Democrats muscle huge stimulus through Congress

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DAVID ESPO | February 13, 2009 11:36 PM EST | AP

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Sen. Sherrod Brown, D- Ohio, leaves the Senate chambers after voting to pass the stimulus bill Friday, Feb. 13, 2009 on Capitol Hill in Washington. (AP Photo/Evan Vucci)

WASHINGTON — In a major victory for President Barack Obama, Democrats muscled a huge, $787 billion stimulus bill through Congress late Friday night in hopes of combating the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. Republican opposition was nearly unanimous.

After lobbying energetically for the bill, Obama is expected to sign it within a few days, less than a month after taking office.

Supporters said the legislation would save or create 3.5 million jobs. House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., conceded there was no guarantee, but he said that "millions and millions and millions of people will be helped, as they have lost their jobs and can't put food on the table of their families."

Vigorously disagreeing, House Republican leader John Boehner of Ohio dumped a copy of the 1,071-page bill to the floor in a gesture of contempt. "The bill that was about jobs, jobs, jobs has turned into a bill that's about spending, spending, spending," he said.

The Senate approved the measure 60-38 with three GOP moderates providing crucial support _ the only members of their party to back it. Democratic Sen. Sherrod Brown of Ohio cast the decisive vote after flying aboard a government plane from Ohio, where he was mourning his mother's death.

Hours earlier, the House vote was 246-183, with all Republicans opposed to the package of tax cuts and federal spending that Obama has made the centerpiece of his plan for economic recovery.

The legislation, among the costliest ever considered in Congress, provides billions of dollars to aid victims of the recession through unemployment benefits, food stamps, medical care, job retraining and more. Tens of billions are ticketed for the states to offset cuts they might otherwise have to make in aid to schools and local governments, and there is more than $48 billion for transportation projects such as road and bridge construction, mass transit and high-speed rail.

Democrats said the bill's tax cuts would help 95 percent of all Americans, much of the relief in the form of a break of $400 for individuals and $800 for couples. At the insistence of the White House, people who do not earn enough money to owe income taxes are eligible, an attempt to offset the payroll taxes they pay.

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In a bow to political reality, lawmakers included $70 billion to shelter upper middle-class and wealthier taxpayers from an income tax increase that would otherwise hit them, a provision that the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said would do relatively little to create jobs.

Also included were funds for two of Obama's initiatives, the expansion of computerized information technology in the health care industry and billions to create so-called green jobs the administration says will begin reducing the country's dependence on foreign oil.

Asked for his reaction to House passage of the bill, Obama said "thumbs up" and indeed gave a thumbs-up sign as he left the White House with his family for a long weekend in Chicago.

There was little or no suspense about the outcome, although the final act played out over hours and extended late into the night.

That was to allow time for Brown to fly back. He cast his vote more than five hours after most senators had left the Capitol for a 10-day vacation, one of the longest roll calls in Senate history.

Congress cast its votes as federal regulators announced the closing of the Sherman County Bank in Loup City, Neb.; Riverside Bank of the Gulf Coast in Florida, based in Cape Coral; Corn Belt Bank and Trust Co. of Pittsfield, Ill.; and Pinnacle Bank of Beaverton, Ore. They raised to 13 the number of failures this year of federally insured banking companies and were the latest reminders of the toll taken by recession and frozen credit markets.

The day's events at the Capitol were scripted to allow Democratic leaders to fulfill their pledge to send Obama legislation by mid-February.

"Barack Obama, in just a few short weeks as president, has passed one of the biggest packages for economic recovery in our nation's history," said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, anticipating final Senate passage.

The approval also capped an early period of accomplishment for the Democrats, who won control of the White House and expanded their majorities in Congress in last fall's elections.

Since taking office on Jan. 20, the president has signed legislation extending government-financed health care to millions of lower-income children who lack it, a bill that President George W. Bush twice vetoed. He also has placed his signature on a measure making it easier for workers to sue their employers for alleged job discrimination, effectively overturning a ruling by the Supreme Court's conservative majority.

Obama made the stimulus a cornerstone of his economic recovery plan even before he took office, but his calls for bipartisanship were an early casualty.

Republicans complained they had been locked out of the early decisions, and Democrats countered that Boehner had tried to rally opposition even before the president met privately with the GOP rank and file.

In retrospect, said White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel, the White House wasn't "sharp enough" in emphasizing the benefits of the bill as Republicans began to criticize spending on items such as family planning services, anti-smoking programs and reseeding the National Mall.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid faced a different task _ finding enough GOP moderates to give him the 60 votes needed to surmount a variety of procedural hurdles. To do that, he and the White House agreed to trim billions in spending from the original $820 billion House-passed bill, enough to obtain the backing of GOP Sens. Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins of Maine and Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania.

As the final compromise took shape in a frenzied round of bargaining earlier this week, it was trimmed again to hold the support of the moderates, whose opposition to a new program for federal school construction caused anger among House Democrats.

In the end, a compromise was reached that allows states to use funds for modernizing schools. But in a display of displeasure, Pelosi decided to skip the news conference last Wednesday where Reid announced a final agreement.

In addition to tax relief for individuals and businesses who purchase new equipment, lawmakers inserted breaks for first-time homebuyers and consumers purchasing new cars in an attempt to aid two industries particularly hard-hit by the recession. In response to pressure from lawmakers from Pennsylvania, Indiana and elsewhere, the bill was altered at the last minute to permit the buyers of recreational vehicles and motorcycles to claim the same break as those buying cars and light trucks.

In the House, all 246 votes in favor were cast by Democrats. Seven Democrats joined 176 Republicans in opposition.

___

Associated Press writers Andrew Taylor, Julie Hirschfeld Davis, Ann Sanner and Darlene Superville contributed to this report.

WASHINGTON — In a major victory for President Barack Obama, Democrats muscled a huge, $787 billion stimulus bill through Congress late Friday night in hopes of combating the worst economic crisi...
WASHINGTON — In a major victory for President Barack Obama, Democrats muscled a huge, $787 billion stimulus bill through Congress late Friday night in hopes of combating the worst economic crisi...
 
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We supporters of Obama and our country need to keep our expectations of this Stimulus bill under control.

In reality, no single Stimulus bill can rescue our economy and almost all serious economists expect more jobs lost and more bank failures.

It is important to counter the conservatives' talking points. The Bush Stimulus gave back $200 billion in tax rebates and it did nothing. The $300 billion tax cuts in this round also won't work.

The programs in this Stimulus are not pork, but they are also not ready-to-roll infrastructure either. In the short term, the Stimulus rescues important programs such as unemployment compensation and essential services in states that are on the brink of insolvency. In the long term, the program lays the foundation for government efficiencies and important social and physical infrastructure.

No one in the Obama administration has promised this Stimulus bill will supply 3.5 million jobs. The economy is getting worse and although the Stimulus will employ some the rate of unemployment is overwhelms what the Stimulus can supply.

Our president has not yet decided on how to manage the bank insolvency issue. When Geithner talks about a "stress test" he is talking about separating the insolvent banks from the semi-OK banks and the OK banks. Support Obama when the economy is hit by the next wave of bank failures. The government can provide incentives to private investors to pick up some of the failing bank bonds, but not all of them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:07 AM on 02/16/2009
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part 1: Obama gives a thumbs up because he doesn't lose political face. Democrats, for the first time since the Bush/Social Security fight, actually stand together. And that's a good thing. The problem is that they gave away the store before they closed the door and made a stand. By almost all economic measures, the stimulus is too small to have any major effect. And when you take over a third of that amount and turn it into tax cuts instead of stimulus, you weaken it further. Republicans need to understand (although they don't care) that spending creates jobs. The problem with our 70% consumer-based economy is that there is no spending, and no lending for spending, so jobs even tangentially associated with the consumer cycle (construction, production, distribution, selling, service, maintenance, disposal) are diminished. Democrats have to learn that tax cuts do not stimulate the economy. At best, they allow a family to pay down a debt or save. Noble goals, but not letting money flow through the economic stream.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:16 AM on 02/15/2009
- dwright I'm a Fan of dwright 297 fans permalink
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The Dems gave away nothing since the 3 moderate republicans would not have sided with Dems without the changes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:30 PM on 02/15/2009
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part 2: "Democrats said the bill's tax cuts would help 95 percent of all Americans, much of the relief in the form of a break of $400 for individuals and $800 for couples." Hey, I got way more than that from Bush's tax rebate last year, and the economy was in far better (apparent) shape. Yet those rebates did nothing for the economy. Why would an even smaller rebate in a far worse economy do anything better? And why is one-third of a supposed "stimulus" spending bill allocated for tax cuts? To get Repbulican votes? Not a single Republican in the House voted for it anyway. Democrats could have pushed through whatever they wanted on just their votes alone. Only three Republicans in the Senate voted for it. Democrats should have crafted the best bill they wanted and pushed it through on their 58 votes. That's more than enough to pass. If Republicans want to ACTUALLY filibuster -- let them. Make them. Then make them pay. In the end, the Democrat's "muscle" wasn't really very big.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:15 AM on 02/15/2009
- berrycooda I'm a Fan of berrycooda 23 fans permalink

Congress rushed this Stimulus package through because

Pres. Obama wants to sign it on Presidents Day. He said this
awhile back.

Now it can go down in History with his picture as he signs this
"supposedly historical document"

Hopefully Pres. Obama will look it over and if he can use the line item
veto, eliminate some of the "pork" that the Repubs are opposed to.

Who needs electric golf carts...and care of California mice
and a special train from Los Angeles to Las Vegas.
Who will benefit from that.....not me....

We are all hoping that it will help the economy but even Congress
doesn't seem too optimistic because of increasing all the food stamps and unemployment benefits.

Could end up as "business as usual" Alms for the poor and
goodies for the rich.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:45 PM on 02/14/2009
- dianhow I'm a Fan of dianhow 72 fans permalink

Let us not jump to conclusions. This crisis took many years to develop-it will take a good while to begin to see improvement. Why do we always need ' the quick fix " There isn't one. Folks are used to getting info in 30 second sound bites- we need to slow down and think more clearly.
Of all I've read on this blog- seems most people are just ' venting or ranting. OBama has a massive job to do. Let him do it without constant nic picking and predicting gloom & doom. Our system of checks and balances is messy and very difficult. The GOP is aligned with the wealthy / corporate CEO base. And they've made it quite clear with their policies that they do not represent the interests of the average worker / citizen. The incredible greed factor has become too ingrained and a basic tenet of their ideaology.




thinking- and who they are.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:24 PM on 02/15/2009
- bubbuh I'm a Fan of bubbuh 126 fans permalink
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Some folks, Goopsters in particular think that the Goop just has to hold out and the Dem's will lose the almost supermajority they presently have. And, for the past fifty super-majorities were hard to come by. But, then, one wasn't needed. Americans do provide one when they think a super-majority is necessary. For instance, after Hoover and the Goops performed so dismally, Roosevelt had a 3/5ths majority in the Senate throughout his administration.

73rd Congress (1933-1935)

Majority Party: Democrat (59 seats)

Minority Party: Republican (36 seats)

Other Parties: 1 Farmer-Labor

Total Seats: 96

----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------

74th Congress (1935-1937)

Majority Party: Democrat (69 seats)

Minority Party: Republican (25 seats)

Other Parties: 1 Farmer-Labor; 1 Progressive

Total Seats: 96

----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------

75th Congress (1937-1939)

Majority Party: Democrat (76 seats)

Minority Party: Republican (16 seats)

Other Parties: 2 Farmer-Labor; 1 Progressive; 1 Independent

Total Seats: 96

----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------

76th Congress (1939-1941)

Majority Party: Democrat (69 seats)

Minority Party: Republican (23 seats)

Other Parties: 2 Farmer-Labor; 1 Progressive; 1 Independent

Total Seats: 96

----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------­----------

77th Congress (1941-1943)

Majority Party: Democrat (66 seats)

Minority Party: Republican (28 seats)

Other Parties: 1 Independent; 1 Progressive

Total Seats: 96
__________­__________­__________­___

The Goopsters need to take a course.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:54 PM on 02/14/2009
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By 1935, with just 59 votes (the same as the current Democrats have) I think FDR had passed the Glass-Steagall Act, the WPA, Social Security, the National Recovery Act, the TVA you mentioned, and the Wagner Act.

Considering their current stick is the same size, I wish the current President and Congress would swing for the fences instead of waiting for one more utility player to join the bench.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:38 PM on 02/14/2009
- bubbuh I'm a Fan of bubbuh 126 fans permalink
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The super-majority is 3/5ths, not 60 votes. It Roosevelt's time that was 58 votes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:41 PM on 02/14/2009
- bubbuh I'm a Fan of bubbuh 126 fans permalink
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The largest public jobs creation we in the US ever had was Ike's Interstate system . It created "temporary" government jobs from the 1950's through the 1980's in its build phase. It provides tens of thousands of temporary jobs during its maintenance phase.

Of course, we shouldn't overlook the TVA without which most of the red states wouldn't be able to run their PC's today.

The European Discovery of America was a government funded program. In fact, several governments funded it. It created millions f jobs.

And, then, there's those military-Industrial complex jobs that ike warned us about. Seems that his Republican descendants don't think those temporary jons are so bad. But, none the less, those are government jobs paid for by government funds and, therefore, evil.

My sentimental favorite is NASA.. Kennedy's program spawned an electronics industry that banished the vacuum tube and put an end to AT&T's ugly black phones. It let us natter away on the internet while eating microwaved food and watching incredibly cheap color TV's made elsewhere because American corporations in that long gone time refused to retool for the technology developed to pur a man on the moon.

Governments can and do create jobs. Governments can and do create new industries. Governments can and do alter the competitive landscape (ask Boeing about airbus.).

In the meantime, the Goopsters can contemplate those great public works projects of yore: like the Pyramids, the Great Wall of China and the Vatican.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:02 PM on 02/14/2009
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Do you see anything of that scope in this current "stimulus" bill?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:25 PM on 02/14/2009
- bubbuh I'm a Fan of bubbuh 126 fans permalink
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The aggregate of the direct jobs creation is not as big as any of these. However, the new industry spawning stuff has potential.

Personally, I thinnk Krugman is probably right and we will need more direct job creation. BUt, I don't thinkn we will be that much worse off if for its being delyed to a second round. There's a lot of organization to put in place as it is.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:45 PM on 02/14/2009
- carnelld I'm a Fan of carnelld 10 fans permalink

During the last eight years the Bush administartion spent nearly a trillion dollars on the war in Iraq. At the same time Bush ignored America's infra-structure and the American people. The Republicans used talking points like" we are building schools in Iraq and improving Iraq's electrical grid". America's resources were poured out in the desert.

Our infra-structure has continued to deteriorate. We are at the mercy of big oil, as evidenced by the inflated $4 per gallon oil this past summer, our schools are lacking, rural communities need broadband internet, and highways and bridges need repair. A bridge in Minnesota simply fell down
causing death and destruction.

Bush left America broke and an economy in free fall. One of Bin Laden's stated goals is to engage America into never-ending wars and conflicts. His goal is to drain America's resources and wound our economy. Bush was stupid enough to accommodate Bin Laden as we struggle with our economy.

Finally, we have a government that is attempting to do something for the American people.

It's long overdue

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:42 PM on 02/14/2009
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Infrastructure spending is the best part of this bill. Should have been more.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:26 PM on 02/14/2009
- dianhow I'm a Fan of dianhow 72 fans permalink

Yes I agree with all you've said. I think this bill will help us. But it was even better before the Repubs added so many more tax breaks-that's all they know. The GOP does not like to spend on education-­infrastrut­ure- head start-vets armor and anything that helps 'ordinary people ' .
Yep thats right- they ( Bush McCain too ) voted several times AGAINST an increase in Veterans benefits & an increase in the minimum wage. I guess-they just want fat cat Wall St CEO's to make 20 million and get huge tax breaks- - but working folks can't earn a living wage. To me- that tells exactly what their priorities are and have always been for the last 25 + years.. When I was a kid- I recall Eisenhower - he was the last good
" GOP President - he did not favor the wealthy and bleep the middle class.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:59 PM on 02/14/2009
- Windchime I'm a Fan of Windchime 7 fans permalink

Ok, Mighty, from what I have heard and what I have read myself, here are some of the "pork" aspects of the"stimulus" bill:

Money to improve the "wetlands" (as directed by the EPA) do YOU have any idea how long it takes to get EPA approval for anything like this ? (6-7 years minimun.)

ATV and bike trails. (sure, sure, who can afford an ATV?) Nothing more than "shovel-leaning" jobs, at best.

Funding for ACORN (do not deny it is in there, because it IS)

The magnetic "train" funding (I believe to run between Las Vegas and Los angelos?) Pure pork~will take years to get up and running to even begin to build

This is just the tip of the iceberg. If YOU think any of these 4 items will do ANYTHING to stimulate the economy now, you have NOT done the research as I have.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:59 PM on 02/14/2009
- Windchime I'm a Fan of Windchime 7 fans permalink

I forgot to mention. The Congressional office of Budgets (the government economists, on government payroll) does NOT think this bill will stimulate the economy. Let's really think about this.

Why not just enact a 1 year payroll tax holiday? That would put money in people's pocket immediatly....and a lot better than these pet peeve ideas..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:02 PM on 02/14/2009
- theMightyT I'm a Fan of theMightyT 171 fans permalink

is that the same COB that put out a statement that it never said that, and based its review on less than 40% of the bill?

oh right - you don't do talking points.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:13 PM on 02/14/2009
- lj9283 I'm a Fan of lj9283 67 fans permalink
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"CBO anticipates that implementation of H.R. 1 would have a noticeable impact on
economic growth and employment in the next few years."

Page 1 CBO Report issued Jan 26, 2009.

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/99xx/doc9968/hr1.pdf

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:15 PM on 02/14/2009
- theMightyT I'm a Fan of theMightyT 171 fans permalink

money to improve the wetlands is pork? wow. investing in america - pork. interesting.

funding for acorn is the biggest load of b.u.l.l.sh.it to come out of the right. oh ya i forgot, you don't do talking points.

i notice you don't have any links or references to page numbers. i've got the latest pdf version open right now - why don't you point out where this so-called pork is spelled out.

i'll wait.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:11 PM on 02/14/2009
- Windchime I'm a Fan of Windchime 7 fans permalink

Funding for wetland in this case will NOT stimulate anything for at LEAST 6 years. This is the EPA's way of doing things. The same thing holds true for anything in this bill that has to do with building bridges. It will take YEARS for it to get approved.

ACORN funding is in there. I found it. Over 1000 pages and I found it.

I do NOT remember the page number, and even if I had it it may be different than the page number of the bill you are looking at.

I found it on. www.rules.house.gov. In PDA form. My computer almost exploded when I tried to download it....it is massive.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:17 PM on 02/14/2009
- Windchime I'm a Fan of Windchime 7 fans permalink

Sorry..my bad...PDF, not PDA..haha

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:18 PM on 02/14/2009
- lj9283 I'm a Fan of lj9283 67 fans permalink
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Bertha Lewis - CEO ACORN:

"So let's be clear. ACORN isn't getting any of this money. Since it is set aside for non-profit housing developers to help purchase, rehab, and resell foreclosed properties, we aren't eligible for it in the first place."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bertha-lewis/acorn-the-bogeyman-in-the_b_162138.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:12 PM on 02/14/2009
- theMightyT I'm a Fan of theMightyT 171 fans permalink

lol poor windchime.

run along, little tr0//.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:18 PM on 02/14/2009
- Windchime I'm a Fan of Windchime 7 fans permalink

Wrong.

Go to www.rules.house.gov. I believe it is 30 million dollars to ACORN.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:20 PM on 02/14/2009
- bubbuh I'm a Fan of bubbuh 126 fans permalink
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That's an interesting link that you put in to the "Acorn funding" It goes nowhere as do your other claims of pok, I suspect.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:24 PM on 02/14/2009
- dianhow I'm a Fan of dianhow 72 fans permalink

Wind chime- Just more GOP nonsense. Fox news & Limbaugh types nit pick a few items in the bill- to try label it pork. Those items are 'relative' small % of the bill. The GOP has had 20 of the last 28 years in power- with all their PORK projects. GOP PORK = Corporate welfare ( 700 Bil ) to fat cats on Wall ST. huge tax breaks for CO's that sent job overseas. Did you know or care- that the GOP voted no multiple times- to increases in Veterans benefits and an increase in the minimum wage.? GOP does not want to see folks earn a living wage. GOP cares not a wit- about the middle class or even Veterans ! Repubs have shown clearly what their priorities are- all you have to do is open your eyes and see.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:32 PM on 02/15/2009
- theMightyT I'm a Fan of theMightyT 171 fans permalink

cc2 what, specifically, do you object to in the bill? give me page # references if possible...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:31 PM on 02/14/2009
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The price tag.

It could have been easily done in stages with time to evaluate. The most urgent needs first. Neither side would have agreed to all of it. The state bailouts, education, infrastructure and even alternative energies were all good parts of the bill. We will all find out the details to the parts we don't agree with in the near future.

Or was your question just an attempt to bait me?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:43 PM on 02/14/2009
- theMightyT I'm a Fan of theMightyT 171 fans permalink

no, not at all. i hear all the crying about pork, but no one can name any, so i was wondering if you read something that you didn't like and we could discuss.

i don't bait you (usually) - i save that for the dittoheads like windchime.

what's wrong with the price tag, especially when you consider that nobel-prize-winning economists (i think we'll both agree they probably know what they're talking about) say it's too small?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:45 PM on 02/14/2009
- Luvial I'm a Fan of Luvial 17 fans permalink

Every bubble bursts. Spending trillions that we do not have is creating the next bubble. There will obviously be negative consequences down the road. How far, who knows? But borrowing our way out of a credit bubble sounds too good to be true. Enjoy the free lunch.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:19 PM on 02/14/2009
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 618 fans permalink
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And you got your degree in economics from the University of Rush ?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:28 PM on 02/14/2009
- Luvial I'm a Fan of Luvial 17 fans permalink

Scientists at the University of Obama have just announced the invention of the Perpetual Motion Machine.

Just kidding.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:38 PM on 02/14/2009

but its okay to spend a TRILLION DOLLARS on the unjust Iraq War? Did you protest the spending for the war a well? Saying we don't have this money is not accurate. There is enough wealth in the US to pay for all of this..the issue is whether those with lots of expendable wealth will be willing to give it up for the good of the country. After all we ask people to risk and sometimes give their lives for this country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:03 PM on 02/14/2009
- Windchime I'm a Fan of Windchime 7 fans permalink

Stop comparing. Enough is enough.

And who can put a price tag on freedom? I sure can't. It is truly priceless.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:05 PM on 02/14/2009
- Windchime I'm a Fan of Windchime 7 fans permalink

Do YOU have a loved one in the military, moderatepo­liticaljun­kie?

You act as if you do. If so, thank them for their service. If not, please do not talk like you do. Many of us do have relatives in the service. And I do not think any of them appreciate you talking for them. I know I certainly don't want you speaking for ME~

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:07 PM on 02/14/2009
- Luvial I'm a Fan of Luvial 17 fans permalink

Yes, I have been protesting the war, first under Bush and now under Obama. The Drug War, The Iraq War. The Afghan War. You name it.The war (take your pick) is immoral and should be ended. Defense spending should be significantly cut. That would be the opposite of spending money we do not have. Military spending is destroying instead of creating. We need to build a new America. Electric cars, renewable energy. Healthcare for everyone. Education for everyone. Not a dime more for GM Ford or petroleum guzzling cars. Yes, I support that, but who is keeping the troops there now? Who is sending 30-40,000 more troops to Afghanistan? The troops are commiting suicide at high rates because of multiple deployments. Who is bailing out corrupt banks and the obsolete auto industry? Who is spending billions on EMRs when tens of millions of Americans cannot afford to go to a doctor? It is President Obama's war now. I am not a Republican or Democrat. Both parties are pretty much the same. It is just the Democrats' turn to support the same old policies of the past. Don't bother with excuses for what Obama is going to do - someday. I have heard it too many times already. I do not care what he says, I only care what he does.Yeah, I know, he can't do anything now because, blah, blah, blah.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:32 PM on 02/14/2009
- shella2177 I'm a Fan of shella2177 5 fans permalink

Loren, you will see when Obama turns out to be nothing you voted for. As he is already doing.
Please seek therapy now.
It may hurt you a bit much.

Goodness..

Have a good day.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:56 PM on 02/14/2009
- theMightyT I'm a Fan of theMightyT 171 fans permalink

lol obama has done more in 21 days than bush did in 8 years.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:00 PM on 02/14/2009
- Windchime I'm a Fan of Windchime 7 fans permalink

Yep. And we'll be paying for it the rest of our lives.....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:05 PM on 02/14/2009
- Heavy I'm a Fan of Heavy 231 fans permalink
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You are the one that cannot see the reality all around you. Fortunately the majority of voters do. Looked at the polls lately? Republicans seen as arbitrary obstructionists. Obama seen as genuinely trying to fix the mess created by your party.
I can't wait to hear you cry when the bush administration is investigated. Keep posting stupidity. It only aids our cause.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:04 PM on 02/14/2009
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 618 fans permalink
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You misspelled my name. Correct it and I may or may not respond.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:12 PM on 02/14/2009
- dct1999 I'm a Fan of dct1999 323 fans permalink
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Republicans are already taking credit for the bill's passage. They have no shame.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/62181.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:54 PM on 02/14/2009
- Heavy I'm a Fan of Heavy 231 fans permalink
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Yeah, with all of those votes they gave it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:55 PM on 02/14/2009
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 618 fans permalink
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Is there one honest right winger anywhere ? I have NEVER read a post from a right winger that didn't contain at least one lie.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:36 PM on 02/14/2009
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Maybe you should vett his cabinet since you are so good Mr Or Mrs PI.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:41 PM on 02/14/2009
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 618 fans permalink
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Should I write my question in crayon and with pictures so you can understand it ?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:42 PM on 02/14/2009
- shella2177 I'm a Fan of shella2177 5 fans permalink

Now it is just silly.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:34 PM on 02/14/2009
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 618 fans permalink
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shella and loveusa are both shills for the right wing. ( both members since January. )

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:27 PM on 02/14/2009
- shella2177 I'm a Fan of shella2177 5 fans permalink

Why is it that you cannot utilize facts or points only school-age stick and stones?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:28 PM on 02/14/2009
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 618 fans permalink
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I'm not very fond of liars and America haters.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:29 PM on 02/14/2009
- lornejl I'm a Fan of lornejl 618 fans permalink
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Denounce W shella. Show your true stripes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:31 PM on 02/14/2009
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