Obama Stuck Between Kennedy, Patrick On Wind Turbines

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ANDREW MIGA | January 26, 2009 02:37 PM EST | AP

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In this Feb. 24, 2006 file photo, a wind turbine stands generating power next to the Hull, Mass., High School in the shadow of Boston. The Obama administration faces a tough choice in the bitter, long-running fight over plans to build the nation's first offshore wind farm off Cape Cod. Two of President Obama's key allies are on opposite sides: Sen. Edward Kennedy, a leading foe of the project, and Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick. (AP Photo/Stephan Savoia, File)

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama's enthusiasm for alternative energy is being buffeted by two political forces on opposite sides of plans to build the nation's first offshore wind farm off Cape Cod.

A leading foe of the $1 billion project is Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., an early and influential backer of Obama's presidential bid. A strong proponent is Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick, a close friend of Obama and a source for some of his best campaign speech lines.

The plan to erect 130 giant turbines across 25 miles of federal waters in Nantucket Sound poses an early test of the president's energy policy, on stark display Monday with Obama's order to re-examine whether California and other states should be allowed to have tougher auto emission standards to combat a build up of greenhouse gases and his directive for the government to get moving on new fuel-efficiency guidelines for the auto industry.

In the final days of George W. Bush's tenure, the Minerals Management Service issued a report saying the wind farm project poses no major environmental problems, clearing the way for the Obama administration to make a final decision on whether to issue a lease for the project. Reviews by the Federal Aviation Administration and the Interior Department's inspector general are still pending.

During the campaign, Obama had expressed strong support for wind power and indicated he wanted to double renewable energy production over the next three years. But deciding the fate of Cape Wind would force him to choose sides among friends and political allies. Patrick campaigned for Obama. Kennedy, despite being stricken with a brain tumor, is a critical backer of Obama's agenda, including health care reform.

Kennedy has fought the Cape Wind project for eight years, arguing it would kill birds and endanger sea life while imperiling the scenic area's tourism and fishing industries. The turbines would stand 440 feet above sea level when the tallest blades are pointing straight up. The Kennedy family's oceanside Hyannis Port, Mass., compound would have a clear view of the project to be located 4.7 miles offshore, but Kennedy says it is not why he opposes the project.

"The interests of our state have been basically submerged to a special interest developer," Kennedy has said of the project.

Patrick has championed the wind farm, embracing it as part of a push to make his state a leader in alternative energy.

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"I haven't come to my conclusions for political reasons; I've come to my conclusions because I'm convinced that the future of our economy is very much connected to the development of a vibrant industry in alternative and renewable energy," Patrick said in announcing his support in 2005 as a gubernatorial candidate.

Project backers are wary of last-minute political meddling. They cite attempts in Congress over the years to derail it, including efforts by Kennedy.

"The opponents have proven to be very crafty and to embrace a scorched-earth approach to fighting this project," said Sue Reid of the Conservation Law Foundation, a conservation group supporting Cape Wind. "Of course we are going to be vigilant."

Kennedy complained there was a rush to approve the project as the Bush administration was departing _ and before federal rules for offshore wind projects have been completed.

There are hundreds of proposals for wind-energy projects across the country, including more than a dozen for offshore projects. Wind energy accounts for only 1 percent of the nation's electricity. A federal report last year said wind energy could generate 20 percent by 2030, with offshore sources accounting for nearly 20 percent of that.

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On the Net:

Minerals Management Service: http://www.mms.gov/offshore/AlternativeEnergy/CapeWind.htm

Cape Wind: http://www.capewind.org/

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama's enthusiasm for alternative energy is being buffeted by two political forces on opposite sides of plans to build the nation's first offshore wind farm off Ca...
WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama's enthusiasm for alternative energy is being buffeted by two political forces on opposite sides of plans to build the nation's first offshore wind farm off Ca...
 
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I think small is probably beautiful here as there are small turbines that are less than 200 ft high.
Now, I don't know what the sound level is with these smaller ones but the larger at 400 ft plus..it's just too much...

And those who want to site these farms don't give a darn about the folks who live close to them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:39 AM on 02/02/2009
- RTIII I'm a Fan of RTIII 79 fans permalink


Detractors who complain about erratic winds and needs for alternative generation to avoid brown-outs are visionless.

What's called for are widely dispersed wind generation interconnected by a "smart" grid. Additionally, electric cars with batteries that need charging are also needed, also widely distributed.

"Big Wind" - if it means large scale wind power generation - is something I can strongly support. However, I am NOT in favor of it in private hands. Private _management_ is perhaps OK, but I want infrastructure owned buy US so we aren't then exploited by our own - energy is too fundamental and at the very least, must be heavily regulated.

I'm even MORE pro-individual generation. There must be a _federal_ law stating that for the interests of the nation, all who generate more than they need may put their power on the grid and get paid for it the same (perhaps minus a TINY fraction for book-keeping, etc) as they would have paid as consumers. This way, when your wind/solar is working and provides more than you need, others get your generation excess, yet when your solar / wind ( / ?) generation is not working, you seamlessly continue with grid power others are providing. THIS is the vision we need...
.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:47 PM on 01/27/2009

I think T Boone Pickens got it right...do wind...WHERE THE WIND IS and not where it isn't...

Where? From Texas to the Dakotas..where it is FLAT and WINDY.

You should see what is happening to North Central Pennsylvania....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:26 AM on 02/02/2009
- cayuse I'm a Fan of cayuse 15 fans permalink
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Can we not have a plan for the amount, alternatives and structure before we get into Green Energy as quickly as we should get out of the oil industry

3000 miles of Tranmission miles from West to East Coast, a Green Energy Industry will populate all the Open Space pushing people to the Big Cities create a big pile of GREEN Crap.

This is not a Green Policy, but a power play to take away free choice. Wealth of green from oil or rich is stupid too. People pay for these ugly farms with 1.2 million of the 2 million cost plus large tax incentives to make the transfer of wealth free to the rich. Farmers get $1000 per windmill per month. Local people pay higher property tax and transmission costs. Cannot even buy the power which is shipped to the East, South West and California for a discount

Why not subsidize individual windmills for 0 electric bills and payback or extra energy. Europe is doing this. A true Energy Policy for Clean, Save and FREE.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:06 PM on 01/27/2009
- LALC I'm a Fan of LALC 4 fans permalink

my repost from elsewhere;

NOT all wind turbines are those big, ugly, noisy things we always think of - some great, rather promising techn. out there! Good article/video of Jay Leno here on HuffPo about his new roof-top wind turbine!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/08/jay-lenos-maglev-wind-tur_n_156192.html

Don't know how much electricity they produce for an average home but you gotta start somewhere!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:54 PM on 01/27/2009
- cayuse I'm a Fan of cayuse 15 fans permalink
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I saw it before. The farmers think they are beautiful and since they are called a wind farm they meet their definition of land use laws. So they don't have to pay back all those tax breaks they have gotten since the homestead days.

The rich are :) LOL, GREEN is always the color of Money.

The Polar Bear and he Indian are crying

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:50 PM on 01/27/2009
- SARGE1 I'm a Fan of SARGE1 31 fans permalink
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Some People Are Truly Clueless The Key To TRUE Energy Independence Is All Sources Combined That Means Wind Solar CNG And Nuclear. Yes Modern Nuclear Plants As In Europe Are Safe And Clean. So All The Nay Sayers Need To Do Un Biased Research Before They Shut Down An Alternate Energy Source. No One Is The Key All Combined Is. So That Is To Say You May Drive An Electric Car Your Neighbor May Drive A Flex-Fuel Vehicle And You Son Could Drive A Hybrid.

-Sarge

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:05 PM on 01/27/2009

WE seriously need to get on with becoming an energy independent nation. We are spending billions upon billions in bail out dollars. Why not spend some of those billions in getting alternative energy projects set up. We could create clean cheap energy, millions of badly needed new green jobs and lessen our dependence on foreign oil all in one fell swoop. I just read an eye opening book by Jeff Wilson called The Manhattan Project of 2009. It would cost the equivalent of 60 cents per gallon to drive and charge an electric car.If all gasoline cars, trucks, and SUV's instead had plug-in electric drive trains, the amount of electricity needed to replace gasoline is about equal to the estimated wind energy potential of the state of North Dakota. Why don't we use some of the billions in bail out money to bail us out of our dependence on foreign oil? This past year the high cost of fuel so seriously damaged our economy and society that the ripple effects will be felt for years to come.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:00 AM on 01/27/2009

20% by 2030 is not good enough. We need better solutions. I thought the Dem's had it all figured out. Now it boils down to stupidity like this.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:46 AM on 01/27/2009
- wdw505 I'm a Fan of wdw505 68 fans permalink

they have nothing figured out

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:20 AM on 01/27/2009
- JulieSA I'm a Fan of JulieSA 165 fans permalink
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The grid can't handle greater than 20% wind/solar with today's technology. They fluctuate too much and can cause brown outs and surges.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:12 AM on 01/27/2009
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In Fantasyland.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:22 AM on 01/28/2009

There's a wind farm in New York State that isn't always up and running...

No problem with the Turbines....

NOT ENOUGH POWER LINES TO HANDLE THE ELECTRICITY GENERATED...

Really smart, right?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:37 AM on 02/02/2009
- prog I'm a Fan of prog 17 fans permalink
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There are many negative environmental effects associated with wind turbines; disruption and death of wildlife is high on this list. I don't think these aspects get enough publicity.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:07 PM on 01/26/2009

Duh....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:12 AM on 01/27/2009
- avocats I'm a Fan of avocats 8 fans permalink

Does anyone know if the wind turbines outside of Copenhagen are cost-effective? We sailed past and through them and didn't find them aesthetically unpleasing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:56 PM on 01/26/2009

Here is my understanding of the economics. The published figures show a cost of just under EUR 50 million and an annual output of about 89 GWh. Half of the turbines are owned by a cooperative and half are owned by a utility company. The coop members appear to get about 7.5% return on their investment, based on full depreciation over a 20-year life, EUR 0.0082/kWh operation and maintenance costs and an estimated average of EUR 0.086/kWh (11 centsUS/kWH) return from the electricity. Part of that return is a government subsidy for renewable energy. The sale price of the electricity is only locked in for the first ten years of operation (ends next year?), thereafter it will be at market price.

http://www.middelgrund.com

Unfortunately the site seems to want people to use IE.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:34 PM on 01/26/2009

The rubber now meets the road for Barrack Obama. Our national energy policies have produced profound security and economic problems. The demands of this situation are similar to that of World War 2 where people were asked to sacrifice. I would suggest that we are lending the area of Horseshoe shoals to the national effort for the next twenty years. There is no doubt that today's wind generators will be obsolete technology by then. The monopile foundations can then be easily removed and the shifting sands of the shoal would cover any evidence that they were ever there.
It is also important to note that any mention of this area being pristine is completely false. Federal and State management of the Vineyard and Nantucket Sounds fisheries has allowed the depletion of most marine species as well as the destruction of their respective environments.
President Obama must look beyond the false assertions made by Senator Kennedy, Congressman Delahunt, and the others who spread false information and allow this project to be built as soon as possible. It is vital to our nation's future.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:37 PM on 01/26/2009

How is wind power going to help the economy?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:34 PM on 01/26/2009

New factories producing wind turbine will create jobs and small fraction of the money that goes to importing foreign oil will be saved.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:07 PM on 01/26/2009

Yeah, we got one here opening. It will employ 75- 110 people. But don't worry, paying more for electric(lots) will offset the savings in gas(none).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:03 AM on 01/27/2009
- JulieSA I'm a Fan of JulieSA 165 fans permalink
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Good point, but I was driving around the Port of Corpus Christi last fall, and the port area is full of turbine tower and blade parts from overseas. I watched a ship offloading some tower sections. The steel parts are mostly made overseas from what I can tell. One yard was full of sections from S Korea.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:57 AM on 01/27/2009
- sheila I'm a Fan of sheila 41 fans permalink

Industrial Wind is a developer boondoggle. I agree with Kennedy. Don't get me started about how the Kennedy family is investing in, and heavily pushing OTHER environmentally and financially irresponsible "renewable" energy projects - I have no love for their hypocrisy, only for Sen. Kennedy's insights on this single project.

Big Wind is erratic, wasteful, and until storage solutions are perfected, not particularly useful, since backup gas generators must be built and on-call for the inevitable down periods. the Industrial Wind power plants by Palm Springs average 15% of rated capacity, so when they brag about "400 megawatts" or "150,000 homes", what they really mean is 60 unpredictable megawatts and 22,500 homes. big difference.

point of use solar is the answer in the meantime. let's get every building with a sunny roof covered NOW, and see where storage stands when we are done, if we even need any more power. DOE says we won't...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:13 PM on 01/26/2009
- JScott I'm a Fan of JScott 20 fans permalink

Always wondered if they could make em look more like windmills and be nearly as efficient, as turbines there might be less objection.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:09 PM on 01/26/2009
- LALC I'm a Fan of LALC 4 fans permalink

my repost from other threa;

NOT all wind turbines are those big, ugly, noisy things we always think of - some great, rather promising techn. out there! Good article/video of Jay Leno here on HuffPo about his new roof-top wind turbine!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/08/jay-lenos-maglev-wind-tur_n_156192.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:51 PM on 01/27/2009

So the choice is between the view from the Kennedys' vacation home and keeping campaign promises?

I don't understand what the difficulty is here

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:33 PM on 01/26/2009
- cayuse I'm a Fan of cayuse 15 fans permalink
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Not hardly. Give the people the windmills and solar power on their roofs. So they get free energy and can sell the excess back to the grid. CLEAN, FREE, SAFE. Insead of keep the rich rich, grock it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:28 PM on 01/27/2009
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Sorry Ted,but your precious view has to come in second. Sacrifices must be made.

Aren't you always saying that?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:17 PM on 01/26/2009
- gevan I'm a Fan of gevan 18 fans permalink

Propeller bladed turbines that must turn with the wind rather than column turbines are a really stupid way to go.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:00 PM on 01/26/2009
- Kasandra I'm a Fan of Kasandra 5 fans permalink

I agree, horizontal windmills are much better.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:57 PM on 01/26/2009
- LALC I'm a Fan of LALC 4 fans permalink

Current wind turbines, the tall, white, noisy things have caused some serious problems for birds & bats. They have difficulty with blade rotation detection. Appears to me that some of these columnar wind turbines wouldn’t have that effect.

Conceptual idea & video from MagLev
http://magturbine.com/
http://www.maglevturbine.com/

Inhabitat – this page has link numerous prior to comments section. Micro Wind Turbines & HELIX Wind Turbines look quite interesting too.
http://www.inhabitat.com/2007/11/26/super-powered-magnetic-wind-turbine-maglev/

http://newenergynews.blogspot.com/2007/11/china-in-big-mag-lev-wind-build.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:22 PM on 01/27/2009
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