Most Americans Want Health Reform But Worry About Costs, Quality

Washington Post:

A majority of Americans see government action as critical to controlling runaway health-care costs, but there is broad public anxiety about the potential impact of reform legislation and conflicting views about the types of fixes being proposed on Capitol Hill, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

Read the whole story: Washington Post

Comments

[expired]

Corporate insurance and "health care"
Here's what they are afraid of losing:

ANNUAL COMPENSATION (2006 and 2007):
� Ronald A. Williams, Chair/ CEO, Aetna Inc., $23,045,834
� H. Edward Hanway, Chair/ CEO, Cigna Corp, $30.16 million
� David B. Snow, Jr, Chair/ CEO, Medco Health, $21.76 million
� Michael B. MCallister, CEO, Humana Inc, $20.06 million
� Stephen J. Hemsley, CEO, UnitedHealth Group, $13,164,529
� Angela F. Braly, President/ CEO, Wellpoint, $9,094,771
� Dale B. Wolf, CEO, Coventry Health Care, $20.86 million
� Jay M. Gellert, President/ CEO, Health Net, $16.65 million
� William C. Van Faasen, Chairman, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Massachusetts, $3 million plus $16.4 million in retirement benefits
� Charlie Baker, President/ CEO, Harvard Pilgrim Health Care, $1.5 million
� James Roosevelt, Jr., CEO, Tufts Associated Health Plans, $1.3 million
� Cleve L. Killingsworth, President/CEO Blue Cross Blue Shield of Massachusetts, $3.6 million
� Raymond McCaskey, CEO, Health Care Service Corp (Blue Cross Blue Shield), $10.3 million
� Daniel P. McCartney, CEO, Healthcare Services Group, Inc, $ 1,061,513
� Daniel Loepp, CEO, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, $1,657,555
� Todd S. Farha, CEO, WellCare Health Plans, $5,270,825
� Michael F. Neidorff, CEO, Centene Corp, $8,750,751
� Daniel Loepp, CEO, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, $1,657,555
� Todd S. Farha, CEO, WellCare Health Plans, $5,270,825
� Michael F. Neidorff, CEO, Centene Corp, $8,750,751

[JuliaRain]

Republican Lies About Canada's Superior Health Care

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diane-francis/republican-lies-about-can_b_201521.html

Debunking Canadian health care myths

http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_12523427

Americans Who've Used Canada's Health-Care System Respond to Current Big-Lie Media Campaign

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-mann/americans-whove-used-cana_b_215256.html

The Cost Conundrum
What a Texas town can teach us about health care

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/06/01/090601fa_fact_gawande

Ex-Hospital CEO Battles Reform Effort

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/10/AR2009051002243.html?hpid=topnews

Health Care Rationing Rhetoric Overlooks Reality

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/17/business/economy/17leonhardt.html?_r=1&hp

What do we pay for, anyway?

http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_12523429

Dear AMA: I Quit!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-chris-mccoy/dear-ama-i-quit_b_214318.html

Let the flaming begin.

[ProudNeoCon]

Lets see if we can get competing link list:


but guess what: there is a list of about 80 links to rebut you. and they all in one place:

http://www.angelfire.com/pa/sergeman/issues/healthcare/socialized.html

Clearly biased list but so is yours. They have links to all major newspaper articles..­.

[felidaeus]

Here's the funny thing. Most of the canadian links document the 100s of people not getting healthcare.

The american ones are the MILLIONS OF PEOPLE NOT GETTING HEALTHCARE.

Who has the bigger problem?

Until you can show me that over a million Canadians are not getting the medical care they need, I'll continue to call bullshit.

I don't need to pay $100 to go and get told by the doctor I have a cold, not the flu. That makes me happy.

[CJWebber]

JuliaRain, it seems these people insist on getting scr*wed by insurance companies. It's amazing.

[JuliaRain]

Many of these people have more love for medical profiteering than for their fellow citizens. I've already been accused of being "an ti- American" and will probably be called the T word next for advocating health care for them. It's craziness. Anyways, hope the weather is good where you are CJ.

[abbyrose86]

For those who are concerned that their employer sponsored health care will go away with a government option...s­o what....th­at is a good thing.

As a small business owner, I assure you, business provides benefits when they HAVE to not because they want to. If an employer did NOT have to supply health benefits, in time they would offer higher wages in order to attract good employees. Public health insurance is a good for employers and employees, alike. To illustrate; I pay over $1000 per month for family coverage and $400 for individuals. This was the best deal available. For the family plan, we pay 60% of the premium and the employee pays 40% via payroll deduction. We pay in full for individual coverage.

Our average salary is $30-45K per year. We can't afford higher wages and remain competitive BECAUSE we are paying $600 per month ($7200 a year) for family coverage. Do the math ($30K + $7200 + other benefit costs = the total compensation package). If your salary is $30K year and benefits are $10K and the employer's payroll taxes and other costs equal another 5K, that means the cost to the employer is $45K per year NOT 30K.

I'm simplifying the concept for sake of brevity. The concept of benefits is actually misleading to most employees. They are already paying but don't realize it...benef­its cost the employer..­.and the employee. Benefits are not freebies..­..they are just added into your total compensation package!

[AnnfromCA]

Exactly. I so tried to tell my more conservative buddies that this was where they could really distinguish themselves from the DEMS.

Become the champions of small and mid-size business! Be a part of recovery solutions.

Alas, the fear of lines and other such silly nonsense clouds the discussion.

I gave up.

[LeighAnnes]

I work for a large company and the cost is becoming too much for them. Small companies simply can't afford it. The handyman installing my windows and doors didn't have any insurance. He said it was more than $1700 a month for his family.

[ProudNeoCon]

Alternative: There is a goverment healthcare and you pay more to your employees. However taxes go up. For people in $30-45K range the net amount is positive, for people with some higher income it would be negative as extra taxes overweight the insurance cost. So what you have done is to create a wealth transfer from richer to poorer...

[AnnfromCA]

Here's reality. Blue Cross is fighting class action lawsuits now in CA. The insurance regulatory agency was unsuccessful in stopping false and predatory practices. So this company, which is the largest in the US, enticed millions who lost insurance to get private insurance from them.

Except, when they file a claim, BC goes back, finds some "lie" on the app, and denies the medical treatment in the middle.

Now, one lady had no idea that a doctor had made a notation, "possible blah, blah." She was never informed or treated for this possible. That was used to deny her treatment for a life-threatening illness.

They cut her off. And they are now fighting her in court.

Unbelievable. This is private insurance coming your way!

[Lyr]

Repeal the HMO act. There is no need to give Blue Cross subsidies and special treatment. Blue Cross is a monster created and enabled by the congress of the united states, why do you trust them to fix health care if they won't protect you from the monsters they created?

[Lyr]

Contrast that situation with getting plastic surgery. Prices are falling and quality is going up. And insurance and government subsidy is nowhere to be found.

[ProudNeoCon]

elective procedures are not that good an example... On another hand non-traditional medicine has a same trend and is still much cheaper...

[ProudNeoCon]

1) The pre-existing conditions applies only to people with gaps in their insurance coverage (please correct me if I am wrong about this law)

2) All we have is her word that she was never told. How can insurance company check that?

[AnnfromCA]

There was no treatment. That's proof.

[AnnfromCA]

But more important, why in the heck would you defend an application process that requires you to know the notes made by a doctor, when you can't even read your own file?

Say what?

Is that a fair practice?

[LeighAnnes]

I think she should get treatment even if she has a "pre-existing condition.­" Health care, in a civilized society, should be a right not a privilege. Health care insurance is an immoral concept. Driving is a privilege. You can live without it, difficult as that is sometimes. To treat health care in the same manner is reprehensible.

[Lyr]

Read this http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=2819 I don't agree with the policy proposal at the end but it gives some good insight into what the market effects were by forcing HMO's through the act of law to the center of the health care system.

[timberdoodle]

What is wrong with the American thought process? Every industrialized country in the world has free universal health care and their citizens would revolt if they every lost this right.

Are Americans so stupid they actually believe the lies that come out of the Republican's mouths like Senator Shelby when he stated America has the best health care system in the world.

If the public isn't smart enough or educated enough to figure out something this simple then they deserve to perish like they have been doing for the past 50 years just so insurance companies can get rich and the Executive's make billions.

[ProudNeoCon]

Is it possible that we see what is going on in those countries and do not want to repeat their mistakes?

[Chaimirija]

Just list them... no google cut and paste this time

[AnnfromCA]

It's more likely that you're missing what's going on in our own country. People are woefully underinsured now, even many who imagine they have good benefits.

They are simply wrong.

One major illness will put them into bankruptcy.

You're better off with no insurance, frankly, than underinsurance.

[LeighAnnes]

Is it possible to see what is going on in these countries and try to repeat what they've done right?

[lysistrata]

Sounds like you are the one who refuses to see what is wrong here. Have you ever been in another country and used another health care system?

[Lyr]

It's not "free health care' and it isn't all roses. We have problems with our system, but they are created by government involvement. For instance the HMO act. Our health care wouldn't be so messed up if the feds just stayed out of it a bit more, and did something about the AMA creating market shortages of doctors and nurse practitioners.

[Chaimirija]

yes, the AMA does like to lobby

[lysistrata]

The system was a mess and HMOS WERE SUPPOSED TO FIX IT IF ONLY WE WOULD KEEP IT PRIVATE.

[SammyD]

This sounds like a better approach. Americans are too stupid and uninformed to understand why there are difficulties with health care. The answer to them is to take the easy way out with universal health care.

[northstar11]

a public option health care system is not a free-for-all banquet.

there will be a formulary for what is covered and what is not --rates for procedures will be negotiated between the payer and service provider ---just like the book at the local auto repair place.

for stuff not covered you have private insurance or pay out of pocket(tatoo removal, cosmetic surgery)

the point is no one should be without basic care. or cut off by emp[loyers and insurance companies.

[AnnfromCA]

Of course. It's not going to be a free-for-all, obviously.

[ProudNeoCon]

I have used several different systems:

old USSR
British
German
Canadian
Current Russian

The extreme case is old USSR, were medical care was free and some of the technics were amazing but if you need a shot of antibiotics you had to buy them in the black market. The system was free but it was so rationed that you needed "blat" (connections) to get anything. So you ended up paying for it but in different form. That is true but to dramaticly lesser degree in Canadian, British and German systems. I will adress Canadian since I know it better than others. For most of the services things are pretty good. For specialized care it is bellow par. For example the wait for MRIs is insane..

The best system right now is in current Russia (by accident). They kept the old USSR system but also added US style private care. So everyone has a very bad medical care and peope who can afford it have a very good one. I would support a national medical care which provides the most basic services: it will pull a tooth and put a metal crown but that is it, it will do a by-pass but using the cheapest methods (even if it is less effective). This will get everyone some level of care but give incentive for companies to continue providing private insurance

[Chaimirija]

I ran across this tripe yesterday.­..nice try...

[ProudNeoCon]

what a strong response..­. You convinced me...

[lysistrata]

I know what you say about the German system is an outright lie, I vouch for that. I used the German system for years, I know.

[ProudNeoCon]

I am happy to discuss that with you, but I would suggest you provide a touch more details...

[JuliaRain]

"For example the wait for MRIs is insane.."

Nope, not true.

[ProudNeoCon]

Oh yes it is true. My boss ( who works in Canada but has US insurance as well) ended up driving his daughter accross the border to get MRI done.

How many air ambulances there are in the entire province of Quebec? Exactly ZERO... What do you do if you have accident more than an hour drive from trama center- you die...

[Mom4Choice]

So you're suggesting if we switch to universal care, MRI machines will spontaneously combust, nurses and doctors will suddenly forget how to do their jobs and all but one hospital in each major city will shut down without warning? I'm sure that in some countries there may be issues with not having enough equipment/­staff/faci­lities etc., but that is not the case here. The outrageous amounts of money we've spent over the years on insurance and healthcare are reflected in the soaring glass-fronted hospital towers, plush doctors' office waiting rooms, and luxurious birthing suites across the country. Those things won't magically disappear the second universal healthcare is passed. In fact, the biggest differences you'll probably see is your doctor might buy a new BMW every 3 years instead of every 2, and that poor woman with diabetes you see on the street everyday might finally get the medical care she needs. How awful would that be?

[ProudNeoCon]

You are right, it probobly will take 10-15 years before the current investment in equipment will become absolute..­. So for next 10-15 years you will have the best of both words...

[mitsie]

What I don't understand is the difference in the articles that are posted here today. One say that the President my be open to taking our public options, which seems different from this article.

Is it possible for one reporter to get the facts here and post them? Will there be a public option or not? Bottom line, and I am an advid supporter of the President. If he can't get the public plan passed I'm afraid he will lose the next election. I sure as heck don't want to see a Sarah Palin or anyone like her in the White House.

Come on Immanuel, get this plan passed. Carry a big stick telling the Democratic Senators there will be no money forthcoming from the DNC, or no campaigning for those up for election in 2010 and 2012. See how fast the bill gets passed if you take away their money.

[AnnfromCA]

The article is simply saying what's obvious. He's not using the veto power to bully the Dems into passing this.

He sure pushed through that stimulus bill, though. If your a govt worker, your benefits are protected.

[wsblake]

Typical brainwashed Americans and our warped sense of priorities. We worry about the costs for universal health care- which every single W3estern nation has but us-and which is an absolute necessity. But we have no problem paying 2,000,000,000,000. 00 a year for defense , not to mention 5,000,000,­000.00 for the War in Iraq alone.

[CJWebber]

My thoughts exactly.

[ProudNeoCon]

I rather pay out of pocket for my doctor visit than have my wife being forced to wear burka...

[Chaimirija]

then give her a choice in the matter

[timberdoodle]

Now you are rapidly becoming an accessory to terrorism by spreading ridiculous fears.

[wsblake]

Canadian women have to wear burkas?

[CJWebber]

what a completely rid!culous comment, NeoCon

[AnnfromCA]

Two different topics, to me.

[LeighAnnes]

Agreed. It's a common tactic though. Conflate two unrelated ideas.

[Lyr]

I am all for cutting the biggest government program there is, empire. I also don't think the best for health care is empowering the government even further. They created the HMO's (Ted Kennedy authored the HMO act) why on earth should we trust them to reform it? What do they really know about providing medical care?

[Wiseup2Day]

How is it that our tax dollars pay for abortions.­.yet we still allow those who get pregnant and don't have health care insurance to have babies? We could save a fortune..i­f we just said the government will pay for the abortion which costs$700 instead of a birth that costs over $20,000 per. That's common sense legislatio­n...if you don't have a problem with abortion.

[CJWebber]

Really? Abortions are free in the U.S.?

[Chaimirija]

got news for you...most insurance companies pay for abortions.­..

[LeighAnnes]

But many of them don't pay for birth control. Go figure...

[Wiseup2Day]

We are talking about the uninsured here..it's smart legislation.

[alwqb]

Chuck Todd yesterday complained to Chris Matthew's "What if your employer wants to change to the government program, then what happens?"

Well, Chuck, I can tell you that between myself and my husband our collective employers change insurance companies 5 times and there was nothing we could do about it. Employers search for the cheapest insurance and there are companies who search and seek out companies to offer them deals which will always screwed your benefits.

Why in God's name have we handed over our health to a money making corporations?

[Chaimirija]

I would think companies would love to not have to pay for your premiums

[LeighAnnes]

I think that is the way things are moving. They are in my company anyway. And I work for a large international company. You know for sure that small companies run by individuals find providing health care to employees a real burden. Many of them don't do it.

[MoeB]

Thank you! The charity I work for switched THREE times since I've been here (8 years)...a­nd not ONCE did I get to "choose" which company they picked. They went with CHEAP.

[ProudNeoCon]

Did you choose the charity you work for? Guess what: insurance is part of the decision where to workd...

[just saying]

Well, it's either them or hand it over to the government. Only with the latter, you have no choice but to buy in. If you're fine with that, then great, problem solved. If not, then it's not.

[LeighAnnes]

You don't have any choice in the former either.

[lysistrata]

It is a dumb question, if we had national insurance people would be insured, no matter the employer. The employers are bailing out right now, so what is the point of the question?

We need good and affordable insurance it does not matter in what form we pay, through the employer, a payroll tax, a premium, these are the details, we know we have to pay in one form or another. But we can eliminate humongous profits and CEO salaries. No GS in the Medicare system earns hundreds of million $$ a year.

[mitsie]

No one wants to talk about the cancer patients in Las Vegas, and other cities, who can no longer get care because the hospitals closed their cancer clinics. This is unethical and immoral, and should alarm everyone. Just what is the plan to care for the uninsured, why in heck isn't someone asking the blue dogs that question?

[Chaimirija]

50% of hospitals are in the red

[AnnfromCA]

We just don't get care, that's what.

In LA, they dump indigents on the street in front of the homeless shelter.

[Reaganwater]

Flapjack, I for one , would like to hear solutions that you support which would correct or improve the following : out of control costs , massive protective medicine , hospitals closing , millions uninsured or under insured , medical related bankruptcies , etc ....

And if you are really feeling agressive, please tell us why after over 50 years no comprehensive free-market plan has even been offered .

And please do not embarass yourself by mentioning medical savings accounts --which are as close to universal health coverage as Karl Rove was to Abraham Lincoln.

[Lyr]

Look at the HMO act. It created massive government subsidized incentives for the creation of HMO's over other methods of providing health care. Over the years starting in about 1943 the government has been taking actions that discourage individuals from getting thier own health care and instead encourages them to look to health insurance companies. We need to start repealing these bad laws that give special treatment to insurance companies, give individuals tax breaks for all out of pocket medical expenses (make them all 100% deductable, no stupid medical savings plans) And the AMA needs to be checked hard. They limit the number of med students and nurse practioners which all drives the cost of health care up.

[Reaganwater]

Interesting information . Thank you .

[ProudNeoCon]

Hmm... interesting idea.... It already exist in the alternative medicine space not covered by insurance. And you are correct the cost there generally much lower than in traditional medicine..­.

[Wiseup2Day]

Here is some simple math..not rocket science stuff..if we add just half of the 47 million uninsured , or 23.5 million, to the insured list, where are the additional doctors, nurses and hospital beds going to come from? It takes 12 years to becaome a doctor, 4 years to becaome an LPN..Do you really believe you won't be waiting 3-4 months for an appointmen­t..and say you have an early cancer that could of been detected, but now that you've waited 3 months..yo­u are not curable..t­oo late. Aside from the fact that the doctors will have to see more patients at a goveernment controlled rate..not so many people will pay the price for med school, only to make $200,000 a year, where now, they fall into the wealthy category and will be taxed up the kazoo..nev­ermind that all these wealthy people promoting this..will see a doctor any time they want. I think they could cut down costs by passing regulations to the health care industry..­study this..not rush anything thru..it can be done, but smartly. Look at what happened with the stimulous bill..alre­ady wrought with fraud and waste and only 6% is spent.

[lysistrata]

We can get medical personal from India and Cuba has a lot of doctors. But maybe we would have to get AMA permission.

[Larry Cohen]

For those that say we need universal health care, be careful what you wish for. I have lived with this since 1973, 21 years with the military and since with the VA/DOD. The VA health care is not as good as what I pay for with my pets, A matter of fact that is far superior. the DOD used to have Champus and now has tricare (which really means, Try as you might we don't care). So we have had socialized medicine in our country for a long time, also didn't Mr. Obama say "we will have the same health care choices as him" Well as they say, Say it aint so because congress and the senate are exempt from this socalled health care bill.

[Chaimirija]

Funny, my uncle is a Veteran and he loves the VA

[steamboat]

I've used the VA for 30+ years (VietNam vet)......­.and I can tell you, depends on which facility. There NOT equal.

[LeighAnnes]

Have you ever known anyone that had to declare bankruptcy or wipe out their 401K because they got cancer? I assure you, even "bad" "socialized" medicine is better than that. However, the world health organization rates nearly all the countries with "socialized" health care as better than ours. So, I don't think we'll get worse health care, despite individual stories. Besides, what makes you think private insurance is better? They make money by denying claims and there are many horror stories about that.

[flapjack]

The WHO is a big proponent of socialized medicine for political reasons. You have to look at the factors they used, not just the overall rating.

I have private health insurance -- as does 85% of the US population. I've never had a single problem with it and I don't know anyone that has.

[lysistrata]

While you were in the military you were free to purchase private insurance, why didn't you? The military I know like Tri Care, life ore prime. It beats privates any time. Tri Care Life alone beats Medicare Part D. Check it out.

[just saying]

I gotta agree. Years ago (under Clinton) Champus sucked. It was like a clinic in a 3rd world country waiting 4 hours for immunizations for your children. But after listening to their patients they improved 10-fold. They are now equal if not superior to outside care.

[nukemind]

You can blame the GOP (and folks like McCain) who have voted to CUT VA benefits. They want to choke VA health care so that you guys start thinking, "Gee, this system doesn't work. Thus, socialized medicine doesn't work. This is a false conclusion. For example, when I was a kid I had healthcare through DOD (my Dad worked as a civilian engineer for the DOD) and it was pretty good. Similarly, healthcare for the military and politicians is also quite good and is socialized medicine. Profit is the true foe of proper healthcare as insurers work to give as little care as possible to maximize profits. The GOP somewhat cleverly votes to cut funding for programs that work so that they can then claim that they are failing. And then they lie about how Canadians and Brits and others have horrible systems. First off, they spend half what we do and have 100% coverage. Surgeries and other procedures are based on a need basis and their average life spans are longer than ours and they have a much lower mortality rate as well. These are the key facts that people need to understand. Socialized medicine IS the solution.

[lysistrata]

Well, the Republicans, they did not care about the dilapidated, rundown Walter Reid out patient quarters. But they don't believe a government should govern.

[Chaimirija]

ahh, my uncle, a Veteran, loves the VA

[LeighAnnes]

My uncle, also a Vietnam Vet, does also.

[Ides]

So why are only some statistics given and others are replaced with "some" and "quite a few" and "many?"

And where's the question on support for a public option? Or are Americans too stupid to actually be listened to on this question?

[just saying]

Because using vague stats can be spun to support ANYTHING, that's why.

[LeighAnnes]

As opposed to you who have nothing to base your opinions on.