500 Muslim Soldiers' Tombs Desecrated In France

PARIS — Vandals desecrated at least 500 tombs of Muslim soldiers in northern France on Monday _ an act President Nicolas Sarkozy denounced as "repugnant racism."

The desecration near the town of Arras appeared timed with the start of Eid al-Adha, the most important holiday in the Muslim calendar.

The administration for the Pas-de-Calais region said the damaged tombs were in the Muslim section of the Notre-Dame-de-Lorette cemetery, a well-groomed burial ground for World War I soldiers. Some had swastikas scrawled on the tombstone, others had lettering whose meaning was unclear.

There are 576 graves in the Muslim section of the cemetery, where more than 30,000 soldiers are buried.

Sarkozy, in a statement, said the "abject and revolting act" equates with "repugnant racism against France's Muslim community" and insults the memory of all World War I combatants.

It was the third time the Muslim section of the cemetery has been targeted. Last April, 148 tombs were desecrated, and a year before that 52 headstones and an ossuary were vandalized.

The French Council for the Muslim Faith, a group representing France's numerous Muslim groups, decried "these odious, revolting and scandalous acts" and said it expected authorities to find out who carried out the attack.

Interior Minister Michele Alliot-Marie said police were investigating the incident.

Comments

[Sapphdia]

This makes me sick. Those soldiers deserve respect.

[GoneAreRepugs1]

Bingo bingo.

[AsianAfricanAMERICAN]

I take back my comment that our American Right Wingers have never went this far....

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/12/9/0113/69594/292/670930

[GoneAreRepugs1]

Bingo bingo.

[BlackWidowPilot]

As a Military Historian, whenever I hear some racist spout off, I cannot but erupt in rage, knowing how such fools have their rights to free speech to spew their vile, ignorant hate thanks to the sacrifices of thousands of Americans of colour who gave their lives in defense of Liberty since the Revolution.

I am in the habit of pointing that simple fact out to such ignorant baboons, consequences be damned, and God pity the fool who denies this truth.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

[Paralogos]

Oh, yeah, one other comment, which ties into my previous one about the "Phineas" incident and the current news story. Desecration of cemeteries has proved to be a reliable attention-getting device in France. Tombstones get knocked over and spray-painted by teenage vandals in the US and in other European countries, too. But it barely makes the local press (like Phineas' axe attack on the Muslim Arab). In France, it's a media hot-button issue, guaranteed to make the national papers and very possibly even the evening TV news. In at least some cases, bored French teenagers with no particular political or racial agenda have found it to be a fun way to stir up some excitement.

I grew up in America in the 60's and 70's. Having lived in France for 15 years now, I remain appalled by the level of anti-Arab racism here, and it's good to see it discussed on this forum. But it's not desecrated tombstones that keep French people of North African descent underemployed, underpaid, disrespected, and trapped in tower-block ghettos.

[GoneAreRepugs1]

Nope, it's old-fashioned hate by the French.

You know, it this happened in a non-christian country, it wouldn't be casually waved off as the work of "teenagers".

[Palemoon]

To me, it does not matter what religion they are, or even nationality. All soldiers deserve respect, whether they were on the winning side or not. It's like that saying "Some gave all, all gave some".

Obviously, I think it would be wrong to blame the entire French nation for this happening. The actions of a very few do not speak for the masses.

[GoneAreRepugs1]

French governments throughout history have a hand in it though.

[stephanemot]

Sadly, such incidents are becoming recurrent in my country.

After 9/11 and Bush's fundamentalist crusade, Europe turned into a silent battlefield where extremists want to reignite the medieval religious wars (fundamentalism from all major religions has been deliberately boosted worldwide :
http://e-blogules.blogspot.com/2007/08/universal-d ... )

France happens to be a key symbol of secularism, and the biggest Muslim and Jewish country in Europe. The Netherland's tradition of tolerance has already torn to pieces by hatred groups, and I'm very much worrying about France.

Bush is going, but Sarkozy is repeatedly caught trying to undermine secularism, and Pope Benedict XVI fueling fundamentalism.

[Radarman]

So this is Bush's fault?

[GoneAreRepugs1]

Not directly, obviously, but his ilk have promoted this kind of behavior and gain from it. And looking at the comments on this blog, they defend it as well.

He might even derive some pleasure by reading about things like this.

[functor]

What else could be expected from French. After all this is the country which fears that foreign immigrants are taking over french culture.

[Smith808]

"what else could be expected from French?"

-- American independence.

[brooklyn11231]

I don't think that's fair. French people and their government have decried this. See this link for more:

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/episodes/young-muslim-and-french/muslim-graves-desecrated-for-third-time/3792/

[dogman44]

How cowardly one must be to direct their hatred upon the heroic dead .

[GoneAreRepugs1]

Bingo.

[BeaglesRule]

Well said.

[steamboat]

Article below why British and Canadians are angry because their WW2 soldiers graves in France vandalized.

www.snopes.com/politics/military/garbage.asp

Article below why an American can be angry because their WW2 soldiers graves in France were vandalized.

http://www.learn-usa.com/of_assistance/Stuter33.htm

[GoneAreRepugs1]

Let's hope you don't forget that a Democratic President declared war on the Nazis while the Republicans criticized him for it.

[BigBagel]

This happened after Pearl Harbor?

[Paralogos]

Well, actually, the Democratic president declared war on Japan, and Hitler foolishly declared war on the US, respecting his alliance with the Japanese. It's not clear that Roosevelt would have had the votes for a declaration of war on Germany at that point.

[BlackWidowPilot]

The creeps responsible for desecrating these graves of muslim soldiers who died defending French liberty in two World Wars are the same quack right wing/fascist creeps who desecrated the graves of the British tommies, American GIs, and Canadians and others who gave their lives fighting for the very same French liberty.

They deserve to be reviled by ALL honest human beings, most especially those of us who had family in that war, who in some cases sacrificed their lives for the cause of liberty, and the continuing freedom of the French people.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

[steamboat]

Leland, myself I don't know, but do you know that our British, Canadian, and US soldiers graves were desecrated by rightwingers and not by anti-American lefties?

[SuperFrenchie]

//desecrated the graves of the British tommies, American GIs, and Canadians //

Except, again, nobody ever desecrated the graves of Brit, American or Canadian soldiers!

Read the snopes article. Except for the desecration of a War Memorial (no tombs, no dead soldiers involved), the rest are false rumors that you are unfortunately helping to spread.

[SuperFrenchie]

So you actually find out it's a rumor, and you still believe it?

Again, not a cemetery, no graves involved, and no Americans involved. It was a War Memorial to the Brits and the graffiti was removed the very afternoon it was done. Nothing to be proud of (assuming some French guy did it, as the police had speculated it may have been done by some Hooligan Brit) but no WW2 American or Brit or Canadian graves were ever vandalized, except in your (apparently very active) imagination.

[BlackWidowPilot]

LOL!!!

"Facts...a­re very difficult things...!­"

- John Adams

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

[steamboat]

But there was vandalism.­......BTW, what vehicle only has a reverse gear? Answer: Any french military vehicle.

[ZimboDude]

Osama will obviously use this as a recruiting tool. Shame on Osama and those morons who desecrated the tombs

[GoneAreRepugs1]

This hate crime was likely carried out by christian french conservatives.

Stop spreading lies. Do you know the hatred that West and North African Muslims have to deal with in France?

By the way, why do you assume that Muslims are going to react violently to this? How could Muslims possibly react to every hateful thing people like the Republicans do against them?

By the way, French citizens of Algerian descent could destroy every landmark in france and it wouldn't make up for the genocide they suffered at the hands of the french christians. BUT THEY HAVEN'T. Who is the victim? Who is the aggressor? Who has decided to forgive and forget? Think about that before you automatically believe whatever is spewed out by Faux News.

[stephanemot]

France is Europe's biggest Muslim and Jewish country, and extremists want to forge a case for mutual hatred.

[Amal]

Hello,

I'm French, and I'm a muslim. First of all, I would like to say that this action do not represent the common attitude of the average french citizen.

But hate crimes towards minorities (religious, ethnical or sexual communities, and also trade unions, opinion leaders or journalists) are soaring.

In fact, since the election of president Sarkozy, the country have turned gloomy and repressive, and racist crimes are awckwardly increasing. Moreover, the administration itself, by a very repressive policy choice are deporting more and more illegal AND legal immigrants abroad.

For that matter, Nicolas SARKOZY has created "the ministry of immigration and national identity"headed by Brice HORTEFEUX. it aims to send away as many strangers as possible, regardless of fundamental rights.By his order, an female illegal immigrant detained in international zone in an airport, had to go into labour with handcuffs, guarded by police officers.

President SARKOZY's policies are very insidious in the way they are implemented, but very brutal in their effects.
He has locked the media and criminalized the right to go on strike and to demonstrate.
He reduced the budget allocated to public services (education, research, social security).

Now, if you add to these political pressures the economical and social crisis the French are struggling against, there's no wonder such awful actions are done. They are nothing but -in a way that do not exempt from any responsability those neo-nazis b******* , of course - the reflect of our sad, sad time. O tempora, O mores

[Parisian]

As a citizen of France I find this action horrific. Our country has a very long way to go to overcome our institutional racism. Our minorities here in Paris are relegated into suburban ghettos which breed unemployment and resentment. The riots of a few years ago were a direct result of now President Sarkozy calling minorities "scum" and the disregard of our minority communities by the government of then-President Chirac of which Sarkozy was an integral part.

The hope of our country, like yours, is in our youth. The vast majority of the young people of France are overcoming the racism of their parents. I also must add, not as a defense of France or of this action, that the Pas-de-Calais region, wher this terrible vandalism happened, is a very right wing region.

We in France are overcoming sexism and homophobia however we must redouble our efforts to absorb all of the minority groups in our country to become part of our nation, its life and its leadership.

[rainbowblue]

This doesn't surprise me. Till the EU lets Turkey in, Europeans can say they are above racism, but their actions speak louder. While this incident was done by a fringe group, let's not forget that Le Penn came close to getting elected President of France a few years ago. While we're at it, let's just see how long it takes for a non French, or non German ethnicity (though native born) to reach high office. If there is one thing that America does better than any other country (because it has to), it's dealing with a diverse population. I'm not saying America is perfect, but we deal openly with diversity issues (for the most part, execptions always exist in a general statement). I'm jelous that Europeans have dealt better with sexism and homophobia, but they have miles to go before dealing better with different ethnicities/races.

(Let's not forget that it was the Europeans who colonized the world and spread the idea that the white man was better. Americans inheritted that attitude and are working faster to get rid of it. Of course class issues are a different story.)

[SuperFrenchie]

//let's not forget that Le Penn came close to getting elected President of France a few years ago. //

Yeah, right. He got beat 18% to 82%. Like you said, that was close! :rolleyes:

//let's just see how long it takes for a non French, or non German ethnicity (though native born) to reach high office. //

Thanks for the lesson but Gratien Candace, a black man, was elected vice-president of the French National Assembly in… 1938.

Gaston Monnerville, a black man, was elected president of the French Senate in… 1959.

Félix Éboué, another black man, was made governor of Guadeloupe in… 1936.

Rachida Dati, the daughter of illiterate Algerian and Moroccan parents, is the current Minister of Justice.

Rama Yade, who was born in Dakar, Senegal, is the current State Secretary in charge of foreign affairs and human rights.

[BlackWidowPilot]

Yes, *and* this despicable desecration of the graves of so many who gave their lives in defense of La Belle France shows that like us, you've still got your work cut out for you.

The vermin who perpetrated this act of desecration have spat upon the sacrifice of every person who has ever worn the uniform of the French Republics and died in defense of your liberty.

Find the culprits and prosecute them to the fullest; justice demands no less of you.

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

[GoneAreRepugs1]

Come on, Chirac continued the tradition of denying the horrors of the era of French colonizaton.

Also, his wife donated money to Kurdish terrorists. Why? So they could use it to buy weapons to kill the Turks who, although they live in a secular republic, are a Muslim ethnic group who will forever be the focus of the antagonism of the French, because of that.

[Riemann]

SuperFrenchie you are a revisionist.

1) LePen did come close to Chirac in the 1st round of the presidential election (LePen 18% to Chirac's 19%)

Don't confuse elected blacks with ethnic appointments. French metropols would never ever elect a black or other ethnicity.

2)Gratien Candance - was not elected vice pres of the national assembly he was appointed and was a representative from Guadaloupe (French conquered caribbean island)

3)Gaston Monnerville - again a rep from a foreign conquered island were slaves were deported by France. was NOT elected to the French Senate by French people but by the blacks of Guyane as a rep of Guyane

4)Félix Éboué: Guadaloupe is a French territory in the caribbean. He was appointed an admistrator to the colony.

5)Rachida Dati: Is also an appointed minister NOT elected. She is also deeply disliked by the French population. AND also the vandalism of the muslim tombs were mainly racial slurs and other insults directed at Rachida Dati

6) Rama Yade,is also an appointed official and YOU ARE A LIAR, she is not state secretary of foreign affairs, she would never be given a real power job of secretary of foreign affairs. She is the minister of human rights (which is a made up job because there are no human rights in France).

[morbie5]

If the EU lets Turkey in, there won't be an EU. It will be just an extension of the Muslim world.

[piul05]

Turkey's history has always been linked to that what we commonly consider "Europe"; not only from the time Byzantium became the capital of the Roman Empire but arguably even before that as Anatolia is considered by many scholars as the place from where Indo-European languages originate (which include Italic, Germanic and Celtic, among others).

So, the EU, if it is to be true to its cultural heritage, which is far more diverse than the Judeo-Christian interpretations many want impose, should invite Turkey in.

[GoneAreRepugs1]

Turkey is more secular than the US right now. Our military is rife with christian fundamentalists making the important decisions. Theirs is a secular institution.

It shows how ignorant and uneducated you are to assume that Muslims are just a monoethnic group.

[BlackWidowPilot]

Wow. I take it seeking empirical facts is not your strong suit...

Leland R. Erickson

Citizen

[MagisterLudi]

Before everyone gets off on the tangent about clash of civilizations.
Chances are a bunch of local teens befuddled by some skin-head music and drunk on cheap beer did this disg-usting thing. In a few days they'll brag to some high school buddy about it.

[soundfury]

Hello??? This was done two times prior. Did you actually read the article?

[MagisterLudi]

You mean if some skin head teenagers get drunk more than once it makes it a universal conspiracy?!

[soundfury]

Hello? This was done two times prior. Did you actually read the article?

[GoneAreRepugs1]

Call it like it is. It's French conservatism.

[Riemann]

If only it was that light of a situation. There is truly something much darker here in France.

[KJLSanDiego]

That was such a horrible thing to do, of course, but I just have to ask if this was a response to what happened in Mumbai, India recently?
I just am always asking "why" in everything in life, sorry for the abundance of curiosity!

[11907281]

Do you think 911 was a response to US foreign policy in Muslim regions, as horrible as it was.

[TheyCalledMeSandN]

i don't think having that sentiment is accepted in public discourse

[TruthAndTheory]

we have to ask why, for everything!

[GoneAreRepugs1]

What happened in Mumbai is part of the ongoing territorial disputes between Pakistan and India.

This is just conservative Muslim Algerian French citizens being treated badly by French christian conservatives, as they have been for quite some time now.