More Americans Say They Have No Religion

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RACHEL ZOLL | 03/ 9/09 12:14 AM | AP

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HOLD FOR RELEASE UNTIL 12:01 A.M.; graphic shows the breakdown of religious traditions by year

A wide-ranging study on American religious life found that the Roman Catholic population has been shifting out o of the Northeast to the Southwest, the percentage of Christians in the nation has declined and more people say they have no religion at all.

Fifteen percent of respondents said they had no religion, an increase from 14.2 percent in 2001 and 8.2 percent in 1990, according to the American Religious Identification Survey.

Northern New England surpassed the Pacific Northwest as the least religious region, with Vermont reporting the highest share of those claiming no religion, at 34 percent. Still, the study found that the numbers of Americans with no religion rose in every state.

"No other religious bloc has kept such a pace in every state," the study's authors said.

In the Northeast, self-identified Catholics made up 36 percent of adults last year, down from 43 percent in 1990. At the same time, however, Catholics grew to about one-third of the adult population in California and Texas, and one-quarter of Floridians, largely due to Latino immigration, according to the research.

Nationally, Catholics remain the largest religious group, with 57 million people saying they belong to the church. The tradition gained 11 million followers since 1990, but its share of the population fell by about a percentage point to 25 percent.

Christians who aren't Catholic also are a declining segment of the country.

In 2008, Christians comprised 76 percent of U.S. adults, compared to about 77 percent in 2001 and about 86 percent in 1990. Researchers said the dwindling ranks of mainline Protestants, including Methodists, Lutherans and Episcopalians, largely explains the shift. Over the last seven years, mainline Protestants dropped from just over 17 percent to 12.9 percent of the population.

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The report from The Program on Public Values at Trinity College in Hartford, Conn., surveyed 54,461 adults in English or Spanish from February through November of last year. It has a margin of error of plus or minus 0.5 percentage points. The findings are part of a series of studies on American religion by the program that will later look more closely at reasons behind the trends.

The current survey, being released Monday, found traditional organized religion playing less of a role in many lives. Thirty percent of married couples did not have a religious wedding ceremony and 27 percent of respondents said they did not want a religious funeral.

About 12 percent of Americans believe in a higher power but not the personal God at the core of monotheistic faiths. And, since 1990, a slightly greater share of respondents _ 1.2 percent _ said they were part of new religious movements, including Scientology, Wicca and Santeria.

The study also found signs of a growing influence of churches that either don't belong to a denomination or play down their membership in a religious group.

Respondents who called themselves "non-denominational Christian" grew from 0.1 percent in 1990 to 3.5 percent last year. Congregations that most often use the term are megachurches considered "seeker sensitive." They use rock style music and less structured prayer to attract people who don't usually attend church. Researchers also found a small increase in those who prefer being called evangelical or born-again, rather than claim membership in a denomination.

Evangelical or born-again Americans make up 34 percent of all American adults and 45 percent of all Christians and Catholics, the study found. Researchers found that 18 percent of Catholics consider themselves born-again or evangelical, and nearly 39 percent of mainline Protestants prefer those labels. Many mainline Protestant groups are riven by conflict over how they should interpret what the Bible says about gay relationships, salvation and other issues.

The percentage of Pentecostals remained mostly steady since 1990 at 3.5 percent, a surprising finding considering the dramatic spread of the tradition worldwide. Pentecostals are known for a spirited form of Christianity that includes speaking in tongues and a belief in modern-day miracles.

Mormon numbers also held steady over the period at 1.4 percent of the population, while the number of Jews who described themselves as religiously observant continued to drop, from 1.8 percent in 1990 to 1.2 percent, or 2.7 million people, last year. Researchers plan a broader survey on people who consider themselves culturally Jewish but aren't religious.

The study found that the percentage of Americans who identified themselves as Muslim grew to 0.6 percent of the population, while growth in Eastern religions such as Buddhism slightly slowed.

___

On the Net:

Survey results: http://www.americanreligionsurvey-aris.org/

A wide-ranging study on American religious life found that the Roman Catholic population has been shifting out o of the Northeast to the Southwest, the percentage of Christians in the nation has decli...
A wide-ranging study on American religious life found that the Roman Catholic population has been shifting out o of the Northeast to the Southwest, the percentage of Christians in the nation has decli...
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One persons religion is another persons superstition

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:45 PM on 03/23/2009

People pray all the time most notably;
before tests and job interviews.

Proof that religion is not dead.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:08 PM on 03/13/2009
- GodIs I'm a Fan of GodIs 12 fans permalink
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Consider the selfish and bitter man. His selfishness and bitterness, like a fire, consume everything but his bitter selfishness. To accept God, one must turn from self-centeredness and live a life of self-denial. Infidels are selfish and selfishness is the seed of eternal ruin. The wicked must be separated from the righteous, but God is not the tormentor in He//. The Devil and his demons will torment the lost. God is love.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:19 PM on 03/12/2009

Consider the selfish and bitter man. His selfishness and bitterness, like a fire, consume everything but his bitter selfishness.

Pharisee! Or today's words: Pot meet kettle...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:56 PM on 03/12/2009
- saami I'm a Fan of saami 15 fans permalink

Everything you wrote is giberish to me, without meaning. I don't believe in a god so you are talking to yourself.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:11 PM on 03/13/2009
- jwcmass I'm a Fan of jwcmass 50 fans permalink

Do yo know what love is?--It doesn't sound like it from your postings. you almost take a savage pleasure in the sufferings of "the lost"

I don't sense any compassion -- just a desire for vengence--which has no place in the Abrahamic faiths-- I don't relly know what faith you "practice"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:14 PM on 03/13/2009

Virtually everyone agrees that science cannot prove or disprove the existence of God. Belief in God is an act of faith. For believers, trying to prove the existence of God is really an act of bad faith. For non-believers, trying to prove that God doesn't exist is a waste of time when believers don't require proof of God's existence.

We are all just trying to make sense of the world we live in. Why should it matter to me or anyone else what another person's religious beliefs are? It is righteous hypocrisy to claim superior knowledge of God over anyone else.

If you are able to find your moral compass through a belief in God, then I say "good for you". But if you say that those without belief in God are immoral, then I say you are a righteous hypocrite.

History has proven that moral and immoral persons are members of all religious persuasions: Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, agnostics, atheists, etc... I doesn't matter to me what you believe. What matters to me is what you do.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:10 PM on 03/12/2009
- jwcmass I'm a Fan of jwcmass 50 fans permalink

Very well put--I couldn't agree with you more.

What ALL of us, whatever we believe should be doing is working to build a better world for our children-- and finding a better way to resolve our differences than the rute force known as war.

We should be working for a world where we not merely tolerate each other--but tryly love each other--and celebrate our diversity, not fear it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:51 PM on 03/13/2009
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"I doesn't matter to me what you believe. What matters to me is what you do."

Why? My world doesn't revolve around you. It's not my job to prop up your beliefs and it's very insecure and, frankly, nar ci ss ist ic for you to expect that of other people.

I'm a non-believer and, like many other non-believers, we are able to find ethical ways to live, positive worldviews and concern for humanity that doesn't involve belief in a god or the supernatural. If that th r eat ens you that's your problem. Don't make it my problem.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:00 PM on 03/14/2009
- jwcmass I'm a Fan of jwcmass 50 fans permalink

I don't want to speak for neoconumb, but reading her or his message, I don't think he or she meant that he or she PESRONALLY is the deider of your path--

I think it was more in a general sense--In the end what we all do DOES affect each other --unless you live on a mountaintop or a desert isle.

What I have been trying to say 9and what I think neoconumb) is saying that for ALL of us, believer and nonbeliever alike, what defines us is our actions, not our beliefs--

There are obviously SOME areas of ethics where we must come together as a society to make rules that we can ALL (or most of us ) agree on) -- and this is the role of politics in society--and it should be secular-- On that I think we can agree-- (Althought certain religious values can inform our politcal views, such as concern for the poor, value of life, providing health care for everyone, ending wars, etc)

But the general principles on which are laws are made are that we each respect each others rights-- One hopes that we in our individual lives will go further than that--but the law is roughly based on that -- On that all persons (believers and nonbelievers) can agree.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:04 PM on 03/15/2009

It always made me curious about the story of Jesus and the 3 wise men; if they knew he was the son of God wouldn't you have thought that they would have had scribes around to record ALL his life not just the last years? Speaking of writings, if his followers really thought he was the son of God why did their stories take 100+ years before they got written down and you know how stories change when they are retold and retold?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:56 AM on 03/12/2009
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Illiterate goat herders don't do a lot of writing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:09 AM on 03/12/2009
- jwcmass I'm a Fan of jwcmass 50 fans permalink

No--but the significane of that in Luke is that that the arrival of the Messiah was not given to Herod in Jeruslame--or to the Chief Priests and elders--or to might Ceasar in Rome--but rather to humbel goat herders-- the poor and outcast of society.

This Messiah would not be a might prince with conquering armies --he would be something entirely different

God doesn't work the way we expect him to work--

The whole message is that even today if you wish to seek him you will find him in the lowly, the oppressed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:09 PM on 03/13/2009

Why would there be scribes when nobody knew of the implications of the birth other than a carpenter and his wife? I doubt that even the parents would have understood the significance. It is unclear that even the Magi had any idea of the implication.

Also, it was not 100+ years. The four gospel books which chronicle the life of Jesus (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) were written about 30-70 years after Jesus died. The church accepts these gospels because they were widely accepted at the time and were written during the lives of those who knew Jesus (or at least during the lives of people who knew those people). There is also evidence that these gospels used other writings as sources.

Imagine if someone wrote a book about the hoIocaust today. That book would not be accepted if it did not coincide with the actual memories of survivors. There would be writings refuting the claims. The same is true of the gospels. Only a few gained wide accpetance, survived time, and were written early enough to have seen the scutiny of early Christians who knew Jesus.

This doesn't mean that absolutely everything in the gospels really happened as described. In fact, scholars can even point to different manuscripts of the same book which do not agree. However, it is likely that much of what is written agrees with the accounts of eyewitnesses.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:33 PM on 03/12/2009

Jesus wasn't really born in December, stars don't stand still.

Matthew may have been backward prophesizing in reference to Psalms 72:10-11.

But, if taken symbolically and not literally it has greater meaning whether it actually occured or not. The writer of Matthew, and several followers tried hard to tie him to the Torah.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:10 PM on 03/12/2009
- jwcmass I'm a Fan of jwcmass 50 fans permalink

First , one has to recognize what the Gospels are--they are not biographies or histories in teh modern sense (although they include biographical and historical material).

Only two of the Gospels, Matthew and Luke even have infancy narratives-- and I think the maji are mentioned only in Matthew.

These Gospels wee written for specific communites, and their aughtors had specific reasons in mind in writing for that community.

For example, the author of Matthew was writing to a community of Jewish Chrisitans--so you will see many references to the Hebrew Scritptures (or Olt Testament).

As to WHY the Gospels weren't written immediately?

The early Christian community didn't think it would be necessary--they thought the parousia (the second coming) would occurr in their lifetimes--so there was no need to write anything down--there were living witnesses to refer to.

it was really only as these witneses (the first generation) if you will began to pass away (and the Roman Jewish War began) that it began to occur to them that they should put some of this in writing (at least the Gospels--the letters of Paul are older)

That's a bit of it--If you are interested in more, I'd recomment an Intro to the New Testament course.

remember, it was a very different world that these people inhabited-- they spoke and thought very differently than we do--so you need to get the context of that world to understand wht they meant.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:03 PM on 03/13/2009

I don't believe that anybody said people don't believe in God anymore. The article is about religious affiliation. I too am soured on religion. So much hypocrisy, so judgemental, so worldly. Churches that feed the rich and let the poor starve to death. I personally do believe in God Almighty but, I gave up on church about 20 years ago. No matter whether it is Catholics, Baptists, Mehodists, or Morman, the main objective of the church is money. It is a load of crap. I prefer to worship personally and by myself. My relationship with God is special and no man or organizaton has a right to tell me how to worship. Big problem with churches in America and elswhere but, not with God.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:46 AM on 03/12/2009
- saami I'm a Fan of saami 15 fans permalink

Many of us do not believe in a god nor religion and miss neither of them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:10 PM on 03/13/2009
- Nosmanic I'm a Fan of Nosmanic 3 fans permalink

Amen tfloyd

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:33 PM on 03/16/2009
- mamacat I'm a Fan of mamacat 130 fans permalink

Losing faith in one's church is not the same thing as losing faith. Der Spiegel is reporting that Germans are leaving the Catholic Church in droves over disgust about the German Pope.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:33 AM on 03/12/2009
- fumes I'm a Fan of fumes 75 fans permalink
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hello kitty!

spot on mamacat..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:36 AM on 03/12/2009
- joceeco I'm a Fan of joceeco 16 fans permalink
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I like the way God responed to sin in the Old Testament, rather then the New, because these corrupt republicans would all be dead by now. God handed out punishment swiftly in the Old Testament, none of that beating around the burning bush with that mercy and stuff. Republicans do not desreve mercy or second chances.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:22 AM on 03/12/2009
- GodIs I'm a Fan of GodIs 12 fans permalink
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When people lose faith in the Lord, they fall into despair and depression. Psychiatrists often prescribe drugs which often result in addiction, thus preventing the person from seeking the solution to his problem, which would be a right relationship with God. Hopelessness may even drive infidels to take their own lives, expecting that death can end their misery, but those without hope will be cast into the outer darkness of He//. “It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God' - (Hebrews 10:31). God is love.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:46 AM on 03/12/2009
- jwcmass I'm a Fan of jwcmass 50 fans permalink

Depression is a neurological disorder of the brain, that can afflict both believer and nonbeliever alike.

I have a relative who is a fervant believer and has struggled most of her life with this disease.

There are also many people who are not believers who live happy and fulfilled lives-- and do not suffer from depression.

So your thesis does not follow.

as for condemning people to hell-- (or seeming to take pleassure in this prospect) --and I could be misunderstanding you--but I am familiiar with the tentets of fundamentalism (of many faiths)
says more about you, than it does about them.

To put it another way, you are operating above your pay grade.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:24 AM on 03/12/2009
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LOL!! Keep dreaming.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:53 AM on 03/12/2009
- joceeco I'm a Fan of joceeco 16 fans permalink
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Shut up!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:22 AM on 03/12/2009
- jwcmass I'm a Fan of jwcmass 50 fans permalink

Sadly, What he doesn't seem to recognize is that the entire message is contradicted by the last sentence-- and in the Hebrew Scriptures the word is hesed, which doesn't have an exact translation inot English--It means merciful love, or lovingkindness.

There is one Psalm (I can't remember at the moment) (and remember, the psalms were songs --the hymnal if you will of the Temple--and they were often meant to be sung antiphonally-- one side would take one line, and then be answered by the other side, and so on) Well, this psalm, every other line is the refrain his 9meaning god's) steadfastlove 9or lovingkindness) will endure forever.

In teh New Testament Jesus once was speaking to someone who thought much like GodIS --that God was some vengeful Demiurge.

His answer was to say "which of you, when your child asks for bread gives him a stone, or when she asks for fish, a serpent? If you who are imperfect love your childrenso, how much more does your heavanly father , who is perfect, love you."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:41 AM on 03/12/2009

It's all a joke to you?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:58 AM on 03/12/2009
- jwcmass I'm a Fan of jwcmass 50 fans permalink

I don't think he is joking. he may be (and making a poor attempt at it--check out his comment below )

Of course I could be wrong, he could be posing, but I have met people who think this way (even about other Christians ).

(it's an extreme form of Calvinism-- one Calvinist from New England infamously preached 250+ years ago"The road to hell is paved with teh skull of unbaptised children") --nice huh?

Here's my take on hell. (and i can't claim to "know" -- it's just from my study of catholic theology.God gives us free will-- we are free to live a liffe of love (and thus, whthre we know it or not, live the kind of life that does draw us towards Him) or one that is empty of love--

Hell is simply God's absence-- nothing else-- The "torment" isn't the sadist's flames--it's the worst human pain--loneliness. I heard one good priest (now a bishop--one of the better ones) use a metaphor of a ma in a space suit in deep space all alone.

Now remember, it's important to realize that this is OUR choice, not God's--if all this exists, God isn't going to damn all the Carl Sagans--(one of God's greates gifts is wonder) As I said, what is important is the kind of life we leave--love is what's important--for it's love that shows faith we may not even realize we have.

Just my opinion

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:17 AM on 03/12/2009

Yes, only those with faith are moral and happy. I'm glad you've figured out how things really are. Now go back and spend your life happily ever after. And remember, since you have everything figured out there is no longer any need for you to write anymore comments in a blog or chat-room discussion.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:02 AM on 03/12/2009
- jwcmass I'm a Fan of jwcmass 50 fans permalink

My own thoughts (living in the northeast) is that I think THE biggest factor in the changes of these numbrs since 1990 has been the clergy abuse scandal in the Catholic church--and more specifically in the failure of the bishops who were responsible to be held accountable.

The Vatican has made a decision to "contain" the damage (in their eyes they don't see the damage done to the victims--they view this from the lens of damage done to their hierarchy--which shows why so much reform is needed) to the priests actually accused of abuse-- and not of teh bishops who enabled them by maintaining the secrecy (thus spiritually abusing the vicitms--even worse than the first assault) and shuffling these predators from parish to parish--with no warning to parents --allowing them to select new victims over and over--

This is the biggest thing to hit the Catholic Church since the reformation, but I don't think the hierarchy recognizes that yet.--and it is far from over.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:37 AM on 03/12/2009
- rich misty I'm a Fan of rich misty 1039 fans permalink
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Marked as favorite... There are many, many problems with the Church... Spanning from theology to the abuse you document (and this abuse is as old as the Church itself too). I think seeing the abuse in a modern light, as inexcusable criminal behavior sanctioned by the institution, is most likely the straw that broke the camel's back.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:45 AM on 03/12/2009
- jwcmass I'm a Fan of jwcmass 50 fans permalink

I agree-- I live in the Archdiocese of Boston--so i am at one of the centers of this. Now the thing that angers me is that Cardinal Law was moved (but to a high profile position in Rome--and he actually got one vote for poep in the last conclave) He was given teh honor to say one of the 9 masses of mourning of the late Pope john Paul (this is a great honor--not something given to a man in disgrace)

None of the othr auxiliary bishops were removed--they have all been promoted and moved on (some have since retired)

One, the bishop of Manchester, NH should have been prosecuted--since as a licensed social worker, he was a mandated reporter (at the time, bishops and priests were not mandated reporters under MASS law.

But to me the worst thing these men did was to make settlements with the victims --but as part of the settlements they were ordered to KEEP SILENT--as if THEY had done something wrong. Can you imagine the damage this does to a child? It's catastrophic--and why I call it not just sexual abuse or emotional abuse, but also spiritual abuse (how do these victims avail themselves of ths sacraments again--how could they ever trust a priest?)

And the fact that the bishops(and this is in the documents) are more concerned with the priest/ pedophiles than with the vicitms is shameful.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:09 AM on 03/12/2009

I read these posts and begin to wonder if you are a priest. I have known a handful of priests who think and talk like you write. Your take on the Roman Catholic Church and its problems is excellent, and your knowledge is outstanding. Thanks for your insight.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:05 PM on 03/12/2009
- jwcmass I'm a Fan of jwcmass 50 fans permalink

You are close--i was in the seminary--right here in boston (never personally witnessed anything untoward-but i did notice things like whenever Cardinal Law would visit he would go on about our vow of obediance --I began to wonder if this man had a thing with control issues0

I went to Israel in 1987 on an archeological dig-- and got rather ill there (though I did very much enjoy the experience and the country) Unfortunately due to this chronic ill ness I was unable to complete my studies.

But to be honest, the more i saw, the more I became concerned about the hierarchical institution. As you have no doubt gathered from my posts, i am an ideaist, some would say a naive idealist-- and when I joined, it wasn't to have power over people, it was because I genuinely wanted to serve (even after, such work as I've been abe to do is in the field of human services.)

I think I've mentioned it here before, but I've become convinced that the hierarchy --as an institution is functioning as an addict (in this case to power as expressed in the male celibate clerical mode). This is what is at the root of the chrch's problems, and it badly needs reform. Unfortunately, this pope is taking it in the wrong direction.

I'm not saying there aren't fine people serving --there are. But there needs to be more accountability to the laity (for a start).

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:37 PM on 03/14/2009
- rich misty I'm a Fan of rich misty 1039 fans permalink
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I see scared Christians here lying about the history of their religion.

That is all I need to see.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:47 AM on 03/12/2009
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I think people see what they want to see.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:10 AM on 03/12/2009
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Oh boy! You can say that again! Especially in regard to "seeing" invisible stuff.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:28 AM on 03/12/2009
- jwcmass I'm a Fan of jwcmass 50 fans permalink

While your description may ring true for many, and while I think there is a bit of truth in it for all of us, you should know that there are many in the Christian community who are working to face the past and try to heal the harms that our fellow believers have caused. (I happen to be a Christian, so I ca really speak best in this area--and especially in the area of the sad history of Christian persecution of the Jews)

I would HIGHLY recommend to every Christian (and indeed to everyin--for it shows what we are all capable of) the book and/or film by Jamess Carroll "Constantine's Sword" telling the story of the "longest hatred" and how it happened and what it made possible (the Holocaust would not have been possible without it-- even though no church DIRECTLY supported it. Centuries of teaching contempt for Jews had paved the way for the "race hatred " of Hitler and his Nazis-- allowed a Pope to remain silent--

Even now, we have films made, like Mel Gibson's "the Passion" which inaccurately depict "the oldest lie" (which has cost the lives of untold thousand of Jews) --that the Jews had executed Jesus-- when he was executed by the Romans for political reasons.

This cancer has been at the heart of Christianity for too long--and there are many paople of good will, both Christian and Jewish, who are working hard to bring about a long overdue reconciliation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:18 AM on 03/12/2009

Back in Jesus' time the Jews thought of him as a threat (remember people calling him King of the Jews?) and did nothing to prevent this from happening. That is why the Jews do not beleive he was the son of God.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:37 AM on 03/12/2009

What do you make of the non-Christians here lying about the history of the same religion?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:04 PM on 03/12/2009
- berrycooda I'm a Fan of berrycooda 22 fans permalink


The world is full of sinners.
Jesus came to earth to save the sinner.....

Maybe a lot of the Christians have already gone to Heaven...

Anyway, who is doing the counting....(or should I say guessing or hoping)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:44 AM on 03/12/2009
- EAHARA I'm a Fan of EAHARA 2 fans permalink
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What's the surprise here?

That we live in a pagan nation, devoid of any morals or ethical base?

Hardly a surprise.

Perhaps people have just gotten tired of putting on a show and decide they should live out the honesty of their lack of religion.

What does it all mean?

Nothing.

Other than something for the atheists and pseudo-religious to cheer about.

"Isn't this good news?" they all exclaim to each other. "Soon we won't have any of these pesky Christians around at all."

I just hope you like the Utopia they are planning on constructing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:55 PM on 03/11/2009
- paulalex I'm a Fan of paulalex 12 fans permalink

"Isn't this good news?" they all exclaim to each other. "Soon we won't have any of these pesky Christians around at all."

Is that what you really think "they" say?

How scared you sound.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:25 PM on 03/11/2009
- dj5850 I'm a Fan of dj5850 14 fans permalink

Soon we won't have any of these pesky Christians around at all."

Yeah!!!!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:05 AM on 03/12/2009
- jwcmass I'm a Fan of jwcmass 50 fans permalink

EAHARA,

It's interesting that you mention utopia as an athiestic concept--the Book (and one assume s the term) was written by Sir Thomas More --who was a devout Catholic.

He was so devoted to his faith that he refused to take an oath recognizing the King of England (Henry VIII) as the Head of the Church in England, and was beheaded.

But he was also so devoted that he had burned as heretics those who were dissenters from Rome when he was Chancellor (a top legal postion in England at the time) .

Having religious faith is no gurantee that the person will be virtuous, and lacking faith is no guarantee that a person will be vicious (in the literal sense of that word--full of vices).

Ultimately what defines is not our beliefs , but our actions-- I suggest you read the Sern on the Mount, to see what Jesus said about that--certainly he was more concerned about a person's actions than their "list of beliefs"

In both Testaments, what is at the heart of the matter is COVENANT--which is about relationships--with God, and with each other (and there are all kinds of ways for people who don't believe in God to be in a relaionship without even knowing about it "Lord, when did I feed yu?--When you did for the least of these, you did it for me".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:56 PM on 03/15/2009
- wltdnfaded I'm a Fan of wltdnfaded 63 fans permalink
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Thank God for atheists!

(Wrap yer noggins round that one, freepers)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:29 PM on 03/11/2009
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Just like a wingnut to say something ridiculous.

(careful you're wingnuttery is showing)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:48 PM on 03/11/2009
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My IQ is to high to be a brainwashed believer and i have no plan to lower my IQ to be a jebbus sheep.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:14 PM on 03/11/2009
- fumes2 I'm a Fan of fumes2 11 fans permalink
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But not high enough to know which to, two, or too to use.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:00 PM on 03/11/2009

IQ doesn't correlate well with religious/spiritual inclinations, with the exception of the fringe here in the U.S>

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:03 AM on 03/12/2009
- rich misty I'm a Fan of rich misty 1039 fans permalink
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You are correct, because indoctrination from the time of birth has a powerful effect of blinding the human mind as it develops.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:04 AM on 03/12/2009
- jwcmass I'm a Fan of jwcmass 50 fans permalink

C.S. Lewis graduated from Oxford with one of the highest set of grades in the Universities' History-- And he had been a convinced atheist from the time of being a young man.

He became a Christian as he described it "very reluctantly" and it was a gradual process of persuaion--I wouldn't call it brainwashing-- he was too old for it--and he really needed convincing.

He also went through a real crisi of faith on the meaning of sufferring late in his life (he fell in love late in his life with an American--who then died of cancer)

He's written a couple of boks about it-"Surprised by Joy" and "A Grief Observed" (not 100% sure on that second title)-- he's written many other books as well, and was anything but a fool.

I'm not telling you this as an attempt to "convert" you -- but you may find it interesting to have insight into an intelligent Chrisian thinker's mind.

My philosophy is if you are a believer, then be a good one, whatever your faith tradition, and if you oare not, then be a good nonbeliever-- My own opinion is that how we live is far more important than what we believe--Love is the greatest virtue-- and no one knows all the answers

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:51 AM on 03/12/2009
- Zanti I'm a Fan of Zanti 25 fans permalink
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LOL! Your I.Q. is "to" high?

Thanks for the post of the month!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:13 AM on 03/12/2009
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