Franken, Dems, Have Recount History On Their Side

The Minnesota Senate race remains undecided, separated by a margin of less than 500 votes. But despite the narrowness of the contest -- and the fact that recounts are required by state law for races where the margin is less that one half of one percent -- Norm Coleman has declared victory. Moreover, he has cast doubt on the expedience of a recount.

"I recognize that because of my margin of victory, Mr. Franken has the right to pursue an official review of the election results," the Republican Senator said during his speech Tuesday evening. "It is up to him whether such a step is worth the tax dollars it will take to conduct."

If I were trailing, "I would step back," he added. "I just think the need for a healing process is so important [and] the possibility that any change magnitude is so remote."

Democrats, naturally, are fuming. Arguing that any re-examination of the exact vote would chip into Coleman's current 462-vote lead, they also point to history as an ally.

Just two years ago, the initial tally in the St. Louis County Attorney's race was reversed after a recount. Allen Mitchell, the incumbent, held a 53-vote lead after approximately 80,000 cast - a percentage of victory margin larger than what Coleman holds over Franken. An automatic recount, however, ended up flipping the results, giving the contest to Mitchell's challenger, Melanie Ford by 88 votes.

Franken is hoping for a similar fate. The Democratic challenger has instructed the state that he wants a recount, citing voting problems in favorable counties.

"We won't know for a little while who won the race, but at the end of the day we will know the voice of the electorate is clearly heard," Franken said. "This has been a long campaign, but it is going to be a little longer before we have a winner."

The end result is that Minnesota and Congress likely won't know the result of the election for several weeks. Secretary of State Mark Ritchie, a Democrat, put the date of finalizing a number as sometime in December.

Comments

[Bystander]

06:42 PM on 12/05/2008

This is a positive milestone in the continuing saga.

[ThinkForYourself2]

05:33 PM on 11/07/2008

What are the statistical odds that this race can be so close considering that a well-liked celebrity is running against an scandal-ridden, unpopular, Republican politician with exit polls showing a 12 point lead for Al Franken? 1 in a bazillion is what it is. Do not concede Mr. Franken. You have the attention of America so now expose the fraud.

Click Link
See Video
Understand the truth about rampant electronic voting machine fraud in America

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzBI33kOiKc

[violimo]

01:53 PM on 11/07/2008

What smells is when someone is covering up for something, they don't want you to take a close look at it. If Coleman is involved in something fishy with the voting sytem, he doesn't want anyone to go over the voting again. Al, how were you with the military folk?

[fylbert]

11:09 PM on 11/06/2008

With the lead now down to 236, will Coleman 'step aside' if he ends up being behind if the final absentee ballots or whatever flip the results to Franken?

[truth seeker]

09:17 PM on 11/06/2008

Margin is now just 236 votes ...

http://electionresults.sos.state.mn.us/20081104/ElecRslts.asp?M=S&R=all&P=A&Races=%27%27

[jugganaut]

08:09 PM on 11/06/2008

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a recount automatically triggered under Minnesota state law when the result is that close?

So Franken doesn't really have anything to do with whether a recount occurs in this case. It would occur whether he wanted it or not.

[fylbert]

12:08 AM on 11/07/2008

The State law triggers a recount if the vote differential is less than 1/2 of one percent, now the differential is less than 1/100th of one percent, or 1/50th of the auto-trigger size.

[jackstpaul]

02:09 AM on 11/07/2008

I read that a runner-up can concede and hence call off the recount. I assume it applies to any runner-up within the .5% margin. Franken, of course will not do this, but it's what Coleman is calling for.

[bluestateitch]

07:16 PM on 11/06/2008

Dont concede. Have they counted the absentee ballots how about the military vote.

[TheSinker]

10:44 PM on 11/06/2008

Absentee ballots and 'military vote' (former includes the latter) are counted at the local precinct and tabulated with all the other votes.

[LiberalDemIda]

06:38 PM on 11/06/2008

You stand firm, Al! Don't you dare concede! Let the people speak and don't let that arrogant Coleman dictate just how they should.

We're with you, Al.

[riversideliberal]

05:58 PM on 11/06/2008

The voters have a right to be sure their votes were counted, accurately and thoroughly. It's not up to Coleman or Franken to decide, but the law and the voters and the fundamental principles of democracy.

I hope Al Franken is declared the winner, but more importantly, I hope that whoever actually received the most votes is declared the winner. When democracy wins, we all win, even if we don't like a particular result.

A legitimate recount in such a close race is not a theft of democracy or a waste of money.

[obidennvr]

11:46 PM on 11/06/2008

If they weren't right to begin with, what makes you think they will be accurate now?

[jlbrown23]

01:42 PM on 11/07/2008

Because the count will be done more carefully. Election night counts are done quickly which means there are more errors, but typically the margin of victory is large enough that these errors don't affect the overall outcome. These errors consider the effect of the speed of the count on accuracy, and can actually be predicted statistically. This is why the state sets a number for automatically triggering a recount. This number coincides with a given likelihood that inaccuracy of the fast count is meaningful vs the margin of victory.

When the margin is small, a more slow deliberate count is done (maybe by counting votes several times and making sure the numbers are the same, maybe with the oversight of representatives from both parties - I don't know the exact details), which is why it is taking so much longer than the original count (a month vs a few hours). It takes a lot longer, but when you are done the counted totals are a lot closer to the actual votes cast.

[AZWolfster]

05:03 PM on 11/06/2008

Coleman is right. They should not recount so the healing can begin and public money will be saved - voting laws be damned. Even better, we should not have elections at all, so no public money is spent and there is nothing to heal from. What kind of country do we think this is, anyway? Some kind of democracy?

[soupson52]

03:24 PM on 11/07/2008

giggle. Thanks for the smile.

[crice]

04:49 PM on 11/06/2008

If I were trailing, "I would step back," he added. "I just think the need for a healing process is so important [and] the possibility that any change magnitude is so remote."

This is the biggest lie I've heard from republicans...this hour. Everyone knows that if this guy were trailing, he'd do whatever it took to win this election. This hypocrisy from the republicans makes me want to vomit.

[wrylass]

05:27 PM on 11/06/2008

I believe the record shows that when trailing, Republicans take it to the Supreme Court and ask for a "special" decision.

[IhaveaDREAMwhitegirl]

11:40 AM on 11/07/2008

"Cause gosh Darnit they're "special"". ---Stewart Smalley, snl!

[jackdonkey]

06:35 PM on 11/06/2008

The video of Coleman saying that on the news last night was hilarious.

[lizfrombend]

04:39 PM on 11/06/2008

As an out-of-state contributor to Franken's campaign I'd sure like to see a recount!!

[ProgressiveChick]

06:28 PM on 11/06/2008

As an in state contributor to Franken's campaign, I second that!

[BassMent]

04:00 PM on 11/06/2008

'My fellow Americans, we MUST have a decision TODAY! The security of our DEMOCRACY depends on us acting IMMEDIATELY and DECISIVELY, without further distractions like counting of votes or examining of evidence or intelligence or, God forbid, considering the will of the people! If we don't decide THIS VERY MINUTE, we could have a... a... CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS!!!!!!"

This message brought to you by the GOP! Makers of....

Stolen election 2000!
The Iraq invasion and occupation!
"Mission Accomplished!"
Guantanamo Bay!
The Patriot Act!
The Wall Street Bailout!

Etc, etc, etc, etc....

[obidennvr]

11:48 PM on 11/06/2008

All done with complicity of Democrats. Another depression my a$$.

[soupson52]

03:26 PM on 11/07/2008

Hmmm...different this year. How cool!

[haveyougonemad]

12:36 PM on 11/07/2008

And let's not forget "stolen election 2004" !

[doublels]

03:47 PM on 11/06/2008

GO AL!!! You should definitly go for the recount...and hey...it's a law. And Coleman saying "HE would back off if he was in your position"....maybe he's trying to be a comedian like you were. How absurd!! If it was my tax money, I'd say go ahead & spend it....it's well worth it.

[thisoldbroad]

03:39 PM on 11/06/2008

Perhaps Mr Coleman should learn from Dino Rossi's mistake in 2004.

Dino Rossi won the 1st count by a similar margin during the Washington State Governors race against Christine Gregoire that year - resulting in an automatic recount. Mr Rossi didn't wait for the recount to claim victory, he jumped right in slamming Gregoire for not conceeding the race until the recount was completed & carried on with his nasty campaign smears of her character.

A partial recount was done & showed him with a very slight lead. His snarking continued.

When a complete recount had been done.. he lost! He carried on for MONTHS after she had taken office as the gracious winner, embarrassing himself & the GOP.

He finally shut up & went away. For 4 years.

This year he made another run for Governor - with a 'kinder, gentler me' tactic. Funny how everyone I talked to about him only remembered the 'snarky a** me' that he couldn't hide 4 years ago. He lost again - by a large margin.

Norm Coleman should hold his tongue until the recount is complete. His future career depends on it.

[BTJ46]

03:45 PM on 11/06/2008

If it would end his political career, I am willing to hear Norm's snark for another month or so.