Stocks tumble for second day; Treasurys surge

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TIM PARADIS and SARA LEPRO | November 20, 2008 07:12 PM EST | AP

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A pair of stuffed dice hangs from a monitor on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange as traders leave for the day,Thursday, Nov. 20, 2008. Stocks plunged for a second straight day Thursday, falling to a ranges not seen in six years as financial and energy stocks tumbled and as demand for the safety of government debt spiked to historic levels. (AP Photo/Richard Drew)

NEW YORK — Stocks plunged for a second straight day Thursday, falling to levels not seen in at least five years, as financial and energy stocks tumbled while demand for the safety of government debt spiked.

Wall Street saw the most intense selling late in the session after hopes faded that lawmakers would quickly assemble an aid package for U.S. automakers, and as the Standard & Poor's 500 index broke through lows established in 2002. That breach of a key technical threshold sent a shudder through the market and touched off further selling.

The S&P 500 index fell 6.7 percent to its lowest close since April 1997. The Dow Jones industrial average, meanwhile, fell 445 points, or 5.6 percent, to its lowest close since March 2003. The decline brings the Dow's two-day drop to 873 points, or 10.6 percent, its worst two-day percentage loss since October 1987.

Financial stocks plunged on worries that the government's financial rescue won't be sufficient to cover banks' losses. Meanwhile, a sharp drop in oil prices weighed heavily on energy companies.

Thursday's pullback came amid heavy volume, a welcome sign for some investors who are looking for the market to experience a cathartic sell-off that could lay the groundwork for a recovery. Heavier volume can signal investors are scared enough to sell rather than simply sit on the sidelines, which can result in relatively light volume.

Observers said the selling highlighted the entrenched pessimism about the prospects for the economy.

"Unrelenting gloom has taken over the markets," said Dana Johnson, chief economist at Comerica Inc. "The economic news, the concerns about some major financial institutions, the concerns about the auto sector, earnings reports, everything is coming out in a way that is just provoking a massive selling in the stock market."

"Back in October we were looking at a potential catastrophic meltdown of the credit markets, and that didn't happen," he said. "But that doesn't mean tremendous damage hasn't been done to the economy."

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Those worries about the economy sent the Dow down 444.99, or 5.56 percent, to 7,552.29. It was the biggest percentage drop for the blue chips since Oct. 22 and the Dow's lowest close since March 12, 2003.

Broader stock indicators also showed huge declines. The Standard & Poor's 500 index fell 54.14, or 6.71 percent, to 752.44, below the closing low of 776.76 logged on Oct. 9, 2002, to its lowest close since April 14, 1997.

The Nasdaq composite index fell 70.30, or 5.07 percent, to 1,316.12.

The Russell 2000 index of smaller companies fell 27.07, or 6.56 percent, to 385.31.

Declining issues outnumbered advancers by more than 10 to 1 on the New York Stock Exchange, where consolidated volume came to 8.96 billion shares, the heaviest level since the 11.20 billion seen on Oct. 10.

Jon Biele, head of capital markets at Cowen & Co., said investors are bracing for more bad news.

"The view on the floor is nobody is sure what the next stop is," he said. "I think the market is expecting another shoe to drop."

"Some people think this is the capitulation we've been waiting for," he said. "All along we've been hoping for a real violent sell-off and the end of the day today was a pretty dramatic move."

Bond prices showed stunning advances as investors clamored for the safety of government debt, sending Treasury yields to multiyear lows as fears about the auto industry make it hard for credit markets to function.

The yield on the benchmark 10-year Treasury note sank to 3.00 percent, the lowest point since 1958. The 30-year bond's yield fell to 3.46 percent _ the lowest since the government started issuing the bond in 1977. The yield on the 2-year note, meanwhile, fell to 0.97 percent _ the lowest since 1947, according to Global Financial Data in Los Angeles.

Stocks rose briefly during the session on hopes that Washington would agree to help Detroit's Big Three. But Democratic leaders in Congress delayed a vote on bailing out the auto industry until December and are asking General Motors, Ford and Chrsyler to present a plan to show how the $25 billion cash injection they have sought would be used.

Investors who have been groping for a bottom to the yearlong market rout have been worried that Washington's disagreements over whether to bail out the auto industry could lead to bankruptcies that would cascade into other industries and throw perhaps millions of workers out of work.

Automakers advanced on hopes that a deal might eventually be reached. General Motors Corp. rose 9 cents, or 3.2 percent, to $2.88, while Ford Motor Co. rose 13 cents, or 10.3 percent, to $1.39. Chrysler LLC isn't publicly traded.

Analysts said the worries about the automakers are only one of many concerns for the market. Biele noted that anxiety over Citigroup Inc.'s stability also battered stocks.

Citigroup tumbled below $5 a share Thursday _ their lowest level in more than 15 years, after investors found little solace in a Saudi prince's decision to boost his stake in the bank to 5 percent. The move failed to galvanize confidence among increasingly anxious investors concerned that Citigroup, which has racked up more than $20 billion in losses over the past four quarters, will post another large loss in the fourth quarter.

Citigroup fell $1.69, or 26 percent, to close at $4.71, and was the biggest decliner among the 30 stocks that make up the blue chips. Other financials showed big drops. JPMorgan Chase & Co. fell $5.09, or 18 percent, to $23.38, and Bank of America Corp. fell $1.81, or 14 percent, to $11.25.

Meanwhile, energy stocks fell sharply as oil tumbled $4 to settle at $49.62 on the New York Mercantile Exchange. Chesapeake Energy Corp. fell $5.32, or 28 percent, to $13.98, while Marathon Oil Corp. fell $4.53, or 19 percent, to $19.58.

Gus Scacco, managing director at AG Asset Management, said investors can't manage to regain confidence as the market continues to plumb new depths.

"We're trying to make a bottom but we keep breaking through," he said.

Wall Street found added room for concern as new claims for unemployment benefits climbed to a 16-year high. The Labor Department reported earlier Thursday that new applications for jobless benefits rose to a seasonally adjusted 542,000 last week from a downwardly revised figure of 515,000 in the previous week. That is well above economists' expectations of 505,000, according to a survey by Thomson Reuters.

"When you look at the typical forecast being produced by economists, they weren't writing down weak enough numbers and I think people are starting to understand with greater clarity just how deep this recession is going to be," Comerica's Johnson said.

The dollar rose against most major currencies but fell against the yen, while gold rose.

Overseas, Japan's Nikkei stock average fell 6.9 percent, while Hong Kong's Hang Seng Index slid 4.04 percent. Britain's FTSE 100 fell 3.26 percent, Germany's DAX index fell 3.08 percent, and France's CAC-40 fell 3.48 percent.

___

On the Net:

New York Stock Exchange: http://www.nyse.com

Nasdaq Stock Market: http://www.nasdaq.com

(This version CORRECTS 10-year Treasury note low)

NEW YORK — Stocks plunged for a second straight day Thursday, falling to levels not seen in at least five years, as financial and energy stocks tumbled while demand for the safety of government ...
NEW YORK — Stocks plunged for a second straight day Thursday, falling to levels not seen in at least five years, as financial and energy stocks tumbled while demand for the safety of government ...
 
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THE AMERICAN AUTO INDUSTRY IS A DINOSAUR........THEY USE THE OLD 70'S CHASIS TO BUILD SUVS AND OLD ENGINE BLOCKS WITH NEW NAMES AND SOME BLING BLING.THEN CALL THEM NEW.......GRANTED.......NEW AND OLD ARE BOTH 3 LETTER WORDS THOUGH THEY WILL NEVER MEAN THE SAME THE SAME THING .. INLESS OF COURSE YOU TAKE THE MEANING OF BAD AS GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IN THE CAR BUS CRAP IS JUNK!!!!!!!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:23 AM on 11/21/2008

My mouth dropped open this morning while watching a commercial on a morning news show. GM actually had a commerical running for a newly revamped Hummer pick-up. WTF! These yahoos are going to ask for a bailout, and the best they bring to the market is a new HUMMER!! This is unbelievable. Send these idiots packing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:02 AM on 11/21/2008
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The possible collapse of the auto industry is a tangential reason for what is occurring on Wall Street. None of the fat cats are going to mouth these words:

"We spent the last 9, unregulated, avarice driven, years creating a monstrous financial pyramid scheme, designed to produce massive short term quarterly profits at the expense of long term economic stability and solvency, and that pyramid has sucked in capital from throughout the world economy, and that pyramid is in the process of rapid collapse, and we have no strategy, tools, or ability to stop it."

You won't hear those words from anyone of authority in Business or Government ... but that doesn't mean they aren't thinking it every day.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:47 AM on 11/21/2008
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Nintendo players manipulates DOW and not reflection of the true financial performances

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:02 AM on 11/21/2008

The stock market is like a fickle teenager. The whole system needs to be redesigned to stop exaggerated rises and falls for no apparent reason, or because of rumours, or because of bad publicity etc etc

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 AM on 11/21/2008

Well, at least the bailout of the bankers, the richest charlatans who do not produce anything, succeeded. They got 30 times what automakers asked for, no problem, full support of Mr Obama.

0.7 Trillion dollars for the richest parasites with 600K/y salaries and have been milking the public for a long time? YES

25B to support millions of jobs and manufactoring? NO

even worse (read the following):
"The spokesman for the American Heart Association said he cannot fathom why the administration has recommended eliminating a $1.5 million program that provides defibrillators to rural communities and trains local personnel on how to use the machines to restart hearts that go into cardiac arrest."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:09 AM on 11/21/2008

The spokesman of the American Heart Association does not seem to know that hearts can not be "restarted" or, much more likely, is rather careless with his language. A defibrillator can do nothing for a heart without electrical activity. All it can do is to de-fibrillate, i.e. bring the heart out of a very rapid cycle of contractions. The web page of the AHA gets it right, though.

Having said that... I simply do not get what any of that has to do with the automobile industry or the bailout. There are any number of ways how we also could have spent that money. Installing defibrillators all over the place is only one out of any number of other uses imaginable and if you ask three interest groups you will get seven different answers. And any and all causes are equally important, at least in the minds of the people who support them. Ask me and I will tell you that I would like us to launch a crawler/balloon mission to Titan ASAP at a cost of probably less than $5 billion.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:15 AM on 11/21/2008

The failure of the bailout had NOTHING to do with the dumping of stock!

Americans are wising up that we are in trouble and we need cash to buy food and shelter.

That's what we have come down to.

Did you think that wasting money on stuff would last forever?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:43 AM on 11/21/2008

OEX (S&P 100) is a very important index.

Close today? 367.

Spike lows in 2002: 384.

Closing lows in 2002: 407.

*****************************************************

NDX (Nasdaq 100)

Spike HIGH in 2000? 4800

Todays close, 8 lonngg years later: 1036.

NDX is so far off it's 2000 highs my nose starts bleeding when I look at the chart. But even at it's BEST since the spike highs of 2000, which was Oct of last year, NDX had only retraced approx 36%. Think about that one. At-it's-best, it had only retraced 36%.

And yet, remember what the VERY uninformed republinuts were spouting re: the market the past 7 years.

Not to mention their ' buy the dips' dippy mantra.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:01 AM on 11/21/2008

The repugs always worry about paying taxes. Given whats going on I'm hoping to still be pay taxes. Those paying lots of taxes will be the lucky ones.

When I had my advanced degrees in Chemistry and it was at the end of Vietnam and there were no jobs in the sciences, so I became a CPA. In my tax class the instructor said he hoped he paid 100K in Taxes a year... Of course within a year of becoming a CPA with the efffects of the Vitenam war and we were in another recession. And CPA firms were then not hiring.. Then again in 1980 things turned to crap. I had friends who had been doing well living in their cars. Then in the late 1980s, Reagan Economics trippled the national debt and it started again... Then the BUSH years! I'm running out of time and would like some peace. my retirement just went down the tubes.

Regards

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:40 PM on 11/20/2008

I have a small forest. When caring for it I do as my great grandfather taught me: when a disease hits one type of timber, cut it out and replant with diversified species so we are protected. I am for keeping the wheels of commerce turning, but hope we don"t take our eye off of investing in important seminal issues, like the health and education of our nation. A healthy and intelligent workforce will fuel the total economy better over the long haul. I wouldn't invest in a diseased forest. Instead, I would look at the future crops and ensure they are well fortified.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:29 PM on 11/20/2008

Well, what we know about a forest is that if you completely clear a forest area, it will take many times longer to come back and you have errosion. Out MFG forest has already been over cleared. If our auto MFGs go it will be like clear cutting a forrest. And by the way with our free trade mentality, any seedlings that happen to sprout will be left unprotected and quickly die off.

Regards

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:44 PM on 11/20/2008

Toyota and Honda can plant new plants (pun!) in less than two years. Give them $25 billion to make small cars in the US and forget about the lame three.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:17 AM on 11/21/2008

Whatever Obama does, a persons physical labor needs to be restored to a modicum of respectability and it needs to enable a person to make a decent living. Laborers are little more than slaves now while scum sitting in front of computers manipulating numbers make millions. It's wrong.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:11 PM on 11/20/2008

Then tip your garbage man $50,000 this Christmas.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:14 PM on 11/20/2008

I would need a bailout to do that, smartass

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:21 PM on 11/20/2008

If he would haul out the garbage in the White House I would!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:28 PM on 11/20/2008

There is nothing honorable about physical labor. All it shows is that the person failed in school.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:19 AM on 11/21/2008
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Sure there is if you are making 30 bucks an hour. At one time the U.S. used to manufacture half the world's goods - now it makes a Case Brothers pocket knife and a few other items. You can go to school all you wish for a great low paying service sector job with a credit card which keeps the trade deficit rising as well as the National Debt. But at some point if you don't manufacture more than you import -- the nation collapses. And so much for your service sector jobby-pooh.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:53 AM on 11/21/2008
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CAUSE: "CRISIS OF FINANCIAL FEES"
(including salaries, bonuses, and parachutes)

FEES by Banks and INVESTMENT BANKS:

1. $10's to $100's Million in salaries, bonuses, and other incomes
2. Incrementally High "TRICKY" adjustable mortgage Fees for subsidiaries of Investment Banks
3. High Second Mortgage Fees above property values
4. "Fake" Appraisal Fees
5. Selling loans that exceed value of the property with MORE Fees added
6. Slice and Dice mortgages into packages (Derivatives) by Banks for "MASSIVE" Added Fees
7. Rating Agency Assigns "AAA" rating to High Risk Derivatives and takes Large Fees
8. Sell Derivatives to Customers including HIGH Fees
9. Front end and Back End Insurance Fees
10. Financial Product Maintenance and Customer Service Fees

Note: The Reason Banks will not MARK TO MARKET and want that removed:

With decline in home values some products now would take a 80% tp 90% write-off of the Fees paid by Derivatives Clients, showing the "degree of greed" in this FEE driven system.

At least this LEVEL of CORRUPTION has not hit the Auto Industry! So lets save millions of Blue, Green, and white collar jobs!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:55 PM on 11/20/2008

Everyone should just cool down a bit, breathe deeply, and relax. Right now the country is in transition with no direction, no leadership, and a rotten stomach after Bush's debacle. Investors should be putting their money into treasuries so that when Obama takes over and gives us a direction for development and investment there will be money available--and also, remember that all these bailouts cost money and that money has to be borrowed. It's not like the US has all those billions sitting around somewhere.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:41 PM on 11/20/2008

What's funniest (in a sad, sick way) is seeing all these flag pin wearing fat cats with their hypocritical hands out begging for bailouts

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:06 PM on 11/20/2008

It would be funny, but they will not undergo foreclosures. Their kids will get Christmas gifts and still make it to the best colleges this year... that cant be said for the 3 million workers in the auto industry and 20 million others.

Regards.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:42 PM on 11/20/2008

Good riddance to their polluting, mother-earth raping jobs. Let them build windmills and farm organic squash. That will teach those fat-cat execs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:17 PM on 11/20/2008

This is getting to look like a put-on by the corporate Elite to keep fleecing the public of more Billions at every turn.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:06 PM on 11/20/2008

A country can be sacked by things other than armies.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:25 PM on 11/20/2008

Idiocy would be one of those.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:20 AM on 11/21/2008

good point. markets are manipulated and someone is out there making money off of this situation.

i'm finally done with stock market. was a hard lesson, but i finally get it. and these "experts" who say just ride it out? well, who do you think they are making their money off of? they are just as parasitic. obviously they want you to sit tight - how else would they collect their fees to pay their bills?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:54 AM on 11/21/2008
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