Gonzales, Ashcroft Speak On Torture: "Not Here To Apologize"

The New York Times reported Monday that Bush administration officials were far more deeply divided over interrogation policy than had been previously known -- and that division led to the secret C.I.A. program being dismantled.

[E]ven as interrogation methods were scaled back, former officials now say, the battle inside the Bush administration over which ones should be permitted only grew hotter. There would be a tense phone call over the program's future during the 2005 Christmas holidays from Stephen J. Hadley, the national security adviser, to Porter J. Goss, the C.I.A. director; a White House showdown the next year between Ms. Rice and Vice President Dick Cheney; and Ms. Rice's refusal in 2007 to endorse the executive order with which Mr. Bush sought to revive the C.I.A. program.

Former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales makes an appearance in the White House discussions (his proposal: move C.I.A. detainees to Guantanamo Bay without admitting that they were held in secret prisons). But in a new interview alongside John Ashcroft, Gonzales showed little sign of regret.

Speaking to Dan Abrams (get the full interview on Abrams' Twitter account), Gonzales said he objected to President Obama's release of the now-infamous torture memos because those techniques "may be necessary in the future." Asked specifically if waterboarding was torture, he said:

"I think that the U.S. government provided advice to CIA interrogators based upon the best legal reasoning by the lawyers in the Department of Justice. Was it torture, when that advice was given? No. Were the interrogations harsh? Yes. Did they save lives? Absolutely."

John Ashcroft defended his successor, saying "the word waterboarding can be defined in a lot of ways." He added that "I don't think they got it wrong. It's different now ... Because the law has been changed." In fact, the law hasn't changed -- something Ashcroft acknowledged after the interview.

Meanwhile, on Sunday, a fourth-grader questioned Condoleezza Rice on waterboarding. She too claimed that nothing illegal was done.

"But [President Bush] was also very clear that we would do nothing, nothing, that was against the law or against our obligations internationally. So the president was only willing to authorize policies that were legal in order to protect the country."

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Comments

[dashboard]

Bush and Gonzo the Texas of Evil.

[JusticiaParaTodos]

For any of the Bush regime to claim that torture is legal is as ludicrous as expecting sewer water to be potable! Come on, since when does the word of crooks and liars mean anything?

With the crimes of the Bush regime we also have the complicity of Congressional Democrats who refused to consider the articles of impeachment. Now we have the White House unwilling to prosecute Bush and his gang of psychopaths! What the hell is wrong with us? Are we so complacent that we will allow government officials to do as they please and get away with it??

[mudshark12]

Some of Bush's cronies are guiltier than others, the bottom line is that they are ALL guilty and deserve prosecution.

[hangdogit]

The old rookie reporter's questions need to be asked about torture: what who, when, how, where and why -- simple questions really -- but ones that must be answered.

[gnomic]

I don't want an apology. I want a conviction.

[hangdogit]

True -- the apologies will come when these criminals stand before a sentencing judge.

[Chip W]

Convictions would be nice, but I want exposure. Open the whole thing up for everyone to see.

[Newthron]

This is the only way i could imagine them at work. Dumb, immoral, dark, and useless as dangerous.

[R2D2-51]

Ditto!

[Newthron]

The apprentices.
Ashcrrok: Olla gonz! what's plotting?
Gonzo: Covering some mess. We caught the wrong man.
Ashcrook: U gonna release him?
Gonzo: No it's too late. if we let him out, is gonna reveal our techniques.
Ashcrook: Hmm . . .he could fall and bit his tongue off?
Gonzo: He is deaf and mute!
Ashcrook: NO! Hmm . . .the faker!
Gonzo: I know. I thought about teaching him sign language.
Ashcrook: Yeah! Godd thinking!
Gonzo: I know but they broke all his fingers.
Ashcrook: FoK! The faker! So?! How do you teach him to sign?
Gonzo: I'm thinking about his toes.
Ashcrook: Christ! I would have never thought of
Gonzo interrupt him.
Gonzo: it is still complicated. The day they found him he was injured, he had walked on a mine.
Ashcrook: Fok fok fok him! So what you gonna do?
Gonzo: We are teaching him to use the last toe he got left.
Ashcrook: The mother faker. But, but how?
Gonzo: We changed the technique. We are teaching him to use his toe as a pencil. He dip it into black ink.
Ashcrook: Hoooo! Gonzo! Wooaaa!

[instagladiator]

How is GG's name did you ever get a copy of their tot-ture manual?

[valleygent]

These men in the Bush Administration were evil. Period.

[instagladiator]

No, they were just hard-working thieves, overloaded with corruption and multiple foul deeds. You know, sort of like THAT party, only these ones "turned bad".

[RationalityPlease]

Sociopaths are incapable of regret---other than when their anti-social behavior actually results in negative consequences for them. We must prosecute these people.

[MountPanic]

Please, DON'T apologize.

We'd like to see you get the harshest sentencing possible. Why compromise that?

[R2D2-51]

And here is another one for ya!

The next time some DEA agent decides to bust some pot grower in northern California where I live, suppose he take a poll first to decide which way the wind is blowing, then, based on that Poll the DEA will determine whether that harvest goes up in one big column of smoke and the grower goes to the Federal Penitentiary, or many small ones.

[JessWonderin]

THESE were the BEST LEGAL MINDS we had????

Guess a note from Decider Guy was a free pass to ignore all ethics and legal precedent . . . .

[ReedYoung]

They just have to be crafty enough to fool over half the people, most of the time. It's gonna be a photo-finish, but I think they've been too stupid for even the American people to be fooled much longer. Still, 62% opposed does not make me proud to be an American.
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE53R4PC20090428

[R2D2-51]

I never ever trust a poll where I have not seen the methodology of collecting their data, and the formulas used to determine the results. You can't tell me that in the passing of only one generation, we have flipped our long held American values 180 degrees from where the prior generation had laid in stone, “The Nuremberg Doctrine” which laid down for future generations conduct that we as a human civilization cannot tolerate, set forth from War Crimes committed by NAZI Germany during WW II, much of which was cast with our own pen (Justice Robert Jackson) that never again would humanity allow another nations leaders to engage in aggressive war and engage in horrific unspeakable conduct against our fellow human beings.

This was the generation, my Father and Mother’s generation who were the ones who held such a hard line on maintaining human dignity when it came to treatment of prisoners.

In other words, the American mind-set instead of becoming more civilized over time has digressed back to more barbaric times in the treatment of their fellow man. But then again, human nature being what it is, and always has been for 12,000+ years is not long enough on the evolutionary scale to change our DNA from a mammal then something better than what "The Day the Earth Stood Still” depicts of the Human Race".

[CFAmick]

No one expects them to "do" anything, least of all apologize. It's up to current law enforcement officials to arrest them, based on compelling evidence, that they violated the law.