A Religious War Heats Up Within Israel's Army

New York Times:

The publication late last week of eyewitness accounts by Israeli soldiers alleging acute mistreatment of Palestinian civilians in the recent Gaza fighting highlights a debate here about the rules of war. But it also exposes something else: the clash between secular liberals and religious nationalists for control over the army and society.

Read the whole story: New York Times

Comments

[jros]

09:16 AM on 03/23/2009

If you want to understand the background to the middle East conflict and ever wondered why the U.S. is in the middle of it, you should read this speech given by an American jew.

http://www.kevinalfredstrom.com/2009/02/a-jewish-defector-warns-america/

Religion is talking -- talking way too much -- about that which cannot be talked about. Whenever you hear someone talking about God, you can pretty much bet on it being self-serving rubbish.

[Ergon]

08:40 AM on 03/23/2009

Blaming religion is easy since it absolves you of personal responsibility. Secular Iraelis are committing war crimes too.

[Earl]

08:18 AM on 03/23/2009

Imagine no religion.

[Bubba Gump]

05:59 AM on 03/23/2009

"He who is merciful to the cruel will end up being cruel to the merciful."

That may be a classical Hebrew text, but how does it square with Proverbs 11:17? "The merciful man does good to his own soul, but he who is cruel troubles his own flesh." What about God's concern for even the "stranger within your gates" to observe the Sabbath? (Exodus 20:10; Deuteronomy 5:14) Or one of my all-time favorites, Proverbs 25:21-22: "If your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink, for you shall heap coals of fire upon his head, and Jehovah shall reward you." That's a promise from God himself!

[TXfemmom]

11:42 PM on 03/22/2009

Organized religion, and the radicals in all of them, are a threat to the spirituality and continued viability of the world.

[marko77]

11:37 PM on 03/22/2009

djk37 See Profile I'm a Fan of djk37 I'm a fan of this user permalink
"THEY have forgotten God and THEY are paying the price..."
I would say that the problem is that God has NOT been forgotten. A world without the divisive powers of religion would be a much better place.
_______________________________________________________________________

Yes, organized religion often divides people as a result of their own ignorance, and this is standard operating procedure on steroids for extremist fundamentalists of every religion. Mainstream religion can't hold a candle to the nut-job fundamentalists. It's always a shame.

[circusfifthfloor]

10:30 PM on 03/22/2009

This will most likely fall on the deaf ears of non-believers, but if the we were to read much of The Old Testament, we will find stories regarding countless decades upon decades where the Children of Israel lived in very troubling times, as if God had forsaken them. Those times are here again, and for the same reasons. THEY have forgotten God and THEY are paying the price, with all the strife and heartbreak. Same God, same children, same human weaknesses....power, greed, nationalism, bigotry. Go ahead....keep it up. Keep praying that YOUR god will smite your self made enemies, and hope THEIR god has taken the day off. Many of my Christian brothers also wish to purge the world of others who do not believe as they do. I suspect God must sometimes just take to His/Her knees and pray for His children. My Lord came as a Lamb, and as God's greatest sacrifice for all. All. He was not David, the warrior king, but a lamb. Peace, humility, kindness, justice, fidelity, hope, charity, and most importantly....Love. As Elvis Costello sang, "What's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding"? Really? Peace and Grace.....CFF

[djk37]

10:54 PM on 03/22/2009

"THEY have forgotten God and THEY are paying the price..."

I would say that the problem is that God has NOT been forgotten. A world without the divisive powers of religion would be a much better place.

[stateMachine]

12:34 AM on 03/23/2009

They pick and choose. In the twelve book of the the Nevi'im, the prophet Micah foretold the destruction of Samaria in 721BC:

"And they covet fields, and take them by violence; and houses,
and take them away: so they oppress a man and his house, even
a man and his heritage.
...They build up Zion with blood, and Jerusalem with iniquity...
Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and
Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as
the high places of the forest.
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain
of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of
the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and
people shall flow unto it.
And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up
to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of
Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in
his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of
the LORD from Jerusalem.
And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong
nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into
plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall
not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn
war any more."

[BigBagel]

11:09 PM on 03/22/2009

What a shame that people murder each other over gibberish.

[kittyma]

10:05 PM on 03/22/2009

Btw, HPo, This is important news! Why is it buried in the post? NYT has had this on its front page. This needs to be addressed. It has the potential to have the US embroiled in a serious and horrible thing.

Please focus on this and not on whether journalists disagree with the :President. i have a problem when the media makes itself the news!

[kittyma]

10:02 PM on 03/22/2009

Right thinking Jews in this country must speak out against this. This country must not support an Israeli administration or an Israel army that is functioning like this. Why should the US be kowtowing to those Israelis who are leading Israel down a horrible path of genocide. What happened to the decency of man and the two state solution?

I can support a fair Israel living side by side with a fair Palestine as two separate states. I cannot support a state that believes that it has a right to kill people who are of a different religion because they are of a different religion. And America should only support that situation as well. I call on Rabbi Michael Learner and other right thinking Jews to call out their Israeli countrymen on this and to stand up for America and American ;philosophies which do not support religious war and religious murder.

[Chazak]

09:07 PM on 03/22/2009

I fear the future. We currently live in a world with the perfect recipe for a another great war. The economy is in tatters throughout the world. When the economy sours people get desperate and they start to follow radical leaders who tend to blame a group or groups of people for all their woes. It happened in the 1930's and it could happen again because humans easily forget.

I believe that Jews/Israelis have a right to self-determination and that Israel has right to exist as a Jewish democratic state, just as much as Iran can exist as an Islamic theocracy. However, there is no excuse for irresponsible leaders who call for holy war and condone the mistreatment of people, it goes against the principles of every major religion.

It is time to end this, it is time for the Palestinians to have a state of their own where they are responsible for their own future and destiny. The issue of refugees should be settled, perhaps monetarily and Israel will have no choice but to cede parts of Jerusalem to the Palestinians as a capital, Jewish areas/historical sites should remain under Israeli control and Arab/Muslim areas should be under the PA. You see how easily I solved the problem, I deserve a peace prize !!

[almazza98]

06:20 PM on 03/23/2009

The problem with this is you probably have no idea how close the Jewish areas and Muslim areas and Christian areas of Jerusalem are, they are practically on top of each other... And a lot of these places are actually Co-Muslim-Christian-Jewish sites, such as in Hebron and Al-Aqsa and The Dome of the Rock/Temple Mount.

[rockyersocksoff]

09:01 PM on 03/22/2009

Decency rules in the IDF...

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072466.html

[SOLERSO68]

09:18 PM on 03/22/2009

I wouldnt read haretz for all the diamonds in the world. Sad to see history repeating itself. Messianic Judaism has never brought anything but pain to Jews. Messianic Jews have never called down the wrath of god on anyone but Jews, in the form of the Romans, who flattened Jerusalem, dismantled "Gods" temple block by block, then sent the Nation of Isreal on its 2000 year diaspora. We all know how that worked out. Not to mention, Messianic Jews are directly responsible for Christianity.

[almazza98]

11:28 PM on 03/22/2009

I am sorry Messianic Jews are not responsible for Christianity, I believe those who are Christians believe it was God who was responsible for it, but of course those who believe Jews are, have a really big ego.

[NewYorkStateofMind]

08:53 PM on 03/22/2009

religion:

it doesn't end well

[valkyrie607]

05:48 PM on 03/22/2009

To use religious edicts to prevent people from showing mercy violates the most basic human decency. Truly, religious fundamentalism, of whatever stripe, is dangerous to all human beings. Any belief system that can be used to dehumanize another group of human beings deserves to be thrown in history's trash heap.

[rockyersocksoff]

09:05 PM on 03/22/2009

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072466.html

[valkyrie607]

12:31 AM on 03/23/2009

Yeah, I saw that. Sickening. Completely.

[omobob]

05:09 PM on 03/22/2009

In 1997 Roni Bar-On was appointed Attorney General, by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, but resigned as a consequence of heavy criticisms related the 'Bar-On Hebron' scandal, which involved allegations against officials that they recommended Bar-On to the position in order to aid organized crime. Now big Ben has apointed Lieberman, an unabashed arab hater, as forgien minister, I believe. Nothing can stop the Israeli right wing from carrying out the "final solution" for the Palestinians. "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." – Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994.

[Hazbara]

04:50 PM on 03/22/2009

These are times when all reason goes out the window
and raw emotions prevail.
If history is any guide, these are the moments that precede a catastrophy.
A false move by anyone, anywhere, will trigger it.