Madoff's Ponzi Scheme Could Cost IRS $17 Billion In Lost Tax Revenue

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RACHEL BECK | December 18, 2008 08:09 PM EST | AP

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Bernard Madoff, chairman of Madoff Investment Securities, returns to his Manhattan apartment after making a court appearance Wednesday, Dec. 17, 2008 in New York. The judge in Madoff's fraud case has set new conditions for his bail, including a curfew and ankle-monitoring bracelet for the disgraced investor. (AP Photo/Jason DeCrow)

NEW YORK — Even Uncle Sam may get burned by Bernard Madoff.

Investors who lost their fortunes in Madoff's alleged Ponzi scheme will end up paying far less in taxes and may even be eligible for refunds, according to accounting experts.

By some estimates, the Internal Revenue Service could be out as much as $17 billion in lost tax revenue.

"This is one more thing federal, state and local officials will have to deal with," said John Berrie, a tax partner at the law firm Bryan Cave in New York City. "It's another heavy box on their back."

In addition, investors may be counting on a federally mandated insurance fund to bail them out, but that program lacks the money to pay for all the claims that are likely to come.

The timing couldn't be worse. Unemployment has surged, meaning fewer workers are paying payroll taxes. And housing prices have dropped, reducing property taxes.

The recession so far has cost the federal government $200 billion in tax revenues for the 12 months that ended in November, according to estimates by Moody's Economy.com.

The Madoff case, which reportedly involves $50 billion, adds another layer to the fiscal crisis gripping the nation.

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In New York, for instance, where thousands of workers have lost jobs on Wall Street and big-name investment firms have tallied massive losses, State Comptroller Thomas P. DiNapoli has estimated tax revenues will be down at least $3.5 billion by March 2010.

In wealthy enclaves nationwide, Madoff's investors are desperately seeking ways to get some of their money back. Some refunds might come from the Securities Investor Protection Corp., an industry-funded organization set up by the government to protect investors from fraud. Investors who qualify could get as much as $500,000 from the SIPC.

But that will not replace the millions of dollars than many lost, and such payments, if they come, will not happen fast. SIPC officials this week said the books of Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC are in complete disarray. It could take six months or more to untangle them.

In addition, there are concerns that SIPC does not have enough money to pay out claims. It currently has $1.6 billion to make payouts, though the agency can tap a $1 billion line of credit and a $1 billion injection from the Treasury Department to get more money.

That's why some investors are considering the option of reporting "theft losses" under the IRS rules. Taxpayers who are defrauded by investment advisers or brokers can claim a deduction, as well as offset tax liabilities from the past.

Under the rules, an investor who lost $20 million with Madoff and whose adjusted gross income was $10 million can claim a theft loss of about $19 million.

To calculate the theft loss, investors must reduce the amount of the loss by 10 percent of their adjusted gross income plus $100, according to Robert Willens, an expert on tax and accounting issues for Wall Street clients.

That theft loss would wipe out the $3.5 million in taxes that would otherwise be payable on the $10 million in income. The losses can be carried back for three years or carried forward for 20 years.

If the losses wipe out current, past or future taxes, the end result is the same: The government loses money.

"I think the $50 billion of Madoff's losses, if they really are that big and we're not sure, could cost the government $15 to $17 billion in lost tax revenues," Willens said.

Investors are not automatically eligible for such deductions. They must prove to the IRS that they cannot recover their Madoff investments. The IRS also has not indicated yet whether Madoff's investors can apply the theft provision.

"The IRS is aware of the situation, but beyond that, we have no comment," the federal agency said in a statement Thursday.

Another potential recourse for investors would be to claim that the past taxes they paid on "fictitious income" from Madoff should be recouped, said Stephen Breitstone, of the law firm Meltzer Lippe Goldstein & Breitstone, who is representing Madoff investors on taxation issues.

The hurdle there is the three-year statute of limitations on amending a tax return, so that would limit investors to only the recent past even if the Madoff fraud existed long before that.

"A lot of investors put all their eggs in one basket, and they have been wiped out, so going back and getting a tax refund might be a remedy for them," Breitstone said.

(This version CORRECTS spelling to Breitstone from Brietstone. Multimedia: An interactive that looks at who is affected by the scandal and how a Ponzi scheme works is available in the _business/ponzi_scheme folder. Moving on general news and financial services.)

NEW YORK — Even Uncle Sam may get burned by Bernard Madoff. Investors who lost their fortunes in Madoff's alleged Ponzi scheme will end up paying far less in taxes and may even be eligible for ...
NEW YORK — Even Uncle Sam may get burned by Bernard Madoff. Investors who lost their fortunes in Madoff's alleged Ponzi scheme will end up paying far less in taxes and may even be eligible for ...
 
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I guess the fact that he cheated charities is good news for the IRS! They pay no taxes. Plus many very wealthy people live on capital gains alone. The tax rate on that is much lower. And, since they will have no future capital gains, their may be no write-offs against future taxable income. There may also be a lot of money invested from off-shore entities that no one will admit to owning. 17 billion is way high. That sounds more like the take from the legal flies swarming on the carcass.

What a sad, sorry, mess.

At least he didn't steal $50 from a 7-11. That would have landed him in the slammer for sure.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:27 PM on 12/25/2008
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I hope he will be assigned a "COURT APPOINTED LAWYER!"

I hope he can not use other people's Millions, stored OFF-SHORE, to hire a DOZEN Lawyers to fight for him so he never serves a day in prison.

He shows NO REGRETS or FEAR!

This is another ENRON with virtually NO ONE serving time!

Will he go after the Off-Shore Funds when released in a couple years?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:15 AM on 12/20/2008
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Clearly BM did not act alone in the massive act, where are arrests of the others that helped him pull this off.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:17 AM on 12/19/2008
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I would think Bernie would be in protective custody where his well-heeled victims couldn't exert a contract against him.

He generally looks so comfy and relaxed, I'm sure his victims aren't happy to see him out and about.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:00 AM on 12/19/2008
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AHH, lighten-up America !

Uncle Bernie made bail, and spit in your face !

The typical American is to stupid and/or lazy to care !

Move along America, nothing to see here !

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:12 AM on 12/19/2008
- Danny I'm a Fan of Danny 5 fans permalink

My feelings about the Bernie Madoff's affair is that it just doesn't ... add up. ONE person swindling 50 BILLION dollars, all on his ow -- worse than ENRON? Come on. I smell Rovian PR news to disguise HUGE LOOTING of the U.S. Treasury, aided and abetted by reporters/­analysts/t­alking heads who are PAID or PRESSURED to pretend this scenario is legit.

The Madoff firm was started in the early 1960s. There were standards then, and for many decades afterwards, against this debacle. I just don't buy the story.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:48 PM on 12/18/2008
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Big deal. You could find at least $17 billion between the cushions of the lunch room couch at the Fed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:30 PM on 12/18/2008
- rich misty I'm a Fan of rich misty 1038 fans permalink
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The GOP are cheering another nail in the wooden suit they are trying to force America into

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:49 PM on 12/18/2008
- DrVeruju I'm a Fan of DrVeruju 4 fans permalink

It's not a suit, it 's a coffin

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:32 AM on 12/19/2008
- neuron I'm a Fan of neuron 6 fans permalink

Leaving out the expletive,
I'm happy to be holdin' a dollar...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:44 PM on 12/18/2008

Crush his foreskin!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:40 PM on 12/18/2008
- cobobs I'm a Fan of cobobs 29 fans permalink
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smirking?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:08 PM on 12/18/2008
- jemiltd I'm a Fan of jemiltd 88 fans permalink
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Are Madoff's assets frozen? How many more of his ilk are out there?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:01 PM on 12/18/2008
- beekeeper I'm a Fan of beekeeper 21 fans permalink
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Who gives a crap anymore? Clearly BUSH didnt give a flying frig about my country and neither did anyone else who kept him here to rape the pillars of hard working Americans money.... frankly I think we should have a tax revolt..... sorta

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:53 PM on 12/18/2008
- hark I'm a Fan of hark 103 fans permalink

Why do people on Wall Street make so much money anyway? What do they do? What do they contribute to society? As far as I can figure out, they skim billions upon billions from fat cats manufacturing phony "investments" like derivatives and credit swaps that are nothing more than bets that somehow, because of our crazy system, get monetized and allow them to borrow and leverage real money from the phony money. Nothing is actually created, but fictitious bank accounts that sooner or later implode.

It's hard to feel sorry for the fat cat victims, but the Wall Street investment bankers who steal their money with this phony system and become fat cats themselves are loathsome parasites beneath contempt. All that talent wasted pretending to do something, when they could be putting real money to work in a tangible economy that would prepare us for the challenges of this century.

Our capitalistic system is corrupt and phony beyond measure. we'll never know how much these people have robbed civilization from its future doing nothing but dissipating and stealing all that private capital.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:50 PM on 12/18/2008

Well said. Nothing real was actually made here... no real product, no goods, and no services. Just fake investment vehicles to cash in on commissions in the millions and billions. And then spin them off as fast as possible onto unsuspecting buyers.

When are we going to realize that an economy cannot survive without some sort of manufacturing base, where a tangible good is produced?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:15 PM on 12/18/2008
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"somehow, because of our crazy system"

It's not as complicated as you think it can actually be traced back to the commodity futures modernization act of 2000 that was proposed by republicans and signed by good ole Bill Clinton.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000

an explanation of how this reversed years of regulation and directly led to the meltdown is provided by Steve Kroft in this video that is worth watching http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4546583n

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:04 AM on 12/19/2008
- sloreader I'm a Fan of sloreader 17 fans permalink

Wait, didn't GW and JMc say cutting taxes is ALWAYS good for the economy? You know the rule, their buddies pay no taxes onaccounta their unbelievable and inconveciable wealth trickles down on the rest of us and all. What good fortune.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:36 PM on 12/18/2008
- jdmccl I'm a Fan of jdmccl 4 fans permalink

So if you like higher taxes, you musht be making some bank. This Corrupt Democrat gave millions to corrupt dems and now we forget who he is?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:58 PM on 12/18/2008
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