Payback: Dems Strip Business Tax Cuts

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February 11, 2009 07:46 PM

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It's payback time on Capitol Hill.

Democrats rewarded the GOP for its near unanimous opposition Wednesday by ripping business tax cuts out of the final package, members of Congress said after a closed-door meeting to discuss the stimulus agreement reached with the Senate.

The Chamber of Commerce and other major business organizations lobbied for passage of the stimulus, but couldn't persuade a single House Republican or more than three Senate Republicans.

A tax break that allowed businesses to write off losses dating back several years was reduced and a measure providing a $15,000 tax credit to homebuyers was pulled. Both actions shaved a combined $50 billion off the package's price tag - about $13 billion of it carved from the business cuts. Around $75 billion of tax cuts in total were stripped from the package.

Some of the money to fill gaping state budgets and for school construction was returned to the package in place of the tax cuts. Aid to states was boosted from $40 billion to $54 billion, said Sen. Ben Nelson (D-Neb.).

Ways and Means Committee Chairman Charlie Rangel (D-N.Y.) cautioned that negotiations around the edges were still going on. "There's nothing on Ways and Means and Finance we can't make adjustments on," he said.

Any further adjustments that would be made would be downward, he said, to keep the cost at around $789 billion.

While the business tax cuts got hit, individuals' cuts did better. "We're pretty much okay with the individual tax cuts - it's more business" that got taken out, Rangel said. He said that House negotiators were able to restore a child tax credit, but not at the size they had wanted. He said the $3,000 would be a "good guess" as to the level of the credit, but said that it could still change.

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"Tax relief to help middle class families and small businesses were sharply pared back for the sake of increased government spending," said an unhappy GOP aide.

Appropriations Committee Chairman David Obey said that the package included $311 to $314 billion in appropriations and the rest in "revenues and mandatories." The package now includes $275 billion in tax cuts, said Rangel, which means that another roughly $200 billion is targeted to mandatory spending programs such as unemployment insurance.

That proportion of 65 percent spending against 35 percent tax cuts tilts the final bill more heavily toward spending than it had been earlier.

"We have a basic agreement," said Obey, but he wasn't entirely thrilled at the size of the package. "People are talking about it as if it's this great new dollop of money that the governors are going to have to spread around. That's not what it is. This is larger a hole-filler."

Asked by the Huffington Post if he thought another stimulus would be needed, he said, "I don't think there's any doubt that we may need other actions." He said that next the financial markets must be fixed and the foreclosure crisis needs to be mitigated.

"This economy is in an absolute mess," he said. "I've never seen anything like it." He said that he agreed with liberal economists who said that the stimulus wasn't large enough.

"Count me in the Paul Krugman camp," said Obey, adding that the bill was better than nothing and would go a long way to slow the economy's decline.

Earlier in the day, Senate Democrats announced that a deal had been reached, only to be met with silence from the other side of the Capitol. A Democratic aide involved in the negotiations said that the hiccup was over school-construction funds. The House insisted that governors be given more flexibility to spend state aid on school construction. The word construction, however, was changed to modernization.

"It's now not construction but it's modernization, so it's clear that you don't go out and build a bunch of new buildings," said Nelson.

Also cut was a provision that would have cost $11 billion and used tax credits to encourage the purchase of fuel-efficient vehicles. Nelson said it was cut down to around $2 billion.

Nelson, too, got what he wanted. The House was pushing back against the Senate's inclusion of a patch for the alternative minimum tax. Nelson fought for it and won.

"I insisted," said Nelson.

It's payback time on Capitol Hill. Democrats rewarded the GOP for its near unanimous opposition Wednesday by ripping business tax cuts out of the final package, members of Congress said after a clos...
It's payback time on Capitol Hill. Democrats rewarded the GOP for its near unanimous opposition Wednesday by ripping business tax cuts out of the final package, members of Congress said after a clos...
 
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- econ1 I'm a Fan of econ1 5 fans permalink

Why does this have to be in one giant bill?

They could pass a series of bills, starting with the ones that make such sense that anyone voting against them would be ridiculed.

Then they can try and get their pet projects through one by one and we, the people, could see where they vote on each.

It seems they are all trying to hide a bunch of bad ideas in one giant bill so they can say that they didn't like something in it but voted for the package.

90% of them have been in office for years and it is scary to think they are running the country no better than before.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:56 PM on 02/12/2009
- wdw505 I'm a Fan of wdw505 71 fans permalink

you hit the nail on the head

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:02 PM on 02/12/2009
- swo68 I'm a Fan of swo68 14 fans permalink

Yes! That's what I've been saying.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:38 PM on 02/12/2009
- the964kid I'm a Fan of the964kid 63 fans permalink
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GOP=chumps.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:28 PM on 02/12/2009

We all know that 'tax breaks' for corporations do NOTHING for the American people, so Bravo for getting the cr__ removed from the package.
Main St. USA needs the tax breaks NOT the corporations. They send jobs overseas, give out BIG bonuses and cash awards to the top of the ladder BUT never the little guy.
I say ' Let them eat cake'

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:47 PM on 02/12/2009
- wdw505 I'm a Fan of wdw505 71 fans permalink

i had an EMP with that attitude apposing it in the break room......­........he is no longer employed..­.......the funny thing is that he had his wife come to my house to appeal for rehire....­...as they will now have to move......­...as they were renting from me ..........­.

i wonder if you say that publicly or at work......­..laughing

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:59 PM on 02/12/2009

Be careful your EMP doesn't sue you for discrimination.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:20 PM on 02/12/2009
- AnnfromCA I'm a Fan of AnnfromCA 186 fans permalink

Here's the real reason for the stock dump. Way to go, Pelosi!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:38 PM on 02/12/2009
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That 15K tax credit would have been an exemplary kick in the pants for the whole process. It would get people off the fence, which has been a principal and giant contributor to the slowdown and screeching halt in home starts.
This would have forced homes to hit their bottom price because the money in sales would have caused too much momentum not to. This is a perfect example of what was needed to start jobs immediatel­y... Like tomorrow.
If this really gets pulled, I find a lot harder to support this bill.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:33 PM on 02/12/2009
- wdw505 I'm a Fan of wdw505 71 fans permalink

"I find a lot harder to support this bill." good glad to hear that

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:39 PM on 02/12/2009

Certainly not payback,good ole' common sense.Karm­a does kick ya in the butt tho'.Repub­s didn't want to participate in an adult and professional manner,soo­oooo......­.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:30 PM on 02/12/2009

I'm glad they the Dems have started taking back some of the items that were used to try to entice the GOP. If they don't want to at least try to make a good faith effort (Steele saying it was 'Beautiful') then let the Dems just do what they think is best for the country. We'll either get all the credit or all the blame. I'm for that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:16 PM on 02/12/2009
- ohiodem250 I'm a Fan of ohiodem250 27 fans permalink

Any Democrats knee-jerk reacting to tax cuts on this posting board, I want you to sit back and ask yourself this question: if tax cuts were not stimulative in some way, why is Obama keeping all the Bush tax cuts except for those in the top tax bracket?

Really sit and think about that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:19 PM on 02/12/2009
- wdw505 I'm a Fan of wdw505 71 fans permalink

because tax cuts work......­......anot­her question have any of you people have ever been given a job by a poor person....­....laughi­ng i did not think so

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:14 PM on 02/12/2009
- frantaylor I'm a Fan of frantaylor 22 fans permalink

If they worked, why are we in the mess we are in? We have gotten tax cut after tax cut and the economy keeps getting worse and worse.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:40 PM on 02/12/2009
- lincheryl I'm a Fan of lincheryl 6 fans permalink

Because he promised to help the middle class--not as a stimulus measure, but as a way to "even up" the breaks the top % has gotten under Bush.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:31 PM on 02/12/2009
- XLintLuvR I'm a Fan of XLintLuvR 30 fans permalink
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Well, as I was really sitting back and thinking about it, I remembered that Bush didn't create any tax cuts for anyone except for those in the upper tax brackets and corporations. I know you have dem in your name, but you really are thinking like a repub. Now, I could say something like seeing that you're in the Midwest would explain why you're misinformed but that would be like teaching calculus to a gold fish. You just wouldn't get it so I'll turn it back to you in terms that you can understand. If tax cuts were so stimulative, tell me two things: 1 How can a tax cut create a job if the corporations that are getting the cuts are shipping the jobs overseas because it's cheaper and are already not really paying taxes in the first place? 2. How is a tax cut going to help you out right now if you don't have a job?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:21 PM on 02/12/2009
- ohiodem250 I'm a Fan of ohiodem250 27 fans permalink

If we cut the corporate tax to 15% there would be incredible repatriation of business into the US. It's too long to explain so I'll just direct you to research what happened in the Republic or Ireland when they lowered their tax rate to 15%. Suffice to say, if you were a business and you could choose to HQ in Ireland or America and they had the same rate where would you go? Of course America, because we have the best consumers. But when we have a 30% rate and they have 15% the choice becomes less clear. Also, as to how it will raise revenue, research the Laffer curve. I'm not a die-hard believer in it, but I'm willing to try. Kennedy cut taxes, he was a liberal. Just put down the labels for a minute and really ask yourself if it could work. I think it could, and I still hold liberal viewpoints. Benefiting business does not necessarily mean at the expense of the worker. As Democrats, if we can begin to think in terms of and/both instead of either/or when it comes to business we would be able to win seats for generations.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:29 PM on 02/13/2009
- marxmarv I'm a Fan of marxmarv 25 fans permalink
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Because he's not interested in taking hot lead from a Blackwater sniper.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:05 AM on 02/13/2009
- Lemmy I'm a Fan of Lemmy 19 fans permalink

But the included $30M to save the salt marsh harvest mouse in Nancy's district. Stimulus we can believe in.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:10 PM on 02/12/2009
- ohiodem250 I'm a Fan of ohiodem250 27 fans permalink

Cutting the carry back provision for businesses as well as the home purchase tax credit is utterly ridiculous. These a$$holes in Congress need to get a grip. This is not the time for political pay back. They shouldn't cut these in order to restore the school construction - they should just do both. To hell with Ben Nelson and Susan Collins. I could give a damn about their votes. Obama needs to cut this bipartisan crap and make those who oppose it stand on the floor of the Senate and filibuster. And forget trying to keep this thing under $800 billion - that's a sure fire way to make a huge amount of money completely ineffective. This bill should be edging close to $1 Trillion in order for it to be effective. This is terrible.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:57 AM on 02/12/2009

I'm assuming that you've watched what has been happening. A bill goes through house, senate, conference, house, senate and then the presidents' desk. Without the votes needed to pass, it never gets to his desk. The president cannot just say this is how it is going to be. You've heard the so-called pundits say "President Obama needs these 3 republicans, otherwise the bill won't pass.". That is probably the only true statements from any pundits. Unless you're willing to throw the constitution away and proclaim the President king, or vote people in who actually give a damn about the country instead of their party, you'll have to live with how it is. Try not take it out on the one man who is trying to the best of his ability to try to work for you (the people).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:38 PM on 02/12/2009
- wdw505 I'm a Fan of wdw505 71 fans permalink

i'll take it out on anyone voting for this spending bill or even pushing for it......as it is my right

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:16 PM on 02/12/2009
- Harrygton I'm a Fan of Harrygton 3 fans permalink

This economic disaster and its resultant "stimulus" package was a perfect opportunity for the Democrats to declare war on the rich and restore some measure of balance to their long suffering constituen­cy... It wasn't too long ago that the Republicans did the same thing... used 911 and the anti Arab fear to declare War on Iraq, rape the Middle Class and trash the Constitution. We need a third party in this country... both of these bozos are too entrenched in their shortsighted ways to really meet the demands of a Global Economy with a progressive agenda. Obama says the "right" things but he cannot deliver!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:32 AM on 02/12/2009
- jsgaetano I'm a Fan of jsgaetano 208 fans permalink
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They should have stripped ALL the tax cuts from the bill. America needs money being spent, it doesn't need tax breaks.

Goopers only have one song they can sing- tax cuts. If it's not a tax cut, they can't figure out what it's for. As GWB aptly demonstrated, Goopers have a very limited vocabulary.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:31 AM on 02/12/2009

"They should have stripped ALL the tax cuts from the bill. America needs money being spent, it doesn't need tax breaks"

So small businesses, which supply most of the jobs in this country, should be incentivized to create more jobs?

By stating this you are basically saying you don't trust yourself with money and Government should spend your money as they see fit.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:55 AM on 02/12/2009
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I like roads in good repair and well trained air traffic controllers. Unfortunately, I can't manage that on my own. Think of government spending as communal spending on for the community benefit.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:01 AM on 02/12/2009
- ricitizen I'm a Fan of ricitizen 17 fans permalink
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I'm so tired of hearing that old platitude that if you don't support tax cuts in a time of debt and economic crises, then you don't trust people to spend their own money. By that argument we should have a voluntary system of taxation and hope people will make the right judgments as to the right amounts to send in for the services we shared as citizens of United States. So how much will I send in this month to support, the military, police, fire, road construction, repair, teachers, dam building, V.A. centers? I trust that some will send in but the most will not. My point is that is a specious argument. If the republican party wanted to become useful, they should accept that we vote for and need government and government services, but that we'd like to have in a way that maximizes our return for tax dollars invested. Republicans should try to morph themselves into the party that believes in accountable and well managed government while keeping tax rates as low as possible. But the priority should be focused on getting things done, not on a philosophy based on altruism. Altruism is good for individuals and families, but it not a good basis for running a country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:15 AM on 02/12/2009
- lincheryl I'm a Fan of lincheryl 6 fans permalink

They had to leave enough in to get the 3 votes from the Republicans to pass it. They need 60 votes because it increases the deficit, and that is the rule. The Repubs wouldn't vote for it if they didn't get something they wanted.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:42 PM on 02/12/2009

ummm, businesses are the ones that create jobs. One of the reasons businesses leave the country are because they're lured by tax breaks and obviously cheap labor with no benefits.

be careful what you do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:27 AM on 02/12/2009
- Fabienne I'm a Fan of Fabienne 31 fans permalink

Yeah, this kind of threat is the way businesses have managed to hold the federal and state governments hostage while they rake in big profits, underpay their workers, provide no benefits, and pay very low taxes. It's time all of us stopped buying products made by American companies outside the country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:36 AM on 02/12/2009

i agree we should buy from companies that manufacture here with American citizens or legal residents.

reward these companies by giving them a break.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:42 AM on 02/12/2009
- ohiodem250 I'm a Fan of ohiodem250 27 fans permalink

There's a difference between corporate business interest and small business interest. As Democrats, we should be heavily courting the latter because they are by no means solidly conservative. If we assumed them into our party and became an honest broker with them on how to align their interests with the folks they hire, we will win majorities in Congress and the White House for generations.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:04 PM on 02/12/2009

Noticed a bunch of new items advertised as made in America at Wal-mart. Could the worm be turning?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:35 PM on 02/12/2009
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ummm, demand creates jobs. Simple economic principle repubs never learned in school. Please stop repeating bad ideas. You'll feel better.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:41 AM on 02/12/2009

you appear to be unarmed and i don't like to be unfair.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:16 AM on 02/12/2009

You must be the i d io t in "The Villages".

isn't it time for your blue pill???

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:18 AM on 02/12/2009
- vesaversa1 I'm a Fan of vesaversa1 12 fans permalink
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Republicans are now whining about the very socialist programs that they claim to be against whining about provision that was cut out of this stimulus bill to bye homes and to create or help small businesses­.It's hypocrisy running wild

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:44 AM on 02/12/2009
- toddag I'm a Fan of toddag 18 fans permalink

If the way to compete in the global market is to have the cheapest labor pool, then I don't want to win.

There will always be places where businesses can operate cheaper. No American wants to work for pennies per hour, but there are countries around the world where this is common.

America has to compete based on quality, not low costs. Skilled, educated workforce. Developed infrastructure. Political stability. Rule of law.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:12 AM on 02/12/2009
- ohiodem250 I'm a Fan of ohiodem250 27 fans permalink

That's why you couple stronger labor provisions in trade agreements with a lowering of the corporate tax rate to 15% in one package. That would be truly post-partisan. With such a proposal, you would see massive repatriation of business while also holding other countries accountable for slave labor and environmental destruction. As a country, we need to move past these either/or propositions and start forging and/both.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:02 PM on 02/12/2009
- lincheryl I'm a Fan of lincheryl 6 fans permalink

But lately the businesses that create jobs have been keeping the cream to the CEOs and not making new jobs. The "trickle down" has been less than a trickle.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:43 PM on 02/12/2009
- wdw505 I'm a Fan of wdw505 71 fans permalink

because we are waiting to see what other damage Mr. bo does to business..­.....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:33 PM on 02/12/2009

Nice move Dems, coming from a guy that was going to buy a house this summer if the $15,000 credit passed . . .

I guess I'll sit back and wait now because I have no idea what they will do and there will be an increasing house supply when the next set or ARMs reset.

Along with that house, my wife and I probably would have bought a ton of stuff for the new house.

If you are looking for a house now, hold off and don't but because you need to wait to see what Government will do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:04 AM on 02/12/2009
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Apparently not an idea in over eight years...ye­t u would portend to giving advice.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:08 AM on 02/12/2009
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Anybody who buys a house in today's market is a fool and if you needed

a tax credit to put together a down payment, you are part of the problem.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:09 AM on 02/12/2009
- Dystopic I'm a Fan of Dystopic 20 fans permalink
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Anyone who buys a home is this market will make a killing when the market recovers. Buying low and then even selling slightly below market or appraised value is how people like Buffett and others got wealthy. Not necessarily with homes, but buying assets at depressed prices and then selling at a profit.

I am buying 4 homes in my area with the idea of fixing what is needed, renting out for 2 years, and then selling when the market rebounds. My area has slowed down, but home prices are holding steady. the 4 homes I am buying are due to a builder getting overextended and needing to unload inventory.

If you were planning to put the $15K as a down payment, then you should not be buying a home.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:30 AM on 02/12/2009

I have a 20% downpayment easy without the credit . . .

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:50 AM on 02/12/2009
- wdw505 I'm a Fan of wdw505 71 fans permalink

i have recently purchased 3 houses that were bank owned properties­..........­i now am renting the houses to my EMPs i deduct the from their pay.......­.they fix up the house.....­.......hou­ses were 30 cents on the dollar....­...i rent them for 20% under normal rent in the area......­..i will put about 5 to 10 thousand dollars in each house over time but that just comes off the rent......­.....so go ahead and call me a fool......­....laughi­ng........­i am having my Realtor look for more......­.i now have a waiting list for renting other houses from me........­.if they leave my employment they leave my house or the rent goes up by 35%.......­..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:38 PM on 02/12/2009
- RJII I'm a Fan of RJII 77 fans permalink
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I wouldn't buy a house right now simply because their values are plummeting. what does a $15K tax credit actually put in one's pocket anyway?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:11 AM on 02/12/2009

Depends on where you live, in many places the housing prices aren't plummeting.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:49 AM on 02/12/2009
- wdw505 I'm a Fan of wdw505 71 fans permalink

what does a $15K tax credit actually put in one's pocket anyway? you're kidding right

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:24 PM on 02/12/2009
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Does anyone KNOW if the $15 K credit was for existing homes? Bet not. My GUESS is that it was probably intended to get money into the contractors' hands anyway.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:22 AM on 02/12/2009
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P.S. Do the right thing. Buy an existing home. All this new home building is ridiculous--sorry to all the builders (well, the workers) out there. I feel for YOU.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:25 AM on 02/12/2009
- ohiodem250 I'm a Fan of ohiodem250 27 fans permalink

It was for any home purchase (whether first-time buyer or not, whether new home or existing) and it was going to be retroactive to August of 2008. It was a great idea!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:32 PM on 02/12/2009
- Dystopic I'm a Fan of Dystopic 20 fans permalink
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yeah right. You need a socialist program to buy a home?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:25 AM on 02/12/2009

Actually I have a house currently, built in 2005 but as looking to upgrade.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:49 AM on 02/12/2009

Socialist program?Like the 700 billion dollar bail-out,NOT STIMULUS,so the uber-rich can continue their Lavish lifestyle.­Take the taxpayers money and forget they may need a little help?Repubs are the true socialists living off the taxpayers money.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:39 PM on 02/12/2009
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America must pump money in at the bottom and quickly move to eliminate all the

breaks the rich have given themselves through our elitist and corrupt Congress.

Trickle down economics was a ploy of the rich to steal the wealth of the middle class.

Well regulated capitalism mixed with rational socialism is the direction we now must go.

The GOP must be shown as the whores of corporatism that they have willingly become.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:56 AM on 02/12/2009
- djgonebad I'm a Fan of djgonebad 9 fans permalink
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RIGHT ON POINT!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:11 AM on 02/12/2009
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