NYC Marriage Bureau Turns Away Hundreds Of Same-Sex Couples

SAN FRANCISCO — Same-sex couples seeking to wed showed up at marriage license counters nationwide Thursday to highlight a right they don't have in 48 states, part of an annual protest that took on renewed urgency given recent election setbacks.

In San Francisco, where same-sex marriage was legal for nearly five months last year before California voters approved a ban, many couples who came to City Hall had already tied the knot but wanted to express their gratitude and to show they're still part of the fight.

"All of our marriages are under the cloud of Proposition 8," said Stuart Gaffney, 45, referring to California's ballot initiative banning gay marriage. "Equality is an unfinished business in California."

In Las Vegas, couples gathered outside the downtown marriage bureau with signs that read "Don't hate my love" and "No laws on love." In New York, activists wore signs that said "Just Not Married." They were turned away empty-handed in both places when they asked for marriage licenses.

"We could get married in Massachusetts or Connecticut, but we'll wait a little and see what happens in New York," Matt Flanders, 37, of Brooklyn, said after he and his partner, Will Jennings, 29, participated in the protest in Manhattan. "It's a matter of principle. This is our home, and we should be able to get married where we live, where our friends are."

The protests around Valentine's Day, part of the 12th annual Freedom to Marry Day, were considered especially important this year because they come after the November passage of Proposition 8. The measure has prompted protests, lawsuits and questions about the direction of the gay rights movement.

"A lot of people feel a sense of determination and regret over having been too complacent or quiet before, so there is a commitment to, `Never again, we have to take action,'" said Evan Wolfson, a civil rights lawyer who conceived Freedom to Marry Day. "In that sense, California was a terrific energizer and wake-up call."

Currently, gay marriage is legal only in Massachusetts and Connecticut, while 30 states have gay marriage bans in their constitutions. Gay rights activists are pressing lawmakers in New Jersey, New York and Vermont to take up bills that would legalize same-sex marriage in those states.

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Jennifer Pizer, director of the marriage project at gay rights legal group Lambda Legal, said the disappointing outcome of the California election has created momentum in other parts of the country.

Hawaii's House of Representatives, for example, voted 33-17 Thursday to allow same-sex civil unions. The legislation now goes before the state's Senate Judiciary Committee, where the vote is split among six senators, with one undecided. A tie vote would kill the civil union measure for the year.

In Utah, where a constitutional amendment approved by voters in 2004 prohibits same-sex unions, five gay and lesbian couples applied for marriage licenses in Salt Lake City on Thursday. County Clerk Sherrie Swensen said she could recall only one other gay couple asking to get married over the last 18 years.

In Maine and Minnesota on Thursday, dozens of proponents of gay marriage gathered outside the statehouses to lobby for bills that would legalize same-sex marriage in those states. Under a black and white banner that read "Legalize Love," Minnesota lawmakers vowed to push the bill as far as they can.

State Sen. Scott Dibble, a Minneapolis Democrat who is one of the few openly gay members of the Legislature, said the country's economic woes showed the need for couples to support each other. But gay couples can't get many of the benefits of marriage that might make things easier, he said.

"Those with strong families more than anyone are going to be able to rely on each other," Dibble said. "So why does our own government try to stop that from happening? Why does our own government try to stop us from trying to take care of each other?"

Troy Smith, 41, and his partner of six years, Justin Gibson, 26, were among the 15 couples waiting with tourists outside the marriage bureau in downtown Las Vegas. Smith, a coordinator at a local wedding chapel, said he's constantly faced with the reality of Nevada's constitutional ban on gay marriage.

"I sell it every day, but I can't buy it myself," he said, adding that he often sees couples rushing to the altar after knowing each other for hours. "It just about breaks my heart. It's not fair."

The California Supreme Court is scheduled to hear oral arguments next month on whether to uphold Proposition 8 and on the validity of the estimated 18,000 same-sex marriages sanctioned in the state between June and November. The court could render a decision as early as June.

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On the Net:

Marriage Equality USA: http://www.marriageequality.org

Join the Impact: http://jointheimpact.com

___

Dobnik reported from New York. Associated Press writers Elizabeth Dunbar in St. Paul, Minn., Kathleen Hennessey in Las Vegas and Rette Speight in Salt Lake City also contributed to this report.

Comments

[carsntrucks]

I'm calling foul on these claims that separate but equal applies to the civil unions compromise. For one, that pertained to actual policies that functionally were and were meant to be separate but equal. Brown v. Board of Education determined that these policies effectively WEREN'T separate and equal, but were simply separate.

Again, gay marriage supporters are trying to crib one line out of a civil rights Supreme Court decision without any nod towards analysis or context. It's the same thing you do when you mention the "marriage is a basic civil right" bit from Loving v. Virginia. As if that automatically makes it so, and everyone would agree.

The main reason I think these "separate but equal" claims are BS is because I don't see any of you putting your money where your mouth is. If they're completely irrational and insult civil rights orthodoxy...instead of going to court to get gay marriage, why not go to court to have them overturn civil unions? And use the same logic you use to argue against it here: that this goes against the precedence set by Brown v. BOE, and they should be overturned.

Yeah, I didn't think so.

[mercury613]

"Brown v. Board of Education determined that these policies effectively WEREN'T separate and equal, but were simply separate."

As is the case with marriage vs. civil union/domestic partnership. You obviously have not done your homework.

[carsntrucks]

If civil unions/domestic partnerships offer the same thing, that's not separate but equal. That's different, but equal. True separate but equal policies were separate and unequal. "Separate but equal" was just the name segregationists gave to those policies.

And considering we're talking about benefits you already have absolutely no claim to (both because none of us have claims to legal goodies and because same-sex marriage isn't a civil right), that doesn't fall under the same caselaw AT ALL.

Like I said, if you think civil unions offend the decision in Brown v. BOE, go to court have them overturn them. You wont. No one will.

It's obvious it's YOU who hasn't done your homework.

[slaxx]

look up the civil union battle in new jersey.

civil unions do not provide the same benefits as marriage. they are already doing and have already done what you posted.

please be informed before you make assertions.

[JohnBisceglia]

America, you seriously need to grow up.

We are your children, your parents, your grandparents, and your grand children. We are your aunts, uncles, nephews, and nieces. Some of us raise children; some children are our own, some are other's children (i.e. - abandoned).

When Wanda Sykes gets up at the correspondance dinner, I hope she speaks about Obama, America, and what it was like growing up as a little black girl. What is was like growing up discovering that SHE, a young black girl, was a lesbian, like any of the young black girls we see today [ahem] ; all gays really were children at one time. And when some folks hem and haw at the mere suggestion of my "ahem" above, she would remind them that THIS "little black lesbian girl" grew up to be Wanda effin' Sykes, and ISN'T THAT A GREAT THING?

Having the LOVE-orientation to fall in love with the same gender is AS SACRED AS any heterosexual love. Period. And we will FIGHT until the law catches up with morality and common decency!

[carsntrucks]

Hey, buddy? We're not the ones running around in the streets in wedding dresses complaining about not being seen as normal and like everybody else. We're not the ones calling people bigots and homophobes because they disagree with our whole cloth revisionist ideology about what a marriage is. So maybe you need to direct that "you seriously need to grow up" comment towards your side. It's more apropos of what they need to do than us.

I'd say many gays need to grow up, considering we have so many other problems to deal with. Nobody is going to sympathize with your issue when you're fighting for attention while the rest of the 97% of the country is in dire straits. That's just selfish and, dare I say, CHILDISH on you guys' part.

[JohnBisceglia]

"We must, she said, be out on every form, every moment, of every waking day. If we travel, we fill out forms as married people.

If we file taxes? WE FILE AS MARRIED PEOPLE.

When ever, where ever we can, we must identify ourselves. It's Harvey Milk's message. It continues to be relevant. It is an act of non-violent civil disobedience. We must refuse to be considered single
When we are families." - Nadine Smith of Equality Florida

[lucas-jnr]

OK, why would the gay couples show up at the marriage license centers to wed knowing full well that gay marriage is against the law? I thought we are waiting for the courts to intervene to allow marriage equality. Was this just for attention? I guess I don't understand the point

[kaukerc]

For the same reason union workers show up at their place of business when they are on strike. If people aren't aware of your situation, how can you expect to garner support?

[lucas-jnr]

Oh.. people are aware of our situation alright and still voted for prop 8 in California-the most liberal state ever. Two men dressed in white wedding dresses parading themselves on the streets demanding marriage equality?. First of all- people squint at a man dressed up in a white wedding dress or in drag and won't want to know what the man has to say.

[JohnBisceglia]

When laws are immoral and unjust and HURT our children - guess what? We break the law.
[context - making love to my husband was illegal in some states as recent as 2003]. So you think I respect ANY law when the laws hate my family?

We will continue using more dire measures, from sit-ins, civil disobedience, and tax revolt, for starters. And "PLEASE, MARY" with the I.R.S. or police. Not ALL of us will submit to injustice without a fight, and many of us have leanred how to keep government OUT of our personal finances, so the I.R.S. will just have to deal without our income. They will have to take my cash "from my cold dead hand".....said like any TRUE American would say it.

[carsntrucks]

...and you will CONTINUE to lose in the court of public opinion and legislatures will CONTINUE to be reticent to go to bat for your cause.

You may think that extremist, "no justice, no peace" stuff is going to work, but I'm afraid it's not. You couldn't win in the biggest, most diverse, and most liberal state in the country after eight solid years of a corrupt Republican president and with a highly popular Democratic primary and nominee. Maybe it's time to go back to the drawing board, because being insurrectionists is going to get you nowhere fast.

[mercury613]

I think there's a pesky, closeted homophobe buzzing around near my ear. Too bad I don't have a fly swatter on hand.

[dm10003]

for those afraid of gay protest:

the more gays are pushed down, the more radicalized we're forced to become. it might not be appealing. it might not help immediately, but i'd rather avoid any civil disobediance and gain equality.

can anti-gays violence be considered peaceful? nonradical?

[mercury613]

You raise a very good point. By mobilizing to pass Prop 8 in CA, the religious right wing has created the very thing they are so afraid of. (And most of them have no idea what they've done.) They have angered, energized and galvanized the LGBT community in a way that hasn't been seen since the 1970s. People who were politically apathetic are now motivated and ready to fight.

Be careful what you wish for.

[MagisterLudi]

"Be careful what you wish for."

Ah, now THERE'S a good comment.

[MagisterLudi]

"i'd rather avoid any civil disobediance."

Go for it. Let's make it more fun.
Gee, I don't recall any marches on AA churches in the 'hoods following Prop 8
Most were centered in safe neighborhoods In SF. and L..A. I'm sure it took enormous bravery to march from W. Hollywood gays bars to Westwood and back. Or up and down Castro district.

[carsntrucks]

They knew who to mess with.

[david43a]

life can be short and is often just brutal! I suggest, and only suggest, that y'all should find what joy you can in this world...it would be nice if the flailing of your arms does not bloody any noses, but, besides that ...
if your in the closet, come out.!..if you are on the jesus road, walk on! if you want to get married, fight for it!
live and let live....er....oh my, I am preaching again! what the heck, do what pleases ya! to h.e.ll with the rest of em! In the immortal words of Jimi Hendrix....I'm the one who has to die when its my time to die, so let me live my life the way I want to....oh darn, there I go again!

[david43a]

tr24, i thought welfare only lasted 3 years now....should you be out looking for honest work?
stealing other peoples stuff does not count!

[tr24]

You don't make a living off of your comedy, obviously. But how are you, David?

[david43a]

Wonderful, gay and employed! and you? still in the closet? come on out son!
the air is fabulous!

[OkieIntellectual]

First off, I am all for marriage across-the-board. I believe there should be no distinction between gay marriage and straight marriage. It should just be marraige, period.

Having said that...

"Micah Stanek, 23, stood outside in a floor-length wedding veil after he [...]"

This is exactly the kind of thing that will forever hold the gay-marraige agenda back. I understand that this guy was trying to make a statement, but good lord, don't these folks realize how it looks to straight, middle-of-the-road people who could go either way on the issue when they see a bearded man flouncing about in a wedding veil? It is difficult to take the argument seriously when you have people making their statement this way. Its the same reason I am so turned off by gay pride parades. Be proud of being gay, go for it, but don't go marching down the street in a leather jock-strap and 8-inch platform heels. Keep that stuff in your bedroom or otherwise in private.

And before folks go throwing me under the bus for this, you all know that there are plenty of otherwise gay-friendly straight folks (as well as many gay folks whom I know) who are disturbed or put-off by these kinds of public displays.

[Pie7]

Thank you. My point exactly. They're too out there.

[complice]

I'm sorry, but your point has no bearing on this discussion. You're a bigot. You've demonstrated this over and over. Get used to the idea of same-sex marriage here in NYC because it's coming.

[tr24]

co-sign, Pie! They never learn.

[chaos4700]

LOL! That's nothing. You should see what a bearded man flouncing around in a Sailor Moon outfit looks like. And the cosplayers aren't necessarily even gay.

[OkieIntellectual]

Hehe, Oh I actually have seen that, and once seen, it can't be un-seen, more's the pity :)

[BandsofBlack]

I'm deeply horrified by all the skimpy and bizarre costumes people wear for Mardi Gras, and by all the women showing their breasts for beads.

They should keep that stuff for their bedroom or otherwise in private.

So how about we get a list of their names and deny them their civil rights if they're straight. If they're not straight they already don't have them, so no worries.

And the S&M parade

[smithshaw08]

You rock!

[OkieIntellectual]

So you're saying that you agree with me, at least that that kind of display should be kept private? I don't agree with your point about arbitrarily denying civil rights though, that's going a bit too far.

[JohnBisceglia]

The problem is - Many gays don't think we need to be LIKED ENOUGH by everyone first in order to have equal civil rights. We've decided to let those with rights pay off the stimulas package and wait until we actually HAVE rights before including our income.

AMERICA - Either INCLUDE US, or EXCLUDE US - income and all!

[david43a]

one deay, when he's to old to be attractive to anyone, tr24 will be a bitter old queen who never had the courage to admit what the rest of us hear all know....GAY boy! boy!

[Pie7]

Thank you for representing NYC.

[tr24]

Amen, sister!

[jcdelbarcoii]

I think it is interesting that the couple moved from San Fransisco to NY. Prop 8 was a huge deal and it's strange to see California losing that progressive haven.
I do appreciate the peaceful demonstration. I'm tired of angry liberals yelling and putting up prop h8 stickers everywhere.

Is this an issue of equal rights, or depriving the majority with their role in a democracy? What is the bigger crime here? Treating a group of people like half citizens or denying what a majority voted for?

[RainbowPhoenix]

History has shown repeatedly why it is a bad idea to vote on a minority's civil rights.

[dm10003]

luckily there is more than one way to get equal rights. such as the majority of those california judges -- who happen to be conservative.

[dm10003]

you think women's suffrage came with a majority? did we have a civil war over a majority vote for emancipation? you don't know enough about how government works. "majority" is a magic key to govern.

[dm10003]

whoops, should read "majority is NOT magic key to govern"

[chaos4700]

Well, and you've raised a good point. Referendum only works when voters are making a decision on something that affects the entirety of voting population. On issues that are targeted at a single minority, the voting base will be apathetic at best, or at worse will prioritize a slight or imagined gain over the suffering of the minority. Democracy without justice can become the tyranny of the majority.

[BandsofBlack]

Treating a group of people like half citizens is definitely much worse.

African Americans would still not have equal rights in some states if it were left up to a vote.

Ditto for women and the vote.

[BlackYowe]

Just look at that photo with the man in the wedding dress. Stunts like that are why Gay activists are not taken seriously and shouldn't be.

[smithshaw08]

Yes we can't be the fashion police for everyone, but then again Dennis Rodman is straight. I try to take straight people with a grain of salt.

[BlackYowe]

Yes and he is a very uncouth person isn't he? Fashion police? Mocking marriage is not a fashion statement. The message is loud and clear Gay activists do not take marriage seriously they only want it because they were told they can't have it.

[dm10003]

style points don't matter here. if they did hip hop artists' crimes would really hurt aa's civil rights -- but they don't.

[dm10003]

if religions were civilly penalized for tackiness... well.... they'd be in trouble.

[Pie7]

Agreed.

[dm10003]

THIS IS ALL ABOUT YOURSELF, ISN'T IT?

[dm10003]

(whoops, went to wrong insert. warning, pressing tab before replying send your comment to the top!)

[mercury613]

So many multiple personalities here. Hmmm.......

[dm10003]

yes, methinks at least 2 of the b!got tr0lls might be one and the same person.