Dow 8000: Markets Plummet Again

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JOE BEL BRUNO and SARA LEPRO | November 19, 2008 06:38 PM EST | AP

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NEW YORK — Wall Street hit levels not seen since 2003 on Wednesday, with the Dow Jones industrial average plunging below the 8,000 mark amid a dour economic outlook from the Federal Reserve and worries over the fate of Detroit's three automakers.

A cascade of selling occurred in the final minutes of the session as investors yanked money out of the market. For many, the real fear is that the recession might be even more protracted if Capitol Hill is unable to bail out the troubled auto industry.

Investors also scoured economic data that included minutes from the last meeting of the Federal Reserve in which policymakers lowered projections for economic activity this year and next. Economic worries caused across-the-board selling, with financial stocks particularly hard hit.

The S&P 500, widely considered the broadest snapshot of corporate America, slipped 52.54 points, or 6.12 percent, to 806.58; and the Dow gave up 427.47 points, or 5.07 percent, to 7,997.28. Both closed at their lowest levels since March 2003, and are rapidly approaching the lows of the 2000 to 2002 bear market.

The financial crisis has already wiped out $6.69 trillion of value from the S&P 500 since its October 2007 high, and many fear more is to come. Stocks have traded with high volatility in the past few months, with the major indexes soaring only to plunge an hour later as the market searches for a bottom.

"I don't know what the catalyst is going to be where we turn the corner and people start buying stocks wholeheartedly again," said Jon Biele, head of capital markets at Cowen & Co. "People got out of the way. The financial situation hasn't changed."

The selling on the New York Stock Exchange was staggering _ only 158 companies that trade there finished the day positive while 2,943 declined. Volume again was light, a symptom of the market's recent volatility, with 1.63 billion shares exchanging hands by the close.

Other major indexes were also clobbered. The technology-heavy Nasdaq composite index fell 96.85 points, or 6.53 percent, to 1,386.42. The Russell 2000 index of smaller companies gave up 35.13, or 7.85 percent, to 412.38.

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Investors were rattled on prospects that General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co., and Chrysler LLC might not get a $25 billion rescue package before Congress quits for the year. The heads of those companies told lawmakers that time is running out, and that if one of them collapsed it would have a disastrous impact on the already battered economy.

Congressional Democrats have proposed using part of the $700 billion financial bailout package to pump into the ailing auto industry, but Republicans oppose such an approach. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson has already shot down such an idea.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada was hopeful of a deal in the "next day or two." He still hoped Paulson would step in if Congress can't usher through a deal.

Ford shares, which traded as high as $8.79 in the past year, plunged 42 cents, or 25 percent, to $1.26. GM, a stock worth $29.95 in the past 52-weeks, fell 30 cents, or 9.7 percent, to $2.79.

The testimony in Washington only heightened fears on New York trading floors that the current recession might significantly deepen.

"Finance people don't like theatrics," said Bernie McGinn, chief investment officer of McGinn Investment Management.

Investors were discouraged by the Federal Reserve's sharply lowered projection for economic activity this year and next.

In the minutes from its last rate-setting meeting in October released Wednesday, the Fed signaled additional interest rate reductions may be needed to help combat the worst financial crisis to jolt the country in more than a half-century. The Fed predicts that, with the economy forecast to lose traction or maybe jolt into reverse, unemployment will move higher.

The uncertainty was evident after the government released two separate reports on consumer prices and new-home construction, more evidence that the economy remains in flux.

According to the Labor Department's Consumer Price Index, consumer prices plunged by the largest amount in the past 61 years in October as gasoline pump prices dropped by a record amount. While lower prices might be good for the consumer, they can hurt corporate profits. Lower prices also raise the threat of deflation, a prolonged bout of falling prices.

Meanwhile, a government report on the housing sector showed that the industry's severe correction continues. The Commerce Department reported that construction of new homes plunged 4.5 percent last month to the lowest level on government records.

Many economists believe the economy has fallen into a recession that could be the worst downturn in more than two decades. The expectation is that easing inflation pressures will give the Federal Reserve room to cut interest rates further, but that gave little solace to investors.

Stocks have been trading erratically for several weeks as the market tries to gauge the direction of the economy. Analysts expect the volatility to continue.

There has been relentless selling since Election Day, driving the S&P 500 down about 20 percent. For the year, the Dow is now down 39.71 percent, while the S&P has fallen 45.07 percent, and the Nasdaq is down 47.7 percent.

Some analysts believe the steep losses on Wednesday set the market up for a potential rally. Stock future prices late Wednesday indicated a more stable open to the market on Thursday.

"I wouldn't be surprised if we had a rally by the end of the week," McGinn said. "From a long-term perspective I'd think you'd rather want to be a buyer down here than a seller."

Still, any rally is likely to be fleeting as the market works its way out of bear territory.

Volatility in the stock market has kept demand for Treasury bonds high. The yield on the benchmark 10-year Treasury note fell to 3.32 percent from 3.53 percent on Tuesday.

The stock market's big drop also influenced oil prices. Light, sweet crude fell 77 cents to settle at $53.62 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange, about where prices were in January of 2007.

Consolidated volumed on the New York Stock Exchange came to 6.44 billion shares up from 5.4 billion on Tuesday.

In Asian trading, Japan's Nikkei index fell 0.66 percent, and Hong Kong's Hang Seng Index fell 0.77 percent. In European trading, Britain's FTSE 100 fell 4.82 percent, Germany's DAX index fell 4.92 percent, and France's CAC-40 fell 4.03 percent.

NEW YORK — Wall Street hit levels not seen since 2003 on Wednesday, with the Dow Jones industrial average plunging below the 8,000 mark amid a dour economic outlook from the Federal Reserve and ...
NEW YORK — Wall Street hit levels not seen since 2003 on Wednesday, with the Dow Jones industrial average plunging below the 8,000 mark amid a dour economic outlook from the Federal Reserve and ...
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sorry I get so worked up messed up the link

http://www.themanhattanprojectof2009.com

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:50 PM on 11/23/2008

Any way you slice this, our economy is in very dark and disturbing times. So much attention has been given to the mortgage crisis that little attention or credit for what the high cost of fuel this past year has played in our downward spiral. Unemployment is climbing every day. While most of the public seem to be doing the happy dance around the pumps, and reporters are reporting the happy dance, little is being reported about OPEC's plans to keep cutting production and they will until they get prices back up where they want them to be. The average family is so far behind they will never get caught up. Jeff Wilson has an interesting book just out called The Manhattan Project of 2009. I heard him on a radio talk show interview and he blew me out of the water. I got his book on Amazon. I think we are going about this whole thing wrong. WE keep spending billions on bailouts and stimulus checks. Why not invest in creating improved grids, infrastructures, and creating millions of badly needed new green jobs? The last stimulus package cost us 168 BILLION and did NOTHING to stimulate our economy. That would have gone a long way toward starting up alternative energy projects and creating new jobs. www.themanhattanprojectof2009.com On a lighter note , check out what they are doing in California, Go California, Go Arnold, Go Beter Place, show us http://www.freep.com/article/2008112...014/BUSINESS01NESS01

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:47 PM on 11/23/2008
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The "RIGHT WING RADIO GUYS" are saying this is the Obama Recession, but we went below 8,000 on October 10 almost a month before the election and hit 7,882!
So this is simply a continuation of the Bush&Company CRISIS.
Also, since Obama is still not in "Charge" he can not be blamed!

Simply another vote of NO CONFIDENCE" for Bush&Company due to their inability to clean up the mess they made!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:15 PM on 11/20/2008
- FogBelter I'm a Fan of FogBelter 293 fans permalink
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Oh, this is nothing ... the Markets are going to head south Big Time. We haven't experienced the crash yet. We have been bumping along the rapids on the way to the falls, but we aren't to the falls yet.

This is what people have to remember ... this is key. We are where we are because the Banks were allowed to consolidate their commercial and investment wings thanks to the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act in 1999. Then on top of that all banking was deregulated, the SEC was de-fanged, Hedge Funds were deregulated and Wall Street was allowed to do pretty much anything they wanted, as irresponsibly as was possible in a highly competitive way,

So what was done was massive fraud and manipulation of float and leveraging to the tune of trillions upon trillions upon trillions upon trillions upon trillions. Now the cute thing about this fraudulently generated wealth is it is intermingled with REAL wealth. So, as this massive fraudulent wealth bubble collapses it evaporates the real capital with the fake. Oh, and just for giggles, lets remember since every bank in America became an investment Bank, every depositor became an investor ... so when you look at the corporation's predicament today ... it is due to the bulk of their wealth being tied up in the collapsing bubble too ... The Corporations have invested all of their savings and are watching it go up in smoke.

Some say Dow 5000? I say DOW 1900 ... it's over.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:38 AM on 11/20/2008

And if the market rallies a 700 point?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:41 AM on 11/20/2008
- FogBelter I'm a Fan of FogBelter 293 fans permalink
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There have been big rallies every step of the way down if you look at recent history. Don't worry, there will be rallies, but it won't change the track downwards. There were rallies leading up th the Crash of '29 too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:23 AM on 11/20/2008
- DMcMillan I'm a Fan of DMcMillan 9 fans permalink
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I totally agree with your numbers. I was thinking low 2000s. And in about a year we will be looking at bottom. By that time, the DOW will the least of our worries.

"Prepare. Prepare. Prepare."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:43 PM on 11/20/2008
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I was watching the Dow today and it was clear that a lot of traders had instructions to "buy at 8000", the numbers kept bumping at 8000 and bouncing up until eventually the magic number was broken.

This is really bad news. Stand by for more big losses. My guess is that it's going to bottom out in the low 5000s before this stabilizes late next year.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:37 PM on 11/19/2008

You are out of your mind, the street has to be predicting another great depression before the dow hits 5000. There's only panic selling right now, a lot of good companies are still trading below their fundamentals, PEs are at all time low. Check the facts or at least understand them before making predictions.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:36 AM on 11/20/2008

One test of a nation's greatness is the ability of its leader or leaders to stand up in a crisis and at the very least offer encouraging words. Some call that "moral leadership." Yet here we are with a president with so little credibility he rarely emerges from his bunker. The national MSM duly reports the day's catastrophes and we absorb them until we tune in CNBC in the morning. The great national euphoria of the Obama election has been eclipsed by the most spectacular economy meltdown in my 62-year lifetime in an avalanche of more and more bad news every day. What I thought was about to become a comfortable retirement is now back to being but a dream. My stupid. I actually believed that a "balanced portfolio" was the key to happiness and have since I put my first buck into a 401(k) back in 1984. We rode the Dow with our "balanced portfolio" until last week, when we ate the hit and went to cash. And it ain't over yet. And I have yet to hear anything from anyone credible on when things might bottom, let alone turn. The new president needs the unqualified support of all Americans as he takes office and is handed the nastiest, steamiest mess ever. He absolutely must try new and very bold ideas to stop this freefall. Give him the biggest break you can and tell your Republican friends "thanks for the memories."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:32 PM on 11/19/2008

Relax, things will improve in due time. There's wide spread panic out there, the street thinks the law makers aren't capable or grasp the scope of the situation. Its a confidence thing..You right, the mistake O is making right now is siting on the side line and not working to restore the confidence such as selecting a treasure secretary even before a state secretary, you don't need diplomacy without an economy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:49 AM on 11/20/2008
- zizyphus I'm a Fan of zizyphus 110 fans permalink
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The big deals saw this crisis coming years ago, but greed is a powerful motivator."Recognizing the crucial role of banks if another financial crisis should strike, the Office of the Comptroller recently conducted an internal study of what damage a market decline would inflict on U.S. banks. The OCC declined to discuss the study or its conclusions." 1997

Now, as we add hundreds of billions of dollars to our national debt each day, our gov't hands billions to crooked corporations hand over fist, poor working people can't make their bills, jobs offshored, a tax code and legal system that benefits the wealthy, people are realizing that the system is failing. Trickle down ponzi schemes just don't cut it. The faith in our system is evaporating as the working poor realize they have been had.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:43 AM on 11/20/2008
- opines I'm a Fan of opines 30 fans permalink

Future economic historians will conclude that the current Depression began early in 2008.

By not recognizing that we are in the early stage of a deep Depression we are wasting scarce assets in a vain attempt to avert what has already begun.

Recovery can't begin until we hit bottom.

The term 'Depression' was not used after the stock market crash in 1929 until mid-1931. Like now, there was fat left around from the boom years that preceded the crash. But as unemployment persisted it had to be acknowledged as something more than a recession.

Bailouts won't work. Money spent on public works programs are a better use of tax dollars.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:25 PM on 11/19/2008

At least try to understand the term depression before you chip in. You know technically we been in a ression now depression since the 4th quater of last year, it was revised with -.4 gdp. Consequent quaters will also be revised to negatives, things have only looked good because the government and even consumers have kept spending until recently. We are an economy of consumers, negative reports bombarded by the media has led the consumers to slow down significantly. Consumer confidence was at an all time low since march, even while unemployment was about 4.8% another all time low, do you see the disconnect? All that happened last quarter was the consumer finally flexing their muscle with all the news they have been bombarded with. Now someone has to start spending or then we will really be in a long depression. It might not be sharp like the 1930s but if people start sounding like you then things could get relatively worse.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:59 AM on 11/20/2008
- zizyphus I'm a Fan of zizyphus 110 fans permalink
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People who don't have money can't spend it, unlike the federal government. Yes, people are beginning to hoard, or save money again, because they woke up from the credit induced stupor they were in. The figures the gov't provides are dubious, in my estimation, and don't reflect the real story. Of course, they aren't calling it depression, just like they call war "peacekeeping". We are soon going to have many millions of unemployed. One major terrorist event, or huge natural disaster could really screw us up now, people know that. Oh sure, the working poor can pretend everything is okay, and go out and buy a big TV, but then they wouldn't be able to buy food. You imply that if we just don't call it a depression, we can make all the bad things go away. Somehow, I don't think it will be that easy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:55 AM on 11/20/2008
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Everybody's buyin safes and pullin their money from the market. Soon them greenbacks will only be good for wipin your backside. GWB had to order more presses for the treasury cause they can't print it fast enough.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:59 PM on 11/19/2008

Im not buyin' nothin. I kinda like my own power. However, I do not take advantage of those who do not know how much power they have. I want to empower them. Unlike GWB and Mr. Cheney.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:01 PM on 11/19/2008

The DOW and the price of gold will meet somewhere between 4,000 and 5,000.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:52 PM on 11/19/2008

Gold has been down, currently at $737.60 per ounce. It was above $1,000 a few months ago, but it has been moving down since the credit crisis came to light and the stock market began these steep one-day ups and downs. Other commodities that normally go up in price in bad economic times have also moved down in value and stagnated - oil has been steadily dropping in spite of the fact that OPEC has cut production (after peaking just under $150 at the end of July, it has dropped steadily and is currently trading at $54.39 a barrel). This is proof that the sharp increases in the price of oil and gasoline over the past few years was more a product of deregulated futures trading - oil consumption in both China and India continues to rise, but the price has dropped because no one wants to tie their money up in oil futures. No one is buying commodities, choosing instead to keep their cash. It's called stagflation, and in the long run it is worse than inflation because while inflation is unpleasant, the onset of inflation precedes recovery. The longer we have stagflation, the longer and deeper the recession will be and the greater our chances of moving from recession into a depression. Thanks for all that mavericky deregulation of banks and energy markets, Senators Gramm & McSame!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:39 PM on 11/19/2008
- TAIsabel I'm a Fan of TAIsabel 57 fans permalink
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Well said and explained, particularly the oil price "mirage" that was created by speculation. I never believed the demand argument, it was way too similar to the "energy crisis" in California created by Enron. Today, for the first time since 1947, prices fell by 1% accross the board. We are in a serious recession. Intially it was considered we would be in a stagflationary period however, the "inflation" side of this equation appears to be less of a threat with the worlwide meltdown.
The last serious stagflation was during the 70's when our interest rates reached the high teens, oil prices were sky high (for the time) and we had double digit unemployment mostly as a result of a ruinous foreign policy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:59 PM on 11/19/2008

The scary thing is the next low will be compared to 1997 or thereabouts as 2003 was the low after the tech bubble burst. So hold on to your hat as its gong to be a fast ride from 2003-1997 (a 6 year hop IF the Dow goes down anymore.).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:30 PM on 11/19/2008

But, the American people are richer with knowledge. That is what is going to change. We are smarter now than we were in 1997. At least, I know I am.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:31 PM on 11/19/2008
- TAIsabel I'm a Fan of TAIsabel 57 fans permalink
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From now on, I suggest we refer to these "bubbles" as "boils" that, when lanced, spew death and destruction. Bubbles conjures up visions of soap bubbles on a summer afternoon.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:36 PM on 11/19/2008
- TAIsabel I'm a Fan of TAIsabel 57 fans permalink
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Am I the only one that would like some of these people that got us here made accountable? Heads need to roll at AIG, Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, GM, Ford, The Bush Junta. Will we ever see an Enron type trial for these criminals? AIG goes on lavish retreats, the heads of the car companies show up to DC on their private jets, Dick Fuld will not even answer questions about his disproportionate compensation, the list grows by the day.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:29 PM on 11/19/2008

Right now, I want to focus on the future. And the future involves all of us. If we want change, it will happen.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:05 PM on 11/19/2008
- TAIsabel I'm a Fan of TAIsabel 57 fans permalink
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Granted, I agree the future should be our main concern but one of the reasons we find ourselves in this hell hole is the lack of accountability which emboldens the criminals and fails to set an example. The system has "root rot", we need to pull out those roots and start fresh. The mindset that has taken root over the last 30 years has to be changed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:12 PM on 11/19/2008
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I'm with TAIsabel. In the future, I want justice, among other changes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:39 AM on 11/20/2008
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The bailout is not working.

The bailout is only dragging out the pain.

Dennis Kucinich was right. Ralph Nader was right.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:22 PM on 11/19/2008
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the House Republicans was right too
and a few (R) senators
too bad John McCain wasn't one of them

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:24 PM on 11/19/2008

The House Republicans was stupid. They do not give s*** about the American worker in this country. They want no government. Then they would be out of a job. What an oxymoron.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:29 PM on 11/19/2008
- TAIsabel I'm a Fan of TAIsabel 57 fans permalink
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In correct grammar now: the House Republicans WERE right, not WAS. Have a good night!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:00 PM on 11/19/2008
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Why did we vote the people who voted for the bailout back in Washington?
Why are the Dems are so in a rush to give Bush the bailout?
Why is Barney Frank not in jail?
spam, its what for dinner

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:18 PM on 11/19/2008

Because they would have taken it anyway. The Dems have the power now, well at least on Jan 20. Hell, let them eat cake now. They will be eating something a little more serious later.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:19 PM on 11/19/2008
- GypsyRose I'm a Fan of GypsyRose 62 fans permalink

The Dems had the power since 2006.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:34 PM on 11/19/2008
- HST I'm a Fan of HST 59 fans permalink
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TheJibreelaMonsters : Why did we vote the people who voted for the bailout back in Washington?
Why are the Dems are so in a rush to give Bush the bailout?
Why is Barney Frank not in jail?


The question is why are you not on medication?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:42 AM on 11/20/2008

George W. Bush....Apres nous le Deluge...Let them eat cake!! Oh my God we will pay for these 8 years...Thanks you rethugs....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:03 PM on 11/19/2008
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Bush done all he could to scave this off while Barney Frank and CO gooned up the housing market

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:12 PM on 11/19/2008
- TAIsabel I'm a Fan of TAIsabel 57 fans permalink
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AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHH!!!!! Grab yourself by the ears and pull your head out of your ass!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:15 PM on 11/19/2008

Yeah right...you write like Bush governs...like guys with an IQ of 90...do you write Bush's speeches???

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:22 PM on 11/19/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 266 fans permalink
    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:51 PM on 11/19/2008
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