What About 'Joe The Solar Guy?'

GreenInc:

Little new ground was broken on energy in the final presidential debate Wednesday night, but both candidates hammered away at their talking points on energy independence.

Senator John McCain prioritizes nuclear power. "We can eliminate our dependence on foreign oil by building 45 new nuclear plants, power plants, right away. We can store and we can reprocess," he said.

(It's an idea that's gaining momentum elsewhere, as James Kanter writes today.)

Read the whole story: GreenInc

Comments

[allwrite]

There is so much fertile ground for Obama's campaign here. I hope they pick up on it. Joe the Solar Guy. Joe the jobless. Joe the foreclosed. Joe the health insurance deprived. ...

[KillTheMessenger]

Let's just hope enough real Joes see the light this time around.

[blastit]

nuclear plants are to unsafe to use

However I have great hope for solar energy but my question is how do we make solar affordable, I'm anxiously awaiting the time when every new home will be built with solar energy.

[jackhidary]

45 nuclear plants would get us off oil ????

what is he smoking? we only use oil for TWO PERCENT of our electricity. building 100 nukes would not get us off oil unless all the 250 MILLION CARS in the US were scrapped and we bought everyone an electric car and we stopped using plastic and everything else made from oil.

WE USE OIL FOR TRANSPORTATION AND PLASTICS!!! PLEASE STOP CONFUSING TRANSPORTATION FUEL WITH POWER FUELS!

HOW CAN WE ELECT SOMEONE PRESIDENT WHO DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE?

[deepfreezevideo]

We would do well to note that "this ain't your father's nuclear power".
Nukes have made great strides in the intervening years since TMI and Chernobyl,
and NOT ONE reactor in the USA uses the type of control and cooling utilized by
Chernobyl.
McCain made a very cogent observation when he pointed out that
the US Navy has been running SAFE nuclear power for over sixty years.
He (and the Bush admininstration) FAILED miserably by not heeding
some of the other brilliant observations made by the father of the nuclear Navy,
Admiral Hyman Rickover, namely CONSERVATION and EFFICIENCY.
Rickover made a speech in 1958 entitled
"Energy Resources and Our Future"
http://energybulletin.net/23151.html
Democrats and Republicans alike would do well to read
the eerily prophetic message contained therein.

[KillTheMessenger]

US Navy reactors are basically welded shut. They run for ten to fifty years years on their first and in most cases only charge. Then they are being cut out of the vessel they are in and can be "disposed off" in one piece. The US buries them in a shallow hole in the ground. Out of sight, out of mind, they say. The Russians do not dispose of them at all, so far, they let the whole ships rot in a dock. That's probably actually still safer than trying to properly dismantle these reactors. I wouldn't be surprised if those reactors would need constant cooling and therefor had to remain in the water.

Naval reactors on the whole are a very different design from a power plant that needs its fuel replaced once a year or so. The fuel is different, the containment is different, the cooling is different.

Not to mention that the total output power of a Navy reactor is only a fraction of that of a land based reactor.

And lets not forget that in military applications cost is not a problem. The problems with civilian applications occur when the operator skips necessary steps because they want to maximize profit.

Anybody who compares these apples with the power oranges of the nuclear power industry

A) Has no clue.

and

B) Is lying in your face.

Most likely both.

[exile]

years ago they built a nuclear power plant 80 miles from my house.

after massive cost over runs it went online.

the cost was so much higher than the budget, our rates doubled to "help" pay for it.

the other half of the state has much lower costs because they use a very old coal plant that's polluting but was paid for years ago.

[pjburns11]

What about Surge Palin the PipeLayer?

What would you Name a Palin?

http://thetruthburns.wordpress.com/2008/10/18/could-her-emails-be-hiding-secret-palin-baby-names/

[RealHRCFansVoteObama]

As a member of a family that makes its own power (solar and wind) I often wonder why so little attention is paid to the need to improve energy efficiency as well as the need to cut wasteful activities.

The reality is going to be that in the very near future we are going to have to prioritize how we use our energy, and candidates seem to treat that with as much enthusiasm as telling voters they're going to raise taxes.

When people realize that 3% off shore oil isn't going to get us out of this mess, it's going to be a rude awakening if this culture has not become less wasteful.

[clarinetmama]

Is there a way on this site that we can communicate privately? I have some things I would like to talk to you about.

[KillTheMessenger]

We are using twice the amount of energy per capita of other developed countries without getting any quality of life in return.

We do not have an energy crisis. We have a waste crisis.

[NorthernMan]

One thing I don't understand is we don't burn crude oil or gasoline to make electricity, do we? so why will nuclear do anything to alleviate imported oil? I'm all for clean energy, that's great, but we will still be buying oil on an ever increasing scale until it runs out. The jet engine, the car, the truck and the ship suck it all down fast. Drill here and now cause it's running out and when it does we better find someway of fueling an F16 and an M1abrams or our super power will be the same as everyone else. Hydrogen, why isn't that working? Money? time? fear? excuses.

[ParanoidPollyanna]

You know what a Boondoggle, bottomless well to pour TAXPAYERS" Dollars into, while Private CONTRACTORS got Rich & Fat & Happy, the "BIG DIG" was?

Now imagine if Goverment plans to award PRIVATE CONTRACTS to build 45 NUKE Plants, which will take several YEARS to build, and will of course, end up with the cost probably DOUBLING, if they ever do get built and completed. Then, all the cost of Security, Maintenance, problem of Toxic Radioactive Waste, Contamination potential if there's even ONE serious Nuke Accident-- remember 3 Mile Island, Chernobyl, and a covered-up almost MELTDOWN at a Northern Nuke facility, which McCain visited the Town where it would have happened & spread Radioactivity all over the GREAT LAKES region;
Imagine what a TARGET for sabotage/terrorist attack each & every one of the proposed Nuke building Sites would be for Enemies of America.

Plus, building Nuclear Power plants to make ELECTRICITY, just doesn't make ECONOMIC sense. Way too expensive, short & long term costs. And, just exactly WHERE are these 45 or however many NUKE Plants going to be built? Do YOU want one built in YOUR Backyard? I sure don't!
(My current State Rep. in my District is a Repub. in favor of Kentucky getting a new Nuke Plant.)

[jerzyjc16]

You are not wrong to be wary of the government re nuclear plants. But the French get 80% of their electricity from Nuke plants, they re-cycle their fuel and don't have security and environmental problems of any great import. We should at least look at Nukes as one component of the solution. Electricity from Nukes to power electric cars might in the long run be a lower risk vs. the risk of increased greenhouse gas generated by gasoline burning cars.

But hybrid-gas engines are another component of safely reducing greenhouse gases, as well as more efficient home-heating, appliances and lawn-mowers (eg.). Clean coal technology doesn't exist but might be worth an investment.

I

Gasoline is now back to $3 per gallon, as a result of lower demand (people are driving less). Expect the Oil cartels to cut production an lower the supply so that prices can go up again. But if the U.S. government imposed a $1 per gallon gas tax (use the revenue to fund medicare and social security--2 problems solved!), consumers would be punished no more than they were this summer, and could always use less gas to keep the price around $4. And while no one likes paying more for gas, at least they could know that they'll be able to collect their SS payments when they retire and receive good medical care in their golden years.

[degenerate1991]

"One thing I don't understand is we don't burn crude oil or gasoline to make electricity, do we?"

In small scale operations, yes. The bigger problem is that we burn natural gas for power.

[OldKnute]

OK,, like we have Cuba right next door? Rich Volcanic Soils!

With Americas help new harvesting and processing can increase Cuban Sugar Cane yields 400%. Much of Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and Texas can be turned over to Sugar Cane production.

I favor the Jerusalem Artichoke for Bio-Fuels. 1,500 to 1,700 Gallons an acre in Alcohol production, Georgia, South and North Carolina.

As far as Solar, it’s is a now brainier. You are simply Pre-Paying your total power needs for the next 30 years. And is their anyone that thinks,,, Power Bills,,, will not go up?

Don’t just think in terms of Costs today,, think of your savings in 2020,,,, WOW,,, you were smart!

OR,,, we can just go to WAR with Iran, Saudi Arabia, China, Russia and half of Africa?????

We choose!

All the best

Knute Neo-LIB

[KillTheMessenger]

Ah... trolling again, I see!

[Greenus]

The Solar companies on www.UseGreenCompanies.com say that they are doing business all over the world but most are selling some that dont even work right

[KillTheMessenger]

Selling what that does not work right? Solar panels? Well, you get what you pay for. There is quality and then there is cheap stuff. In case of solar panels the price difference is probably not even worth mentioning, so why you would cheap out and not go with quality is beyond me.

[clarinetmama]

There is new solar technology being developed all the time. Pick up Mother Earth News or Acres USA at your local library. One of the things they are working on are thin solar strips that you can attach to your roof (I think they only work on metal roofs at this time). The oil companies are getting in on the solar market...they don't miss a beat, do they?

As the technology is developed the prices will become more affordable. A stationary solar panel is much cheaper than the one we have which tracks the sun. In the meantime there are lots of little things you can do that will help lower your prices. We use about a third of the power of an average home with CFC's, Energy Star appliances, drying clothes on the line outside, and turning appliances off when not being used. We have kept track of our power usage in a notebook next to the power meter. Some months are better than others.

If Al Gore had become President I believe we would be living in a a very different country. We need visionaries in our government who care more about the environment than making millions while destroying the planet.

In our case the power company wanted 20K to hook us up to the grid as we have a very long driveway. Instead of paying them for the privilege of paying every month we invested in our power system and haven't regretted it once.

[research]

google NanoSolar

1$ per peak watt, about 4$ per average watt.

[KillTheMessenger]

And they haven't shipped anything, yet. Right?

MakeBeliefSolar Inc. hasn't shipped their 49 cents per W panels, either.
So that totally beats NanoSolar.

:-)

[truelockCA]

Solar panel technology is part of Obama's 5 million new jobs on alt energy?! Now way, no how...solar panel technology is too expensive for middle America. Can any of you afford it? I can't.

[Nikola Tesla]

We can't afford to keep sending billions to Saudi Arabia!!!

Solar panels are a ONE TIME INVESTMENT. Once they are paid for, the energy is FREE!!!

NO MORE ENERGY BILLS!!!! EVER!!!!

How can we afford NOT TO GO SOLAR?

[KillTheMessenger]

"Solar panels are a ONE TIME INVESTMENT. Once they are paid for, the energy is FREE!!!"

May I suggest you look up the term NPV (net present value)? It might just help you avoid a few financial catastrophes in the future if you know how NPV works.

[research]

You can't afford your share of the coal plant either.

1$/peak watt for the NanoSolar panels. Look it up.

No you can't buy them yet.

[KillTheMessenger]

"No you can't buy them yet."

You can't buy my MakeBeliefSolar Inc. panels, either, but they only cost 49 cents per Watt!

:-)

[KillTheMessenger]

Solar panels are not as expensive as you think. Currently the cost for solar electricity is approx. 25 cents per kWh. If you were to ask me to pay twice as much for electricity as I am paying now and the money would go into solar, wind and other renewables, I would be more than glad to pay it. But in reality states which invest on large scales in these technologies have an approx. 1 cent per kWh surcharge at the moment. That's as much as it takes to install these things at the available capacity. Throwing more money at it is simply not possible because we can not make more panels and wind turbines at the moment. So how expensive is that for you? Well, depending on your electricity bill it's $3-10 per month.

Now, tell me that you can't pay that much and I will call you a person who lives below the poverty limit.

[ParanoidPollyanna]

Where there is a WILL there's a WAY, & where there is a NATIONAL CRISIS, America always steps up to the plate, like when FDR faced entering WWII and the URGENT need to produce massive amounts of TANKS, JEEPS, WARPLANES, etc. -- he movilized the Nation.
It was like a domestic "Marshall Plan" but for a WAR. F.D.R. nationalized the Auto Industry, switched from producing Automobiles to producing TANKS, for example. Women went to work in Munitions Plants making Bombs, and the Nation also had WAR BONDS, it was considered, gasp, PATRIOTIC, to CONSERVE GASOLINE and not to take TRIPS in your car, if it wasn't necessary.
Conservation: what a PATRIOTIC phrase during World War II -- ask yourself why in HELL it is not considered patriotic NOW, by the two OIL COMPANY dudes in the White House or their Republican sheep who follow them and say "We Support the Troops" & wave FLAGS?
We could have have a MOBILIZATION up and running very quickly, to produce SOLAR PANELS, and other things we CAN DO, if there is the national WILL to get serious.

[RealHRCFansVoteObama]

On new construction it can be the same as or less than traditional energy - especially in states with incentives and with the tax credits which were just renewed.

And it doesn't have to be an all or nothing deal. Current homeowners can start with one panel or with solar hot water (which is extremely successful and offers some very low-tech low-cost solutions for the enterprising homeowner - see Mother Earth News to build your own) and then expand on a pay-as-you-go system. Most states will pay you for the excess electricity you generate which could go to adding additional panels.

[clarinetmama]

We have a huge garden of open-pollinated vegetables whose seeds we can save from year to year. And a flock of free range chickens. Best eggs you'l ever taste.

I watch what other people put in their grocery carts. Because I know how to cook I only need the bare necessities to put together a meal for my family. As my late grandmother said, "If you can read, you can cook." My grocery bills are a fraction of other people's because I don't buy processed junk food. The farmer's market are a great source of food as well.

Our house consumes a fraction of the power that most do because of Energy Star appliances, CFCs, putting the TVs and computers on switches to stop the phantom loads.

My family is doing more than 99% of the people in the country, yet there are people out there who still bitch that we aren't doing enough. We had 100 inches of snow last year. A Prius isn't going to cut it out here. Talk to the automakers about that, not me.

Nitrogen is the most abundant gas in the atmosphere; growing a cover crop such as alfalfa or buckwheat will "fix" the nitrogen in the soil. I have no need to purchase any nitrogen from a factory. Chicken poop is one of the best sources available.

[KillTheMessenger]

"My family is doing more than 99% of the people in the country, yet there are people out there who still bitch that we aren't doing enough. We had 100 inches of snow last year. A Prius isn't going to cut it out here. Talk to the automakers about that, not me."

And that is exactly the problem we are facing. If you are doing more than 99 percent of all people (and I believe you do) and that is only 10 percent of the solution (and please believe me that that's what it boils down to), then, mathematically speaking, your contribution solves only 0.1 percent of the problem. And we can not move the remaining 99 percent of people out on a farm like you. That's just not in the cards.

None of this is your fault. You can't change the laws of nature any more than anyone else. But people have to learn to understand the rules by which this game is being played. And that's, unfortunately the first and second laws of thermodynamics and they are not our friends.

I even believe that you are growing nitrogen fixing plants like Alfalfa. Sadly, we can't realistically feed mankind with those alone (maybe if we all went Vegan, I would have to check that). We will still need energy to run Haber-Bosch if we want to eat meat. And that is OK. We just have to do it smarter than in the past.

[clarinetmama]

I almost never eat red meat. And it's a shame so many people still do when one considers how much water and power it takes to feed cattle. If I were to eat red meat again it would be a steer that lives on my 40 acres and is grass fed. Not eating corn and feces in a feedlot somehwere in Kansas.
Yes, I grow alfalfa. I have also experimented with perennial clover and buckwheat as cover crops. BTW, although I live in the country we aren't farmers. I am however a certified Master Gardener and know quite a lot about growing my own food. If it were up to me I would buy very little from the grocery store where most produce travels 1,500 miles to get to the consumer. If I could barter my free range eggs for milk or produce I would. The way it is now I know that my tomatoes and peppers aren't going to contain salmonella and my spinach isn't going to be full of e. coli.
We buy Amerian cars. We are conservative drivers and both my husband and I drive a Jeep. We routinely get better mileage than the sticker says because we don't drive over the speed limit and keep the car tuned up. Yes, I'd like a car that gets better mileage...hell, I'd like a car that ran on cat poop...or chicken poop. But, I don't see that happening.

[ArcEnCiel]

Who want a laugh? There you go:
http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00061/Wednesday_-_US_61473_61496a.jpg

[research]

I had to re watch the video,

McCain really did stick his tounge and reach for Obama hips.

THIS IS A REAL PHOTO FROM THE DEBATE!

[Scarllatti]

I like my plumber. He is pretty descent guy. But give me J"oe the Solar panel guy" anytime any day.