Plea Deal Offered To 8-Year-Old Charged With Murdering His Father

PHOENIX — Prosecutors have offered a plea deal to an 8-year-old boy charged with murder in the shooting deaths of his father and another man in their eastern Arizona home, court records show.

Complete details of the offer weren't spelled out in a court filing posted Saturday on the Apache County Superior Court's Web site.

But County Attorney Criss Candelaria wrote that he has "tendered a plea offer to the juvenile's attorneys that would resolve all the charges in the juvenile court contingent on the results of the mental health evaluations."

Candelaria was responding to a defense motion seeking to block him from dropping one of two first-degree murder charges the boy faces in the deaths of his father, Vincent Romero, 29, and Timothy Romans, 39, earlier this month.

Defense attorney Benjamin Brewer argued in a filing Tuesday that prosecutors wanted the charge dismissed so they could refile it when the boy was older and pursue case in adult court.

Brewer said Saturday that the deal would resolve the case without it being transferred to adult court, but he declined to provide additional details. Although he is considering the offer, Brewer said he is unsure of his client's ability to understand the proceedings. At least two mental health evaluations are yet to be completed.

The prosecutor explained in his response to Brewer's opposition filing that he wasn't trying to obtain an unfair advantage, but he pressed for the dismissal because the judicial system isn't equipped to deal with an 8-year-old charged with murder.

"It is done to ensure that the juvenile and the two murder victims in this case do not fall through the cracks in the system that might occur if both charges remain in the pending delinquency petition," Candelaria wrote.

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Candelaria explained that the boy could be found incompetent to stand trial, and if that happened, the court's options would be limited.

The court would be required to order efforts to restore the boy to competency, but if that couldn't be done within about eight months, the judge would be required by law to dismiss the criminal case and bar it from being refiled.

The court would then be required to initiate civil commitment proceedings, Candelaria wrote. If the boy is found incompetent because of his age, he wouldn't fit the definition of a mentally disordered person and no treatment would be available.

"Such a result denies the victims and public of any sense of justice for these heinous murders," Candelaria wrote. "It also denies the juvenile the rehabilitative services that he apparently needs to both deal with why he was capable of committing these murders and to assist him with the grief and remorse that he is probably feeling."

Police in St. Johns found Romero and Romans shot to death after the boy ran to a neighbor's house on Nov. 5. The boy was questioned after Romans' wife raised suspicions about him the next day, and in a videotape released by prosecutors, he admits pulling the trigger. Both men were shot several times with a .22-caliber rifle.

Romans worked with Romero and rented a room in his home.

Police reports say the boy told a state Child Protective Services worker that his 1,000th spanking would be his last.

The boy is being held in a county juvenile facility, although he was allowed to spend Thanksgiving with his mother.

Brewer said the boy is back in custody. The next court hearing is set for Dec. 8.

Comments

[motodude]

This case has received very slanted coverage here in AZ. The prosecution characterizes the boy receiving "spankings". The boys grandmother says he received excessive treatment at the hands of his parents. This really indicates abuse along with needing to count to 1000 beatings, er, spankings. Yet all the focus has been to demonize the boy but not the abuse his drug dealer dad was doling out. The boy was in contact with Child Protective Services but they obviously dropped the ball, as they do so often. It is so disturbing to see this 8 year old victim of abuse vilified and portrayed with such bias by the adults who should have been protecting him.

[Geneil]

You live what you learn... who was teaching him.

[mathme]

My dad spanked us, and it seems somewhat frequently. But in no way was it ever close to a thousand across our whole spanking lives. Of course, he also explained why he was doing it every time and spent a lot of time talking to us about our punishment and what we did to warrant it. It sounds like this guy just hauled off and gave him whacks... a thousand. Wow. That could be almost every day for 3 years-- think about that. From age 5 - 8, every day. And it was only a thousand since he started keeping track.

I'm not a spanking advocate, but i believe if it is done responsibly and not in a fit of rage, it *can* be useful in behavior modification (and if the goal is to prevent the child from doing something dangerous, then it could be better than waiting for him/her to get hurt or worse). But every day? He knew a way to make it stop and he did it.

That assumes that he really did do it. I still have my doubts because it doesn't take much work or effort to coerce a child into admitting to, well, almost anything. A few suggestions here, a few there, and they will tell the adult what he/she wants to hear-- adults are sources of "truth" to children and help them learn to construct their realities.

[Wiserone]

Why didn't his biological mother have custody of this boy? Since he was allowed to spend Thanksgiving with her, it doesn't appear that she didn't have any contact with her son. This also tells me the mother knew the 'form' of punishment that was being inflicted upon her son and she should also be brought up on charges. Everyone was looking the other way. The father, the step-mother and then those two allowed a male friend to also meter out punishment against this child and who knows what else. The child must be pretty smart because even for a woman who is battered, it takes a lot to get to a breaking point and do what this child did. Yet, this child was aware enough to know it could be stopped. I don't condone what he did, but the punishment should fit the crime. In this instance, let's not forget he is a child.

[javaz]

She moved to the south after the divorce and had very little contact with her son until recently.

Don't be too quick to paint the father or stepmother as monsters.

I live in Arizona and from reports here, I certainly would not want this child living in my neighborhood or anywhere near my family.

If the child is released, I hope the mom takes him back to her home in the south.

[keebler28]

This kid is a murderer. He is also a liar, did you watch that tape. "oh I don't know what happen", then "I might have shot him.... a couple of times".

[TheSecularist]

You obviously know nothing about children. I saw the tape, too. This child was coerced. Children his age are eager to please adults. They tell you what they think you want to hear and they are very good at understanding verbal and non-verbal cues. As to being a liar, HE'S A KID!

[javaz]

He also said at one point that he came home and found his father and the renter already shot and suffering, so he killed them to put them out of their pain.

St. John's is a small community and there are no reports from neighbors or teachers or the family's church regarding any child abuse.
The victims were both highly regarded by the community, the father praised for being a hard-working father who was an attentive and loving dad.

Ultimately the father is responsible for not securing the guns and bullets, since children and guns are never a good idea.

[mathme]

An 8 year old lied about doing something bad? That's amazing and rare.

[LRM216]

Sounds as if this child has already "fallen through the cracks" just by being born to his two parents; a mother that divorces the dad and then walks out of the kids life, and a dad that likes to sell drugs and "spank" him 1,000. Sweet memories this 8 year old must have.

[RRoadrunner]

Compassion seems to be lacking here.

[Brautigan]

Eight years old.

Counseling and love is all that is called for here.

'Nuff said.

[mrmayhem87]

This case is rediculous. The kid should not have to take a plea to anything. He was fed his interrogstion by the cops who failed to have an adult or an attorney present. The cops should be prosecuted for their lack of common sense in this case.

The lawyers for the kid should go to trial. Because the moment this case hits trial, it will be thrown out due to lack of proper police procedure. As for the kid, if he is truly guilty and did not just tell the cops what they wanted to hear, then he needs therapy.

For God's sake he is only 8 years old people.

[poster1122]

I haven't seen the interrogation, so I can't judge whether it was lawful or not. However, given that the boy is only 8, if he's the shooter, there's likely a ton of forensic evidence pointing to him. If that's the case, taking this to trial could be extremely risky.

I don't know anything about the boy. So I won't speculate whether he was some abused kid that snapped or some sociopath that was a ticking time bomb that just had the opportunity to go off.

[Mort]

Children learn violent behavior from their abusers. He needs intensive therapy and lots of love, certainly not jail. It's the step mom that should be locked up.

[RegLib]

"Incompetent to stand trial"??? He's freaking eight years old!

[NotMcCain]

How did the police interrogation get posted on the Internet?

That alone should get the case thrown out. Even Charles Manson couldn't be convicted with this kind of police work.

[DS3M]

why's everyone always down on charlie?

[devinsbuddy]

The most interesting item in this travesty is thef fact that Child Protective Services has a rerport that this child had a log stating that after his beatings by his father and step-mother reached one thousand, the game was over! Where in Hell wasa "beloved" Governor Jamet Napolitano during this? Why she was pimpimg for Homeland Security Chief! She cannot protect an 8 year old child! How in Hell can she protect our borders? I would hope that a higher legal authority would step in and thoroughly investigate this entire mess!
My 8 year old son and I pray for this youngster everyday.
Michael McNally
www.devinpatrick.com

[mikep007]

You are blaming this on the Governor????. I hate to tell you, but this stuff happens in Red states as well and I do not blame the GOP governors.

[JailNeoconVicts]

Actually I do blame the GOP. They're the idiots who insist everyone should keep firearms, regardless of need or even mental capacity.

[Indubio]

He's not blaming the governor. Read the comment. He is suggesting that the State of Arizona new about this abusive situation before it turned deadly and they did nothing. As it's chief executive, the governor represents the state's bureaucracy. While it is doubtful she knew about this situation before it erupted in violence, if in fact State CHild Protective Services had jurisdiction then they take direction from their chief executive; thus, nominally, the governor is ultimately responsible.

[stargazer13]

I think you need some rest devinsbuddy why you link the gov to this boy is be yound me

[gopSTEALSyourTAXmoney]

'devinsbuddy' is obsessed with borders. He posts the same comments
over and over again whether it relates to a story or not. To bring up
Janet Napolitano is rediculous.
devinsbuddy couldn't live anywhere on this planet without finding
somebody to hate.
And--- Janet Napolitano is not a Psychologist or Psychiatrist so wtf?

[devinsbuddy]

Our Governor is the chief executive officer in the state. As such, she is well aware of Arizonas complete failure in ther protection of our children. The only problem is, this time the child won! The illegal interrogation of this child by the "hicktowm" cops is mkore than enough to throw the case out! The CPS workers should be charged and terminated!
For the record, I don't believe I harp on the biorder issue that much! Living in a border state, I see, first hand, the real problems.

[Skepticat]

Obviously these homicides are not normal behaviour, and 8 year old aren't adults with the same level of understanding. However I am amazed at the number of bloggers who imply that the situation should just be forgotten and the kid sent home without further ado after deliberately killing 2 people.
Every single sociopath that ever walked the Earth was once 8 years old and research shows their later behaviour was usually a logical and often predictable consequence of childhood abuse.
The current legal system whether juvenile, or adult is simply not designed to handle the problem.

[topkatnc]

What is the best way or wrong way to handle this kind of a thing ? It may be the FIRST ONE . But it will not be the LAST one , you can bet on that !

[aweissnet]

A couple ways to look at it. A normal child doesn't view killing their oppressor as a way to end abuse. He knew what he was doing, and used the gun as "punishment." That makes it a problem. He wasn't playing, didn't think it was a game, and they'd all get up and walk away. You could almost call it self-defense. I don't know what the "spankings" were like. I don't view domestic violence the same as most people -- I think it should be ILLEGAL (it is legalized violence against women and children sanctioned by law), and a defense of self against that that should be handled as self defense.

While there are many women in prison serviing sentences for protecting themselves and their children, and klling husband/father who was a routine abuser--pushed to the point of that--I don't think it's right one bit. They should get institutionalized time (mental health); likely they need it.

I think he needs ongoing mental health evaluation and therapy. Plus a big brother of some sort. Good role models, kind people to show him there is a different world out there than the one he knew ... if it's not too late. Probably nothing the government doles out will be of any use.

[Soclawyer]

The rules for questioning juveniles are different than for adults. Theoretically children would not understand Miranda Rights, etc. I also question if the 1000 spankings ever happened. I once worked in a Children's Service agency and know that kids can lie about such things; if the spankings were documented, then why is that not being considered. As for the prosecutor, keep in mind that we do not pay them to do 'justice' but to prosecute criminal or at least people we think of as criminals. If we want justice in our criminal justice system, then we need to get rid of the adversarial process and go with a court system where everyone, defense and prosecutor, are charged with finding the truth.

[NotMcCain]

Miranda Rights warn the person that they have the right to remain silent--to say nothing.. This boy may not have understood that part, but all the more reason the police should have been SURE to follow the second--that he had the right to have an attorney present.

It is unthinkable to question an 8 year old about killing someone without having a lawyer present for him. Crazy.

[Indubio]

Be thankful the authorities haven't already convicted him and put the kid on death row.