Bank Nationalization: "As American As Apple Pie"

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February 22, 2009 02:16 PM

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Even before the panel discussion commenced, George Stephanopoulos knew that this would not, in actuality, be a debate. The topic was the nationalization of major U.S. banks, which just a few weeks ago was treated as either inconceivable or illogical. But with the credit crisis growing worse and the chorus of political support growing louder, the ABC host opened up a segment with more of a statement than a question.

"Over the last several weeks, you have seen something that was radioactive even six months ago, the idea of nationalizing major banks in this country, moving towards something of a consensus," Stephanopoulos said.

There wasn't a panelist who disputed the idea -- indeed, naysayers were mocked. Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman scoffed at the notion that the White House was one of the few remaining holdouts, picking apart the Obama administration's comment as a sophisticated sidestep.

"That Gibbs statement was masterful," Krugman said of the remark by Obama's press secretary that a "privately-held banking system" regulated by the government was optimal. Some interpreted it as White House opposition to nationalization, but Krugman argued otherwise. "It sounded like a reassurance [but he] was actually saying what everybody believes. Nobody wants the government running the banking system for any length of time."

Rather, Krugman argues, the government's involvement should be temporary -- just long enough to wipe out shareholders, fire management, clean up the banks, and quickly resell them into the marketplace. He added that it seems likely that there is no other choice.

George Will, who at times has been diametrically opposed to Krugman on economic matters, seemed to be acknowledging much the same when he opened the discussion with his usual bit of highbrow wit.

"This week, a Democratic administration reproved Alan Greenspan for reckless talk on nationalization," he said. "That's how 'through the looking glass' we are."

The debate at which the panelists finally arrived was not over nationalization itself, but how to describe it using a less loaded term.

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"Pre-privatization," offered Krugman.

"What is a leader's job but to put context around it," Suzy Welch remarked to her fellow panelists. Welch, a former editor of the Harvard Business Review, co-writes a column For Business Week with her husband Jack Welch.

The argument, the panelists were saying, was now moot. The insolvency of the banking system not only demanded more direct government intervention, but the process was already taking place.

There was Nouriel Roubini, the economist known as Dr. Doom for predicting the current downturn, who champions a quick and brief nationalization period as the pill that must be swallowed.

"There are some banks that are so insolvent, their assets are well below their liabilities. We have already put a huge amount of money as a government into these banks. This is not any more even a partisan issue, when you have Alan Greenspan, [Sen.] Lindsey Graham and others saying we want a temporary nationalization..."

There was the conservative George Will:

"With credit now treated essentially as a public utility, the difference between what we have and what nationalization would be is marginal. One number: the market capitalization of Bank of America is $19 billion. Since October they have received $45 billion in public funds. So what's the difference?"

And then there was Krugman, who summed it all up by calling nationalization "as American as apple pie."

"We have nationalized 14 banks already this year. We don't call it that but there were 14 banks, two a week, that the FDIC seized because they didn't have enough assets to pay their depositors. The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation says, 'ok, we are taking over. We are cleaning out the stockholders.' We are going to do exactly, as Nouriel said, we should be doing for some major banks. So actually nationalization as properly understood is probably as American as apple pie."

Even before the panel discussion commenced, George Stephanopoulos knew that this would not, in actuality, be a debate. The topic was the nationalization of major U.S. banks, which just a few weeks ago...
Even before the panel discussion commenced, George Stephanopoulos knew that this would not, in actuality, be a debate. The topic was the nationalization of major U.S. banks, which just a few weeks ago...
 
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Resell it to the open market, huh? I see China who has the cash, buying all these banks.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:36 AM on 02/25/2009
- Paul Peete - Huffpost Blogger I'm a Fan of Paul Peete 396 fans permalink

So I heard a comic say he went to buy a new toaster and got a bank for free! It was funny then, now it's kinda possible.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:03 AM on 02/23/2009
- Dave27 I'm a Fan of Dave27 31 fans permalink

"Take my bank, PLEASE!"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:13 AM on 02/23/2009
- bubbuh I'm a Fan of bubbuh 126 fans permalink
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Aw, c'mon. A good bank is worth at least an ipod alternative!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:05 AM on 02/23/2009
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Ice Cream too ?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:03 AM on 02/23/2009
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What does it mean that apple pie is actually German and not American?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:22 AM on 02/23/2009
- Dave27 I'm a Fan of Dave27 31 fans permalink

That's where we got it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:23 AM on 02/23/2009
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Yeah I mean compared to Krugman's example.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:26 AM on 02/23/2009
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Or better yet that the American apple pie originates from New England? Where smaht kids are from?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:25 AM on 02/23/2009
- bubbuh I'm a Fan of bubbuh 126 fans permalink
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No worries. As American as anything means it came from somewhere else.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:30 AM on 02/23/2009
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The capitalism of old is transforming. Conservatives can either catch up with the rest of the world or get left behind.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:15 AM on 02/23/2009
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we're screwed

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:47 PM on 02/22/2009
- Dave27 I'm a Fan of Dave27 31 fans permalink

that's not new

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:54 PM on 02/22/2009

Well said!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:06 AM on 02/23/2009
- Paul Peete - Huffpost Blogger I'm a Fan of Paul Peete 396 fans permalink

May as well enjoy the ride!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:10 AM on 02/23/2009
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Sounds abit Clayton Willimasish...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 AM on 02/23/2009

So Krugman believes that the government has the power and right to nationalize troubled banks and wipe out whats left of the shareholders equity but that same government does not have the power and right to seize the hundreds of billions of dollars in bonuses paid out to Wall Street executives over the prior four years? Why doesn't he push for that and use that money to help the troubled banks balance sheets and troubled homeowners?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:41 PM on 02/22/2009
- HMDMSR I'm a Fan of HMDMSR 43 fans permalink
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He could be a little more aggressive! Would he compensate the shareholders at market price?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:48 PM on 02/22/2009
- Badfickle I'm a Fan of Badfickle 109 fans permalink

the shareholders are already wiped out.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:51 PM on 02/22/2009

BAC and C are not wiped out yet. Plus there are preferred shareholders too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:53 AM on 02/23/2009
- bubbuh I'm a Fan of bubbuh 126 fans permalink
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In point of fact., the government has tremendous power over banks, power far in excess of what it ordinarily exercises. In very few of areas can the government immediately exercise so much power in peace time. The CDC and FDA have similar power in their spheres. And the NRC.

Read and learn
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history.do?action=Article&id=5755

If nationalization proves necessary, be sure everything will be done according to the law; and, another Emergency Banking Act will be passed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:20 AM on 02/23/2009

I know they have the power to nationalize banks. It's amazing that the government supposedly doesn't have the power to seize any of the assets of the irresponsible Wall Street bankers who were responsible for most of the current banking crisis. That's my point. Krugman wants to hold the shareholders and the taxpayers responsible even though they had no say in how the banks were irresponsibly managed. Read and learn.

I assume your last sentence was sarcastic. The U.S. government follows no true law or I should say cares little about true justice.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:53 AM on 02/23/2009
- Dave27 I'm a Fan of Dave27 31 fans permalink

Yes, I know this is simplistic, but true.

All you h aters are only consuming yourselves and missing so much of life.

You can get over that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:38 PM on 02/22/2009
- Johnagain I'm a Fan of Johnagain 45 fans permalink
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Pull your head out of your @ss. Let the adults have a discussion about important issues.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:07 AM on 02/23/2009
- Dave27 I'm a Fan of Dave27 31 fans permalink

Aww, poor guy, you took it personally. Apparently it applies.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:21 AM on 02/23/2009
- Dave27 I'm a Fan of Dave27 31 fans permalink

Maybe, before we nationalize the FED, we should re-nationalize the Pentagon.

I hope this isn't a second posting, if so, sorry.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:08 PM on 02/22/2009
- bubbuh I'm a Fan of bubbuh 126 fans permalink
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I'm not certatin how one renationalizes things; but, it would have to be done to the Federal Reserve as well since it is already part of our government unlike, oh, Citibank.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:25 PM on 02/22/2009
- Dave27 I'm a Fan of Dave27 31 fans permalink

Well, i guess no one went there, but i was referring to all the private contractors, that shouldn't be on the front, representing us.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:29 PM on 02/22/2009
- JohnA581 I'm a Fan of JohnA581 3 fans permalink
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The FED is not part of the government. Use google for like 5 minutes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:29 PM on 02/22/2009
- rf-hawaii I'm a Fan of rf-hawaii 18 fans permalink

The FED is an old and successful scam against the American people and is definitely not part of the government.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:21 AM on 02/23/2009
- bubbuh I'm a Fan of bubbuh 126 fans permalink
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On December 23, 1913, the Federal Reserve System, which serves as the nation's central bank, was created by an act of Congress. The System consists of a seven member Board of Governors with headquarters in Washington, D.C., and twelve Reserve Banks located in major cities throughout the United States.

Who appoints the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve?
http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/frseries/frseri.htm

Who pays the employess of the Federal Reserve?
http://www.federalreserve.gov/

Please note the URL qualifier

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:56 AM on 02/23/2009

from The Nation;

Grover Norquist: 'Field Marshal' of the Bush Plan

Yet even while emerging as a Washington power broker, Norquist has held on to the irreverent, in-your-face style that has been his trademark since his earliest days as a college activist in the 1970s. "I've been a 'winger' from way back," he says. "I was an anti-Communist first, and then I became an economic conservative. I think I've gotten more radical as I've gotten older." Today, he can barely suppress his glee at how much the movement has succeeded, saying that politics is shifting to the right while he remains constant. "I started out as a right-winger, and when I retire I want to be a squishy middle-of-­the-roader­," he jokes, chortling at the thought. To Norquist, who loves being called a revolutionary, hardly an agency of government is not worth abolishing, from the Internal Revenue Service and the Food and Drug Administration to the Education Department and the National Endowment for the Arts. "My goal is to cut government in half in twenty-five years," he says, "to get it down to the size where we can drown it in the bathtub."

Now what does that mean?
what do you have to do to bring that about?
just sayin...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:07 PM on 02/22/2009
- Dave27 I'm a Fan of Dave27 31 fans permalink

The voters did move to the right, and the one thing that was most disappointing about Clinton, is that he accepted the center being pulled to the right.

I still think it's based on con, and hope that every progressive makes their voice heard and their vote count.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:11 PM on 02/22/2009

how much money did they put into the southern stradegy ,think tanks and radio and fox?
thats alot of effort,no?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:14 PM on 02/22/2009
- noesis I'm a Fan of noesis 65 fans permalink
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But surprising seeing as how bubba was a card carrying member of the DLC. All you need to know about the DLC is that one of their major sponsors is the effin Bladley Foundation! Talk about e v i l.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:43 PM on 02/22/2009
- bubbuh I'm a Fan of bubbuh 126 fans permalink
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Has Norquist been elected to anything? As an Eminence Grise has dhe one anything which made life better? He is just another Rand wannabee who can't see the real problems because he keeps focusing on our varous imperfect solutions for solving said problems. He wants to "drown" government. Yippee. That'll fix everything if you like the hunter/gatherer life. And even then, especially then there are still going to be social rules with harsh penalties for the rulebreakers.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:18 PM on 02/22/2009

no he hasnt been elected thats for the chumps.
Hes too powerful for that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:25 PM on 02/22/2009
- noesis I'm a Fan of noesis 65 fans permalink
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Hey c'mon, I like Grover...the blue fuzzy one.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:19 PM on 02/22/2009
- Dave27 I'm a Fan of Dave27 31 fans permalink

I'll bet Norquist would be better blue, too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:26 PM on 02/22/2009
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How can these people in this video simply gloss over the fact that this was a planned Scheme?

Who pays their salaries? The Elite owned Media or the Elite Owned Banks?

This needs not a Commission but a FULL BLOWN Investigation. Never has so much money been taken for Banks, Americans, and used the Media to market the Scheme.

Are these people fearful of the Elites who would terminate their careers?

Who cares what these talking heads with NO NERVE say! Too bad they will only blame the 300 million American People because we are the only ones with NO Representation in the Media!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:00 PM on 02/22/2009
- bubbuh I'm a Fan of bubbuh 126 fans permalink
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We are the illuminati. We fear no one. We used to fear Mike Myers; but, then he made The Love Guru and we know he has definitely lost his mojo. So, Booowah hahahaha.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:07 PM on 02/22/2009
- Blindfaith I'm a Fan of Blindfaith 2 fans permalink

Orwell - need I say more?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:22 PM on 02/22/2009
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elb938 wrote (regarding my missive to provide some SOLUTIONS to our current crisis & my DOGGING him for a response)..

"Are you getting frustrated?"

--

No... I'm content that my challenge to you (et al) & your COWARDLY responses have, in NO UNCERTAIN terms, exposed you as the vapid, shallow, unthinking, unknowing, uneducated, BOORS that you are.

Quite ENJOYABLE, in point of fact.... giving your lollipop coated, snot streaked, faces the SLAPS that they so deserve.

Keep up the good work.... you haven't let me down YET.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:58 PM on 02/22/2009
- theMightyT I'm a Fan of theMightyT 168 fans permalink

hm... why are my posts now not showing up?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:57 PM on 02/22/2009
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Forget it Jake... it's Chinatown.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:01 PM on 02/22/2009
- Dave27 I'm a Fan of Dave27 31 fans permalink

The server was watching the Oscars.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:02 PM on 02/22/2009
- theMightyT I'm a Fan of theMightyT 168 fans permalink

must have been... NOW they're there.

stu.pid server

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:07 PM on 02/22/2009
- theMightyT I'm a Fan of theMightyT 168 fans permalink

truthynesslover See Profile I'm a Fan of truthynesslover I'm a fan of this user permalink
When they get arrested?deported?
and drug dealers could be considered "rebels",no?
They take all their stuff and sell it when caught.
==========­==========­==========­==========­==========­==========­==========­===

you're confusing emigrant with immi.gra.nt

leaving the collective (in Marx's Ru.ssia) was as bad as being a re.bel - hence lumping an emigrant in with an e.ne.my of the sta.te.

as far as i know, America doesn't confiscate the property of those who leave the collective, unless the person is emigrating to e.vi.l soc.i.alist F.rance.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:57 PM on 02/22/2009
- HMDMSR I'm a Fan of HMDMSR 43 fans permalink
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Just to be clear, the Manifesto was written in 1846--while Marx and Engels were young. In Marx's more mature writings, he was skeptical that Russia had the potential for an authentic communist revolution. Lenin and Trotsky held similar views. There was never a Marx's Russia. Also, many Americans confuse Russia with the Soviet Union. .

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:05 PM on 02/22/2009
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He never MEANT for his "intellectual exercise" to be tried in the "real world".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:08 PM on 02/22/2009
- bubbuh I'm a Fan of bubbuh 126 fans permalink
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Many Americans xonfuse 50 state governments with small government, too. We Americans are confused a lot. It's why we liked soapy dribel like "Lost."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:11 PM on 02/22/2009
- theMightyT I'm a Fan of theMightyT 168 fans permalink

Stalin's Soviet Union was probably the most brutal interpretation of Marxist thought... but since we're blue-skying the Marxist planks, sure... there never was a Marxist russia.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:14 PM on 02/22/2009
- Dave27 I'm a Fan of Dave27 31 fans permalink

Hmm, there's been a "size" thread here from the right wing. I wonder what that's about.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:56 PM on 02/22/2009
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