Dems: Opportunity As Gay Marriage Acceptance Grows

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LIZ SIDOTI | May 2, 2009 06:57 PM EST | AP

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FILE - This April 28, 2009 file photo shows gay rights advocate Matthew Arnold-Lloyd of Albany, N.Y., right, meeting nose to nose with an unidentified man opposed to gay marriage during a rally outside the Capitol in Albany, N.Y. Gay marriage legalization in several states and the public's growing acceptance of same-sex unions have Democrats sensing political opportunity and some Republicans re-evaluating their party's hard-line opposition to an issue that long has rallied its base. (AP Photo/Mike Groll, File)

WASHINGTON — Gay marriage legalization in several states and the public's growing acceptance of same-sex unions have Democrats sensing political opportunity and some Republicans re-evaluating their party's hard-line opposition to an issue that long has rallied its base.

In recent weeks, Vermont and Iowa have legalized same-sex marriage, while New York, Maine and New Hampshire have taken steps in that direction. Polls show younger Americans are far are more tolerant on the issue than are older generations. For now at least, the public is much more focused on the troubled economy and two wars than on social issues.

In addition, over the past decade, public acceptance of gay marriage has changed dramatically.

A Quinnipiac University poll released last week found that a majority of people questioned, by a 55-38 percent margin, oppose gay marriage. But it also found that people, by a 57-38 percent margin, support civil unions that would provide marriage-like rights for same-sex couples, indicating a shift toward more acceptance.

With congressional elections next year, Republicans, Democrats and nonpartisan analysts say the changes benefit Democrats, whose bedrock liberals favor gay unions, and disadvantage Republicans, whose conservative base insists that marriage be solely between a man and a woman.

"This is not a sea change. This is a tide that is slowly rising in favor of gay marriage," creating a favorable political situation for Democrats and ever-more difficulty for Republicans, said David McCuan, a political scientist at Sonoma State University in California.

Democrats have a broader base filled with more accepting younger voters, as well as flexibility on the issue. Hard-core liberals support gay marriage, while others, including President Barack Obama, take a more moderate position of civil unions and defer to states on gay marriage.

Conversely, the GOP base is older, smaller and more conservative. Republicans have no place to shift on the issue but to the left, because the party has been identified largely with its rock-solid opposition to gay marriage and civil unions. Also, the GOP has no titular head setting the tone on this or other issues.

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In recent months, proponents have used state legislatures and court challenges to legalize gay marriage, mindful that the majority of the public still isn't supportive and successful ballot measures would be less likely.

Because of high court rulings, gay marriage now is legal in Iowa, Massachusetts and Connecticut. A Vermont law allowing gay marriage will take effect in September. New Hampshire and New Jersey, where same-sex couples can enter into civil unions, are considering gay marriage legislation. So are Maine and New York.

Political insiders no doubt will pay close attention to developments in Iowa and New Hampshire, early presidential voting states, to see how the issue plays out in the run-up to the 2012 presidential election.

Despite the changes, gay-marriage opponents are buoyed by a voter initiative in California that blocked the state from allowing gay marriage, and by the 29 states where voters have approved state constitutional amendments banning gay marriage.

For years, the GOP and its conservative base has used its opposition to gay marriage to drive Republican turnout in elections and marginalize party moderates. Measures defining marriage between a man and a woman that were on ballots in a slew of states in 2004 were widely credited with boosting the number of conservative voters, giving Republican George W. Bush an edge over Democrat John Kerry.

But there's been conflicting evidence since then over just how much that contributed to Bush's victory.

What's certain is that opposition to gay marriage for decades has been a potent tool for the GOP in rallying social conservatives. They are critical to the party's grass-roots organizing and small-dollar fundraising.

But as more states accept gay and lesbian unions, there is a debate inside the party over how it should position itself on the issue. The dispute is just one part of a broader struggle within the out-of-power GOP over its identity and whether it should focus on rallying conservatives or attracting supporters from across the political spectrum.

Some prominent Republicans are backing away from cut-and-dried opposition, and some party operatives say it's only a matter of time before others follow suit because the country is changing.

Republican Gov. Jon Huntsman of Utah, a Mormon who is a potential presidential candidate, backed a 2004 constitutional amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman. But he says he favors civil unions and extending some legal rights to gay couples.

Last month, John McCain's chief campaign strategist, Steve Schmidt, told the Log Cabin Republicans: "Even though a majority of Republicans remain opposed to it, we must respect dissent on the subject within the party and encourage debate over it, and should not reject out of hand and on specious grounds ... that the party might be in the wrong on the question."

The shifting landscape is emboldening the gay-rights' movement, a pillar of the Democratic Party's left flank.

"We are at a tipping point moment," said Joe Solmonese, president of the Human Rights Campaign, a leading advocate of gay rights. "The lingering minority that continues to think that the way to win is to hold GLBT (gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender) people up as a wedge could not be more out of touch."

___

On the Net:

Log Cabin Republicans: http://online.logcabin.org/

Human Rights Campaign: http://www.hrc.org/

Quinnipiac University Polling Institute: http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x271.xml

WASHINGTON — Gay marriage legalization in several states and the public's growing acceptance of same-sex unions have Democrats sensing political opportunity and some Republicans re-evaluating th...
WASHINGTON — Gay marriage legalization in several states and the public's growing acceptance of same-sex unions have Democrats sensing political opportunity and some Republicans re-evaluating th...
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- Dots I'm a Fan of Dots 9 fans permalink
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Don't Ask Don't Tell is UNAMERICAN, unconstitutional, hostile discrimination.
It needs to be changed by Executive Order asap.

Here's the other Solution:
Under the constitution everyone should have the legal right to get married with all the rights afforded.
The church itself can decide if it is willing to marry them also. Or not.
It's this simple. One or Two ceremonies.
All are "married."
Those with two ceremonies are "church married."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:36 PM on 05/12/2009
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Of Course Atheist support Gay Marriage
along with Socialistic Morons.
Why wouldnt they
But with Real and True Americans it just doesnt fly

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:49 PM on 05/04/2009
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Of Course, Conservati­veNuckleDr­aggers oppose Gay Marriage
along with Religionis­tReet@rds.
Why wouldnt they?
But for Rational and Educated Americans, it just isn't any of our Business.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:45 PM on 05/04/2009
- antaeus I'm a Fan of antaeus 81 fans permalink
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Wow! Has Iowa been taken over by "socialists"? Well, you could knock me over with a feather.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:06 PM on 05/04/2009

I don't even know that we can safely assert that there's a plurality in support for SSM with just the Democrats.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:37 PM on 05/04/2009
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Then don't. The world will move on w/o you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:46 PM on 05/04/2009
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once republicans learn that everybody has equal right under the law, their party might stand a chance again in modern America

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:40 AM on 05/04/2009
- The Ghost I'm a Fan of The Ghost 47 fans permalink
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NO SPECIAL STATUS FOR HETEROSEXUALS!

MARRIAGE FOR ALL OR MARRIAGE FOR NONE!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:44 AM on 05/04/2009
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NO Sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:20 PM on 05/04/2009
- PhilipB I'm a Fan of PhilipB 68 fans permalink

Hi,
I want to thank those of you who have written so eloquently in support of marriage equality.

in the prop 8 vote in CA people like me and my partner did not get to tell our story: why we wanted to be married.
With all the back and forth with a debate, what was missing was US.
The folks who live on the hill: our romance of 25 years, how we raised a daughter, and now have two fine grandsons.
Oh, we have had such a good life.
When Emi was little we had so much fun on the coast and exploring. When she was a teenager, those were sometimes challenging days, but I was a committed parent.
Lots of girls in hair-towels in sleepovers giggling and making cakes, Em and I at the computer doing homework, her wedding at our house.
Oh, and then we were empty nesters, and we continued to make a life for ourselves, as couples will do.
After all this, we simply want to be treated equally as our straight friend couples. We are good people, and American citizens and proud of it: We do not want to not pay our taxes in protest, nor do we want to end marriage for anybody: we just want to be married equally,so we can hold our head up in society and say, yes we count, our love is just as good, our relationship deserves recognition, and our family counts.
Thank you!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:43 AM on 05/04/2009
- PhilipB I'm a Fan of PhilipB 68 fans permalink

Oh, but this was just our story. Frankly, there are many couples who are gay without children who want to be married. it is about equality. I can only tell about my own story. But I think that what is missing here is peoples real stories: why they want to get married.
Civil unions are piss poor relations and you and everyone knows it.
So, if you think I will be satisfied with drinking from the segregated water fountain, then you have no sense of humanity, justice, or equality.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:30 AM on 05/04/2009
- Prakosh I'm a Fan of Prakosh 189 fans permalink
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I wonder if the boys in the Pizza Parlor decided to back gay marriage as step one in their attempt to learn something from Obama and the Democrats???

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:10 PM on 05/03/2009
- obviously I'm a Fan of obviously 3 fans permalink
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Since when did President Obama and the democrat politicians support gay marriage?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:44 PM on 05/03/2009
- JuliaRain I'm a Fan of JuliaRain 69 fans permalink

Did you not read the article?

Obviously you can't comprehend it if you're asking such a foolish question.

The nuance thing has got you baffled.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:09 PM on 05/03/2009
- BigAl72 I'm a Fan of BigAl72 118 fans permalink
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The Democrats are three steps ahead of the Repubs on this issue, regardless on who is supporting it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:09 PM on 05/03/2009
- antaeus I'm a Fan of antaeus 81 fans permalink
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He supported it in 1996 and said so. Why would he have rocked the boat last fall repeating it?

More importantly, do you think he'll nominate a USSC justice who is hostile to it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:52 PM on 05/03/2009
- Prakosh I'm a Fan of Prakosh 189 fans permalink
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I'm a Democrat and I support gay marriage.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:53 AM on 05/04/2009
- joemondo I'm a Fan of joemondo 22 fans permalink
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Those who pretend civil unions can be the legal equal of marriage are naive or deluded.

New Jersey sponsored a commission to look at civil unions, and it concluded that civil unions actually encourage inequality.

The commission's interim report in February found civil unions are "not clear to the general public" and confer "second-class status" on the couples who form them. The final report says civil union law "invites and encourages unequal treatment of same sex couples and their children."

"In a number of cases, the negative effect of the Civil Union Act on the physical and mental health of same-sex couples and their children is striking, largely because a number of employers and hospitals do not recognize the rights and benefits of marriage for civil union couples," the report said.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2008/12/goldstein.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:05 PM on 05/03/2009
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1st Amendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

14th Amendment:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Is homosexuality a disorder? Is it a flaw or a problem of any kind?

American Psychological Association: No
American Medical Association: No
American Society of Pediatrics: No

How long have we known this? Since 1956.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:33 PM on 05/03/2009
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Exactly.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:12 PM on 05/03/2009

Constitutional provisions must always be interpreted in light of the historical context in which they were adopted. If there is a desire to expand the meaning of a constitutional protection beyond its original intent, that should be done through the amendment process, not through a radical doctrine of evolving meanings. Historically, marriage has been confined to heterosexuals and there has been no legal recognition of other kinds of unions. Therefore, the 14th Amendment should not be construed to provide any protections for civil unions or an expansion of marriage to include homosexual relationships.

Of course, all states are free to make the bad decision to recognize new kinds of unions. But the people should be free to vote against legislators who support such wrongheaded innovation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:46 PM on 05/03/2009
- Sepulchre I'm a Fan of Sepulchre 102 fans permalink
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It was applied to segregation and to interacial marriage at one time. Are you saying that it is wrong to apply at it was indended which is to guarentee equality to all people in the US. What you are saying is it should provide equality to all people except gay people, correct?

I am afraid it is happening, and it going to continue. I suggest you find ways to cope.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:21 PM on 05/03/2009
- Sepulchre I'm a Fan of Sepulchre 102 fans permalink
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Here is a 411.

Anyone who can get enough signatures to put something on a ballot can, there is no filter for it. You could infact have it put on a ballot to revoke women's sufferage (right to vote). That does not mean that it will not be ruled unconstitutional. A state has the right to put anything it wants in the state constitution as long as it does not conflict or violate the federal constitution. This is also important. Courts have the right to determine that an amendment to the state constitution is in violation of the federal constitution and have it thrown out. That is done by the State Supreme courtand the Federal Supreme Court.

Next is to address states that passed the gay marriage ban. For people who seem to favor majority rule, let’s take a look at it. The majority in the Bible at the time crucified Christ. During WWII the majority of Germans supported Hitler. Being in a majority doesn’t make you right; it just means there are more of you. If majority rule had, had its way women would not be able to own land or property, and there would still be segregation. Court intervention circumvented popular vote because it was deemed a violation of our Constitution and its guarantee of fundamental rights. The Supreme Court ruled in the case of Loving vs. Virginia in 1967 that "Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man,".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:22 PM on 05/03/2009
- rextrek I'm a Fan of rextrek 32 fans permalink
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Gay people are on earth to counter balance the heteros from over-populating the planet..and to foster/adopt the unwanted kids heteros throw away.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:11 PM on 05/03/2009
- abbeyroad I'm a Fan of abbeyroad 30 fans permalink
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Sepulchre:

your post was excellent.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:12 PM on 05/03/2009
- Sepulchre I'm a Fan of Sepulchre 102 fans permalink
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Thank you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:17 PM on 05/03/2009
- PhilipB I'm a Fan of PhilipB 68 fans permalink

Yes, Sepulchre, I cannot even begin to thank you; for your eloquence, your common sense, for your empathy. Thank you. I have appreciated your posts, and your good voice, reason and fight.
Thanks so much for speaking truth for me and my family!!!!!
:)
Philip

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:29 PM on 05/03/2009
- GodIs I'm a Fan of GodIs 12 fans permalink
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That instinct, which God has embedded in humanity in order to protect marriage, has become the Devil's mightiest tool against God and against marriage, so he is using it. That which God has given us so that we can experience togetherness and faithfulness and happiness -- the Devil uses against God in order to deceive and distort.
Of course, in the animal kingdom there are males and females, and in the plant world there are also male and female plants; in neither animal nor plant life do abnormalities occur and every species stays with its own species.
Legalizing samesex partnerships between man and man, between woman and woman, will simply create disasters -- beyond comparison!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:00 PM on 05/03/2009
- antaeus I'm a Fan of antaeus 81 fans permalink
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"Legalizing samesex partnerships between man and man, between woman and woman, will simply create disasters . . . "

Why the future tense "will"? It's ALREADY been legalized, here and in Europe.

It's here. Why do you want to close the barn door after the horse is out?

Please, with respect and for your own sake, seek out your local community college and take an intro biology course. Same-sex activity occurs in the animal world all the time. It's been often observed and filmed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:11 PM on 05/03/2009
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UH-OH, gay animal Porn? Soon the Goopers will ban National Geographic!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:24 PM on 05/03/2009
- PhilipB I'm a Fan of PhilipB 68 fans permalink

Thank you, Antaeus!
I so appreciate you comments, for speaking truth to idiocy, and for speaking for us, real people, loving and committed who only want equality in the nation we love.
Thank you!!!!
:)
Warm regards,

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:32 PM on 05/03/2009
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You Must be Sarcastic. You would have to be. You choose to ignore the fact that their are hermaphrodites and A-Sexual reproduction in the animal kingdom. Not to mention that there is Homosexual relations in nature, ever seen a male dog hump another? It happens a lot with rouge male lions, they team up and they "Practice" on each other. Not to mention there are certain species of mammals that only sexually procreate with females of their species, while they have casual s e x with the males of their species....Learn science. If you were sarcastic, well done.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:15 PM on 05/03/2009
- caterpol I'm a Fan of caterpol 59 fans permalink

Good grief, you need to get out more and read more. Babies are born every day with sexual abnormalties which force parents to decide which naughty part to ignore. Not to mention the vast scientific evidence of homosexuality in the animal kingdom which you seem to be deliberately oblivious of.

But perhaps you were being sarcastic.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:24 PM on 05/03/2009
- bluguy8 I'm a Fan of bluguy8 19 fans permalink

wake up its been legalized and there are no diasters

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:38 PM on 05/03/2009

You are delusional. It's sad.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:08 PM on 05/03/2009
- GodIs I'm a Fan of GodIs 12 fans permalink
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I will prey for you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:13 PM on 05/03/2009
- hamchunk I'm a Fan of hamchunk 19 fans permalink

What I would like to know is this: Has there ever been a poll that has shown how many people that identify themselves as "Gay" are atheists/ agnostic? Because if it is a large percentage (as I suspect it would be), then the issue of marriage, because it is a religious ceremony, would be moot. If one does not believe in any religious right, than why push the marriage issue? And since civil unions are already accepted in many states, why is this right not enough to conclude a life partnership? Also, instead of bashing, I would like to see a rational rebuttal.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:57 PM on 05/03/2009
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My WIFE and I are Civilly married, I am a guy, The problem is that the Gay marriage issue is about Equality, if they are Religious, then why deny them the right to marry?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:17 PM on 05/03/2009
- joemondo I'm a Fan of joemondo 22 fans permalink
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Marriage is not a religious matter in the least as recognized by the state. A religious ceremony is optional for those who want it, but there is nothing religious in the state license.

Civil unions, furthermore, do not convey the full rights and responsibilities of marriage.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:26 PM on 05/03/2009
- caterpol I'm a Fan of caterpol 59 fans permalink

My husband and I are straight, agnostic, and agreed from the first date that we didn't want to breed. We got married in a civil ceremony 22 plus years ago.

And sorry Sport, but when the gov't got involved in issuing marriage licenses, all marriages were then, essentially, legal contracts/civil unions. The church of your choice can provide a lovely ceremony, but they can't LEGALLY marry you without the consent of the gov't.

Who knew, right?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:35 PM on 05/03/2009
- Disuberence I'm a Fan of Disuberence 130 fans permalink
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It's been said in this post, over and over, marriage is not solely a religious ceremony. You know that wedding license you pick up before you get married? You don't have to deity's blessing for it to become legal in the eyes of the government. Now, for the civil unions / marriage, here are just a few of the over 1,400 rights conferred to those in a heterosexual marriage. Keep in mind that even when DoMA is repealed, all of the civil unions granted to people will still not give these benefits.

1. Joint parental rights of children
2. Joint adoption
3. Status as "next-of-kin" for hospital visits and medical decisions
4. Right to make a decision about the disposal of loved ones remains
5. Immigration and residency for partners from other countries
6. Crime victims recovery benefits
7. Domestic violence protection orders
8. Judicial protections and immunity
9. Automatic inheritance in the absence of a will
10. Public safety officers death benefits
11. Spousal veterans benefits
12. Social Security
13. Medicare
14. Joint filing of tax returns
15. Wrongful death benefits for surviving partner and children
16. Bereavement or sick leave to care for partner or children
17. Child support
18. Joint Insurance Plans
19. Tax credits including: Child tax credit, Hope and lifetime learning credits
20. Deferred Compensation for pension and IRAs
21. Estate and gift tax benefits
22. Welfare and public assistance
23. Credit protection
26. Medical care for survivors and dependents of certain veterans

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:38 PM on 05/03/2009
- Disuberence I'm a Fan of Disuberence 130 fans permalink
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Sorry for the odd numbering, I had to cut some out for my post to fit.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:41 PM on 05/03/2009
- Sepulchre I'm a Fan of Sepulchre 102 fans permalink
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It stopped being a purely religious ceremony the second the government involved itself in the marriage business. Now it is a civil institution whether you like it or not.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:59 PM on 05/03/2009
- obviously I'm a Fan of obviously 3 fans permalink
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I am one of those Christian Conservatives which a lot of people on this blog seem to have no trouble bashing. I for one think that this is a cultural issue, the fact that it's a religious issue is secondary because we aren't supposed to create laws based solely on religion. As a cultural issue it takes time to change people's minds and a Country's people do have the right to stand on their culture until such time as the majority change their minds. That's why even though you should keep fighting for what you think is right if you want to change a cultural issue , you should stop attacking people who disagree with you it only makes the change come slower. I suspect you would at this time in history be better off if you stopped arguing the issue of using the word marriage, which has religious status attached to it, and concentrate on getting equality of law under civil Unions. To the secular society the word marriage really has no special meaning but to the majortity of people it does, so why not go after equality instead of acceptance.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:54 PM on 05/03/2009
- Sepulchre I'm a Fan of Sepulchre 102 fans permalink
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They attack those who support gay marriage. It is wrong to point out how and why they are wrong, and counter their arguments? Bias is bias religiously based or not. Marriage is just a word which has had some seriously different meanings throughout history.

Marriage was used as an exchange of property (women being one of those pieces of property), to solidify wealth, political unions, and land ownership. You are deluded if you think the driving force behind marriage had anything to do with spirituality.

Also historically gay marriage has existed. Today it exists in 7 countries, they haven't been destroyed in any Biblical manor, the sky did not fall, and there is no chaos over the matter there.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:02 PM on 05/03/2009
- obviously I'm a Fan of obviously 3 fans permalink
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I'm not talking historically anything-I'm simply saying you are fighting against a cultural mindset of this Country, right now, not in the past-and you are not going to get people to change their minds overnight-it always takes a long time to make cultural changes. So you can state all the historical info. you want and it's not going to change peoples minds immediately. In this country there is a religious and cultural attachment to the word Marriage. So why not fight for equal rights under the name Civil Unions-our politicians can give you equal rights with the use of a pen.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:10 PM on 05/03/2009
- JuliaRain I'm a Fan of JuliaRain 69 fans permalink

"To the secular society the word marriage really has no special meaning"

WRONG!

"you should stop attacking people who disagree with you"

Exactly. Cons should stop attacking...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:04 PM on 05/03/2009
- obviously I'm a Fan of obviously 3 fans permalink
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I don't believe anything in my post was an attack-but obviously you are just itching for a fight ,

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:11 PM on 05/03/2009
- antaeus I'm a Fan of antaeus 81 fans permalink
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If more moderate voices had come forward ten years ago, then maybe we'd now be looking at unions instead of marriage, as they now have by law in Great Britain (ironically, Catholic Spain has full same-sex marriage by law).

But wild-eyed reactionaries (they cannot properly be called "conservative," because same-sex marriage _is_ the conservative position) dug in their heels and wouldn't compromise.

But the reality is that the cultural practice of lovely church weddings for hetero couples, with ministers and receptions and flower girls, along with family blessings, won't be affected by this. Already Catholic churches can turn away non-Catholics who ask for weddings in those churches. So a gay couple married by the justice of the peace, or by a liberal church, won't do any cultural damage to the traditions you love.

Bottom line, though, is that it is already here.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:04 PM on 05/03/2009
- obviously I'm a Fan of obviously 3 fans permalink
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Actually, you have no idea what I believe, Christians aren't carbon copies of each other-I quite frankly am not sure how I personally feel about gay marriage-in a legal since I prefer Civil Unions that have all the legal rights that heterosexual marriages have-as far as on a religious basis-the Bible does seem to say that sexual relations with same sex couples is wrong but it also says -not an exact quote-faith, hope and love and the most important of these is Love.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:21 PM on 05/03/2009
- obviously I'm a Fan of obviously 3 fans permalink
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I do have a question-Why is your anger always aimed at conservatives when the democrat party doesn't support gay marriage either?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:43 PM on 05/03/2009

Obviously-- you do realize that out of the 30 states that ban gay marriage, 17 of those also ban civil unions and at least 2 of those (Virginia and Ohio) may also ban private contracts between gay couples that simulate the rights and protections of marriage or civil unions.

If this was all about protecting "traditional marriage" why do some states also ban civil unions and private contracts for gays?

The truth is that many conservatives and Fundamentalist Christians are against any rights and protections for gay couples. They are against marriage, civil unions, adoption/foster care, non-discrimination laws, hate crime laws, serving openly in the military, and anti-bullying programs in schools.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:50 PM on 05/03/2009
- obviously I'm a Fan of obviously 3 fans permalink
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My point-maybe you should fight for Civil Unions with equal rights instead of taking on the strongly held belief that marriage is between a man and a woman.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:24 PM on 05/03/2009
- joemondo I'm a Fan of joemondo 22 fans permalink
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Your advice is considered, and rejected.

When people against equal rights start giving advice on how to get it, I just have to laugh.

Your pals have fought civil unions and any other legal recognition for same sex couples. Don't think we're going to settle for your condolence prize now when the tide is turning.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:02 PM on 05/03/2009
- obviously I'm a Fan of obviously 3 fans permalink
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well, I guess I should be thankful that you could at least consider by advice in between your laughter.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:32 PM on 05/03/2009
- antaeus I'm a Fan of antaeus 81 fans permalink
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Frank Rich was right. This last fall was the knuckle-scrapers' last hurrah. The horse is out of the barn on this issue. It's now five years since Massachusetts legalized same-sex marriage, and there's no turning back. Ultimately the US Supreme Court is not going to allow a patchwork of marriage law in the _United_ States. Even Pat Buchanan recently said that this is coming.

Deal with it opponents. You've lost the battle.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:39 PM on 05/03/2009
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