Bailed Out Banks Sought Foreign Workers For High-Paying Jobs: AP

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FRANK BASS and RITA BEAMISH | February 1, 2009 10:47 PM EST | AP

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In this Sept. 26, 2007, file photo Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, talks to reporters in his Capitol Hill office in Washington. U.S. banks that are collecting billions of dollars in taxpayer loans to stay afloat sought government permission to import thousands of foreign workers for high-paying jobs in the United States, an Associated Press investigation has found. The job losses anger lawmakers like Sen. Charles Grassley, who is pushing legislation to make employers recruit American workers first, along with other reforms to the visa program. (AP Photo/Lawrence Jackson, File)

SANTA CLARA, Calif. — Major U.S. banks sought government permission to bring thousands of foreign workers into the country for high-paying jobs even as the system was melting down last year and Americans were getting laid off, according to an Associated Press review of visa applications.

The dozen banks now receiving the biggest rescue packages, totaling more than $150 billion, requested visas for more than 21,800 foreign workers over the past six years for positions that included senior vice presidents, corporate lawyers, junior investment analysts and human resources specialists. The average annual salary for those jobs was $90,721, nearly twice the median income for all American households.

As the economic collapse worsened last year _ with huge numbers of bank employees laid off _ the numbers of visas sought by the dozen banks in AP's analysis increased by nearly one-third, from 3,258 in the 2007 budget year to 4,163 in fiscal 2008.

The AP reviewed visa applications the banks filed with the Labor Department under the H-1B visa program, which allows temporary employment of foreign workers in specialized-skill and advanced-degree positions. Such visas are most often associated with high-tech workers.

It is unclear how many foreign workers the banks actually hired; the government does not release those details. The actual number is likely a fraction of the 21,800 foreign workers the banks sought to hire because the government only grants 85,000 such visas each year among all U.S. employers.

During the last three months of 2008, the largest banks that received taxpayer loans announced more than 100,000 layoffs. The number of foreign workers included among those laid off is unknown.

Foreigners are attractive hires because companies have found ways to pay them less than American workers.

Companies are required to pay foreign workers a prevailing wage based on the job's description. But they can use the lower end of government wage scales even for highly skilled workers; hire younger foreigners with lower salary demands; and hire foreigners with higher levels of education or advanced degrees for jobs for which similarly educated American workers would be considered overqualified.

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"The system provides you perfectly legal mechanisms to underpay the workers," said John Miano of Summit, N.J., a lawyer who has analyzed the wage data and started the Programmers Guild, an advocacy group that opposes the H-1B system.

David Huber of Chicago is a computer networking engineer who has testified to Congress about losing out on a 2002 job with the former Bank One Corp. He learned later the bank applied to hire dozens of foreign visa holders for work he said he was qualified to do.

"American citizenship is being undermined working in our own country," Huber said in an AP interview.

Beyond seeking approval for visas from the government, banks that accepted federal bailout money also enlisted uncounted foreign workers, often in technology jobs, through intermediary companies known as "body shops." Such businesses are the top recipients of the H-1B visas.

The use of visa workers by ailing banks angers Sen. Chuck Grassley of Iowa, the senior Republican on the Senate Finance Committee.

"In this time of very, very high unemployment ... and considering the help these banks are getting from the taxpayers, they're playing the American taxpayer for a sucker," Grassley said in a telephone interview with AP.

Grassley, with Sen. Richard Durbin, D-Ill., is pushing for legislation to make employers recruit American workers first, along with other changes to the visa program.

Banks turned to foreign workers before the current economic crisis, said Diane Casey-Landry, chief operating officer for the American Bankers Association. The group said a year ago that demand exceeded the pool of qualified workers in areas like sales, lending and bank administration. Now with massive layoffs, the situation is different, Casey-Landry said.

The issue takes on a higher profile as the government injects billions of dollars into the economy and President Barack Obama pushes for massive government spending to create jobs nationwide, on top of the $700 billion already approved for the ailing banks.

"You're using taxpayer dollars and there's an expectation that there are benefits to the U.S.," said Ron Hira, a national expert on foreign employment and assistant public policy professor at the Rochester Institute of Technology. "What you're really doing is leaking away those jobs and benefits that should accrue to the taxpayers."

But New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg believes more access to "worldwide talent pools" will better position U.S. financial companies against global competitors, spokesman Andrew Brent said.

U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services declined to disclose details on foreign workers hired at the banks that have received federal bailouts. The AP has requested the information under the U.S. Freedom of Information Act.

Nearly all the banks the AP contacted also declined to comment on their foreign hiring practices. Arlene C. Roberts, spokeswoman for State Street Corp. of Boston, which has received $2 billion in bailout money, said the company has reduced H-1B hiring in recent years, and just hires for specialized positions.

Jennifer Scott of Yreka, Calif., a retired technical systems manager at Bank of America in Concord, Calif., said in 2004 she oversaw foreign employees from a contractor firm that also sent overnight work to employees in India.

"It had nothing to do with a shortage, but they didn't want to pay the U.S. rate," she said, adding that the quality of the work was weak. "It's all about numbers crunching."

___

Associated Press writer Frank Bass in East Dover, Vt., contributed to this report.

SANTA CLARA, Calif. — Major U.S. banks sought government permission to bring thousands of foreign workers into the country for high-paying jobs even as the system was melting down last year and ...
SANTA CLARA, Calif. — Major U.S. banks sought government permission to bring thousands of foreign workers into the country for high-paying jobs even as the system was melting down last year and ...
 
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Lets look at it this way. About 30 years ago. The skilled jobs mostly went to American citizens because they were the only ones with the skills required. Over the passage of time, people from other corners of the world have acquired the same skills now and as a result, there is a greater supply of skilled labor. As the whole world is slowly becoming one global village, it is only reasonable that the barriers of nationality, geographical location etc are eroded and workforce of countries becomes truly global.

There is no point in complaining against it. If you are employed for an International firm, u are currently competing for a job with the workforce of the whole world and not just your country. It is the fundamental concept of Supply and Demand at play here. Since there is a greater supply of skilled workforce, the salaries for skilled labor are falling as it should. That is exactly why Foreign workers are being hired, as they bring the same skills to the table for a lower dollar price and I dont see anything wrong about it. This is a free market isnt it??

As an American citizen, the way to combat it would be to prove yourself more valuble at work and upgrading your skill sets to match the competition from the world. Instead of that, its disheartening to see that the American public is running away from competition and complaining to government.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:36 PM on 02/17/2009

[The American Bankers Association] said a year ago that demand exceeded the pool of qualified workers in areas like sales, lending and bank administration.

Qualified workers? Sales, lending and bank administration are ordinary office jobs.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:32 AM on 02/04/2009
- Solja I'm a Fan of Solja 104 fans permalink
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What ever happened to the slogan, "Buy American"?

Part of the problem is that there is nothing American to buy anymore. Everything is from another country because we no longer make anything anymore, except cars, and nobody is buying them.

I say our government needs to stop letting more people in as long as people here are unemployed. Hire US first!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:01 PM on 02/03/2009
- Oonagh I'm a Fan of Oonagh 29 fans permalink

It is time that we have corporations bring back the jobs that they have sent overseas and no more bringing people into the country to replace American workers.... they sell their products and services here... America first...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:41 PM on 02/03/2009
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I've seen this first hand. When I temped at Citigroup in NYC, I was there to simply play assistant. My background is in marketing but in a month's time, I learned NASD Rules and Regulations and was fielding calls from branch managers and sales assistants and so on. In essence, I was doing the same job as the person I thought I was just helping. This person was making serious money and was going to NYU on the company dime. This is truly where I would have begged to be. I would have easily accepted 70k if the pay rate was 90k. It's better than nothing and it's better than the 40k I MIGHT be making if this job interview goes well on Thursday.

But, what really pissed me off about this person is that her English was worse than the Mexicans most of us complain about. I was even asked to check their emails before sending because "my english no so good." This person was of Eastern European descent.

Whenever I see an issue about immigration, I remind people that the top tier jobs in the US are being filled by Eastern Europeans, not Hatians, Cubans, or Mexicans that get sent back home.

The entire visa program ought to be abolished.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:14 PM on 02/03/2009
- priorato I'm a Fan of priorato 4 fans permalink

I am disgusted, and I do not care to hear any excuses or sentiments about my being a racist or xenophobe. The bottom line is this: institutional investors drive our economy, and they want a return on their investments. Everything else flows from that...

Let me briefly explain: labor is the largest expense for business, so any way you can lower these costs (layoffs, increased productivity, hiring foreigners for less than domestic workers; combining job responsibilities, etc.) you have a better chance of improving profitability. Investors do not care about layoffs -- hell, sometimes stock prices go up because of them! Bringing in a bunch of foreigners who will work for $70K instead of $90K makes sense for business. Firing 5 people and combining their jobs in the 1 remaining person makes great sense for business. Workers routinely get screwed to save the bottom line... AND that is what it's all about.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:27 PM on 02/03/2009
- Oonagh I'm a Fan of Oonagh 29 fans permalink

O.k. then sell their products in the country they produce them in.... American Express uses India for their back office and most of the time you end up speaking with someone with a heavy accent that is difficult to understand.. these jobs should be in the U.S.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:48 PM on 02/03/2009
- Free2Speak I'm a Fan of Free2Speak 7 fans permalink
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This is just pathetic.....Also I just read an article in Newsweek about Silicon Valley,there in Santa Clara,and CEO's commented about how one of their top priorities is allowing students from abroad who graduate here become permanent residents if employed at their company.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:07 PM on 02/03/2009

why not? America was built by immigrants, and will continue to be built by immigrants if it is to stay competitive. The flow of talent doesn't just work one way. Right now, taxpayers in other parts of the world can say the exact same thing about American expats working in their country. We all have to live with the fact that a largely capitalistic system will operate on cycles with large swings.

It is true that the H1-B process is broken. If anything, the INS should be stapling green-cards to all diplomas of PhDs whom the taxpayer has put through grad school and stay where they can make a real difference instead of having them go home to their home countries where their skills are put to waste because the economy/technology has yet to keep up with all the skills they've acquired. This also has the added benefit of putting them on a level footing when it comes to competing for jobs, as opposed to being left in limbo for anywhere from 12 months to six years (if your're lucky enough to last that long), living at the mercy of some lottery system.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:45 AM on 02/04/2009
- slowtono I'm a Fan of slowtono 5 fans permalink

Get rid of these asses!!!! Send them to jail. NOW!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:10 PM on 02/03/2009

Aye, the xenophobia!

Thanks hpobserver for the info. Some posters need to get their facts straight before they begin their rants. This article is about high-wage workers, not low-paid workers undermining minimum wage and creating more American unemployment. Well, I guess they still are helping the unemployment numbers a bit, but not through low-wage demands. The requirements for H1 visas are quite strict... and they usually go out to highly skilled individuals. Yah, surprise, these companies want to pay talented individuals to work here. There is already a cap in place, so it's not a free-for-all like some may think.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:53 PM on 02/03/2009
- Petesdaddy I'm a Fan of Petesdaddy 4 fans permalink

Okay, so you're saying that there is not enough talent in the US to fill these jobs so we have to import these highly skilled people? So why is that? Could it be that our education system is so busted that we are not supplying the market with people who have the required skills sets? If that's the case, then this is proof positive that we have to put a LOT of money into our education system.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:26 PM on 02/03/2009

I'm not blaming the education system here. It's pretty evident that higher education here is top-notch since thousands of foreigners come here to study each year.

I think the issue is with companies locating the talent. Of course, if they can find the required personnel here, they probably would rather hire US citizens. Work visas cost quite a lot to obtain...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:56 PM on 02/03/2009
- Oonagh I'm a Fan of Oonagh 29 fans permalink

Hogwash... These companies can make their profits with American workers, not as much as they would make if they made it in a third world country. but they have to realize that we are the country of consumers and if they continually take the jobs off shore we will not have the ability to buy...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:23 PM on 02/03/2009
- hpobserver I'm a Fan of hpobserver 4 fans permalink
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The title of the report is sort of misleading. It says in the article the banks sought 28000 applications over the last 6 years ! Maybe in better economic times. If they did this after asking for bailout money, that would be stupid.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:22 PM on 02/03/2009
- hpobserver I'm a Fan of hpobserver 4 fans permalink
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Sorry, in my previous comment, it should be USCIS, not UCIS.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:21 PM on 02/03/2009
- hpobserver I'm a Fan of hpobserver 4 fans permalink
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I pointed this out somewhere else as a reply to a comment, I thought I should reiterate this:

I think that in these economic times, firms should not be hiring H1-Bs. However, it's important to know that H1 Bs cannot be paid less - the premise of the article they are hired because they are cheap is factually wrong.
According to the law:
The H1 B applicant has to be paid at least the same as a U.S. citizen is paid for a particular position, at that particular workplace address (or within a 30 mile radius of that address) .
They have to obtain certification from the Labor Department of the state that the salary offered is not less than the prevailing wage for that position.
They have to post this application, with the salary, at a public area at the workplace (such as a cafeteria) for a period of time.
If the H1-B individual has to work somewhere else for the company, not just another town, but even 30 miles away, a fresh "labor condition" certification must be obtained to make sure they are not paid less than americans at the new place.
You can look all this up easily at UCIS website or search for "H1-B labor condition" or something.
I think we need decent debate, not xenophobia.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:20 PM on 02/03/2009
- DanBest I'm a Fan of DanBest 19 fans permalink

You left out a critical issue that wouldn't appear on the site. Does this worker have the right to look for other work or are they essentially an indendtured servent who can be sent back to their home country at the employers discretion? Go check on the answer to that question and get back to us.

Incidentally favoring American workers over foriegn workers is not Xenophobic. But claiming you are the voice of reason and calling others xenophobic is definitely dickish.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:05 PM on 02/03/2009

They are not supposed to be paid less, but they are paid less and they take less pay. The Justice Dept is supposed to enforce this, but does not. The PERM process is supposed to ensure no American worker suffers and "adverse" effect from the employment of a foreigner, but this is circumvented by the employer, the labor dept., the justice dept. Read more about the PERM system here: http://www.foreignlaborcert.doleta.gov/... It's really f))ck*d because the labor dept is in cahoots with the employers. Lots of Americans are bypassed for these jobs; we never even know about them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:35 PM on 02/03/2009

It is very easy for foreign companies to circumvent the legal wage guidelines in the US. There aren't too many companies that directly hire H-1s any more...they hire foreign workers through out sourcing firms which are not US based. The outsourcing firms pay their associates the prevailing wages in their home countries and then charge the US'client' a fraction of what other, local (American) talent would. For instance an American analyst would charge 120/hr but someone from another country could be billed at 65/hr and the outsourcing firm would still clear a tidy profit after paying them $40/hr !

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:53 PM on 02/03/2009

To get around the law to post these jobs, a company will first pick the person they want to hire. Then tailor the job posting to fit only the chosen worker by adding enough of the skills, experience and education to limit the job applicants. I've seen job postings that look more like resumes.

It's incredibly naive to think that these laws are voluntarily followed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:06 AM on 02/04/2009
- LauraD I'm a Fan of LauraD 47 fans permalink

Are they TRYING to come off as the most insensitive, stupid, unethical, heartless, SOBs on the planet?

Are they making an actual effort at losing all their customers and being forced to shut down?

Will they share some of whatever they have been smoking?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:21 AM on 02/03/2009
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Well that only makes sense. See, the unemployed Americans who would have had those jobs can not pay the taxes to support the TARP program so it's better to outsource to a cheaper labor market.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:37 AM on 02/03/2009
- ssughrue I'm a Fan of ssughrue 2 fans permalink

I live this nightmare every day. I am a Software Engineer at Schwab still employed because my skills and proprietary knowledge is not replacable right now. My American Manager got laid off last week. They laid off about 500 employees last week, all American. They kept all the cheap labor from Indian and China (H-1B). I now have a Manager from India who is not even in the same city I work in. She has 50 people listed under her, and I counted the names of these employees and found 46 Indian or Chinese names. There are only 4 people (including me) who are U.S. citizens. When I go to work, there is a big room I work in with about 100 cubicles. I can count the number of U.S. citizens on one hand. All my American friends have been laid off in the past year or had their contracts expire. If I woke up there in 2000 and someone told me I was in India, I would believe them. These Corporate Elite are traitors of the highest order. They are destroying all job opportunities for college educated and intelligent Americans to make more money. Calling them Machiavellian is an insult to Machiavelli.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:22 AM on 02/03/2009

First, I dont get why you would assume just by looking at the names that they are all non-Americans, they could be naturnal born citizens, naturalized citizens or legal residents with foreign sounding names. Second, if the Company's home office is registered in the US, regulators should insist that 80 to 90% of the workforce should be locals and the pay scales/benefits should first be competetive and in line with their field, and they should be made public. If they are forced to pay an H1B applicant the same as you would a U.S. citizen, they will opt to employ the citizen since its less of a hassle.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:29 AM on 02/03/2009
- hpobserver I'm a Fan of hpobserver 4 fans permalink
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BTW, that IS the law. The H1 B applicant has to be paid at least the same as a U.S. citizen is paid for a particular position, at that particular workplace address (or within a 30 mile radius of that address) .
They have to obtain certification from the Labor Department of the state that the salary offered is not less than the prevailing wage for that position.
They have to post this application, with the salary, at a public area at the workplace (such as a cafeteria) for a period of time.
If the H1-B individual has to work somewhere else for the company, not just another town, but even 30 miles away, a fresh "labor condition" certification must be obtained to make sure they are not paid less than americans at the new place.
To summarize: H1 Bs cannot be paid less - the premise of the article they are hired because they are cheap is factually wrong.
I personally think in these economic times firms should not hire H1-Bs, that is only fair. But I also think a lot of people are not informed about the law and go off into a frenzy of xenophobia instead of having a decent debate. And thanks for pointing out that surnames mean nothing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:06 PM on 02/03/2009
- TLaw I'm a Fan of TLaw permalink

What is the origin/ethnicity of YOUR surname? What is an American surname???

Racism, thy name is ssughrue. Wait, that name doesn't "look" American!


Gosh, you people are ridiculously INCREDIBLE!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:50 AM on 02/03/2009

You are so right and I understand how furious it is to work in a place like Schwab. I have met tech personnel from Schwab and heard the horror stories. I have also seen and know personally individuals in your same situation all over San Jose, Sunnyvale, and Mountain View (eBay, PayPal, Yahoo, Juniper Networks, Cisco, Nortel, Hitachi, Intel, Hewlett-Packard, IBM, Sun Microsystems).

What really amazes me is how very, very poorly these companies do within a few years of this type of business model. Unless you live in this area and know what's going on and connect the dots, you kinda think that "Oh, these companies are going thru a tough time." But the internal dymanics and business decisions (let alone the technical decisions) made in these companies are HORRIFIC!!!
I wish someone would write a book about it. eBay's recent downfall (hired lots of H1B/L1 in last 4 years), Yahoo's troubles, Sun's inablity to be profitable despite lots and lots of outsourcing and foreight workers, and Cisco's stock not rising in 9 years.... (it's hovered at $20 or lower for nearly a decade.)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:41 PM on 02/03/2009

Both ssughrue and brighterlight are so right. And it's not limited to Silicon Valley. American Airlines has moved most of its software development and maintenance from Oklahoma and Texas to South America. The experience is like every other company: less labor costs and even less productive work.

Does anyone know of a company that doesn't do this? I would like to see if I could support them by buying whatever they sell!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:15 AM on 02/04/2009
- Vinca I'm a Fan of Vinca 6 fans permalink

I'VE PROBABLY SAID THIS A THOUSAND TIMES, IT'S ABOUT JOBS, THE WAY OUR AMERICAN WORKERS, HAVE BEEN UNDERMINED, BY COMPANIES, MOVING OVERSEAS, OR BRINGING IN WORKERS, IS SHAMFULL, THAT'S MAIMLY WHY WE HAVE A RECESSION, IT'S ALL ABOUT G-R-E-E-d

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:44 AM on 02/05/2009
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