Stocks tumble on worries about earnings forecasts

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TIM PARADIS | October 22, 2008 06:35 PM EST | AP

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Trader Robert Duffy works on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange Wednesday, Oct. 22, 2008. (AP Photo/Richard Drew)

NEW YORK — Wall Street tumbled again Wednesday as investors worried that the global economy is poised to weaken even as parts of the credit market slowly show signs of recovery. The major indexes fell more than 4 percent, including the Dow Jones industrial average, which finished off its lows with a loss of 514 points.

The Standard & Poor's 500 index was the worst performer among the major indexes with a 6.1 percent slide that left it at its lowest level since April 2003.

Corporate profit forecasts, a jump in the dollar and falling commodity prices signaled investors are fearful that an economic slowdown will sweep the globe even if lending begins to approach more normal levels as credit markets ease.

The dollar hit multiyear highs against several other major currencies, weighing on commodity prices. That hurt materials and energy companies, while the fall in oil gave a boost to airlines. Technology shares fared better than the broader market following quarterly reports from Apple Inc. and Yahoo Inc.

While reduced strains in global credit markets have eased some investors' nervousness about the economy, market anxiety remains as hundreds of companies this week report third-quarter results and issue somewhat murky forecasts that are stirring unease about the economic bumps that may lay ahead.

Wachovia Corp., which is being bought by Wells Fargo & Co., reported that it swung to a huge loss in the third quarter while the drugmaker Merck & Co. said its quarterly profit fell 28 percent and that it would cut more than 10 percent of its work force.

John Thornton, co-portfolio manager at Stephens Investment Management Group LLC in Houston, said investors' fear has shifted from the immediate concerns about tightness in credit and the resulting difficulty in borrowing to the broader economy as companies come out with their quarterly numbers.

"Even if it weren't for the credit crisis we'd probably be looking toward a pretty tough recession anyway," he said. "The third-quarter earnings are kind of uninspiring but third quarter hasn't been the real concern of people. I think the concern is the depth and duration of the downturn and the effect it's going to have on earnings."

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The Dow fell 514.45, or 5.69 percent, to 8,519.21, after being down as much as 698 points in the final half hour of trading. Still, the Dow finished above its Oct. 10 closing low of 8,451. The Dow fell 232 points Tuesday after jumping 413 points Monday.

Broader stock indicators also fell Wednesday. The S&P 500 lost 58.27, or 6.10 percent, to 896.78, its lowest close since it finished at 892.01 on April 21, 2003. The decline leaves the index 42.7 percent below its record close of 1,565.15 in October last year.

The technology-heavy Nasdaq composite index fell 80.93, or 4.77 percent, to 1,615.75.

Lighter trading volume and the Dow's snapback _ a rebound in the final 20 minutes that left the blue chips 183 points above the session's low _ indicated that the trading was more orderly than it had been two weeks ago when waves of selling pounded the major indexes.

"I'm not as concerned about a pullback in the market when you have light volume," said Dave Hinnenkamp, chief executive KDV Wealth Management in Minneapolis.

Meanwhile, credit markets showed improvement after virtually freezing up in the past month. Bank-to-bank lending rates fell sharply from Tuesday to Wednesday, indicating that credit is becoming easier to obtain. The London Interbank Offered Rate, or Libor, on three-month loans in dollars fell to 3.54 percent from 3.83 percent, dropping for an eighth straight day.

Demand for Treasury bills, regarded as the safest assets around, grew slightly compared to the previous day as economic worries led investors to shun risky assets in favor of government bonds.

The three-month Treasury bill yielded 1.01 percent, down from 1.07 percent late Tuesday. The levels are a notable improvement from the 0.20 percent seen last Wednesday, when investors were willing to trade the slimmest of returns for a safe place to keep their money.

The yield on the benchmark 10-year Treasury note, which also moves opposite its price, fell to 3.60 percent from 3.74 percent late Tuesday.

"We're making slow progress and confidence is returning but we're still not there yet," said Christopher Cordaro, chief investment officer at RegentAtlantic Capital LLC in Chatham, N.J.

He said the latest batch of quarterly results, which cover results through Sept. 30, don't reflect the full brunt of the credit freeze-up felt this month and the nervousness among some consumers following the stock market's swoon.

While he expects corporate results will continue to worsen, he also said the markets remain "in panic mode" and investors are perhaps being overly dour in their assessment of how the economy will perform in the next few years.

"When you look at the fundamentals of equities around the world, stocks are selling for very cheap prices," he said. "Behaviorally people project today's current bad news much further out into the future than they should."

Worries about the global economy helped the dollar. The greenback rose against currencies like the British pound and the euro as investors worried about sluggishness in overseas economies. The strong dollar helped drive down the price of oil, as did a government report that U.S. fuel supplies rose last week. Light, sweet crude fell $5.43 to $66.75 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange, after falling as low as $66.20.

Gold fell sharply as the dollar rose. Gold for December delivery fell $32.80 to settle at $735.20 an ounce on the Nymex, after dipping to a 13-month low of $735.20 during the session. Silver and copper also fell.

While the drop in oil and other commodities can be a welcome sign for consumers and many businesses it can also indicate that investors think economic activity is poised to shrink.

Still, Hinnenkamp said the extra money in drivers' wallets compared with when oil was at its high of $147.27 on July 11 could help prop up the economy. Consumer spending accounts for more than two-thirds of U.S. economic activity.

But materials companies fell as commodity prices tumbled. Aluminum producer Alcoa Inc. fell $1.63, or 13.4 percent, to $10.52, making it the steepest decliner among the 30 stocks that make up the Dow industrials. Miner Freeport-McMoRan Copper & Gold Inc. fell $5.82, or 17.8 percent, to $26.92.

Energy issues fell as oil slid to its lowest level in 16 months. Exxon Mobil Corp. fell $6.93, or 9.7 percent, to $64.57, while Chevron Corp. fell $5.06, or 7.6 percent, to $61.74.

The decline in oil helped airlines. JetBlue Airways Corp. rose 2 cents, or 0.40 percent, to $5.01, and United Airlines parent UAL Corp. rose 85 cents, or 6.2 percent, to $14.65.

In corporate news, AT&T Inc. said its third-quarter earnings rose 5.5 percent but missed analyst expectations in part because of strong sales of Apple's iPhone, which the carrier subsidizes. The stock fell $1.95, or 7.6 percent, to $23.78.

Wachovia fell 38 cents, or 6.2 percent, to $5.71 after reporting its results. Merck slid $1.96, or 6.5 percent, to $28.01.

Some tech names advanced. Apple rose after the company reported a 26 percent increase in its fiscal fourth-quarter earnings. The stock rose $5.38, or 5.9 percent, to $98.87. Yahoo reported a 64 percent drop in third-quarter profits but said it would cut at least 1,500 jobs, cost-cutting that appeared to please investors. The shares rose 32 cents, or 2.7 percent, to $12.39.

Thornton said the latest corporate forecasts are difficult to rely on because companies are grappling with many of the same unknowns that investors are struggling with, primarily the extent of weakness in the economy.

"These markets are making it difficult to gauge how much to read into management comments because clearly they're dealing with unprecedented change in fundamentals. It's hard to take their word on their outlook," he said.

Declining issues outnumbered advancers by about 5 to 1 on the New York Stock Exchange, where consolidated volume came to 6.06 billion shares compared with 5.09 billion traded Tuesday. The levels are lower than earlier in the month when volatility swept volume above the 10 billion mark.

The Russell 2000 index of smaller companies fell 28.68, or 5.40 percent, to 501.97.

Markets overseas fell sharply. Japan's Nikkei stock average fell 6.79 percent. Britain's FTSE 100 fell 4.46 percent, Germany's DAX index fell 4.46 percent, and France's CAC-40 lost 5.10 percent.

___

On the Net:

New York Stock Exchange: http://www.nyse.com

Nasdaq Stock Market: http://www.nasdaq.com

NEW YORK — Wall Street tumbled again Wednesday as investors worried that the global economy is poised to weaken even as parts of the credit market slowly show signs of recovery. The major indexe...
NEW YORK — Wall Street tumbled again Wednesday as investors worried that the global economy is poised to weaken even as parts of the credit market slowly show signs of recovery. The major indexe...
 
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It's like the Titanic sinking! We were all deceived by the financiers, bankers, rating agencies and the administration. I think the rest of the world will strongly ask for a basket of currencies to peg their currency against. The dollar is gradually losing its clout. From Asia to Africa I sensed people totally fed up with the dollar dominating the global finance for too long.

They just want it to be downgraded as a currency printed basically by a bankrupt economy that criminally defended the failed currency till the last moment of the worst presidency in US history. Everybody from Bush to Greenspan to bank and private company CEOs lied to the US and global citizenry.

The costs of war abroad and failed policies dictated by Wall Street brokers and swindlers have backfired instead to firing the booster rockets to lift-off the economy.

The world is now dangerously close to major conflicts for geopolitical gains. From now on its going to be a hard fought war. Many unthinkable scenarios with major losses will happen. Its oing to be war on all fronts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:38 AM on 10/23/2008
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The Titanic analogy is apropos, for most certainly the captains of finance viewed the economy, as they constructed it, to be "unsinkable", but the economy's engineers deceived themselves long before they deceived the rest of us. We, as was the case with the Titanic's passengers, are the victims of the expert's hubris.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:35 PM on 10/23/2008

Eat your foreign car. Tuck-in, don't be shy. Eat your flat-screen and petition WalMart* for sanctuary. America did it to herself.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:22 AM on 10/23/2008
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Cut losses now! Buy gold. It has devalued as well but will hold up much better than the perniciousness of Wall Street or Realty Row.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:02 AM on 10/23/2008

C'mon Wall Street, you bipolar idiots, just this past Monday, you were on a high so it was buy! buy! Then, based on a little trickle of data, yesterday all was doom and gloom again so down we "plummeted". TIP: Keep driving the market down. Then more people will get laid off and they will have to stop spending and that will drive revenues and profits down for real and you will have a self-fulfilling prophecy on your hands.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:48 AM on 10/23/2008
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Every week for more than a year of months, those jackasses at CNBC would tell of how the market has hit bottom and how it's a buyer's market, but real estate and stocks continued to slide. They sucked in enough people, only to stave off, for awhile, the collapse to which we're now bearing witness.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:06 AM on 10/23/2008

Larry "the Count" Kudlow.
Any entity (besides the crap peddled by CNBC) which advertises during Golf tournaments make for lousy investments.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:30 AM on 10/23/2008
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Time to berate the raters again. Responsibility failure, passing the buck down not up the management chain. Implications that the SEC too has failed in its oversight.

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2008/10/23/17359/rating-cows/

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:32 AM on 10/23/2008

my broker just advised me to eat my 45% losses in my stocks & 401k & move it over to guaranteed 1%. no,1% isn't much of a return but it beats loosing another 40%. this resession or depression is going to be long & deep. this is only the begining of the beging of what is to come.

i moved everything over to guaranteed & will be starting over saving for my retirement in two years.
correction,retirement in 12 years. i'm 62 years old & now must work till i'm 75 or till i die if i stay heathy enough.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:55 AM on 10/23/2008

Anyone as close to retirement as you are should not have had so much invested in stocks.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:58 AM on 10/23/2008

At this rate we're all close to retirement. Stick a fork in the country, we're done.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:34 AM on 10/23/2008

Why the economy fares better under Democrats:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1021/p09s01-coop.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:00 AM on 10/23/2008
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Things are going to get interesting ... a small billion dollar hedge fund based in Larkspur CA recently turned turtle ... that means it left numerous counter parties holding the bag that will start trembling too. From small hedge fund to medium hedge fund to large hedge fund to huge hedge fund the dominoes will fall. The Banks will feel the next wave of the financial tsunami when the holders of the liar loans that are starting to reset start defaulting, sending another shock into the credit markets. Then the beginning of next year the wholesale layoffs will begin as companies who invested all their liquid assets in the collapsing markets try to stay afloat. Then the unemployed will starting defaulting on their unsecured credit card debt, which will then cause the CDOs associated with them to collapse like the mortgage backed securities did. All the while the Fed will be printing money ... pushing Treasury Bonds to the point of being downgraded ... which will, in turn, murder the economies of our foreign investors who are stuck with hoards of US Junk Bonds with Uncle Sam's face on it. and so on and so forth for the next decade or so,

Of course, I could be wrong.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:16 AM on 10/23/2008


well you know guys and gals, I am very concern too. 'am 26, and already my future is leveraged to the hilt. Maybe AIG will disappear from US landscape, I may not have a job tomorrow. A gallon of milk is worth more than my AIG stocks, and all that 401K I had invested for 8 years will be gone by this time tomorrow.

Neither Obama nor McCain can help me.

But looking back for the last 12 years in succession, USA's economy is over 13 trillion/per year. So no matter how bad it looks - bail outs 700B + x more billions, credit and back infusions, bail outs for sub primes that Paulson infusing, it's nothing compared to 13 trillion. I take refuge in that.

It's gonna be a long long time, but I believe in all honesty, we will survive.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:57 AM on 10/23/2008

You had a 401k since you are 18???

Wow. What kind of job do you do? 401k right out of school without any college education and not even training?

Cool.

:-)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:47 AM on 10/23/2008

And I used to think that the Cyclone at Coney Island made me nauseous.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:49 PM on 10/22/2008

So much fun after 3 pm in the market ...

Somebody ought to report the PPT to the SPCA. Those repeated dead cat bounces are just cruel.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:46 PM on 10/22/2008
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RELAX EVERYTHING IS BEING TAKEN CARE OF !!!!!!!!!!

http://www.group30.org/

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:43 PM on 10/22/2008

Years ago I predicted that the Dow would return to 4000 and people always considered me loco or otherwise unwound. Now as this calumny is unfolding before our eyes and Americans are losing their fortunes and futures, I wish I had never made such an ominous forecast for it being a self fulling prophecy.
How will we respond by going from the most affluent to the most penurious citizentry on the face of the earth? Will we become undone and find scapegoats to take out our anger and fear? Will we follow the first charlatan that comes by who leads us into war, rapine and slavery? Or will we face our problems with a minimum of words and a maximum of action for rebuilding our conffidences, self esteem and wealth.
This catastrophe will measure our character and courage as a citizentry and will predict the direction of our democracy and Constitutional form of government. In this regard our generation of Americans faces a "rendezvous with destiny."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:28 PM on 10/22/2008

It's the derivatives and the alphabet soup of fancy financial "products" pushed by Greenspan. The stock market is irrelevant to the underlying collapse of the system. For years, liquidity and cash have been pumped into the financial sector. What we are witnessing is the collapse of the these "casino bets" outlawed in many states as early 1904. The de-levering of these junk bonds will cause a systemic collapse worldwide. Michael Milken showed us the way. Leveraged acquisitions, mergers, divestitures, and looting of assets with hedge funds and short selling. Everything was based on debt, including the Federal Reserve system of fractional reserving.

We are in a period that is worse than 1931 because the leveraging was not so bad then. The house of cards will come down, even according to the e-mails subpoenaed by Congress - these guys knew that they needed to make money up front and hide their ill-gotten wealth before the crash of the system - not just the market. The insurance companies will be the next to fall. They are holding worthless derivatives

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:27 PM on 10/22/2008

ok i guess some of you "no offence" are brain dead sheep

THE GAME HAS CHANGED

we are about to enter a new phase in "plebland"

One world goverment is coming

not GOVERMENT as in who we vote for but as in WHO RUNS THE PLANTET / MONEY

dont any of you read??? MR ORWELL please god sake people its a game that the people at the top and im not talking forbes or fortune 500 here///

THIS IS GOING TO GET ALOT MORE INTERESTING...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:39 PM on 10/22/2008

this is not about "repubs" or "dems"

get ur head out the sand its about US the workers

work = slave

sooner u FACE THE FACTS the better oh wait you dont mind buying things from china were the avrage worker earns hmmmmmmmm like 1 doller a month or something stupid??

This is NOT ABOUT YOU OR ME its about THEM get it? good now run along eat ur burger and watch NFL.. or whatever mindless stuff you do

THATS THE WAY THEY LIKE IT.... 700bil 56 trill "its allllll numbers"

you work for a reason and thats to make someone RICH...

wake the F**k up!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:19 PM on 10/22/2008
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