Faces Of GOP Schism Starting To Take Shape

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First Posted: 11-18-08 02:48 PM   |   Updated: 12-19-08 05:12 AM

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As glib as it is to talk about how the 2008 election left the GOP in a fractious state, this is not just idle tea-time chatter for poli-sci nabobs: the GOP is faced with a Classic versus New Coke decision. They can dial up the Palin populism or chart a new course along with the Grand New Party types. And we can already start ascribing faces to each side. Ana Marie Cox has been assessing the future figureheads of the GOP, and, in a pair of interviews for The Daily Beast, the contrasts between the two potential party personalities emerge in striking fashion.

Mike Pence is a congressman from Indiana who's set to take over as chair of the House Republican Conference. About all you need to know about the guy is contained in Cox's deck text: he thinks "the GOP lost in 2008 by not being conservative enough."

Q: What do you think happened to Republicans this cycle?


PENCE: Well, I think Republicans lost because of a combination of a very well-run, national campaign by the Democratic Party and the Democratic nominee, and a profound loss of credibility on issues of fiscal discipline, limited government, and reform. And I think the way back is for us with OUR voters, is to renew our commitment to putting in to practice what we've always professed.

Of course, the one thing that the Mike Pences of the world are reluctant to address is the fact that the cohort he refers to as "OUR voters" were presented with a number of variations on the classic conservative candidate, and moved very quickly to anoint McCain. But I digress. Pence's larger concern is about the size of government, and he declares Bush's "big government conservatism" to be "a failed experiment." Frankly, I think that the failed experiment of the Bush Presidency had less to do with the size of government than it did with the overall lack of competence featured in the governance.

Q: But with the election of Obama, Americans have clearly embraced the idea of big government. What successful political candidates of the modern era have promised smaller government?


PENCE: I think the candidacies of George W. Bush certainly professed a commitment to fiscal disciple. I remember even Bill Clinton in his day. I remember the state of the union address, when he said, "The era of big government is over."

Q: But do you feel like he followed through on that promise?

PENCE: With a Republican majority in Congress, you saw President Clinton sign balanced budgets and bring about welfare reform. But I still believe in my heart, that most Americans know that the government that governs least governs best and that as government expends, freedom contracts. And I really believe with all of my heart today that the majority of Americans today, regardless of individual election results, or this national election results, are looking for leaders who will apply those principles to the governance of the nation.

Of course, Pence's response more or less neatly ignores the premise of the original question, that voters opted for Obama's vision of governance. Basically, Pence's prescription for what ails his party is to continue doing, to coin a phrase, more of the same, and hope for better results.

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Tim Pawlenty, on the other hand, approached the question in a very different way. Asked to "decode" his vision of the future of the GOP, Pawlenty consciously steers away from bromides, and, significantly, goes right to citing policy initiatives:

Q: I've heard you describe yourself as a traditional, mainstream conservative, but you don't seem that way to me. What is it about you that makes liberals like me not frightened of you?


PAWLENTY: [Laughs] I consider myself a conservative, you know, it's a worn-out phrase, in the Reagan tradition. If you look at the whole Reagan record ... part of it was he was pragmatic, he was hopeful, he was optimistic, he was civil, he was positive. But I think the Republican Party needs to be more contemporary.

Q: When you say "contemporary," you don't mean moderate, so what do you mean? Decode that for me.

PAWLENTY: I will decode that for you. A couple of tangible examples. We were behind on the energy debate. It was a huge need. It was part of the reason we're in this economic trouble and instead of scrambling to come up with some stuff over the last year like we did as a national party, we should have been doing what Minnesota and some other individuals and groups have done and been addressing this aggressively, fifteen or twenty years ago. "Drill, baby, drill" is, not by itself, a comprehensive, contemporary energy strategy. We should not have been the party DRAGGED to the renewable energy debate, we should have been out leading it, with OUR approaches, ideas and incentives for it.

That's an example, another example: just the bread and butter issues. I won't go through them all because your eyes will glaze over, but one actual example is, people are worried--"How am I gonna pay for my kid's tuition?" Republicans could be very modern, reach out to young people by saying, "We're going to reduce your tuition, and here's how we're going to do it. We're going to make the program have more variety, it's going to be more accessible, it's going to be more technologically savvy, it's going to look more like an iPod than a 1940s assembly line. We're gonna offer money to regional universities or universities that can put all or most of their degrees online. And we're gonna help pay for it. Instead of building more buildings, we're migrating delivery of higher education services online and once you add one more student to an online program, the marginal cost is zero--and so instead of having a debate about tuition going up X percent or Y percent, we could be talking about tuition going down X percent or Y percent. And, by the way, you can access it anywhere, any time, best of class..." And that would, I think, relate to young people. It would be technologically "current," it would be talking about reforming the way we deliver a service, it would about providing it better, cheaper, faster... it would be "cool."

Of course, I have to wonder where Pawlenty was keeping this whole tuition-reduction-through-online-advancement idea the whole time he was flacking for -- and perhaps hoping to serve as the Vice-President of -- John McCain, who could have benefited from anything remotely "contemporary," let alone "cool." But this is why I basically consider Pawlenty to be the emerging "formidable opponent" on the GOP side, heading to 2012. Unlike Mike Pence, he seems to understand that a greater obeisance to the "worn-out phrases" that have defined the GOP's side of the endless "Red-versus-Blue" debate will not help his party's future fortunes. Rather, he seems to believe that a cure for the GOP's ailments, and service-oriented, prescriptive policies that address the needs of the electorate, are inextricably linked.

As glib as it is to talk about how the 2008 election left the GOP in a fractious state, this is not just idle tea-time chatter for poli-sci nabobs: the GOP is faced with a Classic versus New Coke deci...
As glib as it is to talk about how the 2008 election left the GOP in a fractious state, this is not just idle tea-time chatter for poli-sci nabobs: the GOP is faced with a Classic versus New Coke deci...
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I would like to think that someone like Pawlenty learned something from the election results and truly wanted to "modernize" the Republican party to make it more responsive to the needs of the american people..bu­t if the on-line college program is his best example of how the Republicans will update and become "cool", I am extremely doubtful about him and the GOP really "getting it" or "getting with it". True we need to make education more affordable and accessible for all, but I can not imagine that doing all of your college work on-line could ever come close to providing students with a comprehensive and excellent educational experience that will enable our younger population to keep up the demands of working in a global economy.. or for that matter... make them more rounded, intellectually curious individuals able to determine when they are being fed bull by politicians, etc...

Haven't forgotten either about Pawlenty and the bridge disaster.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:13 PM on 11/19/2008
- kasv I'm a Fan of kasv 18 fans permalink

Kathleen Parker has a good read on God and the GOP. I loved this line:

"Anyone watching the two conventions last summer can't have missed the stark differences: One party was brimming with energy, youth and diversity; the other felt like an annual Depends sales meeting."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/18/AR2008111802886.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:26 AM on 11/19/2008
- HST I'm a Fan of HST 51 fans permalink
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kasv

don't you dare use "Kathleen Parker" and "good read" in the same sentence -ugh!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:03 AM on 11/20/2008
- walleymr I'm a Fan of walleymr 10 fans permalink
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PS, you really want to make the cost of college/university cheaper? Put caps on textbook companies so they can't charge $80 and up for their books.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:37 AM on 11/19/2008
- rpr I'm a Fan of rpr 2 fans permalink

Just demand universities use Open Source textbooks. Cut the publishers out. Nobody needs them any more.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:42 PM on 11/22/2008
- walleymr I'm a Fan of walleymr 10 fans permalink
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With most of the schools I know of that offer online versions of their classes, the online versions are more expensive.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:35 AM on 11/19/2008
- Loki11467 I'm a Fan of Loki11467 8 fans permalink
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Maybe they should reform as the Whig party

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:04 AM on 11/19/2008
- zest I'm a Fan of zest 16 fans permalink

Why don't they make the Reputlican party a religion and be done with it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:56 AM on 11/19/2008
- lewes17266 I'm a Fan of lewes17266 9 fans permalink
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I always wonder how God will deal with these people who use religion and scripture for personal gain, for political maneuvering. I doubt I will ever vote for a Republican again. We should all think long and hard about voting for anyone who seeks the endorsement of, or already has the endorsement of, our famous millionaire holymen or of the "evangelical" community.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:25 AM on 11/19/2008
- Cyano I'm a Fan of Cyano 3 fans permalink

As all evidence indicates, the top, big, first priority of Republican leaders and most of the "base" is idealogical purity, as opposed to facing up to the problems of the American people. To think that so many of their best-known "leaders" such as Palin, Huckabee, and Jindal advocate (for example) the ridiculous notion of teaching creationism in science classes is appalling in the 21 century. I've always taken it as a sign of a lack of intellectual rigor (which it is), but clearly the whole point of promoting such a stupid "culture war" agenda is to change the subject from significant policy questions to controversies (abortion, gay marriage, etc.) that may never be resolved to the satisfaction of all parties. So, the real Republican strategy continues to be: Argue about Controversies while Neglecting to Solve National Problems. They may start to throw some buzzwords around about infrastructure, energy policy, etc. but they are NOT up to those challenges, period.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:11 AM on 11/19/2008

buzz words is all they have

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:57 AM on 11/19/2008
- walleymr I'm a Fan of walleymr 10 fans permalink
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You hit the nail on the head. It's like their "southern strategy".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:39 AM on 11/19/2008
- vippy I'm a Fan of vippy 71 fans permalink

Democrats are not for big government either. How can anyone Bush's huge government expansion.
Someone has to pay for it and we cannot be taxed more with the economy going to hell. In fact,
how are they expecting the big dollars rolling in when most people lost their jobs already and more
jobs will be lost, it is the domino effect. Next year will be very bleak, it will be survival of the fittest.
I cannot fathom why they (the politicians) passed a budget this year that was even higher than last
year. And guess what, we voted the same people in again.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:42 AM on 11/19/2008

The problem with the GOP message is that they are "small" government until it comes to the very issues that most of us want the government to get out of -- i.e., the management of our bodies and our relationships with other people. As long as the GOP panders to the anti-intellectual religious right, it won't have the support of the majority of educated people in the country -- and believe me, many of those folks are fiscally conservative and "small" government oriented, but they won't have themselves tied to a bunch of superstitious nosy hypocrites.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:24 AM on 11/19/2008
- HST I'm a Fan of HST 51 fans permalink
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Heh heh, he called the GOP 'schism".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:23 AM on 11/19/2008
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Neither Pence nor Pawlenty represent true conservatism. In fact, conservatism isn't that bad on paper. I mean, who wants higher taxes paying for inefficient programs so poorly designed and managed that almost no one benefits? Who wants a weak military, such that it no longer serves as a viable deterrent to its enemies? And who wants to continue to interpret the Constitution in ever-more expansive ways that -- let's admit it -- lead to bigger and bigger government?

No American, regardless of party or ideology, likes a government that doesn't work for the most people most often. The problem is that most American citizens are too uninformed about basic civics that they could grasp how complicated governing this country is. So politicians believe, based on focus groups with so-called "average" Americans, that they need to dumb down the concepts to get them to pass muster with the voters.

I think the opposite is needed. Politicians need to lead Americans to achieve a greater understanding of their government. Perhaps term limits would do the trick, as it would enable more and more people to have access to office. Perhaps 100% public financing of elections, so that special interests are less likely to have influence over candidates. I'm not advocating any of this, but surely a workable solution is available. And once we follow the example of our next president and really start to get to solutions beyond the partisanship that has so polarized this country, maybe we can get somewhere.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:10 AM on 11/19/2008
- kaukerc I'm a Fan of kaukerc 9 fans permalink

I am hoping that Al Franken wins so he will be able to expose Tim Pawlenty for the wing-nut that he is...Don't be fooled by the smile; there's a cobra there waiting to strike.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:43 PM on 11/18/2008

Finally, the Republican party is small enough to drown in the bathtub.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:32 PM on 11/18/2008
- princessk I'm a Fan of princessk 2 fans permalink

Ha! Good one.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:35 AM on 11/19/2008
- sepiasiren I'm a Fan of sepiasiren 122 fans permalink
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ah hahahahaha­hahaha!!!!­!!!!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:40 AM on 11/19/2008
- moodigirl I'm a Fan of moodigirl 6 fans permalink
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Excellent :-}

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:38 AM on 11/19/2008
- BonoVox I'm a Fan of BonoVox 9 fans permalink

Pawlenty was elected in Minnesota on a "no new taxes" pledge, vetoed light rail, and vetoed a comprehensive transportation bill (less than a year after the bridge fell) that was overridden with legislators from his party crossing over to vote with the Democrats. Two weeks ago, the people of Minnesota voted to raise their own taxes with more votes than Obama received. Pawlenty is an out-of-step, traditional conservative who just happens to be more polished and media-savvy than Pence. Yes, he's young and funny, which is disarming. But your premise is completely wrong; he is not substantially different from the rest of the party. His agenda is set by the conservatives who back him.

Please study his record before you try describing who he is. His dissing of "drill baby drill" is a shot at his potential rival, Palin, and plays well in his home state which has no oil wells. Believe me, it is NOT a sign he is somehow not a conservative. It's Same Old Coke, just poured into a different can.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:17 PM on 11/18/2008
- princessk I'm a Fan of princessk 2 fans permalink

Pawlenty's big into ethanol, which is partly why he is making that swipe about drilling and posturing as an environmentalist.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:48 AM on 11/19/2008
- tavote08 I'm a Fan of tavote08 11 fans permalink

They can be coke, pepsi, sprite, or bud lite hopefully by the time they figure it out our children will be well on their way into the next century. GOD WILLING!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:13 AM on 11/19/2008

He not only vetoed the transportation bill, he said in a press conference that he would remember which Republicans voted for it and they would suffer consequences. In addition to the clean water bill that we passed, the people of Minneapolis passed a school bond issue 71% to 29%. His tax cuts have set our state back. His education policies have been a joke and the legislature did not confirm his choice of a born-again head of education, imported from another state. He has this innocent, dorky smile but he is very dangerous. Listen to those of us that are from Minnesota-he is a conservative Republican, pure and simple.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:50 PM on 11/19/2008
- hmmmmmer I'm a Fan of hmmmmmer 29 fans permalink

As long as Republicans keep talking and making excuses they will be in the minority for decades to come.

Thank God!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:12 PM on 11/18/2008
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