, so that makes it alright.

But, unlike the past usual denials “There was no such incursion, there was no such event.” Defense Department Bryan Whitman, made a blame the injured party comment, “Troubling, It would be fairly hard to mistake a helicopter flying in that region as anything but (ISAF) or U.S., It would be fairly hard to mistake a helicopter flying in that region as anything but (ISAF) or (U.S.), Only Pakistan can articulate their intent.”

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:01 PM on 09/25/2008
- ensure I'm a Fan of ensure 4 fans permalink

Pakistanis Say Suspected US Drone Shot Down
http://www.sefermpost.com/sefermpost/2008/09/pakistanis-say.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:04 PM on 09/25/2008
- JoeBlough I'm a Fan of JoeBlough 60 fans permalink
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Gee, maybe we shouldn't be sticking our nose into another country's business. We can't afford it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:00 PM on 09/25/2008

i know...seriously...no matter what, pakistan is still a sov. nation. we can't just attack them with out any indication whatsoever....and then not expect retaliation. i think we have enough on our plate that we dont need to start anything else...jeez

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:36 PM on 09/25/2008
- pzdoff I'm a Fan of pzdoff 2 fans permalink

Someone had better pose the question to the deserter-in-chief........who are we going to go to war with first Mr. deserter-in-chief.......Iran or Pakistan?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:56 PM on 09/25/2008
- ChristiB I'm a Fan of ChristiB 4 fans permalink

The only way Republicans are gonna win this election is if they get Bin Laden - so Bush is moving to get him. Simple as that. How else to explain why Bush sat on his fanny these last 7 years in a vendetta against his daddy's foe?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:53 PM on 09/25/2008
- lobear00 I'm a Fan of lobear00 27 fans permalink

Bin Laden is very good 'friends ' with the bush family. That is why 'bush has not tried to capture him, bin laden is bush/cheny's meal ticket.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:45 PM on 09/25/2008

..

From what I understand, the new surge is going to be here at home.

A permanent DIVISION of WAR-TESTED soldiers for"crowd control".

Welcome to the Machine.

..

War is PEACE.

Freedom is SLAVERY.

Ignorance is STRENGTH.

.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:30 PM on 09/25/2008
- cdub1991 I'm a Fan of cdub1991 64 fans permalink

I sometimes wonder if we aren't going about this thing with Pakistan all wrong. We are talking to them as one nation to another. Perhaps we should instead approach it as one tribe to another and explain to them that this thing with al Queda and the Taliban is a blood feud for us. The Pakistani tribe can help us or stay out of our way, but we WILL have our blood. I suspect that many might respect such an admission on our part since it is somewhat consistent with the local culture.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:29 PM on 09/25/2008
- Zeje I'm a Fan of Zeje 9 fans permalink

The problem is that everytime US military drop bombs on civilians, killing women and children, we have another "blood feud" going with other "tribes."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:49 PM on 09/25/2008
- cdub1991 I'm a Fan of cdub1991 64 fans permalink

I accept your point. However, I'm not sure allowing al Qaeda a safe haven where they can function unmolested is an acceptable option. Sometimes there are no good alternatives. Our best bet is to find an argument that will convince the Pakistan government that we aren't going to stop, so their best bet is to work with us to finish this as quickly as possible. If they want to become an Islamic fundamentalist state afterwards, that's their business and their problem.

Of course, none of this would be necessary if we had just gone into Afghanistan strong in the first place, instead of putzing about with Iraq.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:17 PM on 09/25/2008

If US forces were fired on while in Afghanistan territory, then this is a signiicant problem and US must respond with overwhelming force. Specter gunships should accompany all US forces operating in that region. Nothing pacifices an area like Puff.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:28 PM on 09/25/2008
- Zeje I'm a Fan of Zeje 9 fans permalink

I guess there is something about going into another country and dropping bombs that turns people in those nations off.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:51 PM on 09/25/2008
- JoeBlough I'm a Fan of JoeBlough 60 fans permalink
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That's so like Cambodia last century.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:03 PM on 09/25/2008

Thats so sad to still see people being pro-war and pro killing of woman, children and men that have nothing to do with any of this. These secret wars need to stop or yes world war three will be a knocking. Will you sign up?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:15 PM on 09/25/2008
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Except of course they were in Pakistan and were warned unequivocally that they would be fired on if they made any further adventures across the border.

How dare the Pakistanis get angry when US helicopters fly in and blow up civilians! It's so ungracious of them!

"Overwhelming force" indeed. Listen, ya rube, that's exactly what Bush & Co. want, they want Pakistan to push it one step too far and then justify another major offensive, and by so doing give the Republicans the upper hand in the election.

The public still thinks the Republicans are better on "defense" even with two unwinnable protracted wars already being waged, and even when it involves the US acting in a manner we have routinely condemned and chastised from the UN.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:54 PM on 09/25/2008
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