Stock market doesn't flinch despite economic data

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JEANNINE AVERSA | November 25, 2008 05:26 PM EST | AP

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President-elect Barack Obama appears on a television screen on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, Tuesday Nov. 25, 2008. (AP Photo/Richard Drew)

WASHINGTON — Bad news was no news to the battered American economy Tuesday.

The government released a triple dose of discouraging data: The economy shrank over the summer even more than previously believed, and consumers reduced their spending by the largest amount in 28 years. During the same period, home prices fell to levels not seen since early 2004.

"Consumers and businesses were like deer in the headlights ... frozen," said economist Ken Mayland, president of ClearView Economics.

Most of the numbers were updates of previously released figures, and the revisions indicated that economic conditions were growing worse.

But Wall Street barely flinched and actually recorded its third straight day of gains, something that had not happened since the financial meltdown began almost 2 1/2 months ago. The Dow Jones industrials closed up 36 points, following a two-day rally in which the major indexes soared more than 11 percent.

The updated reading on the economy's performance from the Commerce Department showed the gross domestic product shrank at a 0.5 percent annual rate in the July-September quarter.

That was weaker than the 0.3 percent rate of decline first estimated a month ago, and it marked the worst showing since the economy contracted at a 1.4 percent pace in the third quarter of 2001, when terrorists attacked the U.S. and the nation was suffering through its last recession.

GDP measures the value of all goods and services produced within the U.S. and is considered the best barometer of the country's economic fitness.

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The new GDP figure matched economists' expectations, but nevertheless underscored just how quickly the economy deteriorated as the housing and credit crisis intensified. The economy logged growth of 2.8 percent in the second quarter.

White House press secretary Dana Perino called the lower GDP figure "troubling" and said $800 billion in new government efforts announced Tuesday should help spur more consumer spending by expanding the availability of loans and credit cards at cheaper rates.

Meanwhile, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. said the list of banks it considers to be in trouble shot up nearly 50 percent to 171 during the third quarter _ the highest level since late 1995.

The FDIC also said that commercial banks and savings institutions suffered a 94 percent drop in third-quarter profits to $1.7 billion. Except for the fourth quarter of 2007, it was the lowest profit since the fourth quarter of 1990.

The FDIC does not reveal the institutions on its "troubled" list, but on average, about 13 percent of them end up failing.

Nine banks failed in the third quarter, reducing the FDIC's deposit insurance fund to $34.6 billion from $45.2 billion in the second quarter. Both figures are below the target minimum level set by Congress.

Twenty-two banks have failed so far this year compared with three for all of 2007, and more failures are expected.

Elsewhere, the New York-based Conference Board said its Consumer Confidence Index for November rose to 44.9, from a revised 38.8 in October. Last month's reading was the lowest since the research group started tracking the index in 1967, and Americans' views on the economy remain the gloomiest in decades as they grapple with massive layoffs, slumping home prices and dwindling retirement funds.

To revive the economy, President-elect Barack Obama says a top priority will be working with Congress to enact a massive stimulus package that he says will generate millions of new jobs.

The new, lower third-quarter GDP reading mostly reflected an even sharper cutback in spending by consumers and slower sales growth of U.S. exports.

American consumers _ the lifeblood of the economy _ slashed spending in the third quarter at a 3.7 percent pace. That was deeper than the 3.1 percent cut initially reported and marked the biggest reduction since the second quarter of 1980, when the country was in the grip of recession.

Consumers have grown nervous about spending because of job losses, declining investment portfolios and sinking home values.

Underscoring the strain, the report showed that Americans' disposable income fell at an annual rate of 9.2 percent in the third quarter, the largest quarterly drop on records dating back to 1947. The government's initial estimate had showed a record 8.7 percent decline in disposable income for the quarter.

Sales of U.S. exports grew at a 3.4 percent pace in the third quarter. That was lower than a 5.9 percent growth rate initially estimated and marked a sharp slowdown from the second quarter's blistering 12.3 percent growth rate. The deceleration reflects less demand from overseas buyers coping with their own economic problems.

Home builders slashed spending at a 17.6 percent pace, marking the 11th straight quarterly cut and fresh evidence of the depth of the housing slump.

Also Tuesday, a report on home prices and downbeat earnings results from homebuilder D.R. Horton showed further deterioration in the housing market. The Standard & Poor's/Case-Shiller U.S. National Home Price Index said that home prices tumbled a record 16.6 percent during the third quarter from the same period a year ago. Prices are at levels not seen since the first quarter of 2004.

Fort Worth, Tex.-based D.R. Horton Inc. reported a nearly $800 million loss in its fiscal fourth quarter on slower home sales and more than $1 billion in charges amid a battered housing market.

To help revive the economy, the Federal Reserve is expected to lower interest rates when its meets on Dec. 16, its last session of the year. Last month, the Fed dropped its key rate to 1 percent, a level seen only once before in the last half-century.

So far, though, the Fed's rate reductions _ a $700 billion financial bailout package and a flurry of other radical actions _ have been unable to break though a dangerous credit clog, restore stability to financial markets and help the sinking economy.

The nation's unemployment rate is at 6.5 percent, a 14-year high, and is expected to climb. Employers have cut payrolls every month so far this year. The total number of unemployed in October was just over 10 million, the most in 25 years.

Given all the bad news, consumers are likely to make still more cuts, probably ensuring that the economy continues to shrink for the remainder of 2008 and into 2009.

WASHINGTON — Bad news was no news to the battered American economy Tuesday. The government released a triple dose of discouraging data: The economy shrank over the summer even more than previou...
WASHINGTON — Bad news was no news to the battered American economy Tuesday. The government released a triple dose of discouraging data: The economy shrank over the summer even more than previou...
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"economy continues to shrink for the remainder of 2008 (and into 2009)" -- given that there are only five weeks left in 2008 that is not very powerful or gutsy forecasting

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:12 AM on 11/26/2008
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Stock market hasn't flinched because there's a new round of "bailouts" coming..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:00 PM on 11/25/2008
- GHENT007 I'm a Fan of GHENT007 6 fans permalink
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If barak obama does this for the american middle class we will be considered the greatest president of all time!!!!EVER!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:08 PM on 11/25/2008
- GHENT007 I'm a Fan of GHENT007 6 fans permalink
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THE MONEY IS BETTER SPENT IN THE HANDS OF ACTUAL AMERICANS!! INSTEAD OF THE BANKS AND CORPORATIONS!!! GIVE THE 800 BILLION DIRECTLY TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DIRECTLY!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:45 PM on 11/25/2008
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It would certainly do wonders for the economy and, I'm sure, far cheaper and far more effective than the pillaging that's going on right now...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:01 PM on 11/25/2008
- GHENT007 I'm a Fan of GHENT007 6 fans permalink
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Now cnn announced another 800 billion dollar bail-out for americans but the money goes to the banks and the banks wont loan anyone money with 'BAD CREDIT" most of the people cant qualify for a loan from the banks tight credit rules, most have been unemployed and this will appear on their reports again not allowing them the get the loans they need to resolve the economic problems they face, so the bail out wont help anyone but the rich, the middle class is on the outside looking in sorta like winthorp in "trading places" looked at eddie murphy sitting with the "wall street" big shots having dinner, meanwhile the american middle class will continue to suffer, because the rules, that the banks and the corporations have set up, automatically kick out those among us with a low credit score, the ones who need help the most are those among us with low credit scores, so therefore, the money should be given directly to the people in the form of a check from the treasury for 100,000 dollars this infusion of cash directly will restore millions of americans credit billions of dollars of past due bills will be paid, past due house notes will be paid, and hundreds of thousands of dollars will be deposited into the failing banks, in turn, this will loosen the "tight credit" since the billions deposited by americans will restore the banks ability to lend money again, this solves some of the problems.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:40 PM on 11/25/2008
- GHENT007 I'm a Fan of GHENT007 6 fans permalink
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OK ,a Quick solution to our economic problems, every american if you owe taxes or not, the federal goverment cuts every american a check for 100,000 dollars, this would allow for americans to pay back taxes if owed, to catch up on house payments, to pay college tuition, and to start new business's which in turn brings more money back to the government in the form of tax payments from new business income, in turn it supports the banks because the new deposits will boost the banks ability to loan money, and quite frankly is the actual solution to our economic problems.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:48 PM on 11/25/2008
- Samalabear I'm a Fan of Samalabear 66 fans permalink
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A small portion of this would wipe my slate clean and then I could put a down payment and own the home that I have been renting for over 20 years. It costs me over $2000 a month and this money would also enable me to rent a nice moderate space to my now-sideline business (I can't afford to attempt to run it full time because of, of course, no funds to do so). I don't have a good credit score. It's been damaged in the past by job loss due to no fault of my own, but lack of sudden lack of work due to freezes put in place by the Feds at one time. This also created back-tax problems for me. There's a lot of people like me out there. We haven't gotten extra credit -- we live by cash and debit card. I don't buy what I don't have money for. Even with cash like this I would try to stay as credit-free as possible. Credit is too expensive and the banks too tricky.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:17 PM on 11/25/2008
- DIAGUY I'm a Fan of DIAGUY 7 fans permalink

That would be far too easy , and successful. The government must let the people hit 'rock bottom' , create a 'program' and enroll as many people as possible. Then feed them a few bucks 'with a spoon' , tell them things are horrible and that they are not likely to improve anytime soon. Then instruct this group of 'sheeple' to reelect them because the evil opposition will probably let them starve....­.........w­elcome to slavery

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:38 PM on 11/25/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 239 fans permalink
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19 posts on this page alone from SailFree. I suspect too much coffee.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:32 PM on 11/25/2008
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Coupled with the inability to produce an original thought...­..A veritable fountain of rei ch wing talking points.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:45 PM on 11/25/2008
- MIMom I'm a Fan of MIMom 109 fans permalink
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He is truly Brain Free. I told him that he needs to pick up a brain on Friday. I'm sure someone will have a good deal on them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:19 PM on 11/25/2008
- Raster I'm a Fan of Raster 23 fans permalink

The Obama Administration will be overwhelmed by "problem" banks, "problem" insurance companies, "problem" bankruptcies both commercial and personal, and the rapid evaporation of jobs. Ain't seen bad yet.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:27 PM on 11/25/2008
- SailFree I'm a Fan of SailFree 29 fans permalink

"That was weaker than the 0.3 percent rate of decline first estimated a month ago, and marked the worst showing since the economy contracted at a 1.4 percent pace in the third quarter of 2001, when the nation was suffering through its last recession.­"

And how did we get out of THAT recession? I do believe it was TAX CUTS, the ones that Obama planned to rescind and/or let expire. How would one expect THAT to work out...???

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:13 PM on 11/25/2008
- Chillinout I'm a Fan of Chillinout 125 fans permalink
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You believe wrong.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:17 PM on 11/25/2008
- SailFree I'm a Fan of SailFree 29 fans permalink

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122705663771939523.html

Not a bad piece. I love the photo caption: "Obama is taken for a ride by the UAW..."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:55 PM on 11/25/2008

About a year ago I noticed that every time a new construction project began it would turn out to be another bank. My husband and I started joking about it. They all have similar names like First this and Federal that. I counted 35 banks in my town of 50,000. This seemed out of whack when I remembered that there were only 2 banks in my town growing up (12,000 people). How many banks does one town need? Every time a construction project started I would hope that it was something fun like a roller rink or a drive through grocery store but no it was just another bank.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:47 PM on 11/25/2008
- Raster I'm a Fan of Raster 23 fans permalink

But you should understand that, in the world of banking, especially investment bankers now in total control of the US Government, one can never have "enough" banks!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:41 PM on 11/25/2008
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I need to brush up on socialism because corporate bailouts, tax cuts of any kind, war-profiteering, no-bid contracts and record breaking oil company revenues are not working for me anymore.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:28 PM on 11/25/2008
- SailFree I'm a Fan of SailFree 29 fans permalink

The oil companies, with those revenues, could investigate new energy sources, explore for more here, and otherwise accomplish considerable good. To confiscate those revenues and then believe government bureaucrats, many of whom are career political lawyers, would know how to spend the money more wisely would be the height of stupidity and wishful thinking.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:00 PM on 11/25/2008
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To believe that oil companies are working or would work toward the greater good is beyond the pale of stupidity, it's down right laughable.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:13 PM on 11/25/2008
- SailFree I'm a Fan of SailFree 29 fans permalink

The current problem was CAUSED by left-wing political and economic principles, as perpetuated by both parties.

It will not be cured by more hair of the dog.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122705663771939523.html

Obama's only hope is to channel the ghost of Ronald Reagan...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:53 PM on 11/25/2008
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We HAD been channeling the ghost of Reagan....

On Nov. 4th, we gave the Country an exorcism.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:04 PM on 11/25/2008
- SailFree I'm a Fan of SailFree 29 fans permalink

Nah--Reagan's principles were abandoned long ago. Obama will have to revive them to be successful. Does he have the cojones?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:56 PM on 11/25/2008
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deregulation of financial institutions and encouragement of debt as a tradeed commodity is not a left wing economic principle. It's a purely right wing idea. Otherwise, aside from the actual facts, I agree with you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:05 PM on 11/25/2008
- SailFree I'm a Fan of SailFree 29 fans permalink

The deregulating was done, quite correctly, by Bill Clinton. He has stated clearly and explicitly that deregulation was NOT the problem. He has pointed out that the more regulated institutions are the ones that collapsed the fastest.

It was government OVERREGULATION, the mandating--ordering under threat of law--of insolvent loans that was the problem. Congress REGULATED banks and ACORN blackmailed banks into making unwise loans. THAT was the root of the problem.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:16 PM on 11/25/2008
- SailFree I'm a Fan of SailFree 29 fans permalink

One should note that Franklin Raines, of Fannie Mae, was NOT a Republican. Neither was the head of Lehman Brothers. Neither was the head of Merrill-Lynch. And on and on..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:17 PM on 11/25/2008
- SCG I'm a Fan of SCG 111 fans permalink
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RR philosophy has driven us into this ditch of debt and decline.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:07 PM on 11/25/2008
- soapington I'm a Fan of soapington 42 fans permalink
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If Barack Obama had the ability to channel ghosts, I can think of many, many ghosts he could usefully channel before he got to Ronald Reagan. Besides, we can all channel the best of Ronald Reagan on old movie channels.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:51 PM on 11/25/2008
- AmandaBC I'm a Fan of AmandaBC 577 fans permalink
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"Obama's only hope is to channel the ghost of Ronald Reagan..."

More like to curse him...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:19 PM on 11/25/2008
- SailFree I'm a Fan of SailFree 29 fans permalink

"Barack Obama warns nation of sacrifice ahead"
--LA Times

What?!!! You mean he is NOT CAPABLE OF MIRACLES?!!

Then what's with "The One" and "The Messiah" schticks? I fear the people who thought we would have cheap gasoline, easy credit, bushels of new jobs, and all the other pie-in-sky items are going to be sorely disappointed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:27 PM on 11/25/2008
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Razor blades are in isle 5.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:30 PM on 11/25/2008
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Disappointed? That started eight years ago.

We're already in the grief stage and headed toward acceptance and healing. So sorry to leave you behind.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:34 PM on 11/25/2008
- SailFree I'm a Fan of SailFree 29 fans permalink

Well, really TWO years ago, 2006, when the Democrats took over congress. Things were not that bad before that. Since, we have had plans to let tax cuts expire, obstruction of offshore and ANWR drilling, and of course the plans to privatize Social Security were blocked from the get-go. Reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was blocked in 2005.

We have had nothing but wrong-headedness on the part of Democrats from the beginning, reflexively opposing anything Bush proposed. It has led to this current situation.

I suspect that Obama will be FORCED to propose many of the same fixes Bush proposed. Perhaps Democrats will not obstruct Obama, which will give him a fighting chance to improve the situation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:56 PM on 11/25/2008
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Not as disappointed as those troops who went into Iraq believing that they'd begreeted as liberators­... talk about hoping for a miracle.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:47 PM on 11/25/2008
- SailFree I'm a Fan of SailFree 29 fans permalink

There was SOME reason to believe that. It had happened in Afghanista­n...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:51 PM on 11/25/2008
- SailFree I'm a Fan of SailFree 29 fans permalink

I do note the total lack of SUBSTANTIVE discussion.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:58 PM on 11/25/2008
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Also noted is the same lack of substantive discussion from you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:06 PM on 11/25/2008
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Come up with something other than regurgitated platitudes culled from radio demagogues & you might GET a substantive discussion.

Meanwhile, you'll continue to be held up to the RIDICULE you deserve.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:06 PM on 11/25/2008
- abby4ever I'm a Fan of abby4ever 239 fans permalink
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Hello? You write a post about 'miracles' and 'the me.ssiah' and 'the one' and follow that with a complaint about 'the total lack of substantive discussion'? I hardly know what to say other than you have just made yourself look totally ri.diculou­s.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:20 PM on 11/25/2008
- Hirnlego I'm a Fan of Hirnlego 113 fans permalink
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I only hear those kinds of descriptions from the right..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:33 PM on 11/25/2008
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Time to buy real estate. I joined a buying group last month that is buying homes before they go into foreclosure. Saves the homeowners fico and we are getting desert properties that sold for $750,000 last year for $450,000.

At first the idea seemed unsavory to me but I think it helps everyone.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:13 PM on 11/25/2008
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I have property I'm trying to sell -- you wanna buy?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:18 PM on 11/25/2008
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Are you in the Coachella Valley?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:21 PM on 11/25/2008
- 957 I'm a Fan of 957 13 fans permalink

Always some that make good off the someone else's ,misery

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:38 PM on 11/25/2008
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Ya know! There's something karmic about that. I don't know if I'd dare touch those properties.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:42 PM on 11/25/2008
- SailFree I'm a Fan of SailFree 29 fans permalink

You speak the truth, O Wise One! Too bad the weasels bite your ankles.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:45 PM on 11/25/2008
- SailFree I'm a Fan of SailFree 29 fans permalink

What you describe is the moving of assets from those who should not have purchased them or didn't know how to manage them effectively to someone who understands proper economic and capitalistic principles. It is the essence of capitalism.

Same with GM! The proper approach is to let them sink or swim and someone who has better management skills can buy them, take over, abandon the financial anchors of the unwise union deals and medical costs, and create a profitable company that will grow and produce more jobs.

Same idea. It's capitalism. As you noted, it SOUNDS harsh, but it works a hell of a lot better than any other system yet invented. Including Marxism, socialism, etc., which do SOUND more warm and fuzzy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:52 PM on 11/25/2008
- SailFree I'm a Fan of SailFree 29 fans permalink

May well be time to buy STOCKS, too. Buy low, sell high.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:19 PM on 11/25/2008
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