Calif. high court asked to hear gay marriage cases

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LISA LEFF | November 17, 2008 09:01 PM EST | AP

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SAN FRANCISCO — The state attorney general and sponsors of the ballot initiative that banned same-sex marriage in California urged its Supreme Court to hear a series of lawsuits seeking to overturn the ban, saying the matter is too urgent to be unsettled.

"The petitions raise issues of statewide importance, implicating not only California's marriage laws but also the initiative process and the Constitution itself," Attorney General Jerry Brown argued in his filing.

"This court can provide certainty and finality in this matter," he said.

Proposition 8, which passed with 52 percent of the vote earlier this month, overturned the high court's May decision legalizing gay marriage in California. The measure inserts language into the constitution limiting marriage to one man and one woman.

Gay and civil rights groups, the city of San Francisco and other plaintiffs have asked the court to void the measure on the grounds that voters did not have the authority to make, what they say, is a fundamental constitutional change.

There is no deadline for the justices to decide whether they'll take the cases.

The litigation has made unwitting allies of supporters of the same-sex marriage ban and the attorney general, who voted against the proposition. Over the summer, anti-gay marriage groups sued Brown after his office changed the measure's wording to reflect that it would take away a right that same-sex couples then had.

Brown has since said that in his role as California's top public lawyer, he will fight to uphold Proposition 8 as an expression of public sentiment on same-sex marriage. The preliminary documents he filed Monday did not address that issue.

Andrew Pugno, a lawyer for the Yes on 8 campaign, said the measure's supporters are so confident the Supreme Court would uphold the initiative they want the court to take the cases and resolve the question quickly.

"There is no question Proposition 8 is exactly the type of amendment the framers of the Constitution envisioned for the people to be able to enact," Pugno said.

The Protect Marriage coalition is less confident about Brown's sincere interest in defending the gay marriage ban in court, according to Pugno. That's why the coalition asked the court for permission to intervene in the cases Monday.

"Everyone knows the AG opposed Proposition 8, did everything he could to undermine it and it still passed anyway," he said. "There is little hope he would make much effort at all to defend Prop. 8."

Both the attorney general and Protect Marriage asked the court to reject a request from gay marriage supporters for a stay that would allow same-sex couples to resume marrying in California until the broader legal issues are addressed.

Meanwhile, the interfaith California Council of Churches and the Episcopal bishops of Northern California and Los Angeles added their petition Monday to those asking the high court to invalidate Proposition 8. They argue that if voters are permitted to take away rights from a group based on sexual orientation, the same could happen to religious minorities.

SAN FRANCISCO — The state attorney general and sponsors of the ballot initiative that banned same-sex marriage in California urged its Supreme Court to hear a series of lawsuits seeking to overt...
SAN FRANCISCO — The state attorney general and sponsors of the ballot initiative that banned same-sex marriage in California urged its Supreme Court to hear a series of lawsuits seeking to overt...
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At this point, I really hope this goes to the SCOTUS. I know that's something gay marriage advocates don't want, which is precisely why it needs to go. Let THEM tell you all gay marriage isn't a right, it's not based on anything in the Constitution, it's not comparable to Loving or the civil rights movement, and that having male/female parameters on marriage don't violate Due Process, Equal Protection, or the 14A.

It seems like that's the only way this mess will end.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:04 AM on 11/21/2008
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Don't be so sure the Supreme Court won't decide in favor of same sex marriage. In 2004 the Justices did refuse to hear challenges to the Massachusetts Goodridge decision, effectively letting gay marriage become law in Massachusetts. And the year before was the Lawrence decision that struck down all the sodomy statutes in the US, freeing gays and lesbians from the status of criminals in the states that still kept those archaic and discriminatory statutes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:21 AM on 12/14/2008
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It's only a matter of time before ALL the states approve gay marriage. The ball is rolling in that direction and gaining momentum so you might as well get used to it. 100 years from now, historians will look back to this time and wonder what all the fuss was about.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:34 PM on 11/20/2008
- abbeyroad I'm a Fan of abbeyroad 40 fans permalink
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and one more damn thing:

my ignorant mormon family thinks that children are better off being raised by a heterosexual couple (which is absurd).

as a gay woman, i take great offense to that way of thinking.

in their minds i'm not good enough to raise children with my wife, but i'm sure seem to always be good enough to babysit my neices, nephews and cousins when everyone wants to take off for the day.

PS: the kids in my family love me more than ANY of them. i'm the one they ALWAYS run to.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:56 PM on 11/18/2008
- abbeyroad I'm a Fan of abbeyroad 40 fans permalink
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PEGGYLEG:

the mormons are COMPLETELY RESPONSIBLE for prop. 8.
i point the finger at them, and i will never stop pointing the finger at them.

the LDS devils have been online in full-force this week trying to turn the blame away from themselves, but it will not work.

do you know that utah has the HIGHEST teenage suicide rate in the united states ? GUESS WHY.
gay teenagers who mormons won't allow to be themselves -- who keep getting shoved back deep into the closet. who are told they're sinners/

have you ever heard of a mormon-run gay rehab place called EVERGREEN ?
look it up. you'll learn about young gay mormon kids being shown gay porn while the people who run evergreen send ELECTRIC SHOCKS TO THEIR GENITALS.

i have many mormons in my family -- i know everything about that group, and it's VERY UGLY STUFF.
i've always rejected the mormons, and i am very ashamed of my family.

you need to start thinking outside of the box. do some REAL research on the LDS -- learn about that organization from historians, not from your church. they have a lot of ugly things to hide.

you belong to a bigoted, racist organization, and they are squarely to blame for prop. 8

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:46 PM on 11/18/2008
- mercury613 I'm a Fan of mercury613 47 fans permalink
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OK. I'm guilty. I admit it. I've been had by a troll. Seems they are now claiming to be "sympathetic" and that they voted against prop 8, while characterizing our protests as hateful. They even go so far as to say that our protests have "pushed them over to the other side".

Yeah, right. All my heterosexual friends are horrified by the passage of prop 8 and are supportive of the protests that have happened.

If you really were sympathetic and have been pushed to the other side by our protests, then you're dumber than the Clinton supporters who pledged their votes to McCain after Hillary lost the primary.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:52 PM on 11/18/2008

It seems this forum is full of trolls. (don't know what that means? Google it) The best way to discourage them is to quit responding to them. Also, you can click on someone's name and read their comment stream to see if they are engaging in legit discussion, or just trying to get everyone angry and worked up.

I would not point any fingers (it only encourages them) but just ignore them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:27 PM on 11/18/2008
- luvobama I'm a Fan of luvobama 319 fans permalink

I'm ashamed to say i had a good time with that peggyleg this morning. A real nutcase.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:49 PM on 11/18/2008
- MrsPeel I'm a Fan of MrsPeel 56 fans permalink
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Hey, luv,

You know I support you, but re: peggyleg, between you and me, that makes only one person who has a good time with peggyleg. She's a real scourge.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:32 PM on 11/19/2008
- mercury613 I'm a Fan of mercury613 47 fans permalink
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Yeah, like SoCalGuy_93065

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:59 PM on 11/18/2008

The fact that you can't hold your own in an intelligent and rational discussion of this issue is NOT my problem.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:49 AM on 11/19/2008
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But it's so rewarding to politely put them in their place with logic and reason.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:24 AM on 12/14/2008
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Peggyleg~
Just so you have more info.......I did not choose to be a lesbian. I tried for many years to fit it with the rest of society. I've been called names, suffered accusations at work, & was terrified my parents would disown me because my cousin was disowned by her father because she was gay. She suffered a worse fate than I did. After years of taunting, name calling, harassment by the police, she took her own life. Many teenagers are doing the same, because they see no hope for their future. They see the mormon church members raising millions of dollars to deny them happiness with some civil rights. What harm does it do to hetrosexual marriage to share the joy with others? If I could marry my partner, would it change your marriage in any way? You said you had never met any gays. Well now you have, even if it's just cyberspace. I have friends in Texas, you probably pass one on the street every now & then. Thanks for listening, some of us are still very hurt so try not to take it personal.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:56 PM on 11/18/2008
- peggyleg I'm a Fan of peggyleg 22 fans permalink

I am sorry for your suffering...I truley am, and I am vefry sorry that a young person took their life due to anything to do with their sexual orientation....

smithshawo8...just because I don't know any gay people does not mean I have no feelings towards them as human beings....I am a naturally compassionate person and make friends easily...I could never sit around and watch anyone that I care about go through what you must have had to witness. Please, just because you cannot marry your partner right now, things may change.

Also, please, do not blame the Mormon church solely for this thing in California, according to the exit polls, a large majority of the folks that voted against gay marriage were blacks and hispanics, two groups that have been minorities themselves....sometimes, we know not what we do...

Just out of curiosity, how did you know you were gay and when did you know it? I am interested because this was something I never had to question, me being heterosexual...I really am interested in learning...:)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:17 PM on 11/18/2008
- luvobama I'm a Fan of luvobama 319 fans permalink

I just threw up. You are a nutcase.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:27 PM on 11/18/2008
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Don't believe all the exit polls. I place most of the blame on the mormon church elders because I have seen the evidence of the campaign they waged against us. I come from a catholic background, my partner comes from a mormon background. We know much about the mormon elders obsession & fear of gay marriage. They have stated that "religion, not race breeds homophobia". The white population far out numbers anyone else in California, it was the white vote that carried Prop 8 in my opinion. And since you & I have had a conversation without mudflinging.........I will answer your curiosity question. I tried to be straight until I was in my 20's, I was not abused, I had the typical parents. When I look back on my life, I believe I was born this way. I just want you to see the human side of this.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:55 PM on 11/18/2008
- MrsPeel I'm a Fan of MrsPeel 56 fans permalink
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Start with www.pflag.com and branch out from there -- inasmuch as your "really don't watch much t.v." Please quit playing your disingenuous games here.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:58 PM on 11/18/2008
- MamaBird62 I'm a Fan of MamaBird62 94 fans permalink

Anti-miscegnation laws were ruled unconstitutional because they violated the 14th amendment and its equal protection and due process clauses. Nothing to do with creating children, as a few try to argue here.
The woman at the center of that landmark civil rights case (Loving v. Virginia), Mildred Loving, is a strong supporter of gay marriage. In that case, the court concluded that racism and the desire for white supremacy were at the heart of anti-miscegenation laws. Those laws of course were approved by a majority of Virginians in 1967, and would not have been overturned by popular vote. Similarly, if courts should find that religious intolerance and anti-gay bigotry are at the heart of laws forbidding same sex marriage, such as Prop. 8, then those laws also won't stand.
Mildred Loving believes sexual orientation, like race, should not be a barrier to marriage. As she says, "that's what loving, and Loving, is about."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:31 PM on 11/18/2008
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I hope the California Supreme Court has not been politicized and "seeded" (i.e., corrupted) in the same way that our federal Supreme Court has been politicized and corrupted and seeded with far-right Christian ideologues.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:13 PM on 11/18/2008

I have to leave now, but thanks to everyone who participated in this discussion. Remember, even though we disagree, we will all be better served if we avoid the insults.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:04 PM on 11/18/2008
- luvobama I'm a Fan of luvobama 319 fans permalink

Remember your opinion means nothing to anyone but you. MYOB and get a grip on your life. You sound tortured.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:08 PM on 11/18/2008
- fredamae I'm a Fan of fredamae 53 fans permalink

Please, tell me how Your life has been negatively impacted and Why you care?

Tradition is Not an argument, it is an excuse.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:10 PM on 11/18/2008
- Scott3843 I'm a Fan of Scott3843 9 fans permalink

Excellent, fredamae.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:42 AM on 11/19/2008
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How are we better served if anonymous bloggers don't insult us?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:34 PM on 11/18/2008
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Peggyleg~
I understand your concerns. What you've been exposed to over the years may be the gay parade with drag queens & butch women. This is not the ONLY representation of the gay community. Many of us just blend in with the rest of society. I go to work every day, mow my lawn, volunteer with the city, donate to the humane society, pay my taxes & wave to my neighbors. But because I don't have the option for marriage with my partner, she could not receive my social security benefits if I die, she could not make medical decisions for me unless we file extra paperwork. I would have to battle her relatives in court to keep her business open, simply because marriage is denied to us. All the privileges granted to everyone else, that's what I want. Because so many are freaked out about gays being around children, I can't even let my neighbor kids in the house to play with the dogs for fear of some homophobic thinking that I have other things in mind. Those who believe that homosexuals are attracted to children need to up their medication. Clearly your thought process is askew. I am not trying to REDIFINE marriage, I want protection for my partner, our assets, our medical, etc. Feel free to ask questions, I want you to see all sides of the coin.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:58 PM on 11/18/2008
- peggyleg I'm a Fan of peggyleg 22 fans permalink

What is a civil union, then? I thought that civil unions were for gay couples...please explain..:)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:03 PM on 11/18/2008
- HaloGuy I'm a Fan of HaloGuy 13 fans permalink
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peggyleg - your other comments reveal you for the monster that you are. what is your true intention?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:13 PM on 11/18/2008
- gaydm I'm a Fan of gaydm 8 fans permalink
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A civil union is an inferior form of legal union for unmarried couples to use in place of full marriage. Civil unions, may be entered into by both gay and straight partners. Civil unions have most but not all legal rights granted to full marriages. For instance civil unions are not recognized world wide, or even in all states equally as full marriages are. You may enter into a civil union in one state, but if you move you may have to redo the whole thing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:21 PM on 11/18/2008
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Many states have banned even civil unions. This has been used as a wedge issue to get people to the polls. A civil union was approved in some states & it granted some rights to couples. But it falls short of a marriage, joint tax filing, federal issues such as the social security death benefits. Plus a civil union does not transfer from state to state, whereas a marriage license does. So my straight friends who were married in California are still married if they move to Colorado. Not true for gay couples, even though it was legal for a time in California. To me it really is about my civil rights. Does this help?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:21 PM on 11/18/2008

Having civil unions is a compromise that gays have made in order to not change the definition of marriage. "Civil union" is a euphemism for gay marriage that was created to placate heterosexuals who could not share the term marriage with gay people.

In some places civil unions are for everyone gay and straight (not anywhere in the US). This is perfectly acceptable, as it creates a situation of equality for everyone.

In the US, civil unions do not entail the same amount of rights and benefits as marriage. This is unacceptable, as it creates a situation of inequality for one group of people. LGBT people would still be happy to have a civil union because it is better than no protection at all.

Please keep in mind, when we talk about these relationships, we are talking about the most important relationships in our lives. We don't take these things lightly.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:22 PM on 11/18/2008
- MrsPeel I'm a Fan of MrsPeel 56 fans permalink
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What do you think it is when two straights go to a justice of the peace?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:03 PM on 11/18/2008
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"What you've been exposed to over the years may be the gay parade with drag queens & butch women. This is not the ONLY representation of the gay community."

They can watch Ellen, Will & Grace, The L Word, etc even in TX. She has no excuse for thinking gays are "the other". Portraying "drag queens & butch women" as the "other" isn't helpful.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:54 PM on 11/18/2008
- luvobama I'm a Fan of luvobama 319 fans permalink

John, read all of her posts. She's a fraud. She pretends to want a better understanding of gays, when what she really wants is attention. I believe her IQ to be in the double digits.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:18 PM on 11/18/2008
- peggyleg I'm a Fan of peggyleg 22 fans permalink

I really don't watch t.v....sorry..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:19 PM on 11/18/2008
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You overshot the point, drag queens & butch women are what many straight people think is the average gay. I'm often offended by the way the writers of the L word take their story line. They had a chance to really make a difference, but the show has turned into breakups & who is cheating on who. What kind of message does that send to the straight world? And we want them to think we have committed relationships while they watch L word?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:23 PM on 11/18/2008
- fredamae I'm a Fan of fredamae 53 fans permalink

My question to the opposition is: Why do you "wonder"? Why do you care? What difference could it possibly make in how You choose to live your life?

Don't you realize that if Someone's feathers were not ruffled and Media never got ahold of this issue, never ruffled a Whole lot of feathers, that there would Be No Discussion on this matter? There must have been a point in your life when you were Not even aware of this being an issue....

Do you follow any marriage between a man and a woman, to be sure They strictly adhere to the "rules of Marriage" as You perceive it? Why Not? Lots of Sin to monitor there. Rape, Adultery, Incest and yes, even Same Sex encounters/relationships.

Why does any of this matter?
I could only imagine that if those who marry as a gay couple could cause your car to get fewer miles to the gallon, or if it created a blackout every day at 6pm, or if it caused the paint to peel away from your home..or, or, or...then perhaps you would have a cause to argue against...But Nothing happens.
no floods, no nothing.

Your arguments against the rights of others simply shows Your prejudice and Your fear and Your Bias.

Please, this is so silly in a most tragic manner.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:46 PM on 11/18/2008

The reason this wasn't an issue before is because people were not trying to redefine marriage before. To many people, marriage is a sacred tradition that is the foundation of family and ultimately defines how our children are raised.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:56 PM on 11/18/2008
- Curt I'm a Fan of Curt 65 fans permalink
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People have been redefining marriage throughout history.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:59 PM on 11/18/2008
- fredamae I'm a Fan of fredamae 53 fans permalink

Why do you care? You life Your life/marriage/relationships based on Your definition...Leave others to do the same!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:01 PM on 11/18/2008
- MrsPeel I'm a Fan of MrsPeel 56 fans permalink
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Re-define marriage exactly how? From a legal standpoint? From a religious standpoint? Sociologically?

"To many people, marriage is a sacred tradition that is the foundation of family and ultimately defines how our children are raised." GUESS WHAT, that's what a lot of gays and their supporters believe. Who are YOU to be right, and the rest of us to be wrong?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:46 PM on 11/18/2008
- peggyleg I'm a Fan of peggyleg 22 fans permalink

It would help ALL people to know the facts to try and understand....I admit I know no one that is gay, so how am I suppose to think? A few gays on this site have been very helpful, while other straights have been downright rude to me.....NOT EVERYONE knows gay people.....despite popular belief...

I live in Texas, not San Francisco.....so there are not too many "out" gays here...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:21 PM on 11/18/2008
- fredamae I'm a Fan of fredamae 53 fans permalink

OK, I suggest that you have, indeed, met folks that are gay. I don't think Texas is "lol" in the "gay free zone"...
You never knew, because they are just People, People, like you and me and are either good hearted or not.

Sexual orientation, race, religion, birthplace, location, favorite colors, vegetarian or meat eater..Etc's to the N'th degree......None of that makes one Iota of difference.
See, it really is that simple.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:34 PM on 11/18/2008
- luvobama I'm a Fan of luvobama 319 fans permalink

Your living in Texas says it all. Who else came out of Texas? Let me think...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:36 PM on 11/18/2008

Peggy -

I understand where you are coming from. I was born and raised in Texas and still live here. You are right that there is not a lot of gay visibility in this state. However, there are a lot of gay people here, and most of them just live quiet, normal, "traditional" lives. I also lived in Los Angeles for a long time, and gay community there - which is very visible through the media - is different than other gay communities. In fact, just like in the straight community, everywhere you go the gay community will be different. I'm sorry that people are being mean to you, and I hope that you truly are trying to understand.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:44 PM on 11/18/2008
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There's this thing called the google. Try it.
Or, you could just try imagining yourself as gay. How do you think you'd feel if some person wants to deny you the rights that other citizens enjoy? How hard is that? Why do you need to know any gays to understand that? It's called minding your own business. Somebody else's marriage does NOT affect you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:48 PM on 11/18/2008
- luvobama I'm a Fan of luvobama 319 fans permalink

How is it that my husband, myself and our 4 children have no problem with gays having the same rights as straights?
Could it be that they have been raised in a loving, tolerant home?
Could it be that they are educated? Could it be they are not fearful? Could it be that they have been taught to love and take care of their fellow man? Could it be that they have been taught to be nice?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:43 PM on 11/18/2008

Could it be that you don't understand that the very nature of what you have, a loving family construct best suited for raising children, is threatened by marriage being redefined beyond its biological basis? Could it be that you are actually the closed minded one for assuming anyone who disagrees with you on this issue is uneducated, or does not love his or her fellow man?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:47 PM on 11/18/2008
- Minako I'm a Fan of Minako 44 fans permalink
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Your biology argument has already been refuted. Unless you can back it up with concrete historical evidence then I would find another line of attack.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:48 PM on 11/18/2008
- luvobama I'm a Fan of luvobama 319 fans permalink

The only thing that threatens my marriage and family is how my husband and I behave towards each other.

That and the gosh darn check book.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:56 PM on 11/18/2008
- fredamae I'm a Fan of fredamae 53 fans permalink

Could it Be that you are simply "voicing" your opinion based upon prejudice? Who are You to "define" any relationship? What God-given authority do you have to dictate how any one of the rest of us should live?

If you don't want to be involved in a Same sex relationship, then Don't...But leave the rest of us alone to define our own sense of happiness. At least You and I have a choice! They don't because of discrimination and prejudice!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:59 PM on 11/18/2008
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Sounds implausible.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:05 PM on 11/18/2008
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Sounds plausible.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:04 PM on 11/18/2008
- MechaMike I'm a Fan of MechaMike 2 fans permalink

This is a rights issue.

Some of you are acting like you are ok with Civil Unions yet the Christian Right spearheaded ballots that banned Civil Unions in 19 states.

There are several states where gays cannot marry, enter into civil unions or domestic partnerships, and cannot adopt children or foster care. In many states they are not protected from workplace discrimination or protected by hate crime laws.

Besides the CA Supreme Court has already ruled that gay marriage is a civil right and a constitutional right. Marriage was also deemed a civil right during the African American Civil Rights Movement.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:30 PM on 11/18/2008
- peggyleg I'm a Fan of peggyleg 22 fans permalink

Why are the gays all the sudden in favor of such a traditional institution as marriage? I mean, let's be real, most gays are very untraditional, very in-your-face, very open, flamboyant, ...nothing wrong with being gay, but the tradition of marriage and gay don't go together...why the big push all of the sudden, to be traditional?

Just wondering....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:19 PM on 11/18/2008
- luvobama I'm a Fan of luvobama 319 fans permalink

You must have had terrible parents. i am so sorry for whatever demos you are suffering with. You sound miserable. it's sad.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:23 PM on 11/18/2008
- peggyleg I'm a Fan of peggyleg 22 fans permalink

What? I had several gay people already agree with what I have said...no offense to ANYONE, and this certainly has NOTHING to do with my parents....I am old enough to form my own opinions, and as a matter of fact, there were no KNOWN gays while I was being raised as a child, so my parents had nothing to do with my opinion o this.

I am still waiting for an answer, though, despite the fact you tried to demonize my parents and me....this is an honest question that I think needs to be addressed....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:28 PM on 11/18/2008
- peggyleg I'm a Fan of peggyleg 22 fans permalink

luvobama, just looked at your bio and comments...you seem awfully obsessed with how people were raised...I guess this is your come-back for all opinions you don't agree with....I am sorry that YOU have nothing more than "bad parenting" to fall back on as far as your opinions are concerned...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:34 PM on 11/18/2008
- Minako I'm a Fan of Minako 44 fans permalink
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That's an awful nasty stereotype you've got there peggyleg.

Would it be right for me to stereotype all African-Americans as thugs? Or all Asian-Americans as good at math? Not at all. Every individual is different.

Some homosexuals are flamboyant, yes, but plenty of them have the same dreams and desires as straight people. To get married, to have a family, to work hard and retired to live the rest of their lives in peace and quiet with the ones they love.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:25 PM on 11/18/2008
- peggyleg I'm a Fan of peggyleg 22 fans permalink

I did not mean to "stero-tyoe" anyone, minako...I was merely making a point that I have observed through the years the un-traditional way of living in the gay community...and it was almost as if it were done on purpose..thumbing their nose at traditional values. Hopefully, you take no offense to this and can tell me where I am wrong in thinking this...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:36 PM on 11/18/2008

clearly you don't know most gays.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:26 PM on 11/18/2008
- peggyleg I'm a Fan of peggyleg 22 fans permalink

Obviously, I don't...I was under the impression, by the actions of many gays, that most are untraditional....my greatest pardon if I am wrong...

Being "untraditional" is not a slam, it is simply an observation of mine....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:32 PM on 11/18/2008
- luvobama I'm a Fan of luvobama 319 fans permalink

But boy does he love hanging with them!! Just can't get enough of the gay attention. It's amusing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 PM on 11/18/2008
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You have to love the hypocrisy. The Fundies *love* to attack gay people on their supposed promiscuity--and yet those who wish to enter into loving long-term relationships (called marriage) are now their targets.

It never was "all of a sudden," dear--this desire to marry the person you love and share in the rights, responsibilities, and privileges has been around as long as there have been gay people. And that's as long as there have been human beings on this planet. (By that way, that's longer than 6,000 years--just in case you're as misinformed on that fact as you are on practically everything else.)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:28 PM on 11/18/2008
- peggyleg I'm a Fan of peggyleg 22 fans permalink

Suspected promiscuity? You missed the point of what I was trying to say, balancement, why are you so eager to think this is what I meant? If I had meant promiscuity, I would have said it...I said untraditional.....meaning, men who dress feminine, and women who dress masculine, and those sort of things...nothing to do with promiscuity....please, do NOT read things into my words that are not there....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:40 PM on 11/18/2008
- gaydm I'm a Fan of gaydm 8 fans permalink
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Maybe we have a chance at it after centuries of waiting. Maybe we, and I don't mean to deny that some gays do not wish to get married, would just like to have our love recognized by my church and family. Please!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:33 PM on 11/18/2008
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