SoCal Toys 'R' Us Shooting Leaves Two Dead

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GILLIAN FLACCUS | November 28, 2008 09:24 PM EST | AP

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Police and emergency personnel are seen outside the Toys "R" Us store in Palm Desert, Calif. on Friday, Nov. 28, 2008. Two people were shot to death in a crowded toy store on Black Friday in a confrontation apparently involving rival groups, city officials said. (AP Photo/Michael Snyder, The Desert Sun)

PALM DESERT, Calif. — Two men pulled guns and shot each other to death in a crowded toy store Friday after the women with them erupted into a bloody brawl, witnesses said. Scared shoppers fled but no one else was hurt.

The violence erupted on Black Friday, the traditional post-Thanksgiving start of the holiday shopping surge, but authorities indicated the shooting wasn't related to a shopping frenzy.

Riverside County sheriff's Sgt. Dennis Gutierrez said the fight was not over a toy. He said handguns were found by the men's bodies, but he released little other information. He would not answer a question about whether the shooting was gang-related.

Witnesses Scott and Joan Barrick said they were checking out of the store when the fight began between two women, each with a man. The women were near the checkout area, but the Barricks did not think the women had purchases.

One woman suddenly started punching the other woman, who fought back as blood flowed from her nose, Scott Barrick, 41, said.

The man who was with the woman being punched pulled a gun halfway out of his pocket, then shoved it back in, he said.

"He pulled his gun right next to me. I turned to look for my wife, and she was already hiding," Barrick said.

"I was scared," said Joan Barrick, 40. "I didn't want to die today. I really didn't want to die today, and I think that's what we were all thinking."

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The other man pulled a gun and pointed it at the first man but forgot to cock it, Scott Barrick said. The first man tried to run but was blocked by the line of people, then ran back toward the store's electronics section as the other man fired his gun, he said.

The first man reached a dead-end in electronics, turned around and ran toward an exit, pulling his gun and firing back, he said.

"He went up to the cash register, he went to put his hand on the thing and he just went phoomp," he said, indicating the man fell.

He said he did not see what happened to the other man.

Palm Desert Councilman Jim Ferguson said police told him two men with handguns shot and killed each other.

"I think the obvious question everyone has is who takes loaded weapons into a Toys "R" Us?" he said. "I doubt it was the casual holiday shopper."

Ray Turner, 20, said he was two aisles away when two women began shouting and screaming at each other and he had a clear view of the fight until a crowd clustered around them. Both women had children, he said.

"We thought it was just a fight and then someone yelled, 'He's got a gun. He's got a gun.' You really couldn't see nothing because there was a crowd," Turner said.

Rafael Gomez, 11, said he and his father had been in the store about 20 minutes before the shooting but were in a nearby Pizza Hut when they saw people pouring out of the store screaming.

"We just saw them running and crying. I was kind of scared," Rafael said. "We got lucky."

Toys "R" Us issued a statement expressing outrage over the violence.

"We are working closely with local law enforcement officials to determine the specific details of what occurred," the statement said. "Our understanding is that this act seems to have been the result of a personal dispute between the individuals involved. Therefore, it would be inaccurate to associate the events of today with Black Friday."

The Barricks and others remained at the scene long after the shooting because investigators would not allow cars to be taken from the parking lot until a crime-scene reconstruction was completed.

Palm Desert is a resort town about 120 miles east of Los Angeles.

PALM DESERT, Calif. — Two men pulled guns and shot each other to death in a crowded toy store Friday after the women with them erupted into a bloody brawl, witnesses said. Scared shoppers fled b...
PALM DESERT, Calif. — Two men pulled guns and shot each other to death in a crowded toy store Friday after the women with them erupted into a bloody brawl, witnesses said. Scared shoppers fled b...
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- Eri I'm a Fan of Eri permalink

Sad... It would be a Thanksgivingday...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:58 PM on 12/03/2008
- gwhizz I'm a Fan of gwhizz 19 fans permalink

Deifinitely WalMart's fault.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:34 AM on 12/02/2008
- djkrlsn I'm a Fan of djkrlsn 23 fans permalink

I guess you missed that this took place at a ToysRUs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:46 PM on 12/03/2008

1. How come people are making the assumption that the two men involved were Latino gang members? The only even vaguely Latino name mentioned in the article belongs to an 11-year-old witness. Seems kind of like knee-jerk near-racism to me.
2. Is no one else disturbed by the events that led to the shooting? Two women, WITH CHILDREN IN TOW, begin brawling to the point where blood is flowing. How did things even escalate to that point? I'm sure it began with yelling...why weren't they escorted out? On a Black Friday at Toys r Us, there must be a security guard. This particular retailer has got to be accustomed to violent holiday shoppers...anyone other than me remember Tickle Me Elmo or Cabbage Patch Kids?

All this stuff is so depressing it just makes me want to cry. I get all excited and hopeful and vindicated when Obama wins the presidentail nomination, and then I hear about things like this, as well as live in a state that decided to deny a basic right to a decent-sized chunk of our population.

Merry f'in Christmas.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:24 PM on 12/01/2008

rosezilla: "1. How come people are making the assumption that the two men involved were Latino gang members? " How else would you explain that (A) the two women started fighting, (B) _BOTH_ husbands just _happened_ to be _illegally_ carrying guns. California issues very few concealed carry permits, and even then, only to very establishment-type people.

How can you justify keeping _good_ people unarmed when the country lets in people like _that_?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:25 AM on 12/03/2008
- Gib I'm a Fan of Gib 24 fans permalink

Sounds like the ideal resolution. They cancelled each other out.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:59 PM on 12/01/2008
- suec03 I'm a Fan of suec03 10 fans permalink

Humans aren't math problems. You can't say a negative canceled out a positive so now we are back at zero. Humans are the starting point of numerous complex interpersonal relationships. We don't know whether one of the women was the aggressor and the other was defending herself. We don't know what had gone on between them before they got to the store. What we do know is that the women are alive, the husbands/boyfriends are dead, and there must be children left behind or why would they be in a toy store? I am more concerned about the psychological scarring of those children who have to come to grips with how daddy died, and all the innocent bystander children who were in the store and got a rude introduction to the idea that even toy stores can become dangerous places in a matter of moments.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:19 PM on 12/01/2008
- Sparty1 I'm a Fan of Sparty1 19 fans permalink

Only in America does foolishness occur at the drop of a hat. Just across the border they don't have senseless gun violence like we do. It makes me sick that the NRA has such a strangle hold on members of Congress, so much so, that we'll never have any type of gun control.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:08 PM on 12/01/2008

This has nothing to do with the NRA. The right to bear arms is a constitutionally protected right. The Second Amendment reads:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to
keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Gun control in and of itself is a fallacy in my mind. Gun control only restricts guns, potentially, from law abiding citizens. Honestly, think about it. Most criminals who commit acts of violence with weapons can often times easily obtain weapons outside the legally defined lines we have. They are criminals because they don't care about the laws. No matter what law you have, they will find a way to get the weapons. Now, I am not saying we should abandon all reasonable steps to restrict weapons. But, lets not go down the path that believes that 'gun control' will solve these problems.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:55 AM on 12/02/2008
- Horus I'm a Fan of Horus 20 fans permalink
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"He pulled his gun right next to me. I turned to look for my wife, and she was already hiding," Barrick said.

I realize finding any humor in this article is probably in bad taste, but this guys quote made me LOL.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:18 AM on 12/01/2008
- drspaceman I'm a Fan of drspaceman 3 fans permalink

That comment jumped out at me too. I think its time for Mr. Barrick to get a wife who has his back.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:02 PM on 12/01/2008
- jalowe1957 I'm a Fan of jalowe1957 29 fans permalink
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The NRA says "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." And what do people kill people with? Guns.

Can't they keep these things out of the reach of children and hot-headed fools?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:01 AM on 12/01/2008
- djkrlsn I'm a Fan of djkrlsn 23 fans permalink

Of course you know that you have to be 18 to buy a rifle or shotgun and 21 to buy a handgun, so very sorry--once you are 18, you are legally an adult.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:53 PM on 12/01/2008

People also kill each other with knives, clubs, cars, and all manners of instruments.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:47 AM on 12/02/2008

It is unbelievable that there are people all over the world worrying if they are going to have enough to eat each day and here in the U.S. they have people who do not value life. They see the guns and shooting 'em up shows and movies and want to act them out. In the end, not caring if they hurt others or if they die. The same thing can be said about the Mumbai gunmen. They have developed a cold heart and when that happens life becomes meaningless.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:52 AM on 12/01/2008
- wedgie I'm a Fan of wedgie 17 fans permalink
photo

Okay folks, lets all calm down. It's an isolated incident. Wouldn't even have made the front page in 1880 (when it was happening 10,000 times a day.)

Let's just try and get the economy going and some kind of cultural/racial equality-tolerance thing going and maybe it'll sort itself out.

K?

**

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:14 AM on 12/01/2008

Have yourself a crappy little Christmas,
Let your heart be black
From now on,
your guilt will be something we lack

Have yourself a crappy little Christmas,
Make the Yule-tide sad,
From now on,
our guilt will be very bad

Here we are as in hatefilled days,
Rotten Bush2 days of yore.
Faithful friends who dont call us
Have moved away once more.

Through the sadness
We all will be just even meaner
If our hate allows
A "Made in China" "wreath" upon the highest bough.
And have yourself ....
A crappy little Christmas now

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:19 AM on 12/01/2008
- djkrlsn I'm a Fan of djkrlsn 23 fans permalink

You really need to get your Bush derangement syndrome treated.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:55 PM on 12/01/2008

Sad as this may sound. I was in Palm Desert back in June and on the local news they had expressed a lot of concern how the Latino Gangs were moving there and more crime was beginning to occur and it's such a beautiful nice, clean place (Palm Desert, Cathedral City, Palm Springs).

So actually I'm not surprised that this happened. More than likely it was not over purchases. But more so GANG RELATED. Why isn't the Latino community in SOCAL doing anything about this? I mean seriously.

Stay tuned the TRUTH will come out in a few days!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:26 AM on 12/01/2008

who cares.......it was a public service.........

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:38 AM on 12/01/2008
- suec03 I'm a Fan of suec03 10 fans permalink

What was a public service? Endangering the lives and scarring the psyches of all the other adults and children in the store? This is in my valley. I have shopped in that store years ago. These were human beings--screwed up human beings--not some kind of bugs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:22 PM on 12/01/2008
- suec03 I'm a Fan of suec03 10 fans permalink

A lot of families moved out here to the Coachella Valley because of the explosion of housing construction (and subprime loans). In some cases, relatives with gang connections follow. We need a full employment economy so impressionable youth will see a desirable future away from the allure of gang culture.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:42 PM on 12/01/2008

What a terrible story. In a country of hundreds of millions of weapons, where bloody death is frequently a form of cinematic and game-console entertainment, the masses are 'shocked'.
The right to bear arms should be repealed. The civilians did not rise up against their leader who lied to start a war that left thousands of young men and women in flag-draped coffins. Why do they really need to bear arms now? What could any gov't possibly do that is worse than that?
There used to be trade in programs, guns for toys. There should be violent games for toys trade in programs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:38 PM on 11/30/2008
- steve12 I'm a Fan of steve12 9 fans permalink

This is dumb. We have more guns than people in the United States. Are you going to be the one confiscating every weapon out there? If so, expect WWIII.

You are not going to repeal the second amendment, so get real. The answer will not come from government, but from ourselves. I think it needs community leaders, churches, families, and others to address this problem.

This kind of talk just makes the right go looney, so let's deal with what can be done and not wish for some magical solution that will never come.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:08 PM on 11/30/2008
- wedgie I'm a Fan of wedgie 17 fans permalink
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Truthupontruth probably is an NRA lobbyist. Just out to raise a few hackles and get the donations flowing.

**

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:10 AM on 12/01/2008

I didn't know blaming repubs would be a good defense in court, besides I think Barney Frank and congress ,all of congress have a hand in causing this problem.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:50 PM on 11/30/2008
- steve12 I'm a Fan of steve12 9 fans permalink

You will have to explain to me how Congress or Barney Frank or any politician has anything to do with two men shooting each other with illegally concealed guns in a toy store in Southern Cal. This makes about as much sense as blaming George Bush.

The fault is not in government, but in ourselves.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:31 PM on 11/30/2008

That comment was put in the wrong spot. Was talking about something else.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:41 PM on 12/01/2008
- booker52 I'm a Fan of booker52 22 fans permalink
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Disgusting that this even happened and in a toy store!!!! Next question did either one of these people have a permit to carry??? I would say with this type of behavior, big fat not.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:46 PM on 11/30/2008
- djkrlsn I'm a Fan of djkrlsn 23 fans permalink

FRom their lack of control--I would say it is far more likely that they are gangbangers (and with gangbangers--the only laws that I have seen that work keep them in prison for a good long time) than lawabiding citizens with CCWs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:32 PM on 12/01/2008
- Gib I'm a Fan of Gib 24 fans permalink

They have those laws, and prisons full of such people. How well is it working?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:01 PM on 12/01/2008

California has tough gun laws on carry permits. You have to know someone or donate to the right people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:43 PM on 12/01/2008
- copestir I'm a Fan of copestir 3 fans permalink

But golly, we have the right to our guns.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:33 PM on 11/30/2008

But golly, we have the right to our speech. Maybe we should just throw out the bill of rights.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:01 PM on 11/30/2008
- Zeje I'm a Fan of Zeje 9 fans permalink

Where does it say that we have the right to carry guns into a toy store? and where does it say we have the right to shoot each other?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:20 PM on 11/30/2008
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