Gingrich On Prop 8 Protests: "Gay And Secular Fascism ... Prepared To Use Violence"

Media Matters reports on a Fox News discussion between Bil O'Reilly and Newt Gingrich on protests against the California gay marriage ban:

O'REILLY: OK, now, the culture war. I know you've been flying around the country, and you're doing stuff. In the last three or four days, this is really nasty stuff. I mean, you know, hyper -- we're gonna show you some of the video. A woman getting a cross smashed out of her hand. We had a church in Michigan invaded by gay activists. We're gonna show you the video on Monday of that -- we have exclusively. We had a guy in Sacramento fired from his job. We had boycotts called on restaurants.

I mean, it is getting out of control, very few days after the election. How do you assess that?

GINGRICH: Look, I think there is a gay and secular fascism in this country that wants to impose its will on the rest of us, is prepared to use violence, to use harassment. I think it is prepared to use the government if it can get control of it. I think that it is a very dangerous threat to anybody who believes in traditional religion. And I think if you believe in historic Christianity, you have to confront the fact. And, frank -- for that matter, if you believe in the historic version of Islam or the historic version of Judaism, you have to confront the reality that these secular extremists are determined to impose on you acceptance of a series of values that are antithetical, they're the opposite, of what you're taught in Sunday school.

For a dose of reality, here is video of some of the protests:

Comments

[BlackYowe]

I really can't stand the religious right but from comments I read on here it seems clear the hate is stronger on the side of the Gay activists who bash all religion and hate all Christians regardless of how they stand on "Gay Rights". I am good and sick of being Gay being equated to being Black! Sorry, NO way. Did your ancestors come to this country in chains in the bottom of leaky sailing ships. Did your ancestors get bred like cattle and then sold? Did you ever fear you would get lynched for using the wrong door? Did you Gay activists ever wonder if your children would ever get a good education because of you being Gay? For one thing no one knows what your sexual preference is by your looks. You can blend any time you feel like relaxing. African Americans can never escape even for 15 minutes because their skin color is not something they can cover up. Get over yourselves please, if you want moderates like me to take you seriously?

[TLY]

First, many Christians seem in conflict with the teachings of Jesus when it comes to gays, but many support us. Know that many gays realize this and are appreciative. Second, our own families have disowned us for being gay. We've been rejected by people of our own color - black, white, yellow, brown – and blood. We've lived lies to avoid this rejection. Some of us have killed ourselves. We've lived in fearful solitude, not knowing who our allies were because, like you said, you can't always tell by looks. We've been called child molesters because we’re gay. We've lost our jobs and have been beaten and killed for being gay. The Bible was used as justification for violence and discrimination against us. We were also victims of the holocaust. Discrimination against us has been legislated into law. So we, like African Americans, like women, (and many of us being all three), have been victims of ignorance and fear. No one can relax, even if they are hiding, in a world ruled by ignorance and fear. And no one should relax. They should fight it like we are fighting it, like African Americans and women fought it. And as I would fight for them, I hope they would fight for me. Because none of us - especially those of us who have experienced oppression - should ever let a society treat any of its members as unequal citizens. We should all live respecting and defending the inherent worth and dignity

[BlackYowe]

TLY, I think Gay people have every right to have civil unions and to be safe and happy. Any genuine Christian would want to see that ensured in the USA. Yes, many Gay people have suffered but NOTHING like Black people have or even Jews. Gay activists must drop the snotty attitudes if they want to be treated with respect. When you start this thing you are the same as Blacks then the rest of the equation makes it look like people who are apposed to Gay marriage are the same as the KKK and that just plain ain't the case. In Canada very few Gay people get married even though it is legal. In the UK Gay people have civil unions and they are happ and most couples choose that route anyway. Being a Christian means treating others with love and I do. I have many Gay friends and yes they know how I feel and are still my friends. With most of the heterosexual couples in this country now having children out of wedlock, it seems most odd Gay activists are so hung up on the "marriage thing". I would have you read Same-Sex Marriage, Putting Every Household at Risk by Mathew D. Staver, please? This is a trophy thing for the Gay movement. You do not value marriage you want to kill it. Marriage is and always will be the union of a man and a women.

[RationalDubSteppa]

When I was younger I was a member(for some of that time against my will) of a fundamentalist christian sect(do they come any other way?) And I can tell you first hand the hatred for homosexuals it's fierce and borderline pathological. Our Gay brothers and sisters have a right to feel outraged and threatened because they are millions of faithful christians who don't have a problem whatsoever with violence being used against homosexual and that trend seems to have increased within the god-loving community over the past decade. The fact of the matter is in America being a christian is an excuse for wanton bigotry and that has got to stop.

[RationalDubSteppa]

Replace everything the word 'gay' with the word 'black' in what Newt Gingrich says and you have the same sentiment echoed decades ago by prominent segregationist in the south. Might be a different pile of sh!te but it's the same old stink.

[BlackYowe]

Race and sexual orientation are not the same. This argument does not hold water. Newt is someone I despise and homophobia is real but let's not blur reality here? Black people have suffered for generations and the pain and humiliation has been passed down for hundreds of years through families. There is no comparison. That dog don't hunt.

[Rindy]

DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT THE MAJORITY THAT VOTED ARE MORMONS , CATHOLICS AND RELIGIOUS GROUPS. YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD ALL YOUR LIFE THAT YOU ARE THE MINORITY WHEN YOU ARE THE MAJORITY. DONT TRY TO KNOW WHAT I'AM SAYING **** DYNAMOHUM***** OR DAN FROM AKRON ****** BECAUSE YOU REALLY DONT. THESE PEOPLE( MORMONS/ CATHOLICS) DIDN'T INFLUENCE NO ONE TO GO TO THE POLLS AND VOTE YES . WEATHER IT WAS WITH ADS OR ETC ON TV. BOTH SIDES HAD ADS GOING ON TO VOTE YES AND ALSO TO VOTE NO. YOUR RELATIVES AND YOUR HETEROSEXUAL FRIENDS THAT SMILE UP IN YOUR FACE EVERYDAY VOTED YES. THE MINORITY HELPED THE MAJORITY PASS PROP. 8. THIS IS WHY MAJORITY WILL ALWAYS RULE IN THIS COUNTRY. PERSONALLY YOU DONT KNOW ME AND I DONT KNOW YOU. IT SHOULD BE LEFT THAT WAY. CURSING OTHERS OUT BECAUSE YOU DONT LIKE WHAT THEY SAY IS FUNNY. IM STILL LAUGHING ******* DYNAMOHUM******* YOU ARE SURE HAVING A TANTRUM.

[Claudiajoy]

Both sides had a right to make a case, and both sides embellished their cases. The Pro-side won, now it's your right to make your legal challenges & have your protest. I'm so tired of Black people trying to break down the 70% statistic to prove that it wasn't enough of us to pass the bill. Correct it wasn't enough Latino's or Blacks combined to pass the bill, but SO WHAT! I'm proud that 70% of Black people had strength, decency, & common sense to say Yes. We are a defeated people & that 70% proved that we are not yet destroyed. Now, the senseless attacks on religious people is just burning bridges with all groups, even people that voted NO. I guess some forget that some religious folk voted NO. Stop trying to defend religion with the bible to the secular, atheist, homoism's. Who cares if they call you bigot, Palin called obama a terrorist, people will use key words propaganda to get their way. They can call my 70% folks the B-word until they turn red in the face, we simply don't care, we've been called worse the N-word. We actually made that word popular. You see defeated, but not destroyed.

[RationalDubSteppa]

Caps lock key stopped working?

[rixter1965]

If Newt, with his decidedly checkered history living "traditional values" and the sanctity of marriage, can show evidence of one gay-secular militia stockpiling weapons and conducting training exercises in rural areas of the United States, I'll move to California and participate in the revote on Proposition 8!

If Mormon and Catholic leaders can cite one instance of a gay couple coming to their church and demanding to be married (without ever being members or active or not), I'll move to California and vote on Prop 8.

If any proponents of Prop 8 can offer a real argument that it would lead to teaching about sexuality to kindergarten clases, same deal.

It's all "bait and swtich" all over again. Religious institutions have their ideas and rules regarding performing marriage ceremonies (for example, taking "marriage classes" before the pastor/whatever performs the ceremony). But Federal and state governments offer a variety of rights, tax benefits, etc., for married couples. Religious traditions (alive and well in this country) and equality before the law are two very different things.

Conservative groups claiming victimhood is getting a bit tiresome. If someone or some group of whatever opinion or position on the political spectrum commits a crime, then it's a crime and can be prosecuted. Because, all the faults aside, we still live in a country governed by laws.

[Tsckey]

“[Y]ou have to confront the reality that these secular extremists are determined to impose on you acceptance of a series of values that are antithetical, they're the opposite, of what you're taught in Sunday school.” I’m not sure what, if anything, Newt was taught in Sunday school, but in the one I (reluctantly) attended they taught us not to lie. Since lies and distortion were at the heart of the “Yes on 8” campaign, and presumably at the heart of their religious beliefs, are we to suppose that truth and honesty are secular values? Does that leave duplicity and prevarication as the center pieces of religious faith?

[LeeCalif]

People of all stripes were fooled into voting for this discriminatory proposition.
The P.R. firm had to use lies and scare tactics and threats of loss of parental control to win

The discriminatory Prop 8 was managed by a guy named Schubert. Hired by the Mormons.
Schubert has a P.R. firm with offices in Orange County & Sacramento.

They have been on the side of big business, anti-union, conservative Republican, anti-consumer initiatives. In New Jersey, Oregon & California.
It was Schubert's P.R. group, Schubert Flint Public Affairs with offices in Sacramento & Orange County that lied their way to victory on this one, folks. He is STILL the front man for this in TV and print interviews. They made a TRUCKLOAD of money on this.

Their tack is to control public opinion for their client by molding & shaping public opinion..
That is done by having "operatives" write letters to the editors of hundreds of newspapers, getting those newspapers to editorialize on their client's behalf, and to manufacture commercials that seem homey
& quaint & protective of 'plain Americans'. All the time lying without compunction. They use sponsorship names that sound like grassroots organizations but are anything but.

They have been extremely successful. They are extremely dangerous.

We need to start a P.R. offensive of our own.

[RationalDubSteppa]

LeeCalif,

That is utter and complete nonsense. People new exactly what they where voting for end of story. and anyone that says they were confused are just afraid of being called out on their own bigotry. They voted for Prop 8 because they have no problem embracing bigotry. African Americans undeniably helped in the passing of prop 8, voting overwhelmingly for the proposition. It's no secret the African Americans are one of the most homophobic groups in America today(Like Bill Maher expressed a few weeks ago, it's not that black folk hate gays it's that they love them some Jesus... and well Jesus and gays don't get along according to the good book).

Now It wouldn't be fair to pin this on black folk alone plenty of other ethnicities and races voted for Prop. 8 as well, but the reason I singled out African Americans in my examples is because of that huge elephant in the room; "Religion"!!

Prop. 8 passed because a bunch of people who believe in space god(s) and their dominion over our sex lives fear that if two consenting adults get together and do it in the naughty place an angel dies. Starting a P.R. Offensive won't help their but calling out bigots for who they really are will probably get you better results.

[jaydeedub]

Newt is still way gay for Reagan

[rbryanh]

I'm grateful to Newt Gingrich (and Fox News) for reminding me just what the gay agenda is. As a middle-aged gay fascist I'm getting somewhat forgetful, and but for them might become confused. For example, just today I was momentarily distracted on my way from the gym to having my scrotum waxed, and completely forgot to suppress organized religion.

I have a busy day tomorrow, and but for this timely reminder might completely forget to get a haircut before I pick up an automatic weapon at the Kenneth Cole boutique, burn all copies of the Bible, and institute a totalitarian regime.

'Scuse me - gotta run. My gay and secular friends are blowing up a church on the way to the club, and it takes me forever to get dressed.

[Saxony]

I'm grateful to Barack Obama (and MSNBC) for reminding me just what the conservative agenda is. As a middle-aged straight socialist I'm getting somewhat forgetful, and but for them might become confused. For example, just today I was momentarily distracted on my way from the country club to having my portfolio updated, and completely forgot to suppress alternative lifestyles.

I have a busy day tomorrow, and but for this timely reminder might completely forget to get a new suit before I pick up a ticket to the tractor pull, burn all copies of the Constitution, and institute a theocratic regime.

'Scuse me - gotta run. My religious friends are blowing up a gay bar on the way to Church, and it takes me forever to get my church frock on.

Duh, a laugh a minute -- try reason, it's so much easier than failed wit.

[TXCourtney]

I thought it was pretty witty actually.

You see, back during the Enlightenment, French and English intellectuals pioneered this new literary style of political dissent called satire. It still exists today in shows like SNL. Really, you should check it out.

[RationalDubSteppa]

LMAO, good one mate!

[Manchurian]

Kenneth Cole makes really shoddy products; be sure to check the action on any automatic weapons you happen pick up there.

[Hephaestion]

Gingrich's idiotic comments are a smoke screen. He can not accept or admit that one can be a Christian and want justice for the gay citizens of America. He can not accept that most Christians today see gay people as brothers and sisters, not as outsiders.

Jesus loved the outsiders and hated the Gingrich-types anyway.

[Saxony]

Newt may be many things, and may say many things with which you (or I) disagree with. An idiot? No, that's not true. He's anything but. Most Christians I think do believe gay people are perfectly good people, who live in a way that is against what they believe.

I have never met a Christian who "hates f***s" (hate even writing that in that fashion). Jesus said to love your enemies, to say he "hated the Gingrich-types" is foolish and indicates basic ignorance of anything Christian, certainly anything to do with Christ.

Being accepting and forgiving of those that you think are on the wrong path -- that's the Christian way. That doesn't mean they're going to recognize same-sex relationships as equal to marriage.

By the way, I'm not particularly religious. To me, marriage is something far more than just a religious institution. It underpins in many ways all sorts of elements of civilization.

[Manchurian]

I think Hephaestion was just pointing out the hypocrisy of "Christians" who exhibit un-Christlike behavior, such as intolerance. And while I agree Newt is anything but an idiot (he's exceptionally intelligent, actually), that doesn't preclude him - or any of us - from making "idiotic comments."

[rit]

Do not allow gays to get married. Please deny them of this civil right. I don't hate gays;just there sexual act. I don't hate blacks;just there acts of black-on-black crime. I do not hate Hispanics; just there acts of thinking they have rights when they are illegal..W­e have the right to hate any act as an Am citizen, be it religious reason or not. Hating an act is not being Prejudice. Gays are trying to brainwash us in believing that we hate them when we don't. Once we allow gays to marry; pedaphiles will be looking for their rights, sick people will try to marry dogs, and cats. (They already leave their pets inheritance while humans starve.) Please do not hate gays-JUST HATE THERE ACT.


Love your friend, but you don't have to do him!!

[BenK1976]

actually hating (maybe you mean something less...wel­l, hateful) is not a prejudice unless it takes the form of an action that limits another on the basis of such a hatred or results in inaction based on same.

I think the problem here is that you lack information or education about the definition of a hate crime, the actual meaning of prejudice, and, sadly, some basic statistics about a number of things.

It sounds like you won't look at data and then draw a conclusion but draw a conclusion and then find data (fundamentally irrational). So, that said, I will point out one fact: Minorities (racial, gender, sexual, religious or otherwise) are often blamed for the ills of society because it is easy.

So, here are two facts you may find interesting:
1) 95% of all cross dresser/tr­ansvestite­s are STRAIGHT. I knew one who was married and worked high steel but just loved to dress up as a woman once in a while.
2) 95% of all pedophiles are STRAIGHT WHITE MEN
oh, here's a third just for fun...
3) 99% of all serial killers are WHITE MEN IN MID LIFE
So, should I hate white men just because of these facts?...s­o many schmucks, so little time

[UrbanInterloper]

Hate or don't hate gay people, as you wish. This is irrelevant to the issue of equal rights under the law.

What if people didn't hate you, they just hated your poor grammar ("their" vs. "there," etc.), misspellings and ignorance (most Hispanic people in the U.S. are not only legal residents, but U.S. citizens)? And so they decided that you should be stripped of rights you already possessed?

Extend your "marry dogs" argument far enough, and you would advocate abolishing marriage altogether, or else the gays will start getting ideas by seeing happily married straights.

[Hephaestion]

Poppycock. Where did you learn these bizarre lies? And if you keep me from having justice in my homeland, I don't give a damn if you hate me or not, but I will sure hate your act of keeping me a second class citizen in my own damn country.

[MoeB]

Lit, hate what you want to hate...tha­t's on you...it is, afterall, a freeish country.

But you're whole 'hate the sin, not the sinner' logic is ridiculous. Since you lie, is it ok to deny you rights based on the premise that we all should not hate liars, but hate the lie? Therefore, we should suppress liars because we don't like the act of lying? That's weak.

And you "hate" black on black crime, but not white on white crime? You "hate" hispanics thinking they have rights as illegals, but not Europeans who think the same? That, in fact, is VERY prejudiced.

Also, I seriously doubt that it is the act of homosexuality that you hate, so much as the people INVOLVED. I don't see religious groups out protesting straight anal sex...or straight oral sex. And in the case of men, I don't even see a "hate" of lesbian sex (I see women with women all the time in "straight" porn). Just gay men.

And according to your premise, if we allow heterosexual marriage, or any marriage at all, it leads down a slippery slope...so maybe we should just outlaw marriage altogether.

[Saxony]

I'd suggest those posting here review some of the various posts; you can smell the intolerance from those who claim to want tolerance. Of course those who claim only peaceful protest obviously are either unaware or don't care about the vandalism of Mormon buildings (see hate crime, I'm there are those here who remember hate crime), or sending white powder in envelopes to Mormon Churches (see terrorism, if you don't think so, check out how funny the FBI thinks that is, even if it just flour).

I think Newt was exaggerating by using the term "fascism." But that term has been thrown around with abandon since the end of WWII (and before really).

He was accurate that there is an intolerance among those of the left, and yes, by many gays (who are not so gay in the traditional sense, in fact quite angry and intolerant).

Marriage is more than religious as an institution -- this is not really a religious issue, though there is an element certainly, how many people still get married in churches? Most I'd imagine.

There are other elements here: Cultural, historical, political, legal, social, even lingual. A small group trying to redefine a term, and an ancient institution, to suit their desires, now that is extreme.

[Nikola Tesla]

Like redefining it to NOT include the biblical tradition of polygamy?

[Saxony]

Yes, that did take centuries, and has in fact not been completed. Polygamy is accepted in much of the world. And while there have always been some cultures that accepted polygamy and others that only accepted monogamy, there have been few if any that really accepted same-sex unions as the same as marriage.

Think about if for a second: Same-sex relationships have been around since the beginning of time or at least recorded history, but only now has some folks somewhere decided they are the same as marriage. Polygamy has as well, but that was always defined as marriage.

Polygamy has a greater claim on recognition as marriage than same-sex relationships.

Seems pretty clear.

[Giada]

This is a religious issue in that both the Catholic Church and Mormon Church contributed money to oppose the California State Constitution with a personal religious agenda. The Yes on Prop 8 campaign was promoted with un-truths. I consider fraud as damning as force.

The response by gays was a response to a denial of human/civil rights. I haven't read of any arrests. Ten thousand in San Diego, two thousand in LA, etc.

Religions do not have an exclusive on the word marriage. The word is subject to change both by culture and preferred use of an individual. Nothing like freedom, it suits the individual.

[Saxony]

A touch rambling. But as I would say and did say, the religious aspects of marriage are only one element of the institution. I know those are the talking points, the simple response: "It's all religion."

No. That's not true. If that were the case, there would be no such thing as civil ceremonies. But yes, it has become intertwined with religion.

"I consider fraud as damning as force."

Sometimes it comes down to just plain language: That's stupid. Fraud is hard to define in this case, on either side. Force is easy to define -- vandalizing a building because of their religion or beliefs? Hate crime. Pure and simple.

[BenK1976]

I forget, how many women can Mormons marry?

[Saxony]

"I forget, how many women can Mormons marry?"

One.

Though polygamy has a more substantial history than does claims to same sex "marriage.­" In fact our President-elect's father was a polygamist. As are many folks in the middle east today. Doesn't mean we want it here. But it's not a civil rights issue either -- being deprived of the right to marry multiple wives (or husbands), does not mean that any individual is being discriminated against.

[TXCourtney]

Righteous anger is justified--acts of violence including vandalism and terrorism are not. The right to life, liberty, and property should not be infringed.

The term "fascism" should not be used outside of a limited historical context. Comparisons to Hitler--from both the left and right--are more often than not made by those who are completely ignorant of 20th century history or political philosophy in general.

The cultural and historic definition of this "ancient institution" has changed slowly over the years, and it is continuing to evolve as our modern social values evolve. Up until the 19th century, married women had virtually no rights at all. Fifty years ago in Northern Ireland, a boy of fourteen years of age and a girl of twelve years of age could validly marry under common law. Interracial marriage was outlawed until 1967. Slowly, the definition is moving towards allowing all consenting adults to chose the life partner of their choice.

[harriettubman]

Violence isn't the way to achieve anything. Dr. King didn't operate in a violent manner for anyone's civil rights.

This group can attempt to justify their actions but to invade a church service plus knock a cross out of someone's handle borders on mental instability and irrationability. This is how prejudiced white people acted during Jim Crow, with violence.

[mercury613]

It's not "mental instability and irrational­ity." It's anger, and it's righteous. When someone takes away your right to marry, we'll talk about how you react.

[harriettubman]

And when domestic partnership is approved, what next? It'll be something else.

At this point all this group is doing is turning off more people about this issue. I don't do violence by any means.

[Nikola Tesla]

The Suffragettes used terrorist tactics.

Women vote today because their sisters bombed then.

[Nikola Tesla]

The irony here is that a Gay President freed the slaves at the cost of a million American's lives

[Nikola Tesla]

Including his own, BTW.

[Nikola Tesla]

From the same people that picket funerals holding signs that say, "GOD HATES F*GS!"

[luckylily88]

it's cute how gingrich shows a consistent lack of knowledge about our own constitution.

wait, did i say cute?

i meant terrifying.