Environmentalists: UN Talks Too Slow, "We're Losing Time"

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ARTHUR MAX | June 12, 2009 12:17 PM EST | AP

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FILE - The July 19, 2007 file photo shows an iceberg melting off Ammassalik Island in Eastern Greenland. The U.N. talks on climate change in Bonn will be finished on Friday, June 12, 2009. They are due to be completed at a major conference in Copenhagen before the end of the year. (AP Photo/John McConnico, file)

BONN, Germany — U.N. climate delegates completed their first rough sketch of a new global warming agreement Friday, a draft replete with gaps and competing ideas that await decisions by political leaders.

At the end of a two-week negotiating session, the rift lay more clearly exposed between industrial and emerging nations _ and within those blocs _ on the obligations of the 192 countries involved in the talks to control greenhouse gases blamed for climate change.

The end result, due in six months, will determine the course of development for generations in the economies of rich and poor countries, as well as the planet's health.

Though conceptual issues remained unbridged, officials and environmental activists agreed the negotiations progressed toward drafting the framework for the accord that is due to be completed in December at a major conference in Denmark.

World leaders will meet several times later this year, beginning with a Group of Eight summit in July, with climate change on the agenda.

Yvo de Boer, the top U.N. climate change official, said he was confident of reaching an ambitious agreement in Copenhagen, though it will lack details that will require further work.

The latest round showed that governments "are committed to reaching an agreement, and this is a big achievement," he told reporters.

The draft, which began with 53 pages when this session began June 1, ballooned by Friday to about 200 pages as delegations inserted language to be negotiated later. The second draft was expected to be whittled down to a more manageable size at the next round of talks in August.

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Environmental activists said they were concerned at incremental pace of talks.

"We see no political breakthrough. Instead, delegates are just preparing themselves for battles to be fought at later meetings," said Kim Carstensen of the World Wildlife Fund for Nature. It was helpful to clarify their positions, he said, but "we're losing time."

Scientists say industrialized nations must cut emissions by 25 to 40 percent from 1990 levels by 2020 to prevent climate disasters, such as coastal flooding from rising sea levels, severe weather events, and variations in rainfall and temperatures that will affect agriculture and wipe out species of plants and animals.

Pledges from advanced countries fall far short of that range. WWF calculated that the declarations from wealthy countries amounted to a total emissions cut of just 10 percent.

"There is no question that industrialized countries must raise their sights higher," De Boer said.

The talks aim to craft a deal in Copenhagen to succeed the 1997 Kyoto Protocol, which required 37 industrial countries to cut emissions a total 5 percent from 1990 by 2012. It made no demands on developing countries, and the U.S. refused to sign on to that deal.

Now, the U.S. and the European Union say swiftly developing countries like China, India and Brazil must accept some commitments, although they would be of a different nature and legal force than the commitments of the industrial world.

Jonathan Pershing, the chief U.S. delegate, said that unlike the industrial countries China should not have national caps on its emissions.

Beijing should have binding actions, but not binding outcomes, said Pershing, who broke away from the Bonn talks earlier this week to join a U.S. delegation to Beijing.

"Our expectation of China is that they will take domestic actions that can be measured, quantified and reported," he said. "They will be bound to those actions both domestically and in the international arena. That is not the same thing as saying that those actions have to have an outcome that is binding."

On Thursday, India's chief delegate Shyam Saran said his country rejects any limitations on its development, but is willing to allow outside scrutiny of programs built from international funding and the transfer of technology.

With one-third of its 1.2 billion people lacking electricity, India needed to continue growing, and its historical emissions could not compare to the carbon pumped into the atmosphere over the past 150 years by the industrial West.

Saran rejected any idea of scrapping the Kyoto Protocol, which classifies countries as those with emissions targets and those with no obligations at all.

But that structure was unlikely to remain unchanged in Copenhagen to account for emerging economies that would also include South Korea, Brazil and South Africa.

"The world is a lot different now," said Andrew M. Deutz, of The Nature Conservancy, an advocacy group. "To make decisions you need to have the developing countries at the table, and they are going to have to participate" in the solution, he said.

BONN, Germany — U.N. climate delegates completed their first rough sketch of a new global warming agreement Friday, a draft replete with gaps and competing ideas that await decisions by politica...
BONN, Germany — U.N. climate delegates completed their first rough sketch of a new global warming agreement Friday, a draft replete with gaps and competing ideas that await decisions by politica...
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- mioffe I'm a Fan of mioffe 10 fans permalink

WHAT IS MORE IMPORTANT IN NATURE?

IS IT PROPERTIES OF GHG? OR IT IS PROPERTIES OF WATER, ICE, WATER DROPLETS AND WATER VAPOR?
OR MAYBE IT IS CHANGE IN REFLECTION OF DIRECT SUN RADIATION AFTER SOOT WILL CAME TO SNOW, OR AFTER TILLING OF LAND FOR FOOD PRODUCTION?
OR MAYBE IT IS CHANGING OF EVAPORATION ON CONTINENTS AREAS BECAUSE OF THE SAME MANKIND ACTIVITIES?
WHAT IS REASON FOR HUGE CONVECTION FORCES?

Why in South Hemisphere, where is more water is cooler, than in North hemisphere, where are more continents?
Why in every island of Hawaii, or Caribbean Sea, which closer to equator is cooler than in Texas in summer time?

IT ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTIONS FOR MANKIND.

ANSWERS ON THESE QUESTIONS=TO BE OR NOT TO BE.

FORGET ABOUT POLITIC, ABOUT JUNK SCIENCE. EVERYBODY COULD ANSWER, IF HE (SHE), WILL START TO THINK, NOT REPEAT INFORMATION ABOUT GW.
INFORMATION IS NOT KNOWLEDGE. IN THIS CASE INFORMATION IS KNOWLEDGE, WHAT CELEBRITIES THINKING ABOUT GW, OR EVEN MORE WHAT THEIR SPEACHWRITERS THINKING.

EVERYBODY WITH 9 GRADE LEVEL EDUCATION HAS ENOUGH KNOWLEDGE TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM!

PLEASE THINK WHILE READING ANY OF INFORMATION, BEFORE START TO PROMOTE STUPID IDEAS FROM ONE OR ANOTHER SIDE!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 AM on 06/15/2009
- jordan3189 I'm a Fan of jordan3189 20 fans permalink

Hurry up before everybody finds out what frauds we are when the planet starts cooling.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:11 PM on 06/14/2009
- Gabrielle I'm a Fan of Gabrielle 17 fans permalink
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I hate to say it, but by the time we take it seriously, it will be WAY TOO LATE !!!
In America you can 't find anything anywhere on TV about it...I watch TV5 French TV (satelite dish) and they have constant programs showing that we are self destructing.....We are in Peril NOW!
We are worse then the dinosaurs!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:48 AM on 06/14/2009

I believe that Bush said the same thing about the UN for eight years....welcome to reality folks.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:20 PM on 06/13/2009
- mamacat I'm a Fan of mamacat 136 fans permalink

At my age, I do not worry that the environment is going to kill me. However, I have enough compassion for my fellow human beings to care what is going to happen 10, 20, or even 100 years from now. The scientific research has been done, Al Gore and his scientist buddies are right, and it is time to actually do something about Global Warming. The longer we wait, the more difficult it will be to prevent a run-away green-house effect.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:30 PM on 06/13/2009

Goverments could pay couples to have one child.
Ruins busines plans for "EXPANSIONIST ECONOMIES"

4 minutes of truth
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/635.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:05 PM on 06/13/2009

The problem is the inordinate amount of human beings on the planet.
No matter what we legislate or agree to, more people equals more pollution, habitat destruction and energy use. We are obsessed with attaining a standard of living that is outrageous and the profits associated with filling that desire. Growth is the stated goal of all of our financial systems- this requires growth of population and that populations desire for unnecessary crap.
Stop making people- stop believing we all need a three bedroom two bath house and a personal vehicle and maybe you save the species.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:08 PM on 06/13/2009
- AngieMom57 I'm a Fan of AngieMom57 68 fans permalink
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Ok, we got a handle on the problem, any solutions come to mind that we can practice right here, right now?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:34 PM on 06/13/2009
- Gasparilla I'm a Fan of Gasparilla 30 fans permalink

One big thing is to tell the Catholic church they need to stop telling people all over the globe they will burn in hell if they use birth control.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:42 PM on 06/13/2009

Genetically targeted virus's, neutron bombs to get rid of large excess population centers, I can think of all kinds of solutions.

You did not specify pleasant solutions, those, I don't have.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:33 AM on 06/14/2009

Why was my June 12 comment dropped? I don't see where I broke any rules. Gasparilla is the one advocating population reduction. That is much more offensive than an obvious sarcastic remark about plank walking. Or is it the Soros thing. That Soros is a zealous eugenicist is common knowledge, no sarcasm needed there. I'l be eagerly waiting for the answer.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:10 PM on 06/13/2009
- Gasparilla I'm a Fan of Gasparilla 30 fans permalink

I didn't happen to see your original comment, but whatever it was has nothing to do with whatever I said. There is nothing I wrote that could be remotely considered as "offensive". I am advocating stabilizing population, and if we don't we are going to deal with some bad consequences. I said "we have to get population under control", but I never said it was through forcing anyone, just a realization of the problem. Maybe your problem is reading comprehension.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:09 PM on 06/13/2009
- leevntheus I'm a Fan of leevntheus 47 fans permalink
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I look at all the freakin money we're throwing at banks, including the "secret" two trillion the Fed makes out of thin air for their "secret" friends, (the fact that Obama has NOT demanded transparency on this ONE issue should be proof enough to all of this that he is part of the problem - not the solution), and I seriously begin to ponder whether or not its time to get that base on the moon and begin to regenerate life on Mars. We need a place to go or we're going to go POOF like the Mayans.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:42 PM on 06/12/2009
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I worry that for some cold blooded people the big plan for dealing with global resource depletion, global environmental destruction and global warming is to allow epidemics to cull our herd.

Otherwise you would expect them to show more urgency for positive proactive plans.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:57 PM on 06/12/2009
- Gasparilla I'm a Fan of Gasparilla 30 fans permalink

You're really trying to take two different positions. The fact is that we have to get population under control or all those bad things will happen, no matter who wants or doesn't want them. All the "positive proactive plans" are not going to help if we have to deal with an ever expanding population. As the old song says, wishin' and hopin' doesn't get the job done.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:33 PM on 06/12/2009
- Gasparilla I'm a Fan of Gasparilla 30 fans permalink

One of the biggest problems: India and it's "1.2 billion people". And still growing by leaps and bounds. The sooner we start admitting overpopulation is worsening our problems the better. And that doesn't mean they all move to the United States either. It's immigration that's fueling our population growth. Not that a lot of people can even discuss it without charging racism.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:45 PM on 06/12/2009

Overpopulation is a problem that the bulk of humanity cannot face, much like climate change and resource depletion. All these interconnected issues will be discussed, debated, argued, and little games will be played to pretend something is done, but in the end, nothing.

Why? It's simple, the moment any real action is attempted it will hurt, and those who try to deal with the problems will be gone.

The planet itself will be fine and will deal with its' out of balance ecosystems and organisms in the traditional manner. Sucks to be us.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:40 PM on 06/13/2009
- mamacat I'm a Fan of mamacat 136 fans permalink

I too find the case of India very troubling. Fully one third of their people, 400,000,000, more than the populations of the U.S. and Canada combined, live in abject poverty. In interviews on television, from Charlie Rose to Jon Stewart, their economic leaders have said that they see the huge, growing, (poverty stricken) population of India as a positive thing, something that allows them to compete successfully with the other countries of the world. But at what cost? Should all the other countries of the world adopt their model, and consciously grow their populations as fast as they can, with a large underclass, as a way to keep labor costs at rock bottom? I much prefer the European model, of stable populations and dwindling poverty - I prefer societies that strive to make everyone's lives better, not just the lives of those at the top.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:51 PM on 06/13/2009
- Gasparilla I'm a Fan of Gasparilla 30 fans permalink

It's the same problem in a lot of developing countries. A man may have 10 acres to make a living farming. But if he has 4 sons and the land is split between them, they can't make a living on the smaller amount of land. So that is why a lot of the population ends up in these huge horrendous slums in these megacities.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:20 AM on 06/14/2009
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What are you expecting when giving the leadership to negotiate about environmental issues to such a bureaucratic institution like the UN ? The whole world will have gone till the water-level reaches the floors at their Ivory Tower. If someone is only delivering lip-service to the hungry and starving in Darfur they are not different to me like a toothless tiger in a green jungle. However, maybe a highly needed movement will start if the 1,2 billion Indian citizens are soon effected by rising water-levels and crop damages. Let us see if we they can be fed by money instead of rice.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:13 PM on 06/12/2009
- Nooooorm I'm a Fan of Nooooorm 3 fans permalink

Maybe this helps to explain it:

http://www.internationalreporter.com/News-508/global-warming-hits-a-snow-bound-india-killing-many-.html

The article portrays a snowstorm and frigid temperatures as a result of global warming ("climate change").

MIL, Feb 22, 2005
Monica Bhatia

In the last few days, India was hit by the changing global climate as Kashmir witnessed a snow wave killing more than 100 people. The snow's fall out affected far flung areas 1500 km away in the city Mumbai,India's commercial hub, recorded the coldest February morning in 40 years.

Temperatures dropped across north India and chilly winds swept the region - including the national capital - forcing residents to dig out their warm clothes from the closet.

http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/india-challenges-global-warming-fears-2008-07-25

By: Kelvin Kemm
25th July 2008
India has issued a report challenging global warming fears. This is dramatic. The Indian Prime Minister's Council on Climate Change said that India would rather save its people from poverty than global warming, and would not cut growth in order to cut gases.
Referring to claimed changes in climate attributed to human activity, the report declares: "No firm link between the documented charges described below and warming due to an anthropogenic climate change has yet been established."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:34 PM on 06/12/2009


global warming, climate change, that is so old fashion!

I propose: CACA (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Alteration).

Some proper uses of the acronym:
"Some are into antiques. Some are into sports. Albert Gore is into CACA."
"NASA's James Hansen is a CACA expert."
"CACA happens."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:03 PM on 06/13/2009
- AngieMom57 I'm a Fan of AngieMom57 68 fans permalink
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"Losing time..."
"Saving money..."

Some of the first "coin" "sound bites" one studies in NLP...neur­o-linguist­ics programing...

Self-reliance is the name of the game, if something needs to be done correctly we need to collectively do what is at hand consciously...

"Live simply so others may simply live."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:42 PM on 06/12/2009
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