Carbon Emissions Creating Acidic Oceans

The Guardian:

Human pollution is turning the seas into acid so quickly that the coming decades will recreate conditions not seen on Earth since the time of the dinosaurs, scientists will warn today.

The rapid acidification is caused by the massive amounts of carbon dioxide belched from chimneys and exhausts that dissolve in the ocean. The chemical change is placing "unprecedented" pressure on marine life such as shellfish and lobsters and could cause widespread extinctions, the experts say.

Read the whole story: The Guardian

Comments

[AtheistUS]

02:18 AM on 03/11/2009

I don't think there could be coincidence in corals death and stress we put on environment. And it seems that most scientists also think these two things are related, and link coral death to global warming. Any sensitive indicator of our activity is interesting of course.

But exact mechanism seems not clear yet. It is probably not just pH, or not pH at all. Bacterial pathogens activity depends on temperature and such mechanism is not unique to corals.

http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/bacterial-pathogens-and-rising-temperatures-threaten-coral-health-18256.html
http://www.capecodtoday.com/blogs/index.php/2009/01/30/title-186?blog=53

Coral health depends on algae. And heat disturbs this relationship. There are different kinds of corals, and some are OK and may survive - please see especially the first of the following links:

http://www.ehponline.org/members/2008/116-7/focus.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/08/080826124359.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080718085114.htm

I am not an expert here, but seems people do serious work trying to research this.

[Richard2]

02:11 PM on 03/10/2009

What a misleading headline! Can anyone here identify any oceans that are acidic? Any bodies of salt water that have turned acidic? Salt lakes perhaps?

[fumes]

02:42 PM on 03/10/2009

{{{crickets}}}

[Pharos]

04:13 PM on 03/10/2009

That is a technicality, the effect on the ocean due to a change in pH remains a real issue.

[lasvegaslily]

10:47 AM on 03/10/2009

CO2 concentrations are at their highest in 650,000 years.

See http://globalclimatechange.jpl.nasa.gov/

[denny8844]

11:12 AM on 03/10/2009

This site also showed that 2008 was the coldest of the decade and that a scientist at Uw Mil says we have been flatlining for a while.

[Pharos]

11:34 AM on 03/10/2009

2000 was colder than 2008. Average temperature still going up. Since you don't define "for a while" I can't comment but it doesn't change the fact the temperature is going up.

[peterg76]

02:13 PM on 03/10/2009

One year out of eight did not have record-breaking high temperatures. Not exactly reassuring.

[fumes]

11:14 AM on 03/10/2009

r u scared?

[Pharos]

11:37 AM on 03/10/2009

Of people like you, yes.

[friedfish2718]

10:31 AM on 03/10/2009

From the March 7, 2002 issue of Nature, David M. Anderson et al. compared the chemistry of
today's oceans with that of ice age oceans 20,000 years ago have concluded that pH levels
were about the same, proving that the ocean's composition remains relatively stable over
long periods of time. Shells at ocean bottom acts like a pH buffer. Although the paper is
dated (2002) plenty of human co2 emissions have already been done.

Still, it is valid to be concerned about the effect of atmospheric co2 on the acidification
of ocean since co2 is the proximate cause of acidification.

The problem with many current papers is the underlying dishonesty, where common issues
(in the current case, pH buffers) which may impede the AGW agenda gets swept under the rug.
Also the same papers neglect the role of other emissions such as ammonia (US farming produces
about 3M tonnes/year) which can neutralize co2.

Many academics are fighting for grants. The possibility of funding increases greatly if
one can promote AGW.

[melmoid]

10:48 AM on 03/10/2009

I don't recall ever seeing a chemical equation for CO2 being neutralized by methane. Can you write it down here for me?

[Exusian]

01:20 PM on 03/10/2009

Climate change tro lls talking about dishonesty, now that's a good one.

First, you obviously need to read a chemistry primer.

Second, even ignoring your lack of knowledge of chemistry, 3 million tonnes of ammonia would neutralize how much of the 34.8-36 billion tonnes of CO2 (9.5-10 GT C) that human industrial and agricultural activity emits each year?

Third, there is around 370 billion tonnes (GT) more carbon in the active carbon cycle (atmosphere, ocean, biosphere) than there was during the last ice age because that carbon was locked in fossil fuels during the last ice age.

Get a grip on reality.

[lthuedk 1]

10:29 AM on 03/10/2009

Nothing brings the planet killing corporate genuflectors out faster than Science and Global Warming. If they only knew how dumb they are. They simply no longer matter. They should however stand down and out of the way so Liberals can save their children from their anti-science parents.

Anti-Science, anti nuance, anti evolution, anti choice, anti-American. What a gift to their kids.

http://www.light-to-dark.com/bypass.html

[UbiVeritas]

02:03 PM on 03/10/2009

Pro-truth, pro-honesty, pro-life, pro-protection of innocents -- sounds like a gift to me!

[kc7999]

10:23 AM on 03/10/2009

True: A pH change of -0.5 would not kill most animals...seals, dolphin, whales...at least, not directly by acid burns. Nor would it noticably change my summer beach experience or singe any surfers. [[What the anti-environmentalists usually fail to mention: the BASE of the food chain...plankton, etc, are WAY mroe suscepible to any small but long-term changes in their environment. The starvation would affect the food chain all the way up.]]

True: pH can vary by season and by location, seemingly randomly, within a certain range (i.e. 8.0-8.3) [[What they tend to omit here is that while many *individuals* can withstand even years-long changes in environmental conditions, permanent alterations of their environment can still eventually wipe out the species by affecting reproductive rates, mating, and juvenile mortality]]

True: conditions on earth (both temp and acidity) have fluctuated greatly for millions of years, and much greater global warming and acidification events have happened quite naturally many times, without human intervention. [[What is often overlooked is that while 250 yrs for a -0.1 pH drop may seem like a long time, most major climate change in Earth's history happened on the order of MILLIONS of years...long enough for species to either adapt or evolve into new species. Shorter time-spans resulted in mass extinctions.]]

[denny8844]

10:14 AM on 03/10/2009

The full article says they are having the conference to " shock politicians into taking action on the global warming crisis" How about doing what science is all about/ Doing non political scientific research and then letting those who have the responsiblity to make public policy do so knowing that the science was objectice with out being tainted because of some political agenda. Maybe the public would get behind that kind of science rather than all this manipulation of science to achieve what the scientists want to happen

[Pharos]

10:47 AM on 03/10/2009

Part of the problem with your approach is that the science is being distorted so that many political leaders think there is a lack of scientific agreement on the science. You yourself seem to believe the science is being manipulated by scientists, which is simply wrong. Don't you believe scientist have a right to correct the effects of unjustified attacks on their work?

[fumes]

10:06 AM on 03/10/2009

in the beginning before god created heaven and earth..

earth had a venus-like atmosphere of mostly CO2..

yet the oceans didn't boil away..

and they weren't so acidic that life couldn't start

in the form of blue-green algae (cyanobacteria).

[Pharos]

11:06 AM on 03/10/2009

I just want to be clear. You are OK going back to the conditions that were unsuitable for human life? It's your right to advocate for that, I just think you need to be up front about it..

[kc7999]

11:09 AM on 03/10/2009

So it'd be OK to kill off everything on Earth but the algae? Nobody is saying that too much CO2 could end all life on earth. Just certain key species high up on the food chain (i.e. Homo Sapiens).

[fumes]

11:17 AM on 03/10/2009

the food chain starts small kc and goes up.

[mountainweb]

08:55 AM on 03/10/2009

Just what we need another dumb "the experts say" pontification not backed up by any facts! Yet another swarm of "chicken littles" taking our attention off of the real problems.

[hotwire]

08:14 AM on 03/10/2009

If the Oceans are so acidic why are all those Seals, in the photo, going INTO the water instead of out of it?

[HeevenSteven]

08:20 AM on 03/10/2009

Duh, because that's where dinner is?

[hotwire]

08:29 AM on 03/10/2009

They must have spotted big Al flopping around and thought he was a big Flounder. Do you think?

[rocketman69]

06:58 AM on 03/10/2009

If all that CO2 is going into the oceans, how is it heating up the earth?

[HeevenSteven]

08:19 AM on 03/10/2009

You should change your moniker to rocketscientist.

[lasvegaslily]

10:41 AM on 03/10/2009

The site link below will explain how the increase in CO2 in our atmosphere brings about climate change.

I recommend this site for anyone with questions.

http://globalclimatechange.jpl.nasa.gov/

[ThermoChemist]

10:51 AM on 03/10/2009

Here's another site for anyone with questions:

http://gristmill.grist.org/skeptics

[Narpets]

06:43 AM on 03/10/2009

Since the Earth refuses to warm significantly enough we must turn to the old stand by... acid.

Global acidity anyone?

[Pharos]

10:54 AM on 03/10/2009

Sorry, still warming.

[valkyrie607]

12:59 AM on 03/11/2009

Both things can happen at the same time! Amazing, but true!

[JustAHumanOnEarth]

02:18 AM on 03/10/2009

We're not warming anymore so your back to acid again? LOL

[Pharos]

10:53 AM on 03/10/2009

We are still warming.

I took the yearly average temperature and averaged it each decade starting in 1880. The last point is 2000 to 2008. Results in degrees.

-0.26 1880 to 1889
-0.27 1890 to 1899
-0.26 1900 to 1909
-0.29 1910 to 1919
-0.15 1920 to 1929
-0.03 1930 to 1939
0.06 1940 to 1949
-0.03 1950 to 1959
-0.02 1960 to 1969
-0.01 1970 to 1979
0.18 1980 to 1989
0.32 1990 to 1999
0.51 2000 to 2008

SOURCE
GLOBAL Land-Ocean Temperature Index in .01 C base period: 1951-1980

sources: GHCN 1880-01/2009 + SST: 1880-11/1981 HadISST1
12/1981-01/2009 Reynolds v2
using elimination of outliers and homogeneity adjustment
Notes: 1950 DJF = Dec 1949 - Feb 1950 ; ***** = missing

[SFTor]

01:59 AM on 03/10/2009

It also appears that ocean Ph is most certainly alkaline, currently at 8.104 Ph, down from 8.179 in 1750, if we can trust the latter number, as Ph as a measure was only introduced to science in 1909.

[hotwire]

08:19 AM on 03/10/2009

If your figures are true, that is a very insignificant drop in ph over a 250 year period, I would think.

[frantaylor]

09:43 AM on 03/10/2009

That is actually QUITE HUGE from a biological point of view. Biological systems are quite fragile with respect to pH and a very tiny change can wreak havoc.

[Exusian]

01:33 PM on 03/10/2009

A drop in pH from a higher number to a lower number is by dfinition acidification, meaning there are more hydrogen ions that there were before the drop.

Oh, and note the proper spelling of pH.

[fumes]

02:04 PM on 03/10/2009

''A drop in pH from a higher number to a lower number is by dfinition acidification''

not true:

it's called ''less alkaline'' until pH 7, THEN you can use the word ''acidification''.

[Exusian]

11:27 PM on 03/10/2009

Bzzzzt! Wrong, fumes. You just flunked chemistry 101.

You get to call a solution with a pH of less than 7 an acid.

Acidification is a drop in a solution's pH, regardless of where on the pH scale that solution started.

[SFTor]

01:54 AM on 03/10/2009

This might be of some interest, although it is not entirely in line with the current discussion:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080415101021.htm

Yet to me it does speak to the supposed fragility of corals. If acidification of the oceans is a problem, one would assume it to be in evidence there.