Rachel Maddow, Dahlia Lithwick On Obama And War Crimes (VIDEO)

On last night's Rachel Maddow show, Maddow engaged Slate's Dahlia Lithwick in a discussion on how Barack Obama might tend to some of the more morally troubling aspects of the outgoing Bush administration -- issues like torture and detention and rendition. Initially, Lithwick says, she was optimistic that an Obama administration would follow through on promises to close Gitmo and bring a halt to the practice of torture. But there's been some hedging.

"I've been waiting for war crimes tribunals to get sexy," Lithwick quipped,. "For folks like me, who have been covering Padilla and covering Moussaoui, covering Gitmo, covering waterboarding for years, we were waiting for this moment for [Obama] to say, as he said, days after the election...we're closing Guantanamo...and within hours, they kind of pulled back on it a little bit." Lithwick noted that the camp is taking a "turn the page" line on potential prosecutions, that it wasn't a matter the Obama team "wanted to expend capital on." "My feeling is," Lithwick said, "if you don't want to expend capital on war crimes, what do you want to spend it on?"

I've long been a fan of Lithwick's, and my heart on the matter is very much in alignment with hers -- torturers should be punished. Abrogations of legal rights must not be tolerated. Nevertheless, I get the distinct impression that the Obama camp has always been of the mind that they could either jump out on January 20, 2009 and start repairing the damage of the Bush administration or set out on a broad campaign of investigations and hearings to elucidate and punish wrongdoing, but that they could not do both, and so were going to follow the former path.

Moreover, while I feel pretty strongly about loudly holding Obama to his promise to end these evil practices and close Guantanamo Bay, I don't recall the campaign promising anything about prosecutions or war crimes tribunals. There's always been a strong, undercurrent theme of reconciliation in Obama's rhetoric. On balance, I'm satisfied with reconciliation playing a part in future governance, but as someone who's long been convinced that the nation was dragged into a moral cesspool by men like David Addington and John Yoo, I'll admit it's a bitter pill.

Lithwick is more bullish on the choice of Eric Holder as Attorney General. "He's been a lifer at Justice, he really cares about the Department. I think it broke his heart, what happened to the Department under Alberto Gonzales, and I have the sense that he's going to fight the good fight."

Comments

[Bombalot]

During the campaigning, I heard clips of Obama speaking out about "Justice" and I naturally reasoned he meant that just that. I am waiting and hoping that he will address any crime that comes up during his tenure and not allow politics to interfere. I know those clips are available so I'm not sure what Ms Dahlia means when she says, "potential prosecutions, that it wasn't a matter the Obama team "wanted to expend capital on." It would not be prudent for him to prejudge his future at this point especially. Before we lynch him, let's wait till he refuses to uphold the Constitution.

[Alyscha]

I'm sorry to have to say this, but i'm getting a little tired of Ms. Maddow. She is CONSTANTLY negative. I respect that she is at the far left wing of the party, so am i for goodness sake, but she needs to understand and fully embrace the concept of COMPROMISE!!

[robertogt]

NOTHING will change. The Dems had a chance to end the war when they took over congress in '06. Pelosi takes impeachment "off the table" Now the Dems have all three branches and are doining around with rhetoric. Obama voted for the bailout. He's sucked up to Israel at the AIPAC meeting. He's owned just like the rest. He'll take his marching orders and speed our demise. We're toast.

[neesy08]

I saw this show last night and my jaws dropped to the floor. I wondered what had this woman smoked prior to her TV showing. She and Rachel both sounded like idiots to me.

[ObamanextPresident]

It has only been three (3!) weeks. We are all talking like PE (President ELECT!) Obama has been in office for a year and has not done a thing. PEBO sees the country tanking before our eyes and a President (an eeevil, corrupt, criminal president) with 56 days left (god help us) to wield his power. PEBO nor any of us have any idea what our country will look like on 1-20-09. Obama can't possibly lay out any concrete plans for investigations or charges NOW. Why give Boosh/Chainee any ammunition or reason for retaliation.

Instead of this endless, unproductive speculation on what Obama may or may not be doing; we must all be focused like lasers on what the present Pres is up to and make sure we have a country left when President Obama takes office.

Please remember it has only been three weeks!

[Sarahjan]

Obama is loves power more than anything else!

[PeaceMongerToo]

You're poor grammar and an assertion without explanation tells us how important it is to listen to what you have to say.

[PeaceMongerToo]

I apologize for my previous comment. I just read some of your other posts and agree with you on many of your ideas.

[Dave-O]

It is very important that the US reassert itself as a moral leader of the world. The problem with the Bush administration debacle is that Bush and his henchmen were so evil in their total disregard for International Law that the only recourse that President Obama has is to for the good of the country drag Alberto Gonzales, Rumsfield, Cheney and maybe even GW himself, out before the international community to make examples of. That in no uncertain terms, say to the world the the US does not believe in torture, murder, extraordinary rendition, kidnapping, or genocide. How can we ever be able to say to any rogue government in the world to cease and desist when our own record in human rights and violations of international law are not above reproach. President Obama, do the right thing!!!

[rightsize2005]

The problem is not Barack going back on his promises, the problem rests with this huge new transition team and the media, that preempts everything he is going to do and sets the Bush administration on a path to immunize them selves and their henchmen from prosecution.

The media needs to stop speculating and allow the transition team to work, wait until he gets sworn into office and he begins to act before we pass judgment, The wee elected to do a job, give them a chance to do it before you start passing judgments.

Barack is right to try to cool things down, the campaign is over, cool heads must prevail in the days ahead, there is too much at risk.

[cbates]

The woman couched her comments in the political versus the legal end pieces. My comment is that she is correct from a political perspective that I am too worried about the economy to be cocnerned about taken the other party down further in organization, which incidentally would help them to redefine themselves.

If the law has been broken then the justice department should investigate and proesecute where it is justified and not go on a hunt for stuff that would be hard to prove.

Rachel is a breathe of fresh air and at the sametime she is too joke-ish or trying to be witty for me.

[GKJames]

Only after we have some reasonable semblance of the facts should we discuss prosecution. To get those facts, the commission being proposed is a good idea. It can do its work while the administration focuses on immediate issues. Once Obama has established his bona fides -- if past is prologue, that is only a matter of time -- and once there is a firm factual footing, he'd be in a better position to burn some political powder on prosecution. I agree with those who believe that leading off with that would be an unnecessary distraction. And if and when the administration did decide to prosecute, it would be morally vacuous if it didn't start with Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, and all the other geniuses at the top.

[Yermammy]

Ooohhh, I don't know, what about 35 Articles of Impeachment that have been read into the House Records by Dennis Kucinich and cockblocked by Nancy Pelosi? We've GOT the proof, we just don't GOT the spine. That's changing though. There is a surge of popular rage over the last eight years and it's coming to a head. This isn't a "distraction". This is REQUIRED. Unless, of course, you think the Rule of Law is a "distraction". LOL.

[zepfan81]

The problem is I really don't see that many people enraged about this. I mean the people that are are very passionate don't get me wrong. But most people are enraged because he's incompetent and never just says "Hey, I screwed up. Let's fix it"

[OldKnute]

YES, GKJ,

To bring FOCUS. My suggestion is the Web can accomplish this. Give voice to truth, in much the same way as it has given voice to The People. But, I would offer, it need be a World Inclusive effort. Much more than just Americans have suffered. Much MORE. Many MORE.

A Nuremberg of the Net.

Uncompromising, truthful, factual, above reproach, unassailable, indisputable, international, inclusive.

YES. Start at the top.

All the best

Knute

[Esot3ric]

I have a feeling that some things changed when Obama began getting the same intelligence briefings as the President. Something tells me that he has new information now that must be game-changing, to a certain degree.

[DoTheMath]

Let's start brainstorming how to move on and reconcile, while also holding people accountable for atrocities. We need to do all of the above. They may seem mutually exclusive, but let's at least try to think of a way to do what we know is right.

Can we really move on without holding anyone accountable? How can we worry about the moral hazards involved in bailing out financial institutions and not give a second thought to the moral hazards involved in letting our representatives walk away scott-free (and no doubt financially enriched from defense and oil contracts) after they have authorized torture and the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people in a war of choice?

[zepfan81]

Another problem is I think doing this would scapegoating Bush. This wasn't all his fault. He isn't some dictator that took over our government in a military coup against the will of the American people. Who was it that made anyone that dared question this administration feel unpatriotic? That was us. Who demanded Bush "do something" after 9-11? Us. Who reelected this man despite the fact we knew he was incompetent and mislead us into Iraq and mismanaged it at that? Us. The media is to blame for not questioning anything until after the fact. And Congress, don't EVEN get me started. You mean to tell me the leadership of both parties didn't know what was going on? PLEASE. They had plenty of opportunities to ACT, yet did nothing but talk. Bush couldn't do anything they didn't let him do. Instead of pointing fingers we need to look in the mirror. It's our own paranoia that lead to all this.

[Yermammy]

Don't you DARE accuse me of voting for this animal. Quite the contrary. And he stole the election, which was his very FIRST crime. LOL. You're too funny. Justice is coming for YOUR pick.

[zepfan81]

I'm sure you didn't nor did, but 62 million did and he got 286, therefore he won. This guy in reality shouldn't have gotten even half that! I'm not denying there was some cheating going on in 2000, but by 2004 we knew who he was and what to expect, yet....

[anney]

I think doing this would scapegoating Bush. This wasn't all his fault. He isn't some dictator that took over our government in a military coup against the will of the American people. Who was it that made anyone that dared question this administration feel unpatriotic? That was us. Who demanded Bush "do something" after 9-11?

=====

But nobody asked him to do something illegal that violated US and international law. That's pretty dictatorial if you ask me and millions of other Americans.

[zepfan81]

But no one stopped him. That's my point. We act like there isn't a system of checks and balances here. Our forefathers designed our government to prevent things like this from happening. Don't forget our President elect even voted for the latest FISA bill.

[Yermammy]

You remember what they "told" us that Barack had no chance? You remember how WE THE PEOPLE rose up and proved them wrong? We can DO IT AGAIN! These criminals need justice by legal means and we will show the world that WE THE PEOPLE are truly the ones in command! http://capusawc.org/ and http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/ are but two sites dedicated to justice for this eight loooong years of destruction of the Rule of Law and ridicule of the Constitution of the United States of America. YES. WE. CAN! Times a wasting. If not soon, it will NEVER GET DONE. We were brave enough to stand with Barack Obama and we are certainly brave enough to stand AGAINST this Bush regime.

[TheIndependenceParty]

Our stature in the World is not diminished because we have lived on credit for the last eight years. It is not diminished because we have the US Government spying on its own citizens without warrants, nor that our unemployment is rising precipitously, and our national debt as well. We are not the shame of the world because the Big Three build gas guzzlers with no future, nor that the fool who has been our president banned stem cell research that would have kept us in the avant guarde of medical research and care.

No, We are in a state of shame because The United States of America, under George W. Bush, violated precepts of International Law, Treaties to which we were signatories, and our own Constitution to accord such understandings as the Geneva Convention the full weight of Federal Law. We committed our nation not only to a pre-emptive war in Iraq, but to a POLICY of pre-emptive war, as if that were something we should follow beyond the end of the Bush Administration.

Whether Obama's team wants to spend their "capital" on this issue or not is not so much up to them as up to the very people who elected him president.

[TheIndependenceParty]

Part II

That George Bush has led our nation in disgrace among the world's nations is bad enough. That disgrace must be rectified either by the government, ... who are after all the people, of the United States, or if not, then by the international community with the cooperation of the United States Government stepping aside as the World pursues Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and their ilk.



President-elect Obama, I urge you not to walk away from your Constitutional understandings. No man in the history of our Republic has so violated the letter and intent of that document he referred to as "a God Damn(ed) piece of paper". It would seem to me that the defense of that precious piece of parchament may well have been what brought you to the office that man will hopefully vacate in two months' time.

[Yermammy]

Wow. I bow to your eloquence and rhetoric! Hear! Hear! Sign me up, brother/sister. Yes.