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Wall St., analysts: Too few details in Bailout 2.0

MARTIN CRUTSINGER   02/10/09 07:05 PM ET   AP

Geithner

WASHINGTON — The new bank rescue plan landed with a thud on Wall Street.

Worried that the revamped financial bailout was far too short on details, especially on how to clean up the books of the banks, investors drove the Dow Jones industrials tumbling more than 380 points.

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner announced a plan that could send as much as $2 trillion coursing through the banking system and the broader economy and stressed the government would act to stop "catastrophic failure" of financial institutions.

But investors fretted that the government was nowhere near untangling the crisis that has paralyzed the financial system and hammered the economy. Wall Street suffered its worst day since Dec. 1.

"The good news is they are going to spend a trillion dollars," said James Cox, managing partner at Harris Financial Group. "The bad news is they don't know how."

The administration called it the Financial Stability Plan, abandoning the old TARP, or Troubled Asset Relief Program. And while it may have a new name, investors were also quick to point out a whole new set of problems.

Besides worrying the plan is too light on details, Wall Street seemed concerned it does not solve the problem of how to get the soured mortgage-backed assets off banks' books _ the heart of the crisis.

Asked about the negative investor response, President Barack Obama told ABC News that Wall Street "is hoping for an easy out on this thing, and there is no easy out."

For now, the Obama administration says it does not need more than the second $350 billion chunk of the bailout fund, but it concedes that may change.

"We are going to have to adapt our program as conditions change. We will have to try things we never tried before," Geithner said. "We will make mistakes. We will go throughout periods in which things get worse and progress is uneven or interrupted."

The new approach aims to use both public and private cash to buy soured assets off the books of the banks. But the plan provides almost no detail on how the assets would be priced _ only that it would be left to the private sector. Pricing the bad assets is key, in part because pricing them too low would force banks to take devastating writedowns.

It's far from clear that the government approach, using federal loans to entice private buyers to take the soured assets, will work.

"Most fund managers see these assets and don't want to touch them," said Christopher Whalen, managing director of Institutional Risk Analytics. "They can't sell them."

The government will also use some of the bailout cash to try to kick-start as much as $1 trillion in lending _ hoping that getting the private market for bundled loans humming again will unlock credit in the rest of the economy.

Geithner also wants to put all banks with more than $100 billion in assets through a "stress test" to determine whether they can handle the losses that could come from an extended economic downturn.

But details on that part of the plan were sketchy, too, and some observers worried that the process would be messy. It also raises legal questions about what would happen to banks that refuse to participate.

"Let's say they do a stress test and conclude that a bank is insolvent. The bank could say, 'No, that's not the case and we're going to challenge you,'" banking analyst Bert Ely said. "There's a potential for a lot of litigation."

Banking industry officials reacted with caution.

"There are a lot of details that have not been provided yet, and the devil is in the details," said Scott Talbott, senior vice president of government affairs for the Financial Services Roundtable.

Critics of how the Bush administration handled the first half of the bailout say it doled out money to banks with few strings attached and failed to get banks to resume more normal lending.

It will be at least a week before the Obama administration provides details of how it plans to help homeowners. Geithner did say the government will use $50 billion of bailout money for that, and suggested it would help reduce mortgage principal and lower mortgage rates.

Even so, "There's not a hell of a lot here to get a sense of," Sen. Robert Menendez, D-N.J., told Geithner in an appearance later Tuesday before the Senate Banking Committee.

Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama, the committee's ranking Republican, faulted Geithner for "a conceptual plan with many details yet to be filled in."

Geithner said the administration was laying out the "broad architecture" for the program with more details to come as the new plans are designed. He stressed the urgency of moving boldly, given the troubles facing the economy and the financial system.

Details of the new bailout plan came as the Senate passed Obama's $838 billion economic stimulus plan, clearing the way for talks with the House on a compromise measure.

In his speech outlining the plan, Geithner stressed the huge $1 trillion figures represented loans that would ultimately be repaid. And he said the cost of doing nothing would be far higher.

"The complete collapse of our financial system would be incalculable for families, for businesses and for our nation," Geithner said.

Consumer advocates, who had unsuccessfully pressed the Bush administration to help individual borrowers, saw some of the changes as welcome.

"Certainly the flavor has changed and that's encouraging, but we need the meat on the bone here," said John Taylor, chief executive of the National Community Reinvestment Coalition, a consumer group in Washington.

_____

Associated Press Writers Alan Zibel, Stevenson Jacobs and Jim Kuhnhenn contributed to this report.

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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
AlwaysaLiberal
09:49 PM on 02/10/2009
Why are we listening to Wall street analysts again?
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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08:16 PM on 02/10/2009
"The Banks" --- is that USB, Chase, BOA, and the merging major players? They have plenty of money to lend the consumer,
by BankCard. In fact, there is plenty of money to lend by BC from non-banks, VISA/MC/Discovery/AE all collecting their 3% fees for balance transfer, enticing would-be borrowers with reduced interest rates for 6 months and a year, with fees and acceleration clauses available at their whim. They can do anything they want with your loan after you take it,.....and will.
WILL ---- accelerate your interest rate to 28.99% if you are one day late and NO renegotiation. It's like Musical Bank Cards, "we all fall down". They got all the regulations that would fall under usury, "the money changers at the temple" doctored to the 9's making you, MrMs/Mrs America: indebted slave, they the feudal money masters.
We need to buy toxic assets all-right, nearly every American is carrying 7-20K in BC debt, all riding the dangerous edge of the rules designed for account failure. The poor banks and CC Companies are not really loaning any money, its all fractional. ANNNNND the Bushies most importantly changed it so that whenever possible, by-pass being cut as unsecured debt in Bankruptcy. That's one of the links that Obama could deal with, we call it REGULATION!!!!!!!!!!!! Just like Toxic R.E.'s refinance the debt, set back the term, reduce the monthly payment and the books clean themselves. NO MONEY SPENT.
08:07 PM on 02/10/2009
I figure the first $350 billion that we gave the banks was just a gift for them to squander as they pleased. Well, they did that. Now the day of reckoning is coming. When they stop paying their executors huge amounts of money for killing their own companies and their stockholderse, don't have fancy parties in Vegas, etc., maybe they will see the light. I doubt it. As far as I'm concerned, if the bank can't make it, close it and see to it that each executors doesn't get a cent. Maybe I'm hard-nosed but the day has come when the banks have got to fall into place and help themselves.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
DACC
Old Foxes want no tutors
04:25 PM on 02/10/2009
June
Obviously you aspire towards a career in writing.
Good luck with that
I am now logging off
maybe you can find someone else to argue with
and post your lengthy, void of substance messages to
but I have tired of your game.

Have fun though!!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
junebuginFL
04:11 PM on 02/10/2009
DACC See Profile I'm a Fan of DACC I'm a fan of this user permalink
Please expand your horizons as to where you are receiving your news. PLEASE

Just yesterday there were people with solid credit histories who are being denied loans for Recreational Vehicles in Indiana. Just yesterday it was announced the credit markets have frozen for businesses and individuals alike. You are not being exposed to the entire truth and therefore in your dim view of current events you do need to be proven wrong, very wrong.


Alert the media---someone could not get a loan! Gee, maybe banks should have tightened up their restrictions sooner. You want to know why, bc they were bankrolling everything with the appreciation of home values and selling it for a quick buck. I think they knew they would get bailed out. So why not keep business as usual.

Now things are different so lets spend 800 billion to solve everyone's problem. More will come out and this will be an embarrassment to the party in power.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
DACC
Old Foxes want no tutors
04:16 PM on 02/10/2009
Ya know I've tried, lord knows I've tried with you, but I give up. You are not only misguided and misinformed but you have this sick self-righteousness in your being wrong!! Live in the comfort of your home with the mortgage and your job that you have. Your fellow countrymen clearly don't need your help because obviously you don't possess a scintilla of compassion which would be required to offer such help. Just skip off into your oblivious "oz-like" perspective and don't worry about anyone else. The rest of us will ensure they'll be okay.
04:35 PM on 02/10/2009
the (stimulus package)... is a separate package.... from the (bank bailout package)...don't confuse or be confused........please
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
junebuginFL
03:59 PM on 02/10/2009
DACC, you still have not answered my question, where does this bill help you or your neighbor?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
4akinderworld
04:06 PM on 02/10/2009
Maybe DACC got tired of waiting and logged off.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
DACC
Old Foxes want no tutors
04:12 PM on 02/10/2009
I did answer this prior but if you need some repetition I will oblige.
I do not require assistance personally.
Let me toss out this scenario for you
I work in a hospital where our patient visits are growing at an alarming rate.
In recent weeks 32-37% of the patients have lost jobs and subsequently
lost health care. So now we are required to maintain twice the staff to meet the
needs of the increased patient base while garnering 30-37% less revenue to
cover overhead costs. How long do you think a business can sustain
under such conditions? As the jobless rate climbs those numbers will
only erode further. That's one business, ONE. I live in a State which is being
touted as the hardest hit area in terms of foreclosures. Where do you suppose
these people are going for shelter or clothing or food? Is there a viable job market
for them to re-enter in hopes of reversing their despair? There are businesses closing
every day here and we are in our busy tourist season right now. Lord knows what will happen
in March here. You need more???
04:49 PM on 02/10/2009
Why does the government tie jobs to health care? Does your job pay for your car insurance?

How do you get companies to invest to create new jobs? I want to understand the mindset, but so far this plan does not make much sense. Can somebody explain what I am missing, or are we so happy with good speeches and "yes we can" that we can't ask questions?
America needs reform badly to stay competitive, but so far I don't see it with Obama - I just see more of the same.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
junebuginFL
03:17 PM on 02/10/2009
DACC, one more reason I should mention why I come here is to be proven wrong. Is to be challenged. I usually only find insults being thrown at me. But no one call tell me how it helps them. I ask that question often, I either get a reponse like your own or ignored.

I guess only serious questions get discarded bc we are not worth your time, but seriously no one can give me a solid answer. Not even President Obama knows if this will work. First he is very confident, then back peddles to give himself the room for failure in his address last night.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Amondale
03:21 PM on 02/10/2009
You assume you're right if you're asking to be proven wrong.

Your posts hardly ask a question as much as they make a statement which is usually negative and spiteful of opposing views. So when you get shoved for your positions please don't take it personally.

heh
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
DACC
Old Foxes want no tutors
03:29 PM on 02/10/2009
okay that's it!! You just got fanned *smile*
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
junebuginFL
03:30 PM on 02/10/2009
Ok, Mr/Mrs Amondale, how will this bill help your situation? I am looking for any perspective that is different than my own. I am not 100% correct, no one is. I have learned many things coming here. I just have a different opinion in how life is not easy and we have to work twice as hard these days to get ahead. I cant blame govt for that or expect govt to do everything for me. I consider my children's future and this kind of spending scares me as to what opportunities will be available 10-15 years from now.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
DACC
Old Foxes want no tutors
03:27 PM on 02/10/2009
June
Let's change one falsehood to your sentiment please.
I and many others are not looking for anything from this package
There is no "situation" going on in our lives which we feel we need assistance from
Clearly many of my fellow countrymen are not as fortunate with the jobless rating growing
at 600,000 per month! Alarming, isn't that? Should we all cling to a "me me me" mentality
and forget about our neighbors? Also if my community members are faltering what happens to my community?

Still, I'm still interested in what your idea is as to how we stop the bleeding of job losses
and unlock the credit entities who have even shut out those who are qualified to borrow money?

Again, you go ahead, I'll wait
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
junebuginFL
03:40 PM on 02/10/2009
More jobs were shed in the last 3 months than the whole year. If 15% are unemployed, jobless benefits are provided by the state. I was laid off from my job about 2 years ago, it was the first time I claime unemployment and there were thousands of dollars there until I found a job. That is paid by your employers, so my point is those benefits are there. It does not require all this spending. Credit is there, not sure when the last time you tried to get a loan, but I got a mortgage on a home. The ones with good credit have access to that money. Risky loans may not be there, but thats part of the reason we are here. Banks were required to lend, a lot of them risky. IE the housing bubble.

There will be areas hit harder than others, but you focus on those areas, not a massive spending bill that doesnt even address all the problems. That only leaves more reasons to spend more. When does it end?
03:48 PM on 02/10/2009
Ok, here it goes:
1) Get rid of the payroll tax, create a gas and carbon tax to replace it over the next 4 years.
2) Fund all government projects that need to be done this year and next year, infrastructure only.
3) Cut Cap gains tax reduction by 10% for the next 2 years for all new money invested now.
4) Give states low interest loans to help unemployed/food stamps, etc., not handouts.
5) Stop the drug war.

Sit back and watch the green economy explode, jobs produced, and America prosperous.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
CaptD
Freedom From Nuclear Fascism...
03:17 PM on 02/10/2009
The devil is in the details... so what is going to happen is that Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner now has some money to start dealing with and that is a big CHANGE from trying to get "some" amount of money from Congress to do things that Congress has approved!

Now we'll see if Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner's team can change the direction of our current Bush inspired DEPRESSION is going and make Obama and the rest of us proud!

This is Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner BIG opportunity to become America's financial HERO!

Go Geithner!
03:35 PM on 02/10/2009
I Hope So!

they must kill Derivatives.

We can't bailout the banks if the derivatives are still pour the money out down the drain.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Mogamboguru
I am a liar. Don't believe me.
03:12 PM on 02/10/2009
Tax cuts are pork we cannot afford anymore.

Every additional Dollar from a raised minimum-wage, a publicly funded building-construction, a rebuilt bridge or a newly hired teacher's salary spent in a grocery-shop helps keeping that grocery-shop alive, helps pay the farmer, who raised the food, helps pay the mechanic, who is servicing the farmer's machines and helps pay the shoemaker, who supplies the worker boots for the mechanic.

Every additional Dollar infused into the economy's cardiovascular system helps secure all those jobs.

Yet any additional Dollar on a tax-free account on the Cayman-Islands achieves NOTHING for the economy.
03:24 PM on 02/10/2009
very well said.... big round of applause ...
03:25 PM on 02/10/2009
This is sad. Every dollar is taken from a productive use based on what people want to spend it on, and spent via the government and their cronies. You are fooled because you do not see what could have been possible with that money not confiscated by the government and spent on useless things.

Obama could simply raise the gas tax and carbon tax, and get rid of the payroll tax, and solve lots of issues in one smart proposal. He can then fund good projects that are needed right now, not in 2010+2011. But then how would his buddies get paid?

The top 1% pay 40% of all income taxes, while the bottom 50% pay less than 3%.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
junebuginFL
03:12 PM on 02/10/2009
DACC See Profile I'm a Fan of DACC I'm a fan of this user permalink
shut off rush and think for yourself FOR ONCE!!

It's verb and verse of his message.

Do you wonder why we argue with you?


DACC, please tell me how this massive spending will help your situation? I dont need Rush to talk to you, I have my own opinion, I am just curious with all the support, most dont even know what this bill involves.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
DACC
Old Foxes want no tutors
03:17 PM on 02/10/2009
Need I bring up the old adage regarding the word "assume"?
The reality is folks are more engaged and more educated on the topic
of economics than have ever been in the past.
Still I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here June.
In your infinite wisdom, what does need to take place?

You go ahead, I'll wait
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
junebuginFL
02:55 PM on 02/10/2009
I think we all know this thing was going to pass, I feel that Obama has the best intentions, but he has been brainwashed. He thinks this is going to save the country?

This is only going to do what everyone said Bush was doing wrong. He is repeating history, scares me to think that they dont know what the heck they are doing. Geithner doesnt have a plan, unless it involves spending more money.

For all those out there who want to say its the Rs fault, the Dems are doing the same thing, then they can just blame Bush more, seems like a perfect idea, I guarantee its going to come back and bite them where it hurts the most. I guess only time will tell, I hope it all works out, but this whole situation looks terribly bad to me.

Others on here asking for more handouts, more aid, I think they just want to spend money that really isnt theirs because they have power. Power corrupts. We have seen the Rs fall into the trap, now the Dems are doing the same thing. Does anyone not feel the same way?We are talking about the future of the country, not the pain we are feeling today. Its painful I think we are so used not so tough times, this immediate crisis requires all this spending. Notice how media revenues are falling, now their reports will pessimistic. Lets see what happens.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
junebuginFL
02:59 PM on 02/10/2009
Excuse me, less pessimistic. Media reports.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Amondale
03:00 PM on 02/10/2009
Do you practice being wrong or does it come naturally? You're such a pessimist and are so cynical I think I'll go wash my hair now.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
junebuginFL
03:04 PM on 02/10/2009
Amondale, I have a job like a majority of Americans. If there is 15% out of work, why does it require 800 billion to bail them out. I would benefit from this, but I dont thinks its worth it. I could use money to pay my student loans, but at this price, not to mention programs that are not going to stimulate.

Dems loaded this up with entitlement spending because more money was needed. This only increases spending, how can you say this is a stimulus bill? A % of it is, but a majority is just spending, I thought this was supposed to stimulate jobs. And the focus of this bill does not address that. Look at the wording, its all so general, its a free check to whatever they need. Basically more welfare programs. Does that help them keep their power at the detriment to the country? Is that putting your country or party first?
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
DACC
Old Foxes want no tutors
03:13 PM on 02/10/2009
LOL!
02:54 PM on 02/10/2009
I think Barack is over his head. This could spiral downward and get really ugly.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
DACC
Old Foxes want no tutors
03:06 PM on 02/10/2009
oh yeh, did ya see how much he faltered yesterday in his town hall meeting?
or at his press conference last night?
or his additional town hall meeting today?

If that's "over his head", I want some of that too!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
liberalNmoderation
03:09 PM on 02/10/2009
Now bush...that simpleton was in WAY over his head.
Obama....not even close..
NEXT!
02:42 PM on 02/10/2009
The hits just keep coming.....

Sen. Chuck Schumer: “And let me say this to all of the chattering class that so much focuses on those little, tiny, yes, porky amendments: the American people really don't care.”
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
DACC
Old Foxes want no tutors
02:46 PM on 02/10/2009
I'd say he hit the nail right on the target.

One more time for the learning-impaired (Ammo)

Pork is spending, spending provides stimulus

stimulus jump-starts the economy

See how that works??

I can use single syllable words if it is beyond your grasp still
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
4akinderworld
02:50 PM on 02/10/2009
Whyyyyyyyyy are you here? Do you think we're going to read your posts and then sit up suddenly and say, "D'OH! Why didn't I think of that. Thank you, Ammobob for enlightening us!" Because if you don't think that, then you're just coming to stir up a fight, because you know this is a liberal blog. And that is straight-up playground juvenile.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
DACC
Old Foxes want no tutors
02:55 PM on 02/10/2009
yeh but he is straight-up playground juvenile.

call him a blog latch-key kid

someone's gotta watch him or he'll hurt himself
02:40 PM on 02/10/2009
CATO Economist Arnold Kling, had to say about the Democrat's economic plans:

“I think about the stimulus as an economist but I feel it as a father. Barack Obama is destroying my daughters future. It is like sitting there watching my house ransacked by a gang of thugs. That’s how I feel, now back to how I think.”

Wow, sums up that Common Folk feeling, eh?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Amondale
02:48 PM on 02/10/2009
Naw, it just sums up Arnold Kling, but thanks for askin'.

My Nobel Prize Winning Economist Can Beat Up Your Cato Economist
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
DACC
Old Foxes want no tutors
02:48 PM on 02/10/2009
must I counter your post with quotes from countless economic whizzes who dispute "your guy's" perspective?

Or would you rather just say "I give up" now?
02:37 PM on 02/10/2009
A very dumb move to use a negative tone toward the banking industry. Wall Street doesn't have a back bone. All they understand is greed. They, like many Americans, don't look ahead and think positive. Greed got us into this mess, and the Government wants to give it more money. Address the greed problem.