Vast search of Atlantic Ocean for Air France jet

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BRADLEY BROOKS and GREG KELLER | June 1, 2009 11:28 PM EST | AP

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A man, looking for information on the Airfrance flight 447 that was reported missing on its way between Rio de Janeiro and Paris, is escorted by airport employees to a private room at Tom Jobim airport in Rio de Janeiro, Monday, June 01, 2009. The jet carrying 228 people, lost contact with air traffic controllers after running into lightning and strong thunderstorms over the Atlantic Ocean, officials said Monday. Brazil began a search mission off its northeastern coast. (AP Photo/ Ricardo Moraes) ¶

RIO DE JANEIRO — An Air France jet with 228 people on a flight to Paris vanished over the Atlantic Ocean after flying into towering thunderstorms and sending an automated message that the electrical system had failed. A vast search began Monday, but all aboard were feared killed.

Military aircraft scrambled out to the center of the Atlantic, far from the coasts of Brazil and West Africa, and France sought U.S. satellite help to find the wreckage. The first military ship wasn't expected to reach the area where the plane disappeared until Wednesday.

If there are no survivors, it would be the world's worst aviation disaster since 2001.

Pilots flying a commercial jet from Paris to Rio de Janeiro for Brazil's largest airline, TAM, spotted what they thought was fire in the ocean along the Air France jet's route early Monday, the airline said in a statement e-mailed to The Associated Press.

Brazilian Air Force spokesman Col. Jorge Amaral said authorities were investigating the report, according to the Agencia Brasil official news service.

"There is information that the pilot of a TAM aircraft saw several orange points on the ocean while flying over the region ... where the Air France plane disappeared," Amaral said.

"After arriving in Brazil, the pilot found out about the disappearance (of the Air France plane) and said that he thought those points on the ocean were fire."

French President Nicolas Sarkozy said the cause remains unclear and that "no hypothesis" is being excluded. Some experts dismissed speculation that lightning might have brought the plane down. But violent thunderheads reaching more than 50,000 feet (15,240 meters) high can pound planes with hail and high winds, causing structural damage if pilots can't maneuver around them.

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Sarkozy said he told family members of passengers on Air France Flight 447 that prospects of finding survivors are "very small."

Brazil's president, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, expressed hope that "the worst hasn't happened," and said "we have to ask God" to help find survivors.

The 4-year-old Airbus A330 left Rio Sunday night with 216 passengers and 12 crew members on board, said company spokeswoman Brigitte Barrand. Most of the passengers were Brazilian and French, but 32 nations in all were represented, including two Americans.

The plane was cruising normally at 35,000 feet (10,670 meters) and 522 mph (840 kph) just before it disappeared nearly four hours into the flight. No trouble was reported as the plane left radar contact, beyond Brazil's Fernando de Noronha archipelago, at 10:48 local time.

But just north of the equator, a line of towering thunderstorms loomed. Bands of extremely turbulent weather stretched across the Atlantic toward Africa, as they often do in the area this time of year.

The plane "crossed through a thunderous zone with strong turbulence," Air France said. About 14 minutes later, at 11:14 p.m. local time, 0214 GMT (10:14 p.m. EDT Sunday), an automatic message was sent reporting electrical system failure and a loss of cabin pressure. Air France said the message was the last it heard from Flight 447.

While what happened to the plane has not been determined, a Pentagon official said he'd seen no indication of terrorism or foul play. The official spoke on condition of anonymity due to the sensitive nature of the subject.

Chief Air France spokesman Francois Brousse said a lightning strike could have damaged the plane. Henry Margusity, a senior meteorologist for AccuWeather.com, noted that the thunderstorms towered up to 50,000 feet in the area, so it was possible that the plane flew directly into the most charged part of the storm.

Other experts doubted a bolt of lightning would be enough to bring the jet down. Some pointed to turbulence as a more dangerous factor.

"Lightning issues have been considered since the beginning of aviation. They were far more prevalent when aircraft operated at low altitudes. They are less common now since it's easier to avoid thunderstorms," said Bill Voss, president and CEO of Flight Safety Foundation, Alexandria, Va.

Voss said planes are built to dissipate electricity along the aircraft's skin, and are tested for resistance to big electromagnetic shocks.

The plane disappeared in an area of the mid-Atlantic ocean not covered by radar. Brazilian, African, Spanish and French air traffic controllers tried in vain to establish contact. The plane was gone.

Within two hours, two Brazilian Air Force planes began a search mission that grew Monday to seven aircraft and three navy ships. But with nothing more to go on than the last point where Flight 447 made contact _ about 745 miles (1,200 kilometers) northeast of the coastal city of Natal _ they faced an immense area of open ocean, with depths as much as 15,000 feet.

A French search plane took off from a military base in Senegal on Monday, to be joined by two more from France, and the Navy was asked to send a craft to help as well, armed forces spokesman Cmdr. Christophe Prazuck said.

Asking for U.S. satellite help, Sarkozy said finding the plane "will be very difficult."

"(I met with) a mother who lost her son, a fiancee who lost her future husband. I told them the truth," he said at a grim news conference in Paris.

The 216 passengers included 126 men, 82 women, 7 children and a baby, Air France said. There were 61 French and 58 Brazilians; 30 other countries were represented, including two Americans.

In Brazil, sobbing relatives were flown to Rio de Janeiro, where Air France was assisting the families.

At the Charles de Gaulle airport north of Paris, family members declined to speak to reporters and were brought to a cordoned-off crisis center.

Some people just missed disaster. Bernardo Ciriaco said there were two Air France flights leaving Rio for Paris Sunday night _ and his brother was on one of them. It was not until hours later that his brother, Gustavo, called from Paris to say that he had been bumped to the missing flight, but then talked his way onto the other one.

"Thank God he complained until he got back on the original flight. Our family is so relieved," Ciriaco said.

Air France said it expressed "its sincere condolences to the families and loved ones of the passengers and crew members" aboard Flight 447.

Air France-KLM CEO Pierre-Henri Gourgeon said the pilot had 11,000 hours of flying experience, including 1,700 hours flying this aircraft.

Experts said the absence of a mayday call meant something happened very quickly.

"The conclusion to be drawn is that something catastrophic happened on board that has caused this airplane to ditch in a controlled or an uncontrolled fashion," Jane's Aviation analyst Chris Yates told The Associated Press. "Potentially it went down very quickly and so quickly that the pilot on board didn't have a chance to make that emergency call."

If all 228 people were killed, it would be the deadliest commercial airline disaster since Nov. 12, 2001, when an American Airlines jetliner crashed in the New York City borough of Queens during a flight to the Dominican Republic, killing 265 people.

Airbus spokeswoman Maggie Bergsma said it was the first fatal accident of a A330-200 since a test flight in 1994 went wrong, killing seven people in Toulouse.

The Airbus A330-200 is a twin-engine, long-haul, medium-capacity passenger jet that can hold up to 253 passengers. There are 341 in use worldwide, flying up to 7,760 miles (12,500 kilometers) a trip.

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Keller reported from Charles de Gaulle airport in Roissy, France. Associated Press reporters Emma Vandore, Laurent Lemel and Laurent Pirot in Paris; Alan Clendenning and Tales Azzoni in Sao Paulo and Marco Sibaja in Brasilia; Slobodan Lekic in Brussels, Belgium; Barry Hatton in Lisbon and Airlines and Transportation Editor Greg Stec in New York also contributed to this report.

RIO DE JANEIRO — An Air France jet with 228 people on a flight to Paris vanished over the Atlantic Ocean after flying into towering thunderstorms and sending an automated message that the electr...
RIO DE JANEIRO — An Air France jet with 228 people on a flight to Paris vanished over the Atlantic Ocean after flying into towering thunderstorms and sending an automated message that the electr...
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- Vinca I'm a Fan of Vinca 6 fans permalink

It's a nightmare for the families. It seems it was an explosion, of some kind that brought the plane down. They had received a phone call about another plane recently. They not received any threats concerning this plane.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:58 AM on 06/03/2009
- JohnnyKong I'm a Fan of JohnnyKong 5 fans permalink
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Let's not jump to conspiratorial conclusions just yet...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:33 AM on 06/04/2009
- FZliveson I'm a Fan of FZliveson 78 fans permalink
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In the article it says: "Potentially it went down very quickly and so quickly that the pilot on board didn't have a chance to make that emergency call."

The Air France plane was at 35,000 feet altitude (6.6 statute miles above the surface)

Sept 25, 1978 a Pacific Southwest Airlines Boeing 727 collided with a Cessna 172 at 2350 feet altitude.
In the 20 seconds from collision to ground impact, the pilot had the wherewithall and time to Radio the tower: PSA: :"Tower- we're going down--This is PSA (12 seconds to impact)
TOWER:: Ok-We'll call the equipment for you! (10 seconds to impact)
PSA: This is it, baby! (6 seconds to impact)

It simply makes no sense that a plane would lose all electricity because of some weather disturbance and the premise that the captain had no time to make a radio call is without basis.
It took 20 seconds to go from 2350' to 0-feet At that rate, from 35,000 feet it would take 4-minutes and 58 seconds to impact the water. (35000/2350=14.89 times the altitude. 14.89* 20 seconds= 297.8 Seconds /60= 4.963 Minutes)
I'm not buying the "no time to radio" explanation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:36 PM on 06/02/2009

And this is based on your massive amounts of experience in aviation? Your qualifications are what exactly?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 PM on 06/02/2009
- FZliveson I'm a Fan of FZliveson 78 fans permalink
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Howie: U.S. Navy flight training. Years of independent study of airline disasters, Hundreds of hours as a passenger on trans-oceanic travel.
The facts above are not mine but from the investigators of the flight in question.
(Macarthur Job: Airline Disaster, Volume 2, Pp: 23-35; published in Australia ISBN 1 875671 19 6) Besides, Mr. Screamer, it is only elementary mathematics. Why are you being so truculent? Do you think that Klingons had something to do with it? Let us in on YOUR TRUTH, son.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:59 PM on 06/02/2009

Back in the day when I practically lived on planes, I suffered through so many t-storms that my knuckles are still white. It's sad when they turn deadly. My heart and prayers go out to those souls on board and the families and friends who are left behind.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:28 AM on 06/02/2009
- piul05 I'm a Fan of piul05 52 fans permalink
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According to O Globo, FAB (Brazilian Air Force) has found seats and metallic parts some 400 miles away from the archipelago of Fernando de Noronha.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:48 AM on 06/02/2009
- McFlipFlop I'm a Fan of McFlipFlop 14 fans permalink
    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:07 AM on 06/02/2009
- ajmediator I'm a Fan of ajmediator 2 fans permalink

Many years ago a PSA B-146 was brought down on a trip from LAX-SFO by a disgruntled airline employee who shot the pilots. This plane impacted the ground at such a velocity that no pieces larger than the palm of a hand were found so, "if" the Air France A330 hit hard enough the ELT, Black boxes etc could be disintegrated thus providing no locator guidance for searchers.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:13 AM on 06/02/2009
- JohnnyKong I'm a Fan of JohnnyKong 5 fans permalink
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Umm no...modern black boxes are made to survive a disaster.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:39 AM on 06/04/2009
- ajmediator I'm a Fan of ajmediator 2 fans permalink

Several years ago airbus experienced a crash (non-fatal) in which the aircraft decided it was landing despite the opposite input from the pilot. The plane settled into a forest after a demonstration pass over an airfield. There have also been reports that in the early years an airbus entered a holding pattern and despite all action to exit the holding pattern by the pilots the aircraft knew better and remained. Eventually all electrical input had to be terminated momentarily. This aircraft is an electronically controlled machine dependent on computer inputs to stay aloft. Don't know whether there is cable to control surface backup in case of total loss of electricity. If not, I would assume that engineers calculated the redundancies in the plane and determined that a catastrophic loss of electricity was improbable therefore the ultimate fly by hand option probably was engineered out of the machine. I retired as an airline captain after 32 years of flying and experienced (as do all pilots) lightning and turbulence that causes you to check your shorts from time to time but never experienced any structural problems therefrom. In my mind I've not yet eliminated the possibility of some internal disturbance rather than one caused by nature that brought this plane to its final resting place. God bless their souls, may they rest now in peace.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:08 AM on 06/02/2009

The crash you refer to was with an A320, and it indeed WAS fatal. It occured at an airshow. The crash killed Airbus' chief test pilot, and the chief pilots of several airlines. Quite horrific, and the problem has been fixed. As evidenced by the several thousand A320 family aircraft flying every day.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:47 PM on 06/02/2009
- stdomsgirl I'm a Fan of stdomsgirl 14 fans permalink

I thought ~ Bermuda Triangle & its outermost aspect in the southern Atlantic Ocean. A 'Twilight Zone' The missing plane may have been caught in the Bermuda Triangle ~ doomed. Alas! An ill-fated trip for those poor lost souls.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:55 AM on 06/02/2009
- KarateKid I'm a Fan of KarateKid 292 fans permalink
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To those of you who are wondering why they don't have GPS tracking, I say, what good would that do? They're toast (R.I.P.). If a plane goes down from 35,000 feet, it will basically disintegrate, as will the passengers. They'll only find bits and pieces.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:52 AM on 06/02/2009
- FZliveson I'm a Fan of FZliveson 78 fans permalink
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Karate: All planes that attain flight level 35 go down from 35,000 feet.
Very very few crashes are full perpendicular to the horizon and the glide ration on the jumbo jets is very good. And, lightning is not going to cause a catastrophic airframe failure that would kill the entire electrical system in one foul swoop, to the best of my knowledge.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:44 AM on 06/02/2009
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Strange that ALL planes aren't tracked with GPS and satellites.
Seems like there'd be away of knowing where the planes are at all times.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:55 AM on 06/02/2009
- vinny I'm a Fan of vinny 72 fans permalink
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you would think... i thought the bermuda triangle days were over...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:03 AM on 06/02/2009

Air traffic control is still Radar based. Both the US and Europe are in the process of shifting over to GPS based ATM, but as with most things nobody wants to pay for it. Even then, it would only be in effect in North American and Europe, the rest of the world is responsible for their own ATM systems. Again, nobody wants to pay for the new systems.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:25 PM on 06/02/2009

absolutely heartbreaking... RIP

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:47 PM on 06/01/2009
- McFlipFlop I'm a Fan of McFlipFlop 14 fans permalink
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Some details found on other sites:

But about 4:15 a.m. Paris time, Flight 447's automatic system began a four-minute exchange of messages to the company's maintenance computers, indicating that "several pieces of aircraft equipment were at fault or had broken down," he said.

"This succession of messages signals a totally unforeseeable, great difficulty," he said. "Something quite new within the plane."

During that time, there was no contact with the crew, Gourgeon said.
-------------

The official Agencia Brasil news agency on Monday quoted Brazilian Air Force spokesman Col. Jorge Amaral as saying that a commercial airplane pilot saw what appeared to be fire on the ocean near the route taken by the Air France plane.

"There is information that the pilot of a TAM aircraft saw several orange points on the ocean while flying over the region ... where the Air France plane disappeared," Amaral said, referring to the Brazilian airline TAM. "After arriving in Brazil, the pilot found out about the disappearance (of the Air France plane) and said that he thought those points on the ocean were fire."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:42 PM on 06/01/2009
- Amalek I'm a Fan of Amalek 98 fans permalink
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Was John Locke on board? I am sure they will turn up in a few years, or maybe they already did?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:37 PM on 06/01/2009
- DaleR I'm a Fan of DaleR 17 fans permalink

Yes .. you are a funny guy. A-hole.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:10 AM on 06/02/2009

Cause isn't much comfort to family members who lost or possibly lost loved ones on that flight. You cannot go back in time and undo what may or may not have occurred. Whatever it was, it happened to a very sad, very horrific result. Even seasoned pilots in such situations can have these issues with aircraft, as storms can suddenly develop without warning, giving a pilot time to take an alternate route, or fly higher to get above it. It may have been a list of problems that occurred at once, and the pilots couldn't regroup in time to avoid crashing in the ocean. My prayers to the families at this difficult time, may they somehow find comfort in this miserable day. If I had to say what this was, my bet is mechanical with issues of lightening, poor visibility, but pilot error? No.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:23 PM on 06/01/2009

Nobody knows what happened to this flight. Maybe it is ok? Who knows? Until all the evidence is in, anything is possible.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:26 PM on 06/01/2009

You have a good heart Joey, but I am afraid we can anticipate hearing what we don't want to hear.


Best Regards

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:35 PM on 06/01/2009
- FZliveson I'm a Fan of FZliveson 78 fans permalink
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Joey: The pilot and copilot did not just pull off the road and stay at a Motel 6 because they were feeling drowsy. The plane is in Davy Jones' locker, dude. Don't get too worked up with optimism; it will only serve to make the landing that much harder when the actual truth is revealed

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:23 AM on 06/02/2009
- mergina I'm a Fan of mergina 82 fans permalink
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With all the technology at our disposal in this day and age, we cannot track a jumbo jet from takeoff to landing?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:06 PM on 06/01/2009

Nope

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:27 PM on 06/02/2009
- MIKEBC I'm a Fan of MIKEBC 25 fans permalink
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You just cant pull over to the shoulder up there.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:04 PM on 06/01/2009
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