Battle Erupts Over Gun Rights For Terror Suspects

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First Posted: 06-23-09 02:16 PM   |   Updated: 07-24-09 05:12 AM

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Congress At Gunpoint

In defense of the right to bear arms, the National Rifle Association and other gun rights groups seem to have taken up the cause of those on the FBI's terror watch list.

There were 963 people from the watch list who were recorded trying to buy guns in the last five years, according to a new Government Accounting Office report. Well over 800 purchases were permitted under the current law. Only 10 percent of all those who tried to purchase guns were actually turned down.

Sen. Frank Lautenberg would like to stop these sales. The New Jersey Democrat has introduced legislation, the "Denying Firearms and Explosives to Dangerous Terrorists Act of 2009," to prohibit gun sales to anyone on the FBI's watch list.

It is Lautenberg's second attempt to address what he describes as a national security concern. A similar bill, which the senator introduced In 2007, met with a determined assault from the NRA and other pro-gun groups before ultimately failing. Despite initial support from the Bush administration, the legislation lost traction after the former president drew fire from the NRA.

In a press release issued Monday, Sen. Lautenberg, invoked the GAO report, which revealed that terror suspects looking to purchase guns are overwhelmingly approved on the grounds that there are no legal means to disqualify them.

"The special interest gun lobby has so twisted our nation's laws that the rights of terrorists are placed above the safety of everyday Americans," Lautenberg said. "The recent GAO report is proof positive that known and suspected terrorists are exploiting a major loophole in our law, threatening our families and our communities. This 'terror gap' has been open too long and our national security demands that we shut it down."

The Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, a gun rights organization, countered Lautenberg with the argument that the proposed change is just the beginning of a larger battle to abolish the Second Amendment altogether. In a statement released Monday, CCRKBA accused Lautenberg of trying to "expand his gun prohibition agenda under the cloak of national security." The group suggested that Lautenberg "probably would" strip Second Amendment rights from all Americans if he had the chance.

Although Lautenberg has supported stronger restrictions on gun sales, a source close to the senator told the Huffington Post that the bill is not designed to strip gun rights from law-abiding individuals, but rather to protect Americans from those who have been decreed a potential danger to society.

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The NRA, one of the most powerful lobbies in the United States, used a different strategy against Lautenberg. In remarks made to the New York Times, NRA spokesman Andrew Arulanandam challenged the authenticity of the GAO findings and warned that those who have wrongfully been designated to the terror watch list could be stripped of their Second Amendment rights.

The NRA did not return requests by the Huffington Post for further comment.

But the battle lines are clear, and this time around Lautenberg is confident he can defeat the tenacious gun lobby. "Once people see the numbers in this report and see that the Senator has a targeted, common sense solution in the bill, he thinks people can be swayed," a senate staffer told the Huffington Post.

While acknowledging the gun lobby's stranglehold on this issue, keeping deadly weapons away from potential terrorists is "so reasonable it's hard to reasonably be against it," he said.

Peter Hamm, communications director for the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, agreed, calling the GAO report "scary." Hamm considered it "foolhardy" to support the rights of potential terrorists to purchase guns. "These are people that we may not be allowing to get on an airplane, but yet we're going to let them buy an AK-47. It defies common sense," he said.

Lautenberg's persistence has not gone unnoticed. "We certainly strongly support Sen. Lautenberg's bill and we salute him for continuing to fight to get it passed," a spokesman for the The Brady Center told the Huffington Post. "We think it's very reasonable, and that it ought to be tasked unanimously by the United States Congress."

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In defense of the right to bear arms, the National Rifle Association and other gun rights groups seem to have taken up the cause of those on the FBI's terror watch list. There were 963 people from th...
In defense of the right to bear arms, the National Rifle Association and other gun rights groups seem to have taken up the cause of those on the FBI's terror watch list. There were 963 people from th...
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- djkrlsn I'm a Fan of djkrlsn 23 fans permalink

There is a simple way to remove a person's right to own a gun--convict them of a felony. If you cannot get a felony conviction--you have no business denying someone a firearm.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:32 PM on 06/28/2009

I'll support LautenZombies proposal , right after he ammends it to include stripping the 1st Ammendment right to Free Speech from anyone on the " watch list " . After all , hate speech and firery sermons from terrorists need to be stamped out , right ???

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:30 PM on 06/24/2009
- rattler99 I'm a Fan of rattler99 19 fans permalink
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Remember that HLS fearless leader Fruitcake Napolitano put most of us into the category of potential terrorists when she came out with her airhead lefty memo on the subject - thus I am in favor of hanging hard onto the 2nd Amendment even if it means some naughty people can buy guns - otherwise, we would all be in danger of being disarmed if we disagreed with this stalinist regime

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:56 AM on 06/24/2009
- daedelus I'm a Fan of daedelus 36 fans permalink
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Your bunker needs better ventilation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:03 AM on 06/29/2009

Suddenly there is no more distrust of our government now that dems are in power. Now we can get rid of all our Bill of Rights since Obama is the president ; corruption and government abuses is history. Whose drinking the cool aid here.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:57 AM on 06/29/2009
- normathumb I'm a Fan of normathumb 20 fans permalink

I am not an NRA member. Never owned a gun. I am distrubed that some think it is okay to take away rights by simply putting someones name on a list. No Charges. No trial. Rights become priviledges that can be denied. We have imprisoned people for years with no charges. The Bill of Rights are being ignored. I think the most recent past American junta was chock full of war criminals. These are the people who created this so called terror list. Is there something to charge them with? Charge them. But I am not in favor of depriving their rights because someone from the Cheney regime put them on a list. Nixon kept a list, too. And it is a badge of honor to have been on it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:47 AM on 06/24/2009
- OdinsEye I'm a Fan of OdinsEye 57 fans permalink
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To add:

Let's say you are pro-life. You post on some boards where some pretty radical pro-lifers hang out. Maybe you go so far as to call abortions murder of defenseless babies. And maybe some on those boards (not you) say that murdering an abortion doctor is justifiable defense of these babies. Depending on the organization/agency watching those boards, you might find yourself on a terror watch list.

Have you done anything wrong? No. Are you a terrorist? No. Yet there are those who will eagerly lump you in with Tim McVeigh and ObL.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:59 PM on 06/24/2009

Mr Hamm is wrong in the respect that an AK-47 cannot be purchased without a federal permit and an extensive background check as well as a nice yearly fee for it's possession. All of this prohibits the purchase by most everyone. Possession without a permit is a federal felony.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:43 PM on 06/24/2009

The "no fly list" was not created during the Bush era, it was creat back in the 70's when muslim terrorist began hijacking western commercial air craft. The current administration is doing the same thing, air raiding villages, renditions, detention of enemy combatants, drons killing people in soveriegn countries but Bush is the only war criminal.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:46 PM on 06/24/2009
- warlover I'm a Fan of warlover 4 fans permalink

When they say people on the terror watch list are they talking about right-wing extremist wannabes with assualt weapons or middle east terrorists?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:40 AM on 06/24/2009
- Dimensio I'm a Fan of Dimensio 19 fans permalink

I believe that it is a reference to any random individual who has been placed upon a list for no justifiable reason at all, without any judicial oversight and with no due process. Senator Ted Kennedy was, at one time, included on the "watch list".

It is disturbing that a large number of individuals believe it acceptable to abridge a Constitutionally protected right without due process and with no means of appeal.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:42 AM on 06/24/2009
- kimleehan I'm a Fan of kimleehan 29 fans permalink

Sean Hannity even admits to owning guns on his T.V. and radio shows and they let him fly on planes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:00 AM on 06/24/2009
- djkrlsn I'm a Fan of djkrlsn 23 fans permalink

kim--other than a pathological dislike of conservatives--why should Hannity not be allowed to fly?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:39 PM on 06/28/2009
- OdinsEye I'm a Fan of OdinsEye 57 fans permalink
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They are talking about anyone they think might be a terrorist, domestic or foreign.

The "terror watch list" or TSDB is actually a compilation of other lists from other organizations, each with their own criteria as to who might be a potential terrorist.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:01 PM on 06/24/2009

Don't say terrorist! It's a bad word. Someone may not like us if we use this word.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:19 AM on 06/24/2009
- rattler99 I'm a Fan of rattler99 19 fans permalink
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we could apologize

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:03 PM on 06/24/2009
- JackNasty I'm a Fan of JackNasty 66 fans permalink
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There are more restrictions on boarding an airplane than there are on obtaining explosives or a gun.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:54 AM on 06/24/2009
- Dimensio I'm a Fan of Dimensio 19 fans permalink

Please compare the respective restrictions.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:59 AM on 06/24/2009

I can fly anywhere yet the state of California makes it a crime for me to bring fireworks into the state that are not safe and sane. What do you mean it's easier to obtain explosives? What department in Wal Mart can I buy C4 explosives I didn't find one yesterday? Flying a plane does not require a ten day waiting period or a check for felony and mental illness excemption. A felon can board a plane so can the mentally ill.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:27 AM on 06/24/2009
- JackNasty I'm a Fan of JackNasty 66 fans permalink
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There's no need for terrorists to shop at Walmart or to wait when they can pick up anything they want today at their friendly neighborhood gun show. No certification of sanity is required!

Thanks NRA!

If only those Raging Grannies could only get on an airliner when their names are still on the Bush era no fly list.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:23 AM on 06/24/2009

Senator Lautenberge said" The recent GAO report is proof positive that known and suspected terrorist are exploiting a major loophole in our law, threatening our families and our communities. This 'terror gap' has been open too long and our national security demands that we shut it down." Senator Lautenberge is calling Senator Kennedy a terrorist, being he was on the 'no fly list' back in 05 untile he used his influence to get it removed unlike ordinary citizens who don't have that kind of power. Why isn't Senator Lautenberge demanding the removal of Senator Kennedy from his office since Kennedy is " threatening our families and our communities". Once a terrorist will always be a terrorist.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:52 AM on 06/24/2009
- kamachanda I'm a Fan of kamachanda 25 fans permalink

Prediction, the bill fails when a rider is attached allowing five year olds to carry concealed weapons to kindergarten.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:01 AM on 06/24/2009
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As long as the bill fails.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:11 AM on 06/24/2009
- JackNasty I'm a Fan of JackNasty 66 fans permalink
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The NRA might ask, "What kind of parents wouldn't want their five year old to be armed when it might allow that child to defend himself during from an accidental shooting?"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:57 AM on 06/24/2009
- Dimensio I'm a Fan of Dimensio 19 fans permalink

Please validate your prediction.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:51 AM on 06/24/2009
- OdinsEye I'm a Fan of OdinsEye 57 fans permalink
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The NRA would not and does not support such a ludicrous idea.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:03 PM on 06/24/2009
- djkrlsn I'm a Fan of djkrlsn 23 fans permalink

Nasty--you would be far more effective if you argued the facts and not BC talking points (which tend to be flat out wrong)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:44 PM on 06/28/2009
- djkrlsn I'm a Fan of djkrlsn 23 fans permalink

Typical Bradybot horseshit--the only people seriously talking about kindergartners packing heat to class are the same people who support the same laws that Heller tossed

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:43 PM on 06/28/2009
- Artemis34 I'm a Fan of Artemis34 120 fans permalink

There are two issues:

1) The "watch list"

which started under Bush and the so-called "Patriot Act" which is nothing of the kind.

I'm sure everyone who opposed Bush is on the list.

Scrap the "Patriot Act" and the "list."

and

2) The access to weapons and explosives

Seems that most people we don't want to have arms are already forbidden, due to felony conviction...

So, we probably just need better enforcement of existing laws.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:03 AM on 06/24/2009
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Definitely, scrap the PATRIOT act & terror watchlist and enforce existing laws. Its a simple solution, why isn't Lautenberg proposing this instead....?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:41 AM on 06/24/2009
- wdw505 I'm a Fan of wdw505 68 fans permalink

because he is a democrat..­........an­d they like curtailing rights regarding guns

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:46 AM on 06/24/2009
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Yay, people are looking to deprive people over their 2nd Amendment rights without due process.

Try and convict these people, otherwise, why are they on this list?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:48 AM on 06/24/2009
- Artemis34 I'm a Fan of Artemis34 120 fans permalink

Actually, if you are on the list you can still buy weapons.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:49 AM on 06/24/2009
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Which is as it should be. However, Lautenberg seems to believe that due process is no longer neccessary.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:56 AM on 06/24/2009

When EVERYONE is armed to the teeth at all times we'll all be so much safer..right??
tm

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:22 AM on 06/24/2009
- Artemis34 I'm a Fan of Artemis34 120 fans permalink

Right, just like in Somalia!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:50 AM on 06/24/2009
- twogunmojo I'm a Fan of twogunmojo 28 fans permalink

and your proof is.....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:00 AM on 06/24/2009
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That's a civil war, the militias are responsible for deciding who gets armed.

Only fighters get armed, ($30 for an AK is still too expensive when you can't even eat) and the majority of the population is still left unarmed.

Its similar to a situation where only the army/armies would carry weapons, so its a really weak attack on the individual's right to carry. A better comparison would be Switzerland.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:32 AM on 06/24/2009

Of course the NRA won't back anything restritcing gun sales or use. There isn't an shread of responsibility in that enitre organization. Total S C U M.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:31 AM on 06/24/2009
- Dimensio I'm a Fan of Dimensio 19 fans permalink

The National Rifle Association assisted in authoring legislation that prohibits the possession of firearms by convicted felons and by those adjuciated as "mentally defective", and they have assisted in authoring legislation intended to make obtaining firearms by such prohibited individuals more difficult. Your assertion is false and dishonest; please explain why your position should be considered credible.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:44 AM on 06/24/2009
- OdinsEye I'm a Fan of OdinsEye 57 fans permalink
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The NRA is the organization which first backed studies for background checks at point of sale and lobbied Congress to implement it.

The NRA supports the restrictions of firearm possession by convicted felons and the mentally deficient.

The NRA supports laws which punish violations of federal firearms laws by sentences to be served in federal prisons instead of being plea barginned away or omitted by local prosecutors or sentences served in local prisons.

The NRA supports laws which levy additional punishments on those who carry, brandish, or discharge a firearm in commission of a crime.

IOW, please get your facts straight and quit arguing from ignorance.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:08 PM on 06/24/2009
- factotem I'm a Fan of factotem 120 fans permalink
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And we're supposed to be worried about the excesses of the ACLU?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:42 AM on 06/24/2009
- twogunmojo I'm a Fan of twogunmojo 28 fans permalink

they do side with nambla...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:01 AM on 06/24/2009
- Dimensio I'm a Fan of Dimensio 19 fans permalink

Are you suggesting that individuals who advocate unpopular or distasteful goals should have their First Amendment rights abridged?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:59 AM on 06/24/2009
- whatthel I'm a Fan of whatthel 238 fans permalink
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Good point.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:27 AM on 06/24/2009
- JoeSchmuk I'm a Fan of JoeSchmuk 13 fans permalink

I guess the question for me now as i wrestle with the 2nd amendment issue is this: is not Iran's situation at the moment an arguement for 2nd amendment rights? Many are the examples of millions of people around the world who are now living in conditions where they have no arms, and are living lives of repression and fear. Wouldn't i want a gun given those circumstances? Or is live to fight another day a more appropriate position?

And yet, if the 2nd amendment is there to protect a populace's right to defend itself against an unjust regime, then where were those arms when the 2000 election was stolen in Florida? Why was there no uprising backed by an armed and righteous militia then? Of what real use is the 2nd amendment anyway? Why bother with the wide range of negative consequence of having guns around in the first place if you're not going to use them when the time is ripe? In this scenario, it seems that guns are sort of like god: comforting to have around but of little real use in the modern world.

As for guns for terrorists, isn’t that another issue: the one about guilty until proven innocent?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:13 AM on 06/24/2009
- twogunmojo I'm a Fan of twogunmojo 28 fans permalink

because the election was not stolen....if you had ran a better candidate...say someone who could have carried one more state than he did...say his home state....gore would have been president....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:03 AM on 06/24/2009
- wdw505 I'm a Fan of wdw505 68 fans permalink

that would be a suspected terrorist........if they had enough evidence they would be in custody

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:43 AM on 06/24/2009
- SouPro I'm a Fan of SouPro 9 fans permalink
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Probably because the majority of Americans still believed in our system after the 2000 elections despite being shaken by it? The difference in Iran is that their infallible system is no longer seen as absolute to the Iranian people. In the United States we still believe we can make our government better even when it fails us through more active participation. Case in point, the Democrats went back to Florida this year and took the state by storm through maximizing political participation. When all civil options fail however, it needs to be dissolved by the people and reconstituted. In Iran, they have no hope for recourse when the ultimate governing authority claims to be divine. A society where any and every conflict ends in revolution is not a society that can sustain itself and you're also ignoring the positive consequences of having a society which is free to arm itself.

It's a great idea to carpet the world when you've got a lot of the stuff, but when supplies run thin it's best to have your own pair of shoes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:17 AM on 06/24/2009
- KLordsha I'm a Fan of KLordsha 28 fans permalink
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This article is really interesting because the NRA have put themselves between a rock and a hard place. I wonder how they'll wiggle out of this one...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:00 AM on 06/24/2009
- twogunmojo I'm a Fan of twogunmojo 28 fans permalink

what is so hard about defending your constitutional rights....if obama decided that people on the watch list can no longer worship at all...would you support that...even though the only thing they are guilty of is being on the list...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:38 AM on 06/24/2009
- Dimensio I'm a Fan of Dimensio 19 fans permalink

Please explain your assertion. To what "rock" and "hard place" do you refer?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:42 AM on 06/24/2009
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