Obama Takes Toughest Stance With Israel In A Generation

Beginning in the weeks leading up to President Obama's meetings with Middle Eastern leaders, the administration laid the groundwork for its strong position against Israeli settlements, marking a break from the soft-gloved approach of years past. And this week, tensions have increased between Obama and the new Israeli government under Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, following their meeting last week when Obama said, "there is a clear understanding that we have to make progress on settlements; that settlements have to be stopped in order for us to move forward," the AP reports.

Netanyahu's frustration with the Obama administration's demands was made apparent Wednesday when, according to Foreign Policy, he vented to a confidante the question: "What the hell do they want from me?"

According to the Woodrow Wilson Center's Aaron David Miller, speaking to McClatchy, Obama's intransigence and direct rhetoric on the contentious settlements issue is risky policy. From McClatchy:

"What we're seeing from the Obama administration is an uncharacteristically tough policy on settlements without a corresponding detailed strategy to justify it. It looks like a significant fight with the Israelis,"

"They've essentially issued an ultimatum to Israel . It's a game of chicken, an Obama-Netanyahu game of chicken."

The Washington Post's Jackson Diehl, in his Friday column, discusses the intractability of the Israeli-Arab peace process as a "waiting game" where both sides refuse to budge until the other makes the first concessionary move. As Diehl points out, Obama's unprecedentedly tough approach to Israel -- which Miller describes as risky and incomplete -- is an attempt to break this impasse. From Diehl:

Obama, in contrast, has repeatedly and publicly stressed the need for a West Bank settlement freeze, with no exceptions. In so doing he has shifted the focus to Israel. He has revived a long-dormant Palestinian fantasy: that the United States will simply force Israel to make critical concessions, whether or not its democratic government agrees, while Arabs passively watch and applaud. "The Americans are the leaders of the world," Abbas told me and Post Editorial Page Editor Fred Hiatt. "They can use their weight with anyone around the world. Two years ago they used their weight on us. Now they should tell the Israelis, 'You have to comply with the conditions.'"

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Comments

[samerbayer]

10:23 PM on 05/31/2009

It seems that there are lots of people in both sides who are hoping for complete victory by eliminating the other side. The moderates on both sides can't agree on anything because it takes 1 crazy person to stop the piece process and the extremist in both sides are ready to supply that crazy person.

[MemoryAlpha]

01:32 PM on 06/01/2009

Important Distinction:
Radicalism, violence and division is being deliberately fostered among the Palestinians by foreign powers with an imperialist agenda.

Reference:
The Gaza Bombshell
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/04/gaza200804

[BubbaC33]

07:28 PM on 06/02/2009

One story does not make your accusation true.
Even if the Vanity Fair article is correct that in no way implicates Israel.

[bbrecht]

07:31 PM on 05/31/2009

"What the hell do they want from me?"

Stop violating people's rights with our tax dollars.

[greysilk]

04:47 PM on 05/31/2009

The most lasting security comes from making friends with ones neighbours, and that means give and take, compromise, and admitting ones faults and apologizing. These are skills Israel needs to learn.

[MarkOfBrooklyn]

01:40 PM on 05/31/2009

Obama has to lean on the Israelis if he is to get the Arabs to Lean on the Palestinians. For too long the Arab league countries have stood on the fence leaving the heavy lifting to the US. They need to be a party to any agreement and put some skin in the game and stop influencing from the sidelines.
The US has leverage with Israel but not the PA, and the Arab league has leverage with the PA but not Israel. Therefore Obama must coordinate with the Arab league to make peace between these two people.

[norkas]

04:43 PM on 05/31/2009

Any deal that looks like i is easy will never work NO matter what and that is a FACT.

Barak Obama is doing this correctly and anyone with any knoledge of the middleeast knows that.

I am a suppoter of Israel bit they must stop with the settlements and even Isreal citizens know that and i am speaking of the big majority.

Tough talks and NOT a gentle hand will be the only way to get to peace and both sides know that.

The Hamas has to make a decision if they want Israel to exist or not. After there is a postive response all hell will break out shouting screaming, cursing in these peace talks.

The only problem will be with Jerusalem because it belong to ALL world religions and the ONLY honest gate keeper is Israel. The Palestinians have close their side many times not allowing other religions to visit very importent holy sites where they would pray. The Palestinians have closed their side down many times often without any reason in fact almost everytime without reason.

I am ot religious but undersatnd that the only gate keepr that will keeps its gates open for ALL religions without the threat of closing for extortion of money and other excuses is Israel.

Israel truly is the only gate keeper for a holy city that belongs to the world

[MemoryAlpha]

10:21 PM on 06/01/2009

Statement:
the ONLY honest gate keeper is Israel.

Contrary Evidence:
Most of the "security" wall is built on Palestinian land.
Muslims are routinely denied passage to the Dome of the Rock, especially during Ramadan.

[jwcmass]

10:36 PM on 05/31/2009

I've read that Obama is working with Jordan's King Abdullah on the Arab- Palestinian side of this. And while this article makes it sound like he's not asking for anything from the Palestinians, that article (it is somewhere here on huffingtonpost) indicated that they have a comprehensive plan in mind, and from the Palestinian side, the compromise would be right of return (presumably with just compensation)

SO if you put these two together, Obama's plan is essentially, tht Israel would give up the settlements of the West Bank and East Jerusalem (leave the Old City aside--I'm talking about land from the West Bank annexed to the city--and in return the Palestinians would cede the right of retrun of the 1948 refugees to Israel. (Presumably they would live in the West Bank--and East J'lem--the New Palestine.

I can't claim any knowledge on Jerusalem, (the Old City) but I would propose joint sovereignty--it would be a good way for the two states to learn to work with each other. Religious sites would, as now, be overseen by the various religious authorities, and there would be freedom of access.

I've been saying all along that both sides will have to compromise if there is to be peace--it's lookinig like that's the Administration's view.

I would also hold out the same carrot to Hamas that was held out to the IRA-- if you disarm, your party can be legitimized.

Difficult? Yes. Impossible--No-- It happened in Northern Ireland.

[LincolnParkChicago]

12:46 PM on 05/31/2009

The settler’s chant “Arab free from river to sea” is their ultimate goal. Do not be fooled. President Obama must be firm. The israelis must withdraw to the pre 1967 borders no matter how unfair it may seem. And they must make reparations for the damage and destruction they caused.

These settlements were a conscious, systematic, willful effort to make the land grab difficult to undo. Ariel Sharon called for settlers to "create facts on the ground" meaning move in and build so it would be very, very difficult and very unpleasant to remove them. Now they are there. And it does “seem unfair” to remove them. Some of the units in the OT are selling for $175000. How can we possibly ask these individual israelis to walk away from their investments?

But remember, this was a deliberate, calculated tactic. It was planned and the plan was publicized. Now the Palestinian areas are so fragmented that it is not tenable.

These “facts on the ground” must be reversed. All settlers and IDF must move back to the pre 1967 borders. And, since they have destroyed all Palestinian homes and infrastructure even olive groves, they should leave all present homes and infrastructure intact for the Palestinians as compensation for their actions. This is a minimum. THIS would be fair! Those Israelis, who built or bought in the Occupied Territories, knew or should have known what they were doing.

[BubbaC33]

01:54 PM on 05/31/2009

There was no peace prior to the 1967 war, the idea that a return to the prre-67 war borders will bring about peace is just nonsense.

[LincolnParkChicago]

12:54 PM on 06/01/2009

It will bring some measure of justice to the Palestinians.

Peace will only come if an international force of peacekeepers is placed on the border with their weapons aimed at the israeli side.

[MemoryAlpha]

01:26 PM on 06/01/2009

Important note:
There has been no peace in the region since Israel declared independence and violated UN 181 in 1947,

[LincolnParkChicago]

11:03 AM on 05/31/2009

The ultimate goal is “Arab free from river to sea”

A building freeze is not enough. These settlements were a conscious effort to make the land grab difficult to undo. Ariel Sharon called for settlers to "create facts on the ground" meaning move in and build so it would be very, very difficult and very unpleasant to remove you. Now they are there. This was a deliberate, calculated, willful tactic. It was planned. Now the Palestinian areas are so fragmented that they are not tenable.

Well, these facts on the ground must be reversed. All settlers and IDF must move back to the pre 1967 borders. And, since they have destroyed all Palestinian homes and infrastructure, they should leave all present homes and infrastructure intact for the Palestinians as compensation for their actions. This is a minimum.

If Obama allows the israelis to keep the Occupied Territories that they have seized, he will be appeasing the zionists just as Chamberlain appeased the Nazis when he let them keep the land in Czechoslovakia that they seized. And, just as the Nazis reneged on the agreement, if the Israelis keep the settlements, in a year or two they will find a “reason” for still more expansion and seizures. “Arab free from river to sea” is their ultimate goal.

Obama must be firm. The israelis must withdraw. And they must pay reparations for the damage and destruction they caused.

[SnapShots]

04:45 AM on 05/31/2009

This is not a 'new' Israeli government. The same people have been cycling through a revolving door for decades. The Muslim world does not hate Jews, but they do hate Zionists. One of the largest synagogues I've ever seen sits in downtown Cairo, doors wide open, no guards, no problems, which is a strong indication that religion is not the basis of the problems between Israel and the rest of the Arab world. The problems are the Israeli government, their callous attitude, their persecution of Palestinians, and their refusal to grant access to Jerusalem and Al Aqsa mosque to the masses.

Americans have been intimidated into walking on eggshells when discussing or criticizing the Israeli government and trained to look the other way at the abuse of power that has led to so much suffering among Palestinians. That's not to excuse the murderous behavior of certain Palestinians, but living without hope and having nothing to lose makes people easily justify murderous behavior.

It's time for both sides to grow up and for Israel to swallow some pride.

[whoa20]

12:49 AM on 05/31/2009

when is "Palestine" gonna quit the whole jihad bit? When they do, and they accept the Jewish State, then there will be peace. Until then, Israel has every right to build in Judea and Samaria.

[SnapShots]

05:17 AM on 05/31/2009

Says who?

[MemoryAlpha]

10:39 AM on 05/31/2009

Statement:
Until then, Israel has every right to build in Judea and Samaria.

Relevant Quote:
When we have won the war, who will question our methods?

Comparison of Israel to the state from which it is copying strategies:
Frightening.

[BubbaC33]

01:58 PM on 05/31/2009

Yet another posting from you with nothing of substance or value. Israel has every legal and moral right to hold the West Bank. If the West Bank is given back it would be given to Jordan, not the Palestinians. Israel took the West Bank from Jordan in 1967.

[BubbaC33]

07:14 PM on 05/31/2009

You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

[mark67nyc]

08:17 PM on 05/30/2009

Hurray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Change HAS come to America. No more senseless kowtowing to a disproportionately powerful minoroty comprising 1.7% of the US population.

Bibi asks "What the hell do they want from me?"????????????????? Stop expecting preferential treatment and double standards. Enough is enough.

Obama rocks!!

[Mildmannered]

07:49 PM on 05/30/2009

see the LA Times editorial
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-ed-settlements30-2009may30,0,1535140.story

"The communities in the West Bank are an obstacle to peace. The U.S. should push a building freeze."

[Martampa]

06:52 PM on 05/30/2009

Glad to hear that Obama is going to hold the Israelis feet to the fire. I am sick and tired of supplying them with weapons and foreign aid. There will never be peace in the Middle East until somebody stands up to Israel.

[MagicalPossibilities]

05:39 PM on 05/30/2009

It's about dang time! Stop coddling Israel and sanction them if they can't play nice with their neighbors. Sounds fair to me.

[BubbaC33]

07:20 AM on 05/31/2009

Israel cannot play nice, as you put it, since Hamas and Hezbollah are each committed to ur destruction. Each is controled by Iran, which is one of the reasons we are increasingly concerned with Iran. Trusting Syria is a dangerous proposition, just ask the residents of Hama if the government can be trusted.
The point is you place all of the blame on Israel, which is nonsense. You demand that Israel has to "play nice" with neighbors clearly dedicated to our destruction. You owe it to yourself to do some reading on this subject since you seemingly are in need of more info.

[MemoryAlpha]

10:40 AM on 05/31/2009

Vast Conspiracy Theory of Muslim Terrorists controlled by Ahmedinejad:
Laughable.

Recycling the rhetoric, but changing the "secret leader:"
Not effective.

See also:
Saddam Hussein
Osama bin Laden

[jwcmass]

11:15 PM on 05/31/2009

Well Bubba, the peace agreements with your most dangerous historical foe (Egypt) has held for 31 years.

And though you are trying your level best to undermine it, Jordan is still at peace (and they've been somewhat at peace even longer than that. Way back in 1973, King Hussein warned your PM Golda Meir that Egypt and Syria were about to attack -- something that, if made public at the time, almost certainly would have cost him his life.)

If you are honest you have to acknowledge that Hezbollah was only created in response to Israel's invasion of Lebanon (which, unsurprisingly, given his track record, then Defence Minister Ariel Sharon greatly went beyond where he was authorized to go --but following orders was never Arik's strong point.

And as I mentioned in the other forum, ISRAEL helped in the creation of Hamas --because they wanted to undermine Arafat and the PLO. Blowback is the term here.

So if we are going ot tell the story, let's tell the whole story. I know we are somewhat responsible for Iran-- if we had left them alone in 1953, I think the entire Middle East would be different today. (Harry Truman was wise enough to say no to the harebrained ploy).

But the people most dedicated to Israel's destruction is the Settlers--though they seem blind to it. They will, if given theri head, choose the one sate solution.

And the Palestinians are beginning to figure this out.

[Intelligentia]

05:09 PM on 05/30/2009

Before we start blaming Israelis and Palestinians, we have to go back to the origin of it all: Germany. If the Holocaust had not happened, there would not have been a state of Israel. Jews needed a safe haven. European White Anglo-Saxon protestants wanted to get rid of White Jew, because of anti-Judaism; so, they (Anglo-Saxon) went out to find that safe haven for Jews. They initially chose to establish the state of Israeil in Uganda, but later, the present site was chosen. Jews have every right to want to have a place where they should feel safe; however, they should understand that in finding that safe haven for Jews, Palestinians were displaced. The Palestinians were not responsible for brutalization of Jews, the Europeans were. These are facts, not propaganda. So, the Israelis should take this opportunity that Obama is offering to find the best solution. There is no way Obama (or anyone of us) will stand by and let anyone to destroy the state of Israel. The Israelis know this. So, let's stop this politics and get on with peace.

[SnapShots]

05:07 AM on 05/31/2009

I'm afraid your explanation is too simplistic. It didn't start with Germany. Jews have been persecuted for 2,000 years, but the Holocaust shocked the world, gaining more attention than any other atrocity. Jews should feel safe anywhere in the world, but running a strictly Zionist state that is akin to apartheid and racism is not a good way to get along with one's neighbors, promote cultural understanding and tolerance, and pave the way for long-term peace in the region.

[jwcmass]

11:21 PM on 05/31/2009

The history is simplified, but what do you want in 250 words. The only thing I would add was that the German Holocaust was the culmination of 2000 years of European (largely there because that's where the Christians were) persecution--at first religion-based, and later racial.

But it would require pages of posts to tell the whole story.

[MaxCohen]

04:41 PM on 05/30/2009

If only the world put as much pressure on the Palestinians to form an acceptable government as they do the Israeli government then both parties might have the clout and power amongst there respective people to implement a lasting solution. Talking about settlement expansion as if it were the greatest hurtle this process faces and turning a blind eye to the Palestinians internal divisions of which there are considerable is just complete liberal media bias.

[MemoryAlpha]

02:21 AM on 05/31/2009

Distortion:
If only the world put as much pressure on the Palestinians to form an acceptable government...

Correction:
Vanity Fair has obtained confidential documents, since corroborated by sources in the U.S. and Palestine, which lay bare a covert initiative, approved by Bush and implemented by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Deputy National Security Adviser Elliott Abrams, to provoke a Palestinian civil war. The plan was for forces led by Dahlan, and armed with new weapons supplied at America’s behest, to give Fatah the muscle it needed to remove the democratically elected Hamas-led government from power.

But the secret plan backfired, resulting in a further setback for American foreign policy under Bush. Instead of driving its enemies out of power, the U.S.-backed Fatah fighters inadvertently provoked Hamas to seize total control of Gaza.
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/04/gaza200804

Logical Conclusion:
Attempts by the Palestinians to form a stable unity government have been actively, deliberately thwarted.

[BubbaC33]

02:05 PM on 05/31/2009

Again you show a great flair for cutting and pasting, but nothing more.

[Donatella]

02:08 AM on 06/01/2009

That is exactly right. Also, Israel supported the creation and growth of Hamas as a counter to Fatah. Unfortunately, for them Hamas turned out to be more true to the Palestinian cause while Fata turned out to be a compromised organization that is totally corrupt.

If you are looking for blame for the chaos with the Palestinians place it squarely on the Israeli doorstep.

[Mildmannered]

03:59 PM on 05/30/2009

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-ed-settlements30-2009may30,0,1535140.story

"The communities in the West Bank are an obstacle to peace. The U.S. should push a building freeze."
May 30, 2009

[LincolnParkChicago]

08:00 PM on 05/30/2009

A building freeze is not enough.

These settlements were a conscious effort to make the land grab difficult to undo. Ariel Sharon called for settlers to "create facts on the ground" meaning move in and build so it would be very, very difficult and very unpleasant to remove you. Now they are there. This was a deliberate, calculated, willful tactic. It was planned. Now the Palestinian areas are so fragmented that they are not tenable.

Well, these facts on the ground must be reversed. All settlers and IDF must move back to the pre 1967 borders. And, since they have destroyed all Palestinian homes amd infrastructure, they should leave all present homes and infrastructure intact for the Palestinians as compensation for their actions. This is a minimum.

[BubbaC33]

02:09 PM on 05/31/2009

Why should Israel give up land taken in the course of a defensive war? International law provides the method for Israel to legally and ethically hold the West Bank and Gaza. There is no compelling reason for Israel to give up either.

[jwcmass]

11:29 PM on 05/31/2009

One step at a time. This is NOT going to be solved in a day. But one can see more going on behind the scenes than is leaking out.

Truth be told, it might be better that way. Negotiating in public usually doesn't work, because instead of talking to the other side, the person is usually posturing for their own base.

(For all we know, Bibi could be agreeing to this, but publically grousing so that his base will be satisfied--I'm not saying that's happening, but in this region you never can tell.

And I'm sure , if that IS the case, Obama would say, "Hey, I don't mind being the bad cop here--go ahead and blame me-- just get it done" It's what I would do, and it would be astute politically. IF that's what's happenning. I notice we have heard little from George Mitchell.